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Id have to agree with this. Although i think samus and jiggz are better than CF. jiggz being better than samus. Although i think ness lucas ike and yoshi are a tier higher than jiggs samus and falcon, who are all on the same level.he's clearly inferior to Ness, Lucas, Ike, Yoshi...maybe in line with Jigglypuff and Samuses that aren't Xyro.
He's not better than Ness, Lucas or Ike..joel, I would as you to tell me what characters you actually think Falcon is better than. IMO, he's clearly inferior to Ness, Lucas, Ike, Yoshi...maybe in line with Jigglypuff and Samuses that aren't Xyro.
I think we might be left with a very small low tier and an enormous mid-tier if this is the case.I think he's definitely worse than Ness, Lucas, Ike, and Yoshi-- but I think all of those characters are mid-tier and not low-tier
I pretty much agree with this thoughts about Falcon(his jab is too good xD), for the european metagame, Lionman is the only one that does really well with him, placing at top 8 in smaller events some times, I'd like to see him play at an international.That....that's just....
I feel like, much like Ike, Captain Falcon's jab alone is better than most of the characters below him right now. He has decent, if not good, matchups with quite a few characters that could be considered viable. He even fairs pretty well against the likes of Wario. His speed allows him to punish quite a few moves most characters can't, much like sonic, but with more kill power and less very hard to read moves. Personally, I feel like he still needs to go up one or two spaces more. He's pretty comfortably low tier, but it feels almost criminal that's considered worse than Mario. I don't find most of his supposed horrific matchups to be anywhere near as bad as many have claimed, and I consider myself pretty good with the character (even if Ally did win our Falcon ditto....*******). His major shortcoming tends to be his unsafe kill moves, which is a major short coming of most characters in this game. He doesn't trade much in for enormous kill power though, and a few mistakes can end very badly once Falcon is off stage. Still, he has a better recovery than the like of some characters and with proper DI can still last pretty long. Fun fact: He can utilt on a platform and hit the fire of ROB's usmash coming from below without trading, hitting ROB. This is useless, but funny.
Nobody outside of Ally has really done anything with the Captain recently. He hovers around the other low tiers in tournament results, but he has a huge stigma going against him still from being the original worst character in the game. Falcon's metagame still has a ways to go likely before being fully exhausted, and some of the new tournament stages help him out pretty well in some matchups. I'd really like to see a break out main of this character, because I just feel like he has untapped potential still to do well.
Also he's undeniably manly, even when wearing pink. That has to count for something.
I agree, that's what I said in my initial posting. ^^I think the problem with Falcon is that most Falcon users want to be mainly instead of campy. I finally picked up Falcon a while back, and I found infinitely more success when I just camped THE WHOLE MATCH. Falcon is decent at punishing, and mediocre at approaching. I wish he had Ganon's SideB.
No he can;t, Falcon is TERRIBLE.Mr.R has a good falcon too. Its def possible for a low tier like CF to hold up against chars like wario and mk if you are smart enough.
Acceleration: Falcon>SonicCaptain Falcon is in no way as good as Jigglypuff; she's just so much better all around than him, but this isn't about her.
I just don't see what's supposed to be scary about this guy. He runs fast and hits hard. He has a few jab tricks, and his uair is really good. What else? That's not nearly as much as most of the other low tiers have. You can also just compare him to Sonic. Sonic runs way, way faster than Captain Falcon (even though Captain Falcon runs second fastest, it's a really distant second), they both have about the same range/priority, and if I recall Sonic has better air speed (I do know that neither are really that good).
In terms of range, sonic has less than Captain Facon overall, BUT, his priority is actually better since he has larger disjoints to his attacks. That is rather sad.Sonic's overall moveset is about average in speed whereas Captain Falcon's is slow. Seriously, Captain Falcon would shed manly tiers if he ever actually looked at his frame data; his moves are way slower than average in terms of start-up time. How powerful he is if he hits in no way makes up for that. The fact that it's intuitively obvious that Sonic is way better than Captain Falcon and that Sonic is a clear mid tier doesn't really bode well for Captain Falcon.
