Beating the Infinite. Feel free to add.

[chu12ch]

Another thing i realized about the ics (after reading the above post) is, the ic's really are pretty much the same as before... Before i started wobbling, any grab i got with nana in the vicinity ended with death if they were at 100%, or if i can dair chaingrab them, and if neither of those were applicable, at least i could get approximately 50% with a dthrow, uair to bair (which set up for an edgeguard usually)...

Now that i've been trying to play without relying on it (wobbling), i realize that i play much smarter... My approaches are becoming more solid, getting used to keeping a combo alive until i land that grab at 90%, where i can usually land the ko shot; rather than just trying to get that grab as quick as possible to start wobbling... Im gonna keep practicing without wobbling, it seems to be making me better...

(but i still defend it in whether it should be banned or not...)

 

[BigRick]

^^Trudat.

Wobbles' KOs aren't 100% of the time Wobble KOs.

 

[tarheeljks]

@1048576: Do we know that the shine's offensive capabilities were unintended? The fact that Fox and Falco's shines send opponents in the opposite direction suggests the opposite. I agree that the wobble is a bug because I doubt the programmers intended to create move that as you said "immobilizes your opponent's character and kills them no matter what they do." However, I disagree w/the notion that the IC's need to become more of a tournament force for the bug to be considered "too much." I think that the ability to immobilize your opponent is too much, regardless of whether it guarantees victory or only yields a slight advantage.

 

[leonin]

Im thinking of a way to evade this WOBBLE while you are on it,i believe there MUST be a way to release from IC's grab while taking hits.
U could force nana to release of popo's grab using an INVERSE DI,i mean in the direction of naa's Ftilt,but i didnt tried it yet.

 

[tarheeljks]

in a different thread wobbles said that above 20% (i think) you can get out of it on our own. how wold you DI when you were being held in place by popo? also, sirlin's guide is fine and dandy, but i'm not arguing about it being used at the moment.

edit: basically, i don't consider it a big deal that people do it since it is a legal move, but i'd like to see it banned.

 

[leonin]

in a different thread wobbles said that above 20% (i think) you can get out of it on our own. how wold you DI when you were being held in place by popo? also, sirlin's guide is fine and dandy, but i'm not arguing about it being used at the moment.

Its not exactly DI,i believe if u tilt in the same direction of nana's Ftilt at the SAME TIME,this will make nana knock you off releasing the grab,but remember that i never tried it,because so few players of IC uses WOBBLING.

 

[tarheeljks]

the fact remains that wobbles said you can't get out of it and he is the authority on this subject.

 

[1048576]

I'm pretty sure that with the d-tilt (toebiter trap), which was the original "infinite," the opponent was allowed one frame to escape per tilt, and that is if it was executed perfectly. With the f-tilt infinite (Wobbling), the opponent has zero frames of escape, and the user has some leeway in executing the maneuver.

 

[chu12ch]

So, would this "toebiter trap" be better seeing as how it allows people to get out??? Because thats what i use, just in case I accidentally throw them...

 

[AzN_Lep]

I'm pretty sure you can't get out of either (d-tilt and f-tilt) People have jammed their controllers until they were blue in the face when I've used d-tilt and it holds them for as long as I feel like. Granted that I usually only hold until 160 or so, before I finish 'em off. But if you can't escape before then, does it really matter if you can escpae it at 400% or so?

 

[chu12ch]

what do you guys end ur infinites with... i've been using the dthrow u-smash, usually around 120% regardless of map (except dreamland)...

 

[1048576]

Azn-Lep: You do have one frame, so it is theoretically possible to escape d-tilt, although not really practical (who can hit 60 buttons per second?) Anyway, most players will allow some leeway with the desynching, so the opponent actually has 2 or three frames free of stun with which they can escape. Clutch: I usually end with a Nana d-smash coming right after the headbutt, at about the same time as her f-tilt would come out. It's the same way Wobbles does it, I think. D-throw to Up-Smash can be escaped with DI, although it would be funny trying to see someone survive at like 3xx%.

 

[Shai Hulud]

what do you guys end ur infinites with... i've been using the dthrow u-smash, usually around 120% regardless of map (except dreamland)...

I've been using dthrow => dsmash regardless of map. If I'm on a map with wide walls and a high ceiling like Dreamland I'll just wait until 180 - 220 depending on the character.

