Basketball Thread

[The Real Gamer]

Spurs got doodle-jumped.

Nuff said.

 

[Wumbo105]

you do realize that lebron scoring 30 was below his average for the playoffs?
you realize that what lebron did last night is basically what he gives every night?

You do realize 30 was his career high in a Finals game right? Let's talk in present terms.

while he wasn't as efficient as he usually was in this playoffs, he was still the only threat miami had in the 2nd half, wade was missing EVERYTHING and bosh didn't do anything at all, the other players didn't give out anything, it was seriously lebron trying to keep his team in the game and it just can't happen with a team as fast as the thunder

Now you realize why Miami didn't have a chance. When the entire team is doing nothing and the one guy who is doing work is not playing like a "superstar" to carry their weight, you're not getting the win. Hopefully for Miami's sake people not named Lebron take heed of it and shape up for Game 2.

However...looking at it in simplistic terms, people not named Lebron scored almost 70 pts. So you can't say it was completely ALL him.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Wumbo you never adressed my question.

 

[Wumbo105]

I said 2 posts ago i was not going to even touch on that subject because it guarantees a million-page flame war.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah i dont buy point differential as the main indicator of a teams strength. for once im actually going to side with boredone on this. teams play differently, and minutes are allocated differently. it doesnt mean nothing, but i wouldn't give that as a reason why theyre the best team in the league. theyre probably the best regular season team in the league, but top heavy teams are rewarded in the playoffs. its hard to say. ultimately, injuries happen, and i disagree with people that like to put asterisks on championships.

except for the 2002 kings lakers that was stupid.

point differential is definitely a big deal in the NFL though

It most definitely is not. Sure, the numbers are cool, but you can't just look at that...numbers don't say everything.
If you actually watched the game, Lebron played well. Not great, not bad, but well. A superstar performance is very distinctive. The player takes control of the game, and either wins it all by himself or starts to involve the whole team and initiate a rallying asswhoopin. That's what a superstar does on a normal basis. What Lebron did Tuesday was just something a good player usually does.

what lebron did tuesday is what a superstar does on a nightly basis. youre overvaluing the 4th quarter at the expense of the first 3.

Wumbo we would all like to hear your thoughts on the 5 best. no flaming.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I said 2 posts ago i was not going to even touch on that subject because it guarantees a million-page flame war.

I'm not going to flame you.

I'm going to use concrete statistical evidence that ultimately proves you wrong. Saying LeBron James isn't a superstar is one of the most laughable statements I've heard in a while. I want to know what your idea of a superstar is, your reasoning as to why LeBron James isn't one, and then I want to know your opinoin regarding who the current top 5 players in the NBA are.

If you're not going to at least attempt to back up your opinion then why even say it in the first place? That's like me visiting a thread in the General Brawl Discussion boards and saying "SSBB isn't a good game" and then leaving without even saying why.

 

[Wumbo105]

There's a difference in that, because I didn't say Lebron was bad. I just said he's not playing to the superstar standards that you all are putting him to. I know he IS capable of it, ive seen it. At THIS point in time, as of this past Tuesday, he is not.
Once again, i like to speak in current terms. So, listing the top 5 in the league has nothing to do with this series, and is pointless.

However, this era is a time period in which superstars are extremely few and far in between, unlike the 90s for example. That being said, even tho the 1 or 2 superstars that are around would be on the list, you would eventually have to choose 2-3 non-superstars (the next best) to round out the list.
TL;DR A top 5 list wouldn't consist of 5 superstars. So even if Lebron is on the list (which he would be, dont worry) it doesnt necessarily mean he's a superstar.

 

[shadrach kabango]

If we're talking about the point differential when it comes to how much a team wins by, Miami had it the best last year with Chicago second.

You are right. The Bulls' differential last season was +7.3. Mimai's was +7.5. I recall the Bulls leading the league in point differential for much of the season and made a mistake.

Finals. Sure it can be a telling tale, but I've always said this...the playoffs are a different beast.

In small sample size and minute allocation, predominantly. Coaching is also a large factor, although it is primarily accounted for in minute allocation.

When you got superstars on your team, it sort of helps with your playoff run as opposed to not having one.

One of the things Wages of Wins has talked about that I am on board with is the "half-baked" theory, which is that only the minutes of your top six players matter. The playoffs are where superstars become particularly imbalanced since you can (and should) play them as many minutes as they can handle.

