Beating a pro Mk :)

[Gnes]

So at the last HOBO i had the pleasure to friendly Dojo a couple of matches with my kirby. I think i was able to find out a good amount of info about the matchup. So lets talk.

1. Kirby has absolutely no spacing advantage over MK. Kirby's bair is outranged by Mk's fair. MK's f-tilt is of course his fast attack(i think like 2 frames) and it will outrange kirbys tilts on the ground. If the spacing battle wasn't hard enough...each of kirby's typical approaches such as bair and fair can be countered with OOS shuttle loop(this is annoying)

2. I dont know if anyone tried this but i assumed since i did this on one MK multiple times in teams(Lee Martin) it was fool proof. Dair apparently doesnt go through shuttle loop at all. Kirby just ends up flying off the screen and ready to get *****. So sad. I would think of risking stone but what would happen if u miss . Also Bair can be cancelled by the Shuttle loops glide attack and then MK has a free opening to do whatever they choose(nair, dair, shuttle again...whatever)

3. F-smash goes through tornado*YES!!!* Ive done this multiple times so now when we play he hardly ever uses tornado. This of course happens on grounded or nearly grounded tornados. For aerial tornadoes a quick double jump back to hammer shatters the tornado. A perfectly spaced dair from above breaks the tornado from above breaks it to.

4. Recovering is ****ing hard!!! A good meta can take away any characters options by putting them in the air. This is exactly what happened everytime i was off stage. Kirby moves aerial movement is way to slow in comparison to meta which can lead to even kirby being gimped.

Hmm...i dont remember much of anything else that caught my attention. Meta's invincibility frames make him a huge problem. Long story short i experimented the first match and got 2-stocked via gimp and the second game i got 1-stocked simply by me playing super-patient. Ugh..meta a pain. Thoughts???

 

[T-nuts]

about #1...fsmash actually has a range advantage against MK, but if it gets shielded, shuttle looped, or even if an MK times a tilt just right, enjoy failing on your attack. still, it CAN be useful from distance in the match if you can predict a move.

shuttle loop is, super gay. my friends mk doesnt even do it out of shield, he just straight up beats your attack with it and therefore never has to shield, which i guess is less safe but it avoids the shield pushback your attack would give. the attack just goes through freaking everything so he uses it like a marth would use counter or something; except its a kill move and if MK wrongly predicts you he still wont get punished.

And as for 2...
yea, never use dair against shuttle loop. and you were right to think you should never use stone either. careful airdodging is your best bet i think.

you do have to be really patient.

all my experience is based off of playing my friend's MK offline (and a few good online MK's but eh) and while he hasnt made a name for himself like dojo, i can tell he is extremely good.

Actually, he and I might be going to our first offline tourney this saturday.

 

[Cherry64]

Good luck with the tourny. Sorry for hijacking this thread lol the name caught my eye. I effing HATE metaknight :\ if he wans't cheap enough already they gave him shuttle loop. he's faster than marth his air game pretty much owns everyones, as seen here by kirby losing in the air.

 

[SmileyStation]

So at the last HOBO i had the pleasure to friendly Dojo a couple of matches with my kirby. I think i was able to find out a good amount of info about the matchup. So lets talk.

1. Kirby has absolutely no spacing advantage over MK. Kirby's bair is outranged by Mk's fair. MK's f-tilt is of course his fast attack(i think like 2 frames) and it will outrange kirbys tilts on the ground. If the spacing battle wasn't hard enough...each of kirby's typical approaches such as bair and fair can be countered with OOS shuttle loop(this is annoying)

2. I dont know if anyone tried this but i assumed since i did this on one MK multiple times in teams(Lee Martin) it was fool proof. Dair apparently doesnt go through shuttle loop at all. Kirby just ends up flying off the screen and ready to get *****. So sad. I would think of risking stone but what would happen if u miss . Also Bair can be cancelled by the Shuttle loops glide attack and then MK has a free opening to do whatever they choose(nair, dair, shuttle again...whatever)

3. F-smash goes through tornado*YES!!!* Ive done this multiple times so now when we play he hardly ever uses tornado. This of course happens on grounded or nearly grounded tornados. For aerial tornadoes a quick double jump back to hammer shatters the tornado. A perfectly spaced dair from above breaks the tornado from above breaks it to.