I've got a friend who beats me about 80% of the time when I use anyone but Ice Climbers. Now I'm not even that good with Ice Climbers, but when I use them and wobble, I start winning the majority. I don't think it's that unbeatable though. I think he's just not used to fighting wobbling Ice Climbers and hasn't adapted his strategy yet.

 

[Stryk9]

I've been using dthrow => dsmash regardless of map. If I'm on a map with wide walls and a high ceiling like Dreamland I'll just wait until 180 - 220 depending on the character.

I've got a friend who beats me about 80% of the time when I use anyone but Ice Climbers. Now I'm not even that good with Ice Climbers, but when I use them and wobble, I start winning the majority. I don't think it's that unbeatable though. I think he's just not used to fighting wobbling Ice Climbers and hasn't adapted his strategy yet.

of course its not unbeatable, it just -as you said- makes you 80% + more likely to win

 

[greenblob]

Well, I don't think the DK infinite (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MgPDFsiQODM) is banned in SSB... if that's of any help.

 

[Nintendude]

That's not an infinite combo on all characters, and I'm not even sure if it's even a true infinite. There could be a small window to escape that's so hard that people don't usually break free. Jigglypuff can escape by just using Rest I think, and Mario / Samus /DK / Luigi can up-B out of it with ease.

 

[1048576]

Looks like many tourneys are banning the infinite anyway, which is a good thing, in my opinion. It is beatable, but it is also stupidly cheap and pretty much forces a counterpick from the opponent, which no other character has done before. Anyway, does anybody know how these tournaments that ban the infinite put this into practice? Like how many tilts does Nana get per grab, how much percent can you get before you throw, what constitutes an "infinite?"

 

[KevinM]

Dude it really is easy to beat the infinite anyways..

1. Get grabbed and they begin the infinite
2. Unplug their controller
3. yell Mindgames
4. Laugh

haha no seriously though wobbling should not be banned and i love the technique

 

[chu12ch]

well, i've been playing recently without it... and now i dont really care if its banned or not...

 

[Hozart]

Looks like many tourneys are banning the infinite anyway, which is a good thing, in my opinion. It is beatable, but it is also stupidly cheap and pretty much forces a counterpick from the opponent, which no other character has done before. Anyway, does anybody know how these tournaments that ban the infinite put this into practice? Like how many tilts does Nana get per grab, how much percent can you get before you throw, what constitutes an "infinite?"

That's a good question. Some players (maybe even myself if someone counterpicks me with Peach or some other "playing to win" tactic) could sneak in maybe just that little bit extra damage to make a smash-grab a kill-grab. Should I be banned for doing like 3 tilts FTW?

For the most part, I don't care if it's banned or not. Many players in Florida actually encourage me to use it. I will just use it as a training tool to teach people how to avoid grabs (camp the platforms!), or just for fun.

Oh well, back to learning complex desynching combinations. =)

More tactics and tricks should be banned.

 

[1048576]

Yeah, I play in Florida, and I get cursed at when I use it. Meh. I don't think anything else (even the shine) breaks the game as much as that infinite did. Therefore, nothing else should be banned that isn't already (items, etc...) I can't wait for Wobbles to beat Forward without infiniting. That would be pretty incredible.

Edit: Assuming most major tourneys adopt some kind of infinite restriction policy

 

[Wobbles]

I can't wait for Wobbles to beat Forward without infiniting. That would be pretty incredible.

Friendlies don't count? :D

Plus it'd be stupidly hard to beat him now, he's played practically everybody in the country by this point and I'm just chilling in Texas.

 

[budahboi]

the best way to beat the infinite, after you have been grabbed:

1. pause the game.

2. when they are like 'wtf?' unpause, wiggle out, and escape.

 

[Red Exodus]

It's like the guys said last year, there are worst things. At least you can prevent the infinite, in some games there's nothing you can do to get around it, in Smash you have more choices. I suggest people learn to use them.

 

[KevinM]

Friendlies don't count? :D

Plus it'd be stupidly hard to beat him now, he's played practically everybody in the country by this point and I'm just chilling in Texas.

Least your chilling in Texas wobbles.. i'm stuck in Rhode Island.. we've got about as many people as we've got miles... and we're the smallest state in the country

 

[Lixivium]

Friendlies don't count? :D

Plus it'd be stupidly hard to beat him now, he's played practically everybody in the country by this point and I'm just chilling in Texas.

Well, the only other notable Ice Climbers' he's come across would be Trail, who plays a rather different style than you do. If anything it might throw off his game against yours.