BC plays MELEE - no Brawl allowed - May 15/16, 2010 - Burnaby+Vancouver, BC, Canada

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

well, they way i see it is.
if a better player is playing someone newer, or not as good and they DO see an opportunity to give advice, like if they see soemthing the person could be doing or somthing like that, and they dont tell them thats dumb and your a ***** LOL, but thats only if you see some sort of advice to give. And for me, its true, i do tend to play with the better ppl most the time.

so the only time i really do play with 'noobs' are in a brackets, but with bot20 thats never gnna happen.
and just because your playing with a noob, doesn't necessarily mean theres always advice for you to give,

honestly, i think the best way for noobs to get better, is to enter tourneys, to play with the better player, and to lose. Its their choice how they wanna pick themselves up.

Yah, alot of newer players just get discouraged and rage and Q_Q. Dieslow and Diakanos are great examples of "noobs" that went about improving the RIGHT way. Same with John.

 

[FalseFalco]

wtf is bot20

is it like BO10

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

lmao, it's basically a side event for noobs so they can have a tournament amongst themselves.

 

[FalseFalco]

wat

that's like choosing to play in tier 2 hockey when you make tier 1

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

my suggestion for Bot 20 side event is make it a BC only on the extra time somewhere nearing the end of the tourny so all the other main **** is finished where most people are going home and those who want to participate the bot 20 BC only can stay

 

[Deap]

alot of people who aren't noobs play in bot20...

like me LOL

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I know I'm not bottom 20 (not top 10 or anything like that, but I know I'm not bottom 20), but if it did happen, I'd probably enter with Pichu to even it out. Any chance to play as Pichu in a tournament match, I'll jump on the opportunity right away

 

[Sion]

rob, you've actually got a lot of good points as a smasher. it's just that you use low tiers and as a result you have to try a lot harder.nonetheless you're very good!

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I just find the bottom tier characters fun to play

But yeah, my best characters in all 3 games are low tier.
64, probably Puff (low)
Melee, ... GaW? (low)
Brawl, GaW (not MK, so low tier lol)
Brawl+, Mudkip (H4X tier)

 

[Yakal]

rob is definitely bot20

just sayin' cuz if you're not bot20 then neither are about half the participants in bot20 at the tourney 2 days ago

 

[unityole]

Yah, alot of newer players just get discouraged and rage and Q_Q. Dieslow and Diakanos are great examples of "noobs" that went about improving the RIGHT way. Same with John.

thats not the case adam, they have been playing forever really compare to the newbies. the only person really applies to your example here would be sion, but even so he played since SFU2 and he told me he basically quit cause everyone was too good. just so happen he start the game again and improved much faster now.

THIS
Also, Bot20 players seem to have no motivation and/or desire to leave Bot20.

apparently this is not the case cause kaelen and a couple of others are obviously trying to improve.

I dont think there is anything wrong with having some bot20 tournaments, but dont the "New" players want a chance to meet/play some of the best smashers from OoS too? is it not worth 10 bucks to get your *** handed to you and then get a chance to talk with some great players.

if only every new player would do just that.. but really now, a pro vs a noobie, hard for the newbie to improve. where as newbie vs newbie and playing competitively at their own level, they get chance to do stuff, instead of getting 4 stocked.

if they really wanted to get better they would ask players like sion eric or tony, and then best the other newbs next time in a tournament.

 

[Yakal]

guys here's what we do

we treat those who are in bot20 like **** and then say "we only respect those in the real singles bracket"
lmfao

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Bot 20 just isn't worth it if we don't have enough T.V's, why sacrifice other events for people who don't want to play in tournaments just cause they lose. It's fun + you improve under pressure.

When eric hosted tournaments in 06/07 all us noobs entered $10 fee and got ***** by adam/eric/tiep/ryan for a while lol

 

[Dynamism?]

Now you **** them ^

Beginners just gotta step it up.

NOOBS! YOU GOT THIS!