Dang, I am surprised. This guy is 100% correct, will add quotes to this post later.That....that's just....
I feel like, much like Ike, Captain Falcon's jab alone is better than most of the characters below him right now. He has decent, if not good, matchups with quite a few characters that could be considered viable. He even fairs pretty well against the likes of Wario. His speed allows him to punish quite a few moves most characters can't, much like sonic, but with more kill power and less very hard to read moves. Personally, I feel like he still needs to go up one or two spaces more. He's pretty comfortably low tier, but it feels almost criminal that's considered worse than Mario. I don't find most of his supposed horrific matchups to be anywhere near as bad as many have claimed, and I consider myself pretty good with the character (even if Ally did win our Falcon ditto....*******). His major shortcoming tends to be his unsafe kill moves, which is a major short coming of most characters in this game. He doesn't trade much in for enormous kill power though, and a few mistakes can end very badly once Falcon is off stage. Still, he has a better recovery than the like of some characters and with proper DI can still last pretty long. Fun fact: He can utilt on a platform and hit the fire of ROB's usmash coming from below without trading, hitting ROB. This is useless, but funny.
Nobody outside of Ally has really done anything with the Captain recently. He hovers around the other low tiers in tournament results, but he has a huge stigma going against him still from being the original worst character in the game. Falcon's metagame still has a ways to go likely before being fully exhausted, and some of the new tournament stages help him out pretty well in some matchups. I'd really like to see a break out main of this character, because I just feel like he has untapped potential still to do well.
Also he's undeniably manly, even when wearing pink. That has to count for something.
Agree with this as well, Falcon ain't mid tier though.To add in to what Real Inferno said, Captain Falcon has quite a lot of camping potential. His high mobility in the air and his great running speed can have him be all over the place.
He's basically like a poor man's Wario: Low range, great mobility and camping abilities, solid survivability, good in punishing mistakes (here he might be even as good as Wario), in possession of a command grab and incredible manliness.
Falcon's grab game is surprisingly good - while his grab has low range, it's very quick and his throws are pretty solid.
There's also moves that are underused even among Falcons - Falcon Dive is a great command grab that even can be used to gimp against opponents that don't expect it (I used it various times already, but it's hard to pull off XD), and Falcon Kick can actually beat Tornado if I recall correctly.
The biggest urban legend is that his low priority actually matters - it doesn't. While it IS a weakness, it's not influencing Falcon's game that much. His biggest weakness is actually that he has trouble omitting pressure on shields, and isn't that good if he receives shield pressure (though Jab OoS is really good, that I have to mention).
Most people think Falcon has to be played similarly to how he was played in Melee: Aggressive pressure combat. Which is the absolutely wrong way. Falcon has to be played completely different to how he did in Melee because he doesn't have the hitstun to back up his combos. Now he has to run away and punish mistakes.
Solid low tier character, maybe borderline Mid Tier.
Agreed, utilt and spaced bair beats tornado as well. You can also dair spike MK out of it for what it's worth.Yeah, it's worth noting his major drawback is pretty much no options against projectile spam and few options against grab games. He gets CGed by Falco, Pikachu, and Dedede. Dedede is especially frustrating in getting in on him, but he is prime KNEE OF ****ING JUSTICE bait as well (especially during his Up B recovery), which helps Falcon even the score by getting some early KOs when he plays smart. Intelligent DDD's tend to hold back and bait for pivot grabs to get in the CG to edge guard which can be pretty problematic for Falcon. He's pretty tough to use in the MK matchup, but at least Falcon Kick hilariously beats tornado.