4. Recovering is ****ing hard!!! A good meta can take away any characters options by putting them in the air. This is exactly what happened everytime i was off stage. Kirby moves aerial movement is way to slow in comparison to meta which can lead to even kirby being gimped.

Hmm...i dont remember much of anything else that caught my attention. Meta's invincibility frames make him a huge problem. Long story short i experimented the first match and got 2-stocked via gimp and the second game i got 1-stocked simply by me playing super-patient. Ugh..meta a pain. Thoughts???

I take it your going to Final Smash 5 too? Also, eat that **** tornado xD

 

[Asdioh]

1. Kirby has absolutely no spacing advantage over MK. Kirby's bair is outranged by Mk's fair. MK's f-tilt is of course his fast attack(i think like 2 frames) and it will outrange kirbys tilts on the ground. If the spacing battle wasn't hard enough...each of kirby's typical approaches such as bair and fair can be countered with OOS shuttle loop(this is annoying)

Kirby lands his Vulcan Jabs: once MK gets out of range of the jabs, he can Ftilt you before you can cancel your jabs and shield.

So Kirby's fastest attack gets punished for landing in this matchup. <3 balance

Grounded Shuttle Loop has invincibility frames...this might have been said already, I forgot.

2. I dont know if anyone tried this but i assumed since i did this on one MK multiple times in teams(Lee Martin) it was fool proof. Dair apparently doesnt go through shuttle loop at all. Kirby just ends up flying off the screen and ready to get *****. So sad. I would think of risking stone but what would happen if u miss . Also Bair can be cancelled by the Shuttle loops glide attack and then MK has a free opening to do whatever they choose(nair, dair, shuttle again...whatever)

Bair cancelling Shuttle Loop's Glide Attack....MK can attack again after this? I thought he just goes into "free fall" animation, I mean, assuming he does the glide attack in the air, and not directly above the ground.

I've hit MK out of the very beginning of Shuttle Loop with Bair before...it's in my Brinstar video. Not very practical though, since it was an aerial Shuttle Loop and timing for this is ridiculous.

3. F-smash goes through tornado*YES!!!* Ive done this multiple times so now when we play he hardly ever uses tornado. This of course happens on grounded or nearly grounded tornados. For aerial tornadoes a quick double jump back to hammer shatters the tornado. A perfectly spaced dair from above breaks the tornado from above breaks it to.

Everyone should know that by now. MK's Tornado isn't a real problem on the ground (unless it's wifi) because Fsmash simply beats it. I've beaten it with Upsmash and I think Dsmash too, but Fsmash is by far the easiest.

As for Aerial Tornados...I can. not. DI out of them. Even when I spam up on the C-stick and control stick, I am stuck, and when I DO get out, I'm too far away to punish. MK, on the other hand, gets out of Kirbynado immediately and Dairs me to break it. Wtf?

How do YOU get out of Tornado to punish with Hammer? Keep in mind that hammer requires incredibly spacing due to the slow startup, and he can probably just run into you while using Tornado to cancel it.

Also, I've beaten Tornado with Nair before. lol >_>

You know what's ********? I was just thinking about how I like to attack from below ledges on Brinstar by using Uair... there have been times where I've hit the very bottom of Mach Tornado with the very tip of Kirby's foot in uair, and it sucks me into the tornado and does damage. Fraejsdiofjiojiozj

4. Recovering is ****ing hard!!! A good meta can take away any characters options by putting them in the air. This is exactly what happened everytime i was off stage. Kirby moves aerial movement is way to slow in comparison to meta which can lead to even kirby being gimped.

Yeah...if you're below him, you better be able to mindgame your way up or you are absolutely dead.

This is a good way to Kirbycide though, if you're ahead in stocks or behind in percentage. MK will almost always chase you offstage so just predict it and Inhale him to your dooms.

I like to spam Side B while recovering too, MKs like to run into it a lot.

Long story short i experimented the first match and got 2-stocked via gimp and the second game i got 1-stocked simply by me playing super-patient. Ugh..meta a pain. Thoughts???

Yeah, the first time I played Mero15's MK was in a ladder match...he 3-stocked me. I was like "wow that must have been a fluke" so I played some friendlies with him afterwards. No more 3-stocks, but I still lost every game but one. The people who say MK doesn't totally beat Kirby really just don't know what they're talking about :/




Basically the only time Kirby will beat Meta Knight is when:
-Kirby attacks
-MK doesn't attack at the same time or earlier, or shield.

