. . .
Marth beats Diddy, lol
Anyway, I really started thinking this character was bad, but recently I've undergone another skill jump, and I realized how AWESOME Marth is.
I actually think he's the second best character in the game right now. Eh, third. Falco is gay. Snake sucks.
Marth might not have a projectile to camp with, but as I've proven true time and time over, camping is overrated. Marth has every single tool he needs to approach really well except a broken forward roll (and he can do without it.) He punishes rolls, spot dodges, and even shielding exceptionally well. He has AMAZING damage and pressure strings, and gimps like a beast. Because of Marth's high aerial mobility, and massive disjointed range in every direction, Marth can simply follow his hits, and either swing again, or punish an air-dodge. He also has a couple of true combos, and stupidly good frame traps. Also, because of the massive threat he possess to strike, he can bait dodges extremely well, and this gives him the kills that many Marth's struggle to get. He's able to punish very consistently.
He's floaty, so he's easy to juggle for some, but this weakness is only exploitable in a few match-ups (mainly MK and DK). I'll get to his hard MUs later. Marth's weaknesses include
A) Short characters/crouching. Having to commit to aerials is really bad for Marth.
B) Laggy Dair. Having few landing options make him easy to juggle. High mobility, and a Neutral B reversal help to solve this, but it's still an issue.
C) Powershielding. This is hard to do against Marth, but it ***** him.
D) Sacred Spotdodges (Falco, Toon Link, Yoshi, Link, Pikachu). These occassionally (a bit too frequently for my tastes) completely evade Dancing Blade, and that leaves Marth very open.
E) Consistent SDI out of Dancing Blade is VERY, VERY effective. Fortunately, my sparing partner can do this, so it doesn't **** me, but it removes a lot of Marth's bread and butter damage when you make it unsafe for Marth to use DB4, and reduces his follow-ups and pressure.
Umm . . . yeah, that's it, lol. I'll grant that his approaches are very susceptible to Dragon Punches, but who's aren't? I'd say it's probably Shuttle Loop that gives me the most trouble at high level play vs. MK.
People that have trouble killing with Marth are doing it wrong. ALL of Marth's aerials K.O. pretty reliably. When fresh, Fair kills MK around 130 at the edge, Uair will always kill around 120-130 when fresh. Bair edgeguard K.O.s at like 90, lol. Dair K.O.s MK guaranteed at roughly stage high around roughly 54% (and that's with a perfect meteor cancel.) Tipper Fsmash is a bit stronger than DK's Fsmash. Usmash and Utilt kill around 120. Dsmash kills around 130 (has lots of range and hits on frame 6). Untippered Fsmash SUCKS at killing, but it's good for covering a lot of space and hitting opponents off stage/killing them at 140 near the edge for airdodging. Dolphin Slash kills around 130 near the ledge, but often catches even the best of opponents in bad DI, and can be used off stage to finish an opponent off remarkably early.
. I often do this to MKs who want to Mach Tornado to go through my edge-guard. Tipper Nair usually kills around 110 from the middle of the stage.
Marth requires a lot of reading, but he's also really good at baiting, so it helps him a lot in this regard. I feel that people that say Marth is "Easy to play, hard to master" is completely correct. Between counter and UpB, even characters with massive range and priority can fall. However, I will say that if the Marth player isn't extremely precise, and doesn't have top notch reflexes, there's no point trying to fight MK. I can semi-consistently DI ftilt, and almost always punish Mach Tornado on reaction, but if you can't do these things, the MU is ridiculously hard.
Marth's platform pressure is arguably the second best in the game. Nair covers most platforms, has virtually no lag, and stabs very well. Ftilt covers MASSIVE range, and hits very high, typically covering platforms excellent, while not having enough lag to really let up pressure. Jab does the same thing (jab2 actually hits slight behind Marth) and sets up a jab lock. Additionally, shield breaker can punish people trying to block platform pressure, allowing for very low percent kills. I'd say that MK shouldn't expect to live from shield breaker at like 60% from pretty much anywhere, and I'll typically get around 60% off MK if I manage to grab him at 0%.