Let me be clear that I hardly do any perusal of research before I make my posts; they are off-the-cuff, and the breadth and or depth is expanded when the discussion calls for it. So allow me to refine my statement: this season the Heat should have been considered favorites over a healthy Rose-led team. Last year, however, the Bulls were certainly favorites (+8.2 differential to +6.0, and home court).

So how do you personally assess a team's strength then?

Point differential, whatever my amateur eye can discern from coaching, strength of schedule, offensive and defensive efficiency... too many to name.

Here's an excellent video that breaks down what exactly the Heat were doing wrong both offensively and defensively (which is a lot of stuff): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HENA-e6QELo&feature=player_embedded

Really highlights how poorly coached this team can be at times.

Illuminating. I have been a fan of that guy's work in the past; a shame I have not been following his work throughout the playoffs.

yeah i dont buy point differential as the main indicator of a teams strength. for once im actually going to side with boredone on this. teams play differently, and minutes are allocated differently. it doesnt mean nothing, but i wouldn't give that as a reason why theyre the best team in the league. theyre probably the best regular season team in the league, but top heavy teams are rewarded in the playoffs. its hard to say. ultimately, injuries happen, and i disagree with people that like to put asterisks on championships.

except for the 2002 kings lakers that was stupid.

point differential is definitely a big deal in the NFL though



what lebron did tuesday is what a superstar does on a nightly basis. youre overvaluing the 4th quarter at the expense of the first 3.

Wumbo we would all like to hear your thoughts on the 5 best. no flaming.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's an excellent video that breaks down what exactly the Heat were doing wrong both offensively and defensively (which is a lot of stuff): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HENA-...layer_embedded

Really highlights how poorly coached this team can be at times.

i love coach nick. i think something might be wrong with the audio though this is all i could hear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HXYdGGKV2k&t=27s
____

went by courtvisionanalytics.com
harden circlejerk:

Spoiler

cool look at harden's shot selection/effectiveness:
http://courtvisionanalytics.com/wheres-the-beard-its-not-in-the-midrange/
i like that his most active areas line up perfectly his most effective and that everything he takes is high value. 3 pointers and layups. i have to think coaching had some part in this.

as much as i hope he kills it in the finals for exposure, i kind of hope he gets into foul trouble in game 2 because i really want the heat to win.

more interesting though was their Finals Preview:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/11/sports/basketball/nba-shot-analysis.html?hp

its kind of scary how well westbrook KD and hardens hot spots complement each other

 

[The Real Gamer]

more interesting though was their Finals Preview:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/11/sports/basketball/nba-shot-analysis.html?hp

Very informative stuff here thanks for the post.

 

[theeboredone]

WB continues to impress me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8c9IGM2iW8

I just think point differential is a...well it's not a strong stat in my personal opinion. In a 82 game season, some teams are gonna give you their all everynight. Those teams are Chicago, Philidelphia, Indiana, Memphis, Spurs etc. Blue collared teams for the most part. Then you got teams that are known to take games off, play down to their competition, or just flat out be lazy. Lakers, sometimes the Heat, Knicks, etc. All it tells me is that, while yes your team maybe talented, it's also telling me you're consistent in a long seasoned schedule.

In small sample size and minute allocation, predominantly. Coaching is also a large factor, although it is primarily accounted for in minute allocation.

Won't argue there.

One of the things Wages of Wins has talked about that I am on board with is the "half-baked" theory, which is that only the minutes of your top six players matter. The playoffs are where superstars become particularly imbalanced since you can (and should) play them as many minutes as they can handle. ).

Well, I agree, but it makes sense. Superstars naturally do play more, but it's no secret they have more of an impact on the court. Whether that's drawing double teams, creating shots, or getting their team a basket when they need one. Really, the last team to win without a superstar was the 2004 Pistons. I can't think of a team before that to win one without a superstar...it's just something I've noticed, and hence why I feel like you need a superstar + stars on your team to win these days. Dirk was a one man wrecking crew last year, but he had a great cast and coach with him.

 

[shadrach kabango]

Then you got teams that are known to take games off, play down to their competition, or just flat out be lazy. Lakers, sometimes the Heat, Knicks, etc. All it tells me is that, while yes your team maybe talented, it's also telling me you're consistent in a long seasoned schedule.

That line of thinking always loses me. The most effective way to "take nights off" is to blow out your opponent. For me that's pure media spin with little foundation in fact. Akin to how Will Carroll says health is a skill, effort is also a skill. One thing smash has taught me is this: you cannot just "turn it on" and be nearly as effective than if you always had it turned on to begin with. Or as Suga Free would say, You ain't gotta get ready if you stay ready.