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

getting owned by pros don't make me improve one bit, the game just gets boring as **** that way and i lose all motivation to play, if people are worried that bot 20 might affect melee singles # of pple then make it happen when all the main **** are done

 

[FalseFalco]

if only every new player would do just that.. but really now, a pro vs a noobie, hard for the newbie to improve. where as newbie vs newbie and playing competitively at their own level, they get chance to do stuff, instead of getting 4 stocked.

getting owned by pros don't make me improve one bit, the game just gets boring as **** that way and i lose all motivation to play, if people are worried that bot 20 might affect melee singles # of pple then make it happen when all the main **** are done

So many things wrong with these posts

Sounds like bot20 players just don't know how to lose and have a bad attitude about the game.

If you go into the match thinking you're gonna get 4 stocked, you're gonna get 4 stocked. This whole attitude problem is negative thinking which should not be encouraged with a bot20 tournament. Notice how "good" players don't ever take this attitude when they play "better" or other "good" players. That's because you don't get better by having a **** attitude like "theres no way i can win".

Melee is a game deep enough for you to learn even when you get served. Learn how to not get hit by that same 5 hit combo or edgeguard you keep running into. Learn which hit to DI, maybe next stock try using the platforms to break up a combo, next match see if he will change characters if you pick brinstar, try to find a way to get him to fight in the middle of the map, see if he will try the same moves when you meet him in the losers bracket, etc.

Good players think this way CONSTANTLY no matter who they're playing. I never shut my brain off when I play someone I think is "worse" than me because melee is also deep enough for me to suicide, them to finally switch it up and take the match; anything can happen.

bot20 players choose to ignore this kind of thinking and won't get better playing in the small sandbox

 

[SpaceFalcon]

bot20 players choose to ignore this kind of thinking and won't get better playing in the small sandbox

Hah =D well it's funny when bot 20 winners think they get bragging rights.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

thats not the case adam, they have been playing forever really compare to the newbies. the only person really applies to your example here would be sion, but even so he played since SFU2 and he told me he basically quit cause everyone was too good. just so happen he start the game again and improved much faster now.




apparently this is not the case cause kaelen and a couple of others are obviously trying to improve.



if only every new player would do just that.. but really now, a pro vs a noobie, hard for the newbie to improve. where as newbie vs newbie and playing competitively at their own level, they get chance to do stuff, instead of getting 4 stocked.

if they really wanted to get better they would ask players like sion eric or tony, and then best the other newbs next time in a tournament.

Jack, I'm aware that tony, john, and manuel have been playing "forever" compared to most of the noobies. What I'm saying is that I remember when they were noobs (dieslow not so much, he was allready decent when I first met him) they all went about improving the right way. Alot of the mentality that carl talks about in his post is kind of what I'm getting at.

Bot 20 just isn't worth it if we don't have enough T.V's, why sacrifice other events for people who don't want to play in tournaments just cause they lose. It's fun + you improve under pressure.

When eric hosted tournaments in 06/07 all us noobs entered $10 fee and got ***** by adam/eric/tiep/ryan for a while lol

lol, the good ol days

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

me and so much people in bot 20 are improving by getting the chance to fight players around their skill at a competative level and that's why bot 20 is so nice, jacks generous so he does this for us and you know what dude i go into a match with eric/sion/roby trying my best and i get 4 stocked, even if i think about the match very hard i don't understand anything, i tell ya there's different levels of smash where only people on the same levels can comprehend each others gameplay

 

[FalseFalco]

me and so much people in bot 20 are improving by getting the chance to fight players around their skill at a competative level and that's why bot 20 is so nice, jacks generous so he does this for us and you know what dude i go into a match with eric/sion/roby trying my best and i get 4 stocked, even if i think about the match very hard i don't understand anything, i tell ya there's different levels of smash where only people on the same levels can comprehend each others gameplay

i tell ya it's been the same game for 9 years so I guess you just haven't been playing long enough...