It's as simple as that. Kirby has a somewhat better grab game, so I guess you can try to abuse that.

Comboing MK usually leads into you getting hit...kind of like how Luigi can escape combos with Nair, or Marth can Dolphin Slash. MK can use [insert move here] and pwn you.

Man, when I saw this thread title I thought you beat a pro MK :[

 

[Gnes]

Kirby lands his Vulcan Jabs: once MK gets out of range of the jabs, he can Ftilt you before you can cancel your jabs and shield.

So Kirby's fastest attack gets punished for landing in this matchup. <3 balance

Grounded Shuttle Loop has invincibility frames...this might have been said already, I forgot.

Bair cancelling Shuttle Loop's Glide Attack....MK can attack again after this? I thought he just goes into "free fall" animation, I mean, assuming he does the glide attack in the air, and not directly above the ground.

I've hit MK out of the very beginning of Shuttle Loop with Bair before...it's in my Brinstar video. Not very practical though, since it was an aerial Shuttle Loop and timing for this is ridiculous.

Everyone should know that by now. MK's Tornado isn't a real problem on the ground (unless it's wifi) because Fsmash simply beats it. I've beaten it with Upsmash and I think Dsmash too, but Fsmash is by far the easiest.

As for Aerial Tornados...I can. not. DI out of them. Even when I spam up on the C-stick and control stick, I am stuck, and when I DO get out, I'm too far away to punish. MK, on the other hand, gets out of Kirbynado immediately and Dairs me to break it. Wtf?

How do YOU get out of Tornado to punish with Hammer? Keep in mind that hammer requires incredibly spacing due to the slow startup, and he can probably just run into you while using Tornado to cancel it.

Man, when I saw this thread title I thought you beat a pro MK :[

On the tornado question if i DI out of the tornado i usually footstool the mk...just happens randomly i guess tornado seems pretty useless to me unless hes recovering. I hammer the MK if i see the start up and am reasonable distance away and its a aerial tornado.


Meta's frame speed advantage and invincibility makes me vomit

For a cp against meta i dont like brinstar considering if meta goes under the stage it puts u in a bad position...if there tornado spamming it is pretty excellent though and recovering there is alot better.

I havent beaten a pro meta in tourney before considering most of the time when we play they realize if the play defensively all of kirby's options are gone.

mindgames are useless against raw character ability it seems

 

[Cherry64]

[qoute]It's as simple as that. Kirby has a somewhat better grab game, so I guess you can try to abuse that.

Comboing MK usually leads into you getting hit...kind of like how Luigi can escape combos with Nair, or Marth can Dolphin Slash. MK can use [insert move here] and pwn you.

Man, when I saw this thread title I thought you beat a pro MK :[
[/qoute]
Grab game can only go on for so long before he figures you out and {insert move here} pwns you. meta versus kirby is a redicules amtchup for kirby I've tried it it's ********. cant' even hide in your rock cause his throws are death, and when he's not throwing he's spammin jump fair jump fair jump fair wel you guys dont' have to worry about that cause kriby can float away or up-b. i think it cancels his fair not sure though.

 

[fromundaman]

cant' even hide in your rock cause his throws are death

Why the hell would ANY Kirby 'hide in their rock' against ANYONE?!?

 

[Asdioh]

Why the hell would ANY Kirby 'hide in their rock' against ANYONE?!?

Because it's @#$%ing pro. Try spamming Down B and then not transforming back... people try to predict you turning back into regular Kirby and they attack, and they hit AN INVINCIBLE ROCK AND BREAK THEIR SWORDS.

 

[feardragon64]

Because it's @#$%ing pro. Try spamming Down B and then not transforming back... people try to predict you turning back into regular Kirby and they attack, and they hit AN INVINCIBLE ROCK AND BREAK THEIR SWORDS.

And then MK up+b's and kills you because his attacks have no lag T_T

For the recovering issue, I say get his cap if you can. Inhale + spit is fairly useless in this match-up. Even if your tornado isn't as awesome as his wh0renado, it makes recovering a bit easier. Also, I believe it can clank with his if you don't want to fsmash for some reason(move decay?)

I think it's pretty much a give though that Kirby is much better on the defensive for this match though. Approaches with bair, fair, dair, etc. get owned by ftilt and usmash/utilt. Any ground approaches get owned by dtilt.

God I hate that ftilt.