Against most characters that matter, Marth does ridiculous damage from a grab at 0. He can fthrow Fsmash the entire cast I believe, though some characters require a studder stepped Fsmash. However, he often has many better options. Both Marth's fthrow and Dthrow (I'm not sure about the others) are weight dependent throws. However, pretty much all the good characters except Snake are susceptible to Fthrow Nair. Nair is a linker, and true combos into most other moves. Additionally, most people are conditioned to DI in a way that allows them to fall into a Dtilt, which can then be comboed into studder stepped Fsmash, and that deals roughly 44% altogether. This is just one example of a combo string that Marth can do from a grab at 0. Of course, you can always DI the Nair, but you can still read and react to DI since Nair gives Marth time he needs to observe the way his opponent is travelling, and you can land other combos, such as a Uair, which starts a juggle. I also like jab to regrab on MK (the opponent will often shield after jab1), which allows him to be comboed by an Fthrow Fsmash after that. Marth can also Dthrow chaingrab MK 3 or 4 times, and then Fthrow Fsmash, for lots of damage. Or he could just Fair and read a follow up to hit you off stage, then set up a broken edge trap.
Marth's edge traps are legitimately broken. Often, Marth can add on 20 points to a match-up just because if done properly, his opponent doesn't really have options to get off the ledge. In friendlies, I've started just walking away to the middle of the stage, because my opponents waste 30 seconds of the match waiting for me to leave an opening in my ledge traps, or get impatient, and just ledge stall.
Dtilt covers most basic options that involved waking from the ledge, and has little lag. Even if you misspace to punish a roll (which means you're too close probably), Marth can still REACT and punish opponents at this point, generally with front cross Dancing Blade, or turn around grab, to put them back off-stage. No character in the game has a forward air that defeats Marth in terms of range, speed, and maneuverability. The few characters that out-range Marth's Fair can be EASILY reacted to. Only multi-jump characters can Bair from the ledge, but this often takes too long, and leaves them very open to getting shielding and repelled. Dancing Blade is remarkably fast (frame 4) and hits slightly below the ledge, and the first hit strikes targets on the ledge. This is often good for probing opponents, though it isn't to be used often, because it's susceptible to being ledge-attacked. Generally, you are spacing poorly if you could not block any given ledge-hopped attack on reaction. Counter or UpB can block Mach Tornado for an instantaneous punish, or running away, then blocking (this is better then blocking, then running away) is great for punishing as well. Of course, while Marth can punish a phantasm onto the stage really well, Falco will often get this off regardless. And I guess Pikachu is exceptionally hard to edge-guard, though Marth wins that MU anyway.
Ledge-jumping is often the best way to escape Marth when you're trapped on the ledge, but then a double jump is usually required to evade getting hit afterwards, and this lets Marth juggle, which he also excels at. Bair hits really high, as well as laterally, so it can be used to trap even Metaknight against Dair. However, it doesn't have the lag, or the width directly above Marth that Uair has. This means that Marth can set up an excellent trap against most characters by Bairing, and then Uairing to reset the juggle, punishing the airdodge that Bair forced. Uair auto-cancels as well, so Uthrow or Dancing Blade can often be used to hit the opponent back up. At lower percents, Uair true combos into many things as well, and will combo into another Uair until around 60 or more.
Aside from taking advantage of people when they're in bad positions Marth can easily put them into, Marth also excels at neutral. With good patience, and an excellent baiting game, alongside Marth's excellent tools, you can often get the first hit on your opponent. Dancing Blade 1 is not technically safe on block, but it's implied safety comes in the fact that the rest of the move comes after it. If spaced properly, it's very good to start a dtilt trap. If Marth dtilts your shield, he will either stab, use Dancing Blade to stab or punish spot dodge, use Dancing Blade to punish a roll, or chase you with DB1 reset if you roll away, causing you to lose field presence. Marth also has an amazing cross-up game between his ground speed and Dancing Blade, Cross-up aerial Dancing Blade, Nair, Uair, empty SH, pivot grab, etc. Because of the threat of his Fair, Marth jumping at you almost always forces block, which allows Marth amazing freedom of movement. So much implied attack power leaves Marth lots of room to get grabs, and spot dodges are easily punished by Dancing Blade, and good spacing. From grabs, Marth has amazing traps on most characters (all characters that matter). Dancing Blade is also extremely good bread and butter damage, as well as replenishing Marth's moveset, because each hit of it counts individually (as it takes 4 different inputs of sideB). This is good, because Dancing Blade often hits opponents to the ledge to start traps, or regain field presence, and allows Fair to deal more damage, and hit farther, to start traps. It's also good for refreshing Dolphin Slash, so it can be used to kill, in case it was used as a Dragon Punch without intent to kill, or if the opponent DIed it the first time.