I agree, but it makes sense. Superstars naturally do play more, but it's no secret they have more of an impact on the court. Whether that's drawing double teams, creating shots, or getting their team a basket when they need one. Really, the last team to win without a superstar was the 2004 Pistons. I can't think of a team before that to win one without a superstar...it's just something I've noticed, and hence why I feel like you need a superstar + stars on your team to win these days. Dirk was a one man wrecking crew last year, but he had a great cast and coach with him.

Also known as the short supply of tall people.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm expecting a Heat win tonight. Hopefully proper adjustments will be made.

I gotta say though if the Heat do win tonight this series is going to get interesting.

EDIT: LeBron is meditating in chair on the sidelines instead of warming up... Interesting.

 

[Masmasher@]

Yikes durant needs to not get into foul trouble the game could get in trouble

Wade starting off early

Also Chicago better then The heat
No
They don't even have a reliable second Option offensively
This year would've been more of the same as last year except you added on a struggling rip to that small offense

 

[The Real Gamer]

That was one of the best first quarters I've ever seen from this Heat team. Slipped a bit in the 2nd Q but we all know nobody is blowing out the Thunder on their home court.

2nd time the Heat are going into half time with a lead. The Heat have at least shown me that they are capable of outplaying these guys when they maintain focus and keep the energy up... But the question is if they can keep it up in the 2nd half and not completely fall apart like they did in Game 1.

 

[theeboredone]

Great game. I still think OKC steals one in Miami. Might see this playing out like the LA and Boston series.

OKC HAVE to stop having these bad starts. They had 4 points with 4 minutes to go in the first lmfao.

LBJ was amazing tonight. You really can't say anything bad about him.

Once again, I am not leaving Shane Battier. Why do OKC players not understand this? He was the X-factor tonight + LBJ's free throws.

Edit:

LBJ makes all free throws, KD misses 2, Harden misses back to back....it's like the switch got flipped or something.

Also, I thought KD should have shot free throws when he missed that shot. LBJ fouled him pretty bad.

 

[Linguini]

We went in and did work, proud of the whole team. Really impressed by battier's performance tonight. Shows that he really was in a slump during the regular season.

I'm expecting the thunder to take one in MIA. I'd say the series goes to a minimum of 6 or just 7. OKC is just soooo clutch; when durant hit that second 3 I almost **** my pants!

 

[The Real Gamer]

I could EASILY see this series going to 7 now. As much as I'd love to see it there's no way the Heat win 3 in a row against a team this talented. IMO the Thunder will take 1 out of the 3 and send it back to OKC to rally back and win Game 6.

Game 7 will decide the fate of both teams... I'm just so happy for the Heat to finally be out of OKC man. That crowd is nuts and OKC just refuses to lose on their home floor.

 

[theeboredone]

I still don't understand basic team defense. Battier has been stupid from 3. Why do you not keep a body on him? I mean it's just...keep one guy on him. Hug him. Follow him everywhere he goes. When he gets open, it's cause the defender is not looking at him and gets screened off.

Also, I know WB got into foul trouble, but I think he should take Wade, Sefolosha LBJ, and KD on Battier. Nothing against KD, but he's way too slow for LBJ.

 

[soap]

This is just exactly what I wanted out of this series.

That Westbrook lefthand finish on James, and the putback on Durants miss. Just crazy to watch.

 

[Deleted member]

dude you guys HAVE to read this:

Great stories about Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and the Chicago Bulls by Johnny Bach

Spoiler

This is a story from a friend.

Thu, Apr 21, 2011


So my dad and I had dinner last night with former Bulls assistant coach Johnny Bach. 86 years old. Sharp as a nail. Definitely one of the coolest experiences. This guy’s knowledge about basketball and everything else is insane. Completely old school. So instead of trying to remember stories to tell all of you, I figured I’d put it in an email – that way not to forget and get into very good detail.

Johnny Bach personal file – Has been married 3 times. He has 5 sons with his first wife. Once the kids were all out of the house they didn’t get along. He was married to a flight attendant for a short time but then realized all he was doing was taking care of her kids while she was flying around the world. That ended quickly. Now, he is married to a woman 31 years younger. She is the top medical malpractice lawyer for Clifford, a top Law firm in Chicago. Both divorces took him for pretty much all he was worth. Needless to say, big Lar picked up the tab.

He was in the navy and served with many Marines in WW2. He had a twin brother that was killed at age 19 in the war…lost at sea. Loved that big Lar was a marine. Lots of crazy stories about that. He coached with or against just about every legend in coaching history. He got out of the college game because he hated the blatant cheating that went on. Frank Maquire even told him one time he would never accept a job unless he knew he had $200,000 in cash for him to available at all times.