 

[fromundaman]

Because it's @#$%ing pro. Try spamming Down B and then not transforming back... people try to predict you turning back into regular Kirby and they attack, and they hit AN INVINCIBLE ROCK AND BREAK THEIR SWORDS.

Haha! I can't stop laughing at that! Sigged!

 

[T-nuts]

Bair cancelling Shuttle Loop's Glide Attack....MK can attack again after this? I thought he just goes into "free fall" animation, I mean, assuming he does the glide attack in the air, and not directly above the ground.

yes. bair is often a good move vs gliding MK.

 

[Cherry64]

I don't play Kirby my friend does he laughed at me too . that's what I'd do to him which is prolly why I don't play kirby

 

[rgrwilco]

honest to truth my best freind has the most ****ing annoying MK ever. i tried to make a thread were i broke mah controller but hylian ended up locking it but yeah, thats how MK can sometimes get on my nerves,anyways my best freind, he plays a onslaught style metaknight meaning theres never any room to breathe AT ALL, BUT ive came up with ways to pretty get out of most of meta knights moves.

For Mach nado. ive always DI up then air dogde under MK then PUNISH ! zelda can also do it too.

when you make the MK PLAYER mad then you got game smack talk all MK players, when you play get into thier heads and you got a good advantage =) (sometimess hah)

since i play with DDD too slow the pace down inhale the asshat and either get his nado or extra 10% to set yourself up for other moves

when im playing fast style i always let him attack first power shield grab and combo BUT you miust think "OMG after the grab + uair he can fly away " use it to your advantage you KNOW hes gonna fly backwards AWAY from you so i just mini up or full just Fair him and hammer into a combo usually will catch them by surprise

drills he doesnt use much but when he does its predictabile block, wait grab and you got some annoying grab games on him

F air of MK prolly is the most annoying thing ever, usually they will pull back after mini jump fair they lag a tiny bit so i just mini jump taught forward let them hit first then use my fair triple kick is very effective then the oh so single hit back air use back air when you know its gona hit

like asidoh said mad mind games if you get caught under mk OR just try for the up + b spike for style. if you know your dieing, might as well die in style .

and the dread ful down ****ing c stick OR the best spammable move EVER sigh... what to do with this l....
truth be told i find fighting MK in the Air to be ****ing so fun and well FUN. wiether he mach nados you, you can just air dodge and punish like i do, but one might think "OMGGGGZZZ your just making MK save up his finishing movezzz"

well by the time your on the floor with high percent whats mk most likely to spam ~TWICE~ f smash or down smash twice to spot dogde to down smash by that time YOU have your friend forward smash to own his ***. so fight the knight in the air its fun . =)

last but not least id say sometimes if hes using shuttle loop i feel like you got the advantage. WHY?? you ask. well to me its the last weapon and recovery. everyone knows its REALLY gay when you get hit by it but what i love doing is float , jump fly VERY HIGHHH then rock =) i know you might think its a once in a while move its small chance of hitting BUT your doing one way DOWN and invilble meta knight is going back onto the stage left or right your that wall that keeps sperm from entering into the egg, your the mother hen that would let your girlfreinds hook up with another guy and when you land it OHHH it feels good no to have a kid or stds, and you know what if he cancels he falls to his death or he takes teh 23% dmg, KIRBS on the other hand is safe from one more gimp

**** i wrote lots i hope this helps to me, snake vs kirb is much harder or less fun so i rather face MK =) they are funner to beat =)

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'm sorry but who exactly didn't know all of this? F Smash is like the one thing Kirby has to beat MK's moves with. Not a new discovery. =/

 

[Cherry64]

love how you used kirby as a condom, Verrry classy.

 

[Asdioh]

love how you used kirby as a condom, Verrry classy.

That's what you got from that? man his post confused me so much

 

[rgrwilco]

I'm sorry but who exactly didn't know all of this? F Smash is like the one thing Kirby has to beat MK's moves with. Not a new discovery. =/

no ****, but are YOU gonna just sit and spam f smash all day long??? and plus i said fight him in the air and then use it when you can.



sorry for making you confused asdioh =) haha, sorry everyone, maybe i will use them "PUNCUATION",

 

[t!MmY]

The people who say MK doesn't totally beat Kirby really just don't know what they're talking about :/

MK doesn't totally beat Kirby.

 

[l SOUP l]

MK doesn't totally beat Kirby.