 

[DJ Nintendo]

A big part of a player drastically improving his/her skills is by getting their a$$ kicked alot. All the pros and good players went through it. Even till this day the highest level of players get their a$$ handed to them from time to time. No matter how good a person is, its always a learning experience. Go into every match confident and sexy, but at the same time, play to learn

 

[smash mash]

LOL this is all hilarious....i honestly must say jack bot20 idea is prob one of the best things a smash community can come up with....yes of course everyone who is already pro doesn't agree with it...but obviously because your already good...in example i was pretty much ready to quit melee in all cause YES it was getting boring being ***** by all the top players...its not fun when u know you cant win a match...and yea i know its easy to say "Well then practice and get better.!!" lmao this is just another stupid comment...no one plays a game and gets pro immediately to get good you have to practice...and when tony adam, well everyone who is top right now started playing most of the players were also getting good at the game...if ya ask me i think whoever doesnt agree with bot20 is just selfish and doesn't really give a **** about the community and only cares about ****** in tourneys, only reason you want noob players to join tourneys is so you can advance and get a better placement, that's just even more sad if ya ask me...i now actually feel like improving instead of wanting to quit like before because i now want to beat those who are at my level..because i now know i have a chance...and then i guess once i have improved much more...then we advance to normal tournaments but with more confident....there are always players who are afraid to go to tournaments because they dont wanna get ***** so hard...anyways whatever if you dont agree with bot20 i just think your ignorant...yes im noob i don't care...i play smash for fun and to just get ***** every time...isn't....at least this way gives more motivation...so if anyone really does wanna see the community grow then i would recommend to host any tournament with bot20 side event...i wouldn't even mind bringing my own tv for our NOOB event...in my opinion this was a great idea..

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

When tiep/eric/ryan/me were the best, roby, manuel, and john were getting *****. *****.... look how good they are now. Who's to say that ALL of you can't do the same? You have to care about the game and WANT to improve.

 

[smash mash]

yup but i bet you guys also weren't as good as you are now...

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

yup but i bet you guys also weren't as good as you are now...

It's all relative. The skill gap was still about the same back then as it is now... I think.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

LOL this is all hilarious....i honestly must say jack bot20 idea is prob one of the best things a smash community can come up with....yes of course everyone who is already pro doesn't agree with it...but obviously because your already good...in example i was pretty much ready to quit melee in all cause YES it was getting boring being ***** by all the top players...its not fun when u know you cant win a match...and yea i know its easy to say "Well then practice and get better.!!" lmao this is just another stupid comment...no one plays a game and gets pro immediately to get good you have to practice...and when tony adam, well everyone who is top right now started playing most of the players were also getting good at the game...if ya ask me i think whoever doesnt agree with bot20 is just selfish and doesn't really give a **** about the community and only cares about ****** in tourneys, only reason you want noob players to join tourneys is so you can advance and get a better placement, that's just even more sad if ya ask me...i now actually feel like improving instead of wanting to quit like before because i now want to beat those who are at my level..because i now know i have a chance...and then i guess once i have improved much more...then we advance to normal tournaments but with more confident....there are always players who are afraid to go to tournaments because they dont wanna get ***** so hard...anyways whatever if you dont agree with bot20 i just think your ignorant...yes im noob i don't care...i play smash for fun and to just get ***** every time...isn't....at least this way gives more motivation...so if anyone really does wanna see the community grow then i would recommend to host any tournament with bot20 side event...i wouldn't even mind bringing my own tv for our NOOB event...in my opinion this was a great idea..

　 ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡ ７
　l、ﾞ ~ヽ
　じしf_, )ノ Flin and I approve.. I wanted to say the same but I ain't as literate as you, my eng sux

 

[~Firefly~]

I personally see bot20 as a stepping stone for players who are completely new to competitive Melee to get a handle on the game. When I started playing friendlies with a couple PRed players at SFU smashfests, I had no techskill aside from being able to do SHFFed lasers, and I was just getting overwhelmed, especially in Falco dittos. At that level, it really does seem like no matter what you do, you get punished for it, and it's hard to see when you start doing anything right. It's much more realistic to try new things against bot20 players, because you can actually see some kind of reward for incorporating something new into your playstyle or by breaking a bad habit. It's much less frustrating that way, and it gives n00bs a chance to get a feel for the game before jumping into the deep end.

I fully understand the value of learning by getting wrecked; I've experienced it myself in Brawl. I know it's not the same, but most of the top tiers in that game have really easy tactics that annihilate new players, so it's really hard to get past that wall. The transition from being a new player to playing at a mid/high level is tough, and I've found it vital to my improvement (in both games) to play lower level players to increase my confidence and get a clear idea of what I'm doing right. From there, players can go into a match with a top player with at least some idea of what to do, and whether it works or not, they can learn from it. Once players reach that point, entering singles is worth it IMO.