He grew up in Brooklyn, playing against the Brooklyn Rens while growing up. An all black team from Harlem. He was one of the only white guys that would play against them. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is writing a book on the Rens. Johnny had a picture of the team that Kareem did not have. Kareem really appreciated this and has become great friends with Johnny, even though he wouldn’t give Johnny the time of day when Johnny tried to recruit him to Fordham vs. UCLA. He also now paints in his spare time and is evidently very good. He paints pictures for fallen marines’ families at the request of a medal of honor winner that he is friends with.

Here’s some Johnny Bach stories: He coached with the Bulls for the first three titles before he had a disagreement. After the third championship the Bulls had one more season in the Stadium before moving to the UC. Krause told Johnny, Tex, and Jim Clemons that the three of them would all get extensions before the team went to the new stadium for the 94-95 season. After the Bulls lost to the Knicks in 94, the Hue Hollins game as Johnny referred to it. There was a meeting 10 days after the season. All the coaches and management were in the room. Krause wanted to trade Scottie Pippen. He said he quit on the team and they didn’t want him around anymore. Johnny was the supreme voice against trading Scottie. He said he made a mistake, we all make mistakes. Krause wanted to put it to a vote – trading Pippen. Johnny called out everyone in the room saying, “if this needs to be put to a vote you’re all idiots.” They decided against it. A few weeks went by and Johnny and Krause sat down to talk new contract. Krause told him there wouldn’t be a new contract. He didn’t want Johnny around anymore. Johnny is as old school as they come. He told Krause, “you gave me your word.” (Which in Johnny’s day, your word is everything). Krause told him, “Show me that in writing.” Needless to say, Johnny despises Jerry Krause and didn’t hold his feelings back. Krause has tried to apologize to him over the years, but Johnny has always said to him, “don’t say a f’ing word to me.” So when I asked Johnny, “So all this stuff we’ve heard about Jordan, Phil, Pip hating Krause…” Johnny replied, “It’s all true.” Of all the people Johnny talked about, he definitely spoke with the most disdain about Krause.

Johnny spoke incredibly high about Tex Winter. Loves his Triangle offense. He even used the glasses on the table as the players to teach my dad and I the triangle. Classic.

Johnny believes you cannot teach someone to shoot. You can teach form and all that stuff, but it’s all about rhythm. Some guys have it, some guys don’t. He thinks what Rose has done with his shot is truly remarkable. It’s been all about hard work with Derrick Rose.

Speaking of the current NBA, here’s how Johnny answered some of our questions:

What’s missing with LeBron? Simple, a post game, he’ll never be anything until he gets his *** inside. And this current coach isn’t the guy that can do that. He thought Riley would be able to.

Who’s winning the title this year? He thinks this is a year that it’s very possible we see Oklahoma City running through everyone. He loves their coach. He believes the trade for Perkins was huge for them, and destroys the Celtics chances. He thinks the Bulls can win it as well, but just doesn’t know if Derrick’s body can hold up over the course of the long playoffs.

Who are the best coaches? Phil, Popovich, Scott Brooks, Thibadeau. He thinks Doc rivers is lacking. Likes the Pacers coach. He believes Doug Collins sees more during games than any coach he knows. But unfortunately that is his downfall. Doug lives and dies with every play of every game, just can’t be successful that way.

Johnny coached this past season as a volunteer at St. Ignatious. He doesn’t think he will next year cause he thinks the coach is an idiot. He had a chance to coach Illini recruit Nnana Egwu. Will he be any good I asked? Johnny said, “well he’s going to the wrong school. He should have gone to Northwestern. He’ll never see the court at Illinois.” So that brought up this:

What are your thoughts on Bruce Weber? He doesn’t have it. At some point you have to step up and take the blame. (Now, as you guys all know, I’ve always said, the thing that bothers me the most about Bruce is the blame game he puts on his team. When Johnny said that, Lar and I just started laughing…wow.)

Let’s get to some Bulls stuff:

As I said, he doesn’t know if D rose can hold up. He did praise Derrick, but also said Derrick couldn’t guard him at the age of 86. He’s gotten better, but still has a long way to go defensively. He thinks Boozer is a terrible defender, and that will be their achillies heel, but he also thinks Thibs won’t be afraid to sit him. He doesn’t understand the Bogans thing, which is good because no one does. He has a very good relationship with Paxson. All he would say though was that he was a hard-nosed and great player to coach.