Enlighten me.

 

[rgrwilco]

Enlighten me.

watch chudat vs chillin

 

[l SOUP l]

I did, Chillin won the set.

 

[A1lion835]

watch chudat vs chillin

Let's rephrase the question.

How can Kirby beat MK if the Kirby isn't chudat?

 

[Falconv1.0]

no ****, but are YOU gonna just sit and spam f smash all day long??? and plus i said fight him in the air and then use it when you can.

You missed the ****ing point. The topic has covered nothing new, and will never produce anything new, thus it is pointless. And you can just say GG if you fight MK in the air because MK ****ING WINS NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE.

 

[Asdioh]

MK doesn't totally beat Kirby.

MK totally beats Kirby.

the only definite advantage Kirby has over MK is his awesome Fsmash, which is still ridiculously punishable when shielded (unlike MK's dsmash)

I guess Kirby is heavier...? But MK can fastfall earlier due to how fast Uair is when DI-ing after getting hit.

Do you know something we don't? Does MK have some weakness Kirby can take advantage of? I know that it's possible to win the matchup, but on paper, it just feels like MK has every advantage. If you fight an extremely good MK who knows all about Kirby, I don't see what you could do.

On the other hand, I know pretty much everything I need to know about MK after playing against him so much, yet I still can't find ways to get around it and counter it. -_-

I did, Chillin won the set.

Yup.

Wait, SOUP? o_O what are you doing here

Let's rephrase the question.

How can Kirby beat MK if the Kirby isn't chudat?

It doesn't really matter you see, Chudat loses to MKs too obviously he wins sometimes...I wish we could get his advice on the matchup.

I can assure you that if I had the opportunity for as much tourney experience as him (lol Indiana) I would help others... I don't see why he ignores this forum completely..

Maybe he hates the MK matchup as much as us, or more :O

 

[MK26]

We should spam chu's inbox and make him create one of those "ask me stuff about stuff and i'll give you the answer" threads

Seconded.

EDIT: whoops, wrong thread

 

[T-nuts]

MK has the advantage but its only like 55:45. it might seem worse online though. offline you can do things like punish every missed dsmash, and you sure as hell cant online.

 

[~Gonzo~]

The matchup is not as bad as u think,

first off, if u watch MKs Fair its hitbox doesn't last long for each stroke, there is time between each swing in which the hitbox is not there, with this info in mind never try and go head to to head spacing. Instead try and get above or below the Fair and use a rising Bair or i fur above use a Fast-falled (FF) bair

MKs Bup: it is a pretty **** move, however u and MK can trade damage with this. Many people Bair when they hear the sound for shuttle loop. Instead you should use ur Bair just b4 shuttle loop so the hit box is fully extended. This will cause the both of you to get hit. Also if u ever slo-mo MK's shuttle loop u'll something very interesting. Its not really a loop. More like an elongated oval. More importantly is MKs sword position during the full loop. The sword location is the location of the hitbox. So if u want to Dair Mks shuttle loop, u have to be a bit behind where MKs starts the shuttle loop. Thats where his sword is pointing away from him towards the center of the loop meaning no hitbox for Kirby to get hit by.

Recovering is not as difficult as u think. Always make sure to DI up no matter what. It will save u later. Also when ur recovering what do u get hit by most? Nair, Dair, Bair, Uair, or Fair? i prefer to get hit by Fair and Bair cuz i can DI up to keep from being killed, Dair and Nair are kill moves. when first recovering dont jump, instead hammer and conserve ur jumps for later (trust u'll need them.) When u c ur opponent coming to aerial u jump in place or backwards, they will be always expecting u to b jumping forward, this will allow u to get over MK, from there u can try and double suicide with a Dair, or continue jumping up to the stage, however don't aim for the edge b/c MK will Bup u back out and u'll have waisted precious jumps and take unnecessary damage, instead keep going straight up to avoid a Bup. Remember better to be Uair'd than Bup'd so don't try to always avoid the Uair, u can use it to get higher. Also a very good maneuver i use every know and then is a jumping air dodge. it keeps u in place while being invincible. U can also use it move forward safely. Once ur up high enough u can easily find a way to get on the stage. This is where that FF Bair is so useful, u can fastfall while bairing to protect urself. i also find MK's copy to incredibly useful against aggressive MKs b/c it disrupts their play a lot. Against more reserved MKs who space carefully u have to get grabs, and use running A every now and then to disrupt their spacing, its an unexpected move with a fairly decent hitbox and knockback.