I know I didn't enter singles this time, mainly because I already told myself I was only entering bot20 and low tier (I'm really cheap >.<), and I needed to stop and take a break to eat. I wasn't expecting to do as well as I did in bot20; I got ***** last time, and I didn't see the value in entering a second event just to get ***** even harder. I will be entering regular singles next time though. I agree that it does help newish players; but at the bottom levels of play, it's more discouraging than it is helpful.

 

[Stevo]

can we at least agree that bot20 is a bad idea for THIS tournament?

or like people said, have it after the main tournament is all said and done

 

[~Firefly~]

can we at least agree that bot20 is a bad idea for THIS tournament?

I can. I won't be here anyway, but it just isn't a good idea for tournament like this. I thought this discussion was happening in another thread for a while, actually. =S

 

[unityole]

like i said, evan is the host, he will decide what to do BUT at my tournaments there will be bot20

 

[Metà]

There will be NO bottom 20 at this event.

I know I have time for it, cause I have 2 days, but I would rather just have everyone enter the main bracket.

 

[smash mash]

meh well yea i dont know about this tourney having bot 20, but dont really care cause imma be chilling in central america!!! haha jack you better keep hosting bot 20 or i will quit smash!!! (although not many will miss me....) lol

 

[jugfingers]

Hah =D well it's funny when bot 20 winners think they get bragging rights.

I ***** **** son WUT lol.



no but bot20 does take away from the main bracket, especially when there's limited tv's.
and it is kinda ridiculous to punish players for being too good, its a good idea in the right situation, but yea people just need to bring more t.v's so that people can play lots of friendlies thats how you get better I think.

 

[Yakal]

guys...i got ***** so hard, still am actually, but back in my day there were no bot20 and everyone was already good so grow some balls

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

guys...i got ***** so hard, still am actually, but back in my day there were no bot20 and everyone was already good so grow some balls

lmao, ****.

 

[FalseFalco]

guys...i got ***** so hard, still am actually, but back in my day there were no bot20 and everyone was already good so grow some balls

I think this summarizes my stance.

Although Blue Yoshi actually made the only intelligent post defending it (sorry smash mash)

@Blue Yoshi
The way you describe the advantages of bot20 is making it sound more and more like you guys don't have smashfests or play the game at all aside from tournaments. If this is the case then I guess I can see why players are discouraged so easily, But seriously playing regularly does everything bot20 would do and more. The point of smashfests is to get wrecked over and over until you can understand more about the game etc.

At smashfests there's a friendlier atmosphere and it's about learning, but come tourney time you should be playing your best, against the best competition you have available, and growing as a player by doing so.

 

[Clouderz]

Well well WELL
i go to yakals sometimes and play melee for a couple hours
get my *** handed to me on a sidedish with some rapesauce on top

but it DEFINITELY improves my game
who the shizzdig wouldnt jump at the chance of getting their *** handed by a couple of rapists at this game?
herp derp

this game is a learning experience, playing people above you = getting better in general ( then you can test your skills against someone your own level to see how much you've improved because your so use to getting your *** handed all the time, ye digg?)

its like that in everything, especially sports
ya i consider this mutha fukkin game a SPORT, ****



**** bot20
enter the real man bracket, then you can do your ****ty little bottom 20 bs against people that are your level

YOU NEED EXP FROM DA BESTT



HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Well... in my case, maybe except for once or twice, I have not played melee (or 64) since January. So I am very rusty in both games.

Edit: I'm entering the regular singles no question. Why else would I come to a melee tourney? (other than entering low tiers... )

 

[Clouderz]

Well... in my case, maybe except for once or twice, I have not played melee (or 64) since January. So I am very rusty in both games.

Edit: I'm entering the regular singles no question. Why else would I come to a melee tourney? (other than entering low tiers... )

dont give me that
you and i played melee on march 13th, for a good 30 minutes
lmao

 

[Koskinator]

clouderz
we're money matching
all day