Is/was Phil the real deal? Absolutely. Johnny spoke very high of Phil. With his best attribute being his ability to handle and get the best out of his players. When I asked Johnny about Rodman, Johnny said he didn’t think he could have coached him. But when I asked if Phil was the right guy for Dennis, Johnny said “without a doubt.” Phil knew how to get the best out of everyone. He decided early in the 1991 season that he would never have the starters play together in practice. Everyday he took Jordan and stuck him with the worst players. Then took the other 4 starters and played them against Jordan. He pitted Jordan against Pippen every day, and that’s ultimately what made them both so fantastic. On the flight home from New York after the bulls had lost games 1 and 2 in 1993. Phil showed the Bulls a Pink Floyd video, while Riley was showing his team general Patton stuff. During the video, Jordan got up and said, “Phil, you must’ve smoked some crazy **** back in your day.” The Bulls won the next 4 games.

BJ Armstrong? Very talented player, but unbelievably sensitive. Jordan used to tear him apart every minute. If BJ missed two shots in a row on passes from MJ, Michael would walk by the bench and say, “get his *** out.” BJ a very vain individual. He always made it a bigger competition with Paxson than it should have been. BJ would go insanely hard during warmup dribbling drills to try to make Pax look bad. Which one day prompted Phil to say, “BJ you’re one selfish **********.” And as you guys know, the competition between BJ and Pax continued into the Bulls front office. When Paxson was given the GM job, BJ quit. Still pissed. That’s the reason he didn’t show for the 1991 reunion last month. Johnny did say, however, that BJ is behind the scenes with D rose, and he’s doing a great job of handling him and how he acts. So that’s pretty cool.

Bill Cartwright? Well turns out Cartwright was better than I thought. (I always thought he sucked). But Johnny praised Cartwright for his Willingness to beat the **** out of anyone. Hard picks, hard fouls, sharp elbows. Johnny said Bill might have taken three years off of Mark Price’s career just by the screens he put on him. He was a very good compliment to protect MJ and Scottie in the lane.

Red Kerr – One of the greatest people Johnny ever met. A true friend and a big time partier. Never got out of control but “boy could he drink.” Great player, great enthusiasm, great friend.

Rodman – Never coached him but had great respect for him. He said Rodman used to sit outside Pistons practices afterward with a shotgun to his head. “I’m lucky I never coached him, I probably would have told him to do it already.”

Scottie Pippen? Nothing but respect for Pippen. Great teammate. Great player. He was a thug when he came into the league, but really came around and they talk regularly now. Pippen and Jordan together defensively was as devastating a duo as there will ever be. Scottie and Michael used to compete on everything. Jordan used always claim his hands were bigger, but they weren’t. Scottie was very blessed down below. And that killed Michael. Johnny said, “you should have seen the girls pippen had waiting for him everywhere we went. Madonna used to pick him up in a limo with a hot tub every time we went to L.A.Michael used to tell Madonna he could satisfy her better, to which Madonna would tell him “not a chance.””

The youngest of 17 children, Pippen has had a tough battle with money. When you combine the fact that pippen signed a stupid long term deal in 1991, family members riding him, and a crooked investment where he had $20 million stolen from him, Pip was basically flat broke when he came back to the Bulls in 2003. Reinsdorf gave him a big deal and even paid him for the two years he didn’t play, which he didn’t have to do. Reinsorf is a loyal guy and Johnny nothing bad to say about him, but Reinsdorf obviously took Krause’s position back in 1995 so it’s not all rainbows, but he likes Reinsdorf. Pippen also married Larsa who comes from big time money. So he’s doing fine now.

Pippen and Jordan? They were good buddies. Scottie really benefitted from Michael pushing him every day in practice. After a while, you never needed to worry about the team working hard because Michael and Scottie worked the hardest and they were the leaders. Everyone had to follow.

Who was the better defender? Pippen was one of the best and most gifted defenders of all time. But MJ was the better defender. Michael could shut down anyone in the world for a 3 minute span. The best he’s ever seen. (I was pretty shocked by that, but man what does that tell you about MJ, unbelievable.) Jordan was the most ferocious competitor Bach has seen in all his years of basketball. Johnny said physically Jordan and Pippen were about the same as defenders. But when you add in MJ’s ruthlessness and trash talk, that put him ahead of Scottie. When Johnny was coaching with the Hornets in 1995 they had a good team. Glen Rice, Mourning, Johnson. Series was tied at 2 and Hornets had a chance to win game 5 in Chicago. On the biggest possession of the game, Mugsy had the ball with the Hornets down 1. Jordan backed off of him and told him: “shoot it you ****ing ******.” Mugsy shot it, didn’t come close. A year later Mugsy actually told Johnny Bach that he believes that single play ruined his career. His shot never recovered.