Ike isn't too bad imo, 45-55 or maybe 40-60 Ike's favor. Same with Puff, you just gotta learn the match-up. Most Falcons will stay on the ground and try to jab and utilt Jiggz which doesn't work.Falcon dominates a lot of the low tiers who aren't named Ike. I've been told that Puff annihilates Falcon one on one by being able to beat him out in many instances in the air and take him off stage for easy gimps. I don't know if I hold stock in that claim, but it's one that has been going around a while now. His use of items is a bit under-appreciated, making the Diddy Kong matchup one of his better high tier outings. Wario/Falcon is probably even. Just a few grabs and it is a free knee of justice kill. Ally makes the matchup look like sex. Climbers...I don't want to talk about that matchup, uuuuhg. Marth seems pretty bad on paper, but doesn't seem to be quite as bad in practice though still clearly in Marth's favor.
Yeah, no. Well maybe but Jiggz has no range, can't kill, and gets KO'd at 10%.Captain Falcon is in no way as good as Jigglypuff; she's just so much better all around than him, but this isn't about her.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. First of all, Falcon has the 5th best air speed in the game. Falcon has more range than Sonic and priority is a myth. Falcon may be a bit slower frame-wise, but good Falcons aren't going to use his laggy moves. I'll have to look at Sonic's frames but I don't think he beats a frame 3 jab, and a frame 6 uair.I just don't see what's supposed to be scary about this guy. He runs fast and hits hard. He has a few jab tricks, and his uair is really good. What else? That's not nearly as much as most of the other low tiers have. You can also just compare him to Sonic. Sonic runs way, way faster than Captain Falcon (even though Captain Falcon runs second fastest, it's a really distant second), they both have about the same range/priority, and if I recall Sonic has better air speed (I do know that neither are really that good). Sonic's overall moveset is about average in speed whereas Captain Falcon's is slow. Seriously, Captain Falcon would shed manly tiers if he ever actually looked at his frame data; his moves are way slower than average in terms of start-up time. How powerful he is if he hits in no way makes up for that. The fact that it's intuitively obvious that Sonic is way better than Captain Falcon and that Sonic is a clear mid tier doesn't really bode well for Captain Falcon.
Rofl, Falcon's match-ups aren't too bad anymore. If you want to see my personal opinions on each match-up, go to my guide (hint: it's stickied), some of the MUs may be of by 5 points but other than most people will agree with them. Falcon is DEFINITELY better than Mario, Samus, and Link btw.This guy really belongs low in the low tier; he's better than Ganondorf, and I think he and Bowser are close. Incidentally, those are the only two characters I can really see him having a non-disadvantage against. I just can't believe him going real even with someone as good as Wario, and I suspect Ally could do the same with any character since Ally is so talented. I think visions of him beating other low tiers are mostly just artifacts of underrating those other low tiers; I'd take Samus or Mario or Lucas or Link over Captain Falcon any day.
This is very true.I think the problem with Falcon is that most Falcon users want to be mainly instead of campy. I finally picked up Falcon a while back, and I found infinitely more success when I just camped THE WHOLE MATCH. Falcon is decent at punishing, and mediocre at approaching. I wish he had Ganon's SideB.
LOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!No he can;t, Falcon is TERRIBLE.
I persoaly think Sonic wrecks him, and I think Sonic sucks rather badly. Falcon has a harder time killing than Sonic
Half true, half LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!Falcon has issues approaching.
The reason Ally is a huge outlier, is because he is Ally being a ******, no other reason.
He best thing that Falcon has, is his jabs, and none of them are going to kill the opponent. His approaches are direct, all of them are punishable on shield. He sucks, terribly, he isn't low tier, and the fact he is above Link is laughable.
Dead wrong. Please check the facts before spewing garbage out of your mouth. Sonic is 6th and Falcon is 5th for aerial speed.Aerial speed: Sonic>Falcon
Don't really believe the disjoint part I'll have to check though, look in my guide to see the hitbubbles for Falcon (they're collapsed in the moveset analysis.In terms of range, sonic has less than Captain Facon overall, BUT, his priority is actually better since he has larger disjoints to his attacks. That is rather sad.
Willz said:the BBR is stupid and know nothing about falcon and should let one of us in