Thats my take on MK anyway GL

 

[Cherry64]

That's what you got from that? man his post confused me so much

dude read the bottom, he clearly says that kirbys wall of aerials protects like a wall blocking sperm from reaching the egg? i think he was tripping out...

and no offence and I totally dont' play kirby but this seems utterly impossible. Basically all of meta's amtchups are within like 10 points of each other (55:45) but that's on paper. who's good enough to get thsoe punches in when his hitbox is gone? if anyone is speak up and post some vids I wanna see metaknight get pwned harder than he ever knew possible... but tis' metaknight so I doubt my wish will be relived.

p.s. samus fighting MK is the biggest failtrain adventure ever. marth does decent against him fi you time stuff properly. annd that was me telling you that I can't beat one so please do it for me :D

 

[rgrwilco]

sigh...

in the end, i guess the condom broke =(

but there so many take ups on it. if you beat a Mk hes not pro enough, if you lose to mk its "typical" he should win.

but everyone here is trying to evolve their game vs metaknight, weither you play in tourneys or play your friends who use metaknight its still satisfying to beat there ***** down even if you might lose

but you cant be mr.negative and be like "OMGZZ! its hopeless mk is 1337 im gonna sell my wii" try everything, i mean EVERYTHING, fight him under the stage, fight him in the air, fight him off screen,fight him in a Custom stage box,hell even fight him on banned stagesor 2 v 1 OR 3 v 1, in the end, your doing crazier+ funner **** then a typical metaknight does, and plus if you land a sick kill, props, and if you die you can always blame it on lag if online, if offline blame it on sakurai

but for me im still gonna lay a beat down on a mk weither they spam their life away or not =) so what are we all gonna do :O

i say, get another thicker condom, not them cheap ultra thin ones, and try try again

=\

 

[Asdioh]

and no offence and I totally dont' play kirby but this seems utterly impossible. Basically all of meta's amtchups are within like 10 points of each other (55:45) but that's on paper. who's good enough to get thsoe punches in when his hitbox is gone? if anyone is speak up and post some vids I wanna see metaknight get pwned harder than he ever knew possible... but tis' metaknight so I doubt my wish will be relived.

Watch Chudat pwn Inui.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNe7NOnufps

But don't let this video make you too happy: the only reason it was such ownage is because...

watch the MK. See how much he shields/dodges when he could be spamming MK's fast, high-priority attacks? That's why he lost. Like I said earlier, the only time you're going to hit MK is when he's not attacking.

He also glides too much and gets owned for it, lol



edit: rgrwilco didn't you break your TV because of MK? >_______>

 

[rgrwilco]

haha not tv controller gotta get a new wiimote my nunchuk is in ok condition,

OH OH and i finally know why i was so mad

........................................................................................................

i was hungry d=]

losing and hunger doesnt not mix well with me, hah

 

[Falconv1.0]

I seriously question wtf Inui was doing there. Way too much side dodge spam.

 

[Asdioh]

I seriously question wtf Inui was doing there. Way too much side dodge spam.

Exactly my point...MK can do well without pressing the shield button all game.

Well, maybe not ALL game, but he needs it less than others because of how fast his attacks come out, and their priority.

and invincibility. lol.

 

[Cherry64]

Watch Chudat pwn Inui.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNe7NOnufps

But don't let this video make you too happy: the only reason it was such ownage is because...

watch the MK. See how much he shields/dodges when he could be spamming MK's fast, high-priority attacks? That's why he lost. Like I said earlier, the only time you're going to hit MK is when he's not attacking.

He also glides too much and gets owned for it, lol



edit: rgrwilco didn't you break your TV because of MK? >_______>

I play pit and gliding is a last resort wand when I do it to recover I shoot down then shoot up and land on the stage. safest I think to do it.

p.s. vdeo is sweet

 

[rgrwilco]

i thought inui was trying to be aggressive and go for the kill but chudat is 1337 and fsmash for the win, but your right i don t like to use up b, unless its a for sure kill or ill just glide, but pit gets own when he glides and has no more jumps, unlike metaknight

 

[fromundaman]

You know, I was playing this matchup quite a bit yesterday (My friend who played ROB in the other videos picked up MK and has now decided to main him, and with good reason! Meh, played a few ****tier ones too, but those don't count.), and it's really not as bad as I thought it was.