Michael Jordan??

Johnny said not to look past it, MJ is one of the smartest people he’s ever met in his life. Jordan owns the Air Jordan brand. The money from that is astounding. Jordan also only signs ten years deals with advertisers. With an MJ-only option to pull the deal at any time.

Did he retire because of gambling? Johnny said he didn’t know. But that he told Johnny and Phil first, and said he was gonna play baseball. MJ was going through a lot with the death of his father, who Johnny called a rogue. James was always involved with bad people and Michael constantly tried to help him. He was missing for 10 days before the Jordan’s even started really looking, because that’s how he was. It wasn’t the first time he went AWOL. Johnny told Michael that he was fine with him retiring and didn’t want him to become a washed up guy hanging on. When Johnny was hired with Washington in 2000 with Jordan and Doug Collins, Johnny begged MJ not to come back. When Jordan did, he told Johnny I’ll fire you if you don’t stop telling me I shouldn’t come back haha.

Concerning gambling, Johnny did say that MJ took him to VIP rooms where they gave MJ $3 million in chips. He saw MJ lose 3 mil and win 3 mil on many occasions…playing three hands of blackjack at once. Johnny also saw Patrick Ewing lose $3 million in two hours. MJ told Patrick, you’re a complete idiot, only I could possibly play 4 hands of blackjack at once.

Women? MJ used to tell Johnny that “Tiger Woods is an idiot. I tried to help him, but the kid’s gonna get caught.” (we all know how that turned out). In order for a girl to get to MJ, she needed to go through 4 undercover former narcotics detectives just to speak to Michael. She had to be approved by all 4 to make sure she wasn’t gonna say a damn word about MJ to anyone. So there’s MJ, not the greatest character guy, but he sure was pretty smart.

A couple MJ stories I’ll leave you with:

Story #1 – The day before game 4 of the Bulls Suns finals with the Bulls leading the series 2-1. Michael and Charles Barkley went golfing. They played 48 holes of golf. And Michael bought Charles a $20,000 diamond earring. Johnny asked MJ, “what did you do all that for?” Michael responded, “he won’t get in my way the rest of the series, what’s $20,000 to me? Charles thinks we’re great friends. I hate that fat ****.” Jordan dropped 55 in game 4 and Barkley never touched him once.

Story #2 – Jordan invited Johnny Bach (Johnny later told me they talk once a month, good friends) to MJ’s Hall of fame dinner. It was $1,000 per plate, plus airfaire, hotel, etc. Johnny straight up told Michael that he didn’t have the money. The next morning, a limo showed up, airfaire and hotel and dinner was paid for, along with other money to spend for the week.

Unbelievable.

taken from http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=204475

 

[ThaRealSKWEEZY]

miami goin IN homeys

edits

except for the 2002 kings lakers that was stupid.

naw dawg that **** was MAGIC

 

[shadrach kabango]

I still don't understand basic team defense. Battier has been stupid from 3. Why do you not keep a body on him? I mean it's just...keep one guy on him. Hug him. Follow him everywhere he goes.

The coaching staff has assigned defensive schemes. Everyone knows where the help's going to come from. When it's going to come. How the rotations back will occur.

You don't abandon all of that because of a small sample size. Furthermore, never straying from Battier does you more harm than good. The optimal win for the defense is running Battier off the 3-point line, which they did at least a couple of times.

Let's say you stick like white-on-rice to Battier. Now who is helping on LeBron blow-bys? Wade post-ups? Bosh blow-bys? Results-oriented thinking leads to failure.

 

[The Real Gamer]

The part that still scares me about OKC last night was the fact they once again rallied back into the game and nearly won it... The only real difference between Game 1 (13 point lead) and 2 (17-18 point lead) was that the Heat were able to slow OKC's run down in the 2nd half of Game 2 instead of just flat out collapsing and letting the Thunder take over like in Game 1.

Basically what that tells me is no lead against OKC is safe... No matter how sizable. I'm not sure if the Thunder will still be this lethal in Miami but damn even though this series is split 1-1 I still don't feel that confident knowing that the Heat will most likely have to win another in OKC if they want to win this series. The Heat HAVE to be up at least 3-2 going into OKC. There's a very slim chance they win the last 2 on OKC's home floor.