Marth with good DI should almost always recover. Marth's Fair beats most aerials in the game, though DK and DDD's Bairs will give him exceptional trouble. Additionally, the thread of Shuttle Loop prevents Marth from following a direct path to the stage, as it cannot be airdodged on reaction. This can force an airdodge, or a transition from a high to low recovery. If Marth has his jump, you should not gimp him. If Marth uses his jump to momentum cancel, you MIGHT be able to gimp him, especially by reading an airdodge (though I frown upon Marth players that airdodge with no jump, over utilizing good DI and taking a hit that won't kill them). Between Dancing Blade stall, the threat of Fair, and Dolphin Slash spaced accordingly, Marth should rarely even fail to recover. He can also often recover very high if necessary, especially if he used his jump to momentum cancel. Fully charged neutral B will allow him to recover to the center of the stage, and a second, consecutive shield breaker will allow him continue using that momentum further into the stage, or B reversed out to evade an opponent in front or below. Shieldbreaker bounced out and then back in is VERY good to evade most traps, especially if Marth still has both jumps. Of course, counter is also good, but often not good to defend against edgeguarding because his forward foot is vulnerable during counter, and easy to hit (even unintentionally) when he's falling towards you. Breversed or turn-around counter is good to help solve this, but I haven't personally implemented this into my game yet. Also, Marth can just Dolphin Slash to defeat most characters who approach him head on with a move that either beats Fair, or one that Marth is not confident in using Fair against. Generally, people don't airdodge when trying to edgeguard, so it's exceptionally reliable, as it's near impossible to read unless overused.
Marth's OOS game is honest mediocre. It's well known that I favor Dair OOS (I think I'm actually the one to popularize this tactic), because Dair hits on Frame 6, and covers a wide area below (like MKs). Of course, this is punishable when blocks, but often it isn't punished, and a full hop Dair will enable Marth to use another action before he hits the ground. Still, this is a punishable tactic. Often, I will simply drop shield and Dash a short distance away, while then using Dancing Blade to reset shield pressure on my opponent. Marth also has a basic retreating Fair or Bair from shield, or he can go into his cross-up game to punish people slow on pressure. He can also just Dolphin Slash out of legitmate pressure except a well spaced MK. His spotdodge is slightly better than normal (the 6th best in the game after the characters I mentioned earlier) so it is a saving grace, but we all know spot-dodge is just typically a bad option. Against MK and smaller characters, Nair OOS isn't very good, since Nair doesn't mimic the sweeping, covering hitboxes of the directional aerials. Of course, Dolphin Slash is a good option, and if you're playing properly, you won't be using it much, so it will be relatively hard to bait against a good Marth.
Marth's floatiness and weight allow him to be exceptionally potent at SDI. However, like MK, he can live relatively long due to a good recovery, good defense and safety (making it harder to land reliable kill moves), and a good momentum cancel. To be fair, I could just be biased, as I pride myself on my DI, and live long with many characters, but as I mentioned, Marth's safety and options allows him to evade getting hit by reliable kill moves. It's far harder to bait him into an airdodge.
Edress, you say you find Marth predictable. I will cosign this statement, because I find Marth's I play extremely predictable as well. However, I assure you that I'm far more creative than your average Marth, and this shows that Marth has potential to be creative.
This post is already very long, so I'll end it here before starting another post going into specifics about his MUs.
BTW, in case you couldn't tell, I'm back to maining this character again. I love him again now.
)