As Gonzo mentioned, the Fair and Bair don't have a constant hitbox, and with good timing, I was able to Bair in between the hits almost constantly.

Bair beats out the tornado provided you aim it at the top of MK's body, or go higher and FF it (since it has a bigger range than the tornado apparently. Doesn't work on the bottom of him though.).

Dair beats shuttle loop. BF is now the starter stage I prefer playing MK on just because it's so easy to bait SLs there. Get above MK and in his SL trajectory (but far enough upwards so that he won't have invulnerability frames anymore.) and start a Dair. That is far too tempting for any MK not knowing what'll happen to pass up, and since the Dair startup animation isn't so obvious, they're bound to SL, which leads to drill kick into the stage, which leads to Ftilt/Fsmash. If it's offstage it's even better. Sure, MK can recover, but if he expended too many jumps already, he'll have to do a predictable SL again, which means you can rock edgeguard (Dair rarely tends to hit him when he's going for the edge because of his ability to SL up against the side of the stage, or maybe that's just my own inability... *shrugs*)

Shieldgrab a LOT. Seriously, Bair and shieldgrabs are my two most useful tools here. Yeah, Ftilt beats Bair, but it doesn't beat a grab, and when you start doing both, MK may not know what's coming, and take to the air, at which point you try to avoid Dairs and hit through Fairs/Bairs. When Dthrowing, be careful because MK can Dair you at low percents.

Never get under MK, EVER!

Oh, and fresh Fsmash is great. As soon as those numbers start turning red, MK has to be very, very careful.

Well, it's by no means a great matchup, but it does appear to be a bit better than I thought it was. Hell, my Kirby does better vs MK right now than my MK does, so meh.

 

[Asdioh]

Bair beats out the tornado provided you aim it at the top of MK's body, or go higher and FF it (since it has a bigger range than the tornado apparently. Doesn't work on the bottom of him though.).

Why can't I do this ;_;

oh that's right... wifi. >_>

 

[T-nuts]

Dair beats shuttle loop. BF is now the starter stage I prefer playing MK on just because it's so easy to bait SLs there. Get above MK and in his SL trajectory (but far enough upwards so that he won't have invulnerability frames anymore.) and start a Dair. That is far too tempting for any MK not knowing what'll happen to pass up, and since the Dair startup animation isn't so obvious, they're bound to SL, which leads to drill kick into the stage, which leads to Ftilt/Fsmash. If it's offstage it's even better. Sure, MK can recover, but if he expended too many jumps already, he'll have to do a predictable SL again, which means you can rock edgeguard (Dair rarely tends to hit him when he's going for the edge because of his ability to SL up against the side of the stage, or maybe that's just my own inability... *shrugs*)

Shieldgrab a LOT. Seriously, Bair and shieldgrabs are my two most useful tools here. Yeah, Ftilt beats Bair, but it doesn't beat a grab, and when you start doing both, MK may not know what's coming, and take to the air, at which point you try to avoid Dairs and hit through Fairs/Bairs. When Dthrowing, be careful because MK can Dair you at low percents.

Pretty sure Dair only beats shuttle loop if you hit a certain part of MK's animation. I feel like if MK positions himself correctly you should both hit each other, which is really a victory for MK unless you get a spike out of it.

Also rock on a recovering MK is very good (as it is against most opponents) but keep in mind MK can use a lot more than shuttle loop to recover; all 4 of his B moves can do it.

Finally, the fact that you said bair is one of your best tools, leads me to believe that this MK does not use grounded shuttle loops. If he does, kirby cannot approach with bair or you will lose every time. shuttle loop's initial hit absolutley shuts down bair. and yea, shuttle loop beats shieldgrab too because MK is in the air when the attack ends.

bair is still useful in some situations though, just not really as an approach.

 

[Cherry64]

i thought inui was trying to be aggressive and go for the kill but chudat is 1337 and fsmash for the win, but your right i don t like to use up b, unless its a for sure kill or ill just glide, but pit gets own when he glides and has no more jumps, unlike metaknight

Metaknight has jumps after his up B? did not know that :S nah if you pull back while gliding you will get out of the glide and you can jump if you have any left, but your right it's majorly punishable. as you get out of the glide you stop and cna't do anything for like 3 frames. That's why you hit a and watch them die and if you miss wiht that good luck buddy