 

[shadrach kabango]

How about a hand for the refs? That was the best officiated game I can recall. NO FLOPS ALLOWED!

 

[theeboredone]

The coaching staff has assigned defensive schemes. Everyone knows where the help's going to come from. When it's going to come. How the rotations back will occur.

You don't abandon all of that because of a small sample size. Furthermore, never straying from Battier does you more harm than good. The optimal win for the defense is running Battier off the 3-point line, which they did at least a couple of times.

Let's say you stick like white-on-rice to Battier. Now who is helping on LeBron blow-bys? Wade post-ups? Bosh blow-bys? Results-oriented thinking leads to failure.

I remember one 3 Battier hit. It's not about helping on a Wade drive or LBJ drive. When one of them drives from the top, what happens is that WB or KD is laying off Battier. They were talking about this play a lot. For whatever reason, both Ibaka and Perkins were guarding Bosh, anticipating the drive. So what was WB doing next to Ibaka? He was so off of Battier, that Chalmers proceeded to make his rotation to the other side of the court, and then Battier rotated to the top of the 3 point line. It's just falling asleep on defense.

It's not about taking away the drive or anything. It's not about sample size either. Battier has been shooting over 50% from 3 since he broke out of his slump last series. Understand who you want taking the shot. If I had to pick between Chalmers and Battier, I'd take Chalmers at this point.

Remember how JVG mentioned that when Norris Cole was in the game, he should be forced to take the 3? Well the moment he took one, brick.

 

[shadrach kabango]

Hollinger:

Against a Miami team that virtually never posts up its bigs, however, Perk's best defensive skill has become irrelevant. Instead, his offensive limitations become apparent -- Miami is putting Shane Battier or LeBron James on Perkins, both of whom are small forwards, and Perk still can't score. Meanwhile, one of the Thunder's bigs has to be a fish out of water defending the 3-point line.

As a result, when the Thunder use their traditional power lineup against Miami's small-ball starting unit, they're getting blown to smithereens. The Heat have 61 points against that group in barely two quarters of game play; Battier has 21 of them, including six 3-pointers, as Ibaka continually gets sucked into the paint and leaves Battier with the basketball equivalent of hitting fungoes.

Mind you, Battier averaged just 8.3 points per 40 minutes on 38.7 percent shooting in the regular season; this can't be the guy who derails their season. Against other lineups, he hasn't, with just 13 points in nearly 60 minutes (and three of those points came on an unintentional bank shot). But playing against the Perk lineup turns this slingshot into a howitzer.

It's not about sample size either. Battier has been shooting over 50% from 3 since he broke out of his slump last series.

Small ball.

Also note that all open 3-pointers are not made equal. Battier was hitting his 3s from the wing. He is much more effective from the corner (as are most NBA players). That is a small win. When you do give up open 3-pointers, you want them to be from the wing or the top (except for Durant, who shoots his best percentage from the top).

Also worth reiterating that there is no such thing as the Hot Hand. You are not more likely to make your next shot because you made two in a row, or three in a row. You can google the statistical analysis done with regards to this; I believe it was showcased at last year's MIT Sloan Analytical Conference. So overreacting to Battier getting "hot" would be fallacious.

Schematics, dawg. You have to give something up.

I was scratching my head at the Heat giving up two open corner 3s for Durant.

Yet there will always be defensive breakdowns in the course of an individual game. The key is to get to the source. I think Hollinger did a good job of doing that, per usual.

By the way, James' performance in Game 2 was one of the best I have ever seen from him. I would love to see a shot chart, but seemingly all his shots were in the paint. In the first half he had just 14 points on 13 shots, but I noted that he was absurdly effective schematically because he got the memo from Spoelstra and was aggressive, posting up ad nauseam.

Once again Wade was the weak link. He has lost a step. Not half a step, but a step. He did have one or two blow-bys, but he kept settling for Js instead of working the post.

 

[theeboredone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuznLcwI5Tc

The highlights account for 3 of Battier's 5 three pointers made. One was the lucky off the glass. The other two were due to poor transition defense (once again, after James and Wade, I'm accounting for him), and the other one was WB falling asleep on defense. If you know your scouting report, you should know Wade is a poor 3 point shooter, and assuming he does dribble and drive, there's not much time left on the shot clock for another kick out.

His other two makes were of the similar variety of being left wide open. Again, a small guy has no business "helping" especially if Battier is in the corner. Leave that to your two bigs in Perkins and Ibaka.

You can call it what you want. Hot hand or not, but the guy has been balling from deep these last two series. Prior to that, he was stinking up the joint. TRG would know. Out of all of their three point shooters, he is priority one right now. You live and die with anyone else making them.

I remember watching that Coach video, and he also mentioned how in Game 1, the Miami perimeter spacing was so bad, they were still making their 3's. It's just bad defense on OKC's part.

Btw, far as this hot hand theory goes. LBJ is still shooting extremely poorly from the perimeter, even after he makes one. WB still is struggling from that 13 foot pull up he likes to do. Wade has been shaky on his J as well.

 

[The Real Gamer]

You can call it what you want. Hot hand or not, but the guy has been balling from deep these last two series. Prior to that, he was stinking up the joint. TRG would know.

I could link you guys to multiple posts from Heat fans on RealGM from about 2 weeks ago begging for Battier to be traded and how much of a bust he is, so yes... yes I would know. lol

EDIT: Oh my...

"So far when LeBron James has been trailing in these playoffs, he averages 39/13.6/6.3 in the next game (3 wins)"

"LeBron is 10th player to score 600+ points in a postseason: MJ, Kobe, Hakeem, Barkley, Bird, Wade, Shaq, Iverson & Dirk."

LeBron needs to keep up this level of intensity and drive every game that he plays in... But overall hes been amazing to watch. I knew he would step up from last year. If he can lead the Heat to a ring this year maybe it will be enough for him to rid himself of his "choker" status.

 

[shadrach kabango]

His other two makes were of the similar variety of being left wide open. Again, a small guy has no business "helping" especially if Battier is in the corner. Leave that to your two bigs in Perkins and Ibaka.

At :24 we see a Wade blow-by. No help from Battier's man. Dunk.

Hollinger's point proven: Ibaka is on the perimeter against Battier, resulting in a lose-lose proposition.

You are right that at :39 Battier's three was due to poor transition defense. Like I said, defensive breakdowns happen. The Heat were breaking down defensively in transition all throughout Game 1.

Yet you are simply overreacting to small sample size to act as if this is some uncommittable, unexcusably low-basketball IQ play to lose track of Battier in transition. He is not Jason Terry, circa 2011 Playoffs. He is not Chauncey Billups. That is not his bread-and-butter shot. He shot 34 percent from beyond the arc this season. Him (temporarily) becoming a knock-down shooter is a product of the small ball lineup that is granting him wide-open 3-pointers due to defensive miscommunication.

Once again your video shows Hollinger is spot-on.

At 1:35 Battier could've had another open 3. Would that result have you vociferously proclaiming that Battier needs to be the No. 1 priority in transition? So let's have Ibaka chase Battier off the arc and give up an easy two points.

It doesn't matter who it is. Send Sefolosha. Okay, Battier will recognize that and swing it to the top to run the offense. Now LeBron James has a mismatch. James on Ibaka on the perimeter. Blow-by. No help. And 1.

So it goes.

At 1:47 Wade beats his man. Ibaka cannot help. Easy two for Wade.

At 2:01 it's a similar story. LeBron and Chalmers on the strong side. Bosh, Wade, Battier weak side. Westbrook is Wade's man, which is why he is helping: Wade is not a shooting threat. LeBron in the post and Bosh's presence force the D to collapse. If the Thunder do what you say, a big is on the perimeter. Mismatches: an open 3 for Battier, or an easy two for James, or a Wade mismatch on the perimeter.

 

[Deleted member]

thought i'd share a youtube comment from the postgame press conf.

"Durant is good, RW is a loose ***** canon."
-poopintree

the censored word is 'kitty'

regarding battier getting open shots... i dont think thats nearly as bad as durant getting 10 open three pointers in game 2

bosh getting 15 rebounds (7 offensive) is crazy. at the same time, while watching it happen, it just made sense against the thunder. everyone else seems so short and stout in comparison.

harden got two shots in the 2nd half. smh.

 

[theeboredone]

WB has been playing like a loose cannon. Big reason why they fall behind early, but also big reason why they catch up. WB is playing both ends of the floor extremely hard, sometimes to a detriment. But here are a few examples of his energy coming out as helping hand...

1. KD's one on one missed layup, with WB putting it back up because he hustled with him.
2. WB playing the stealing lanes actively, and getting his hands on a lot of balls.
3. WB never stopping to get to the hoop.

Of course, the flaws are that, because he's so amped up, he doesn't see the floor correctly. He will go possessions without anyone touching the ball, and miss that 13 footer. It's no problem if he's making it, but he's been slumping since the start of the SA series.

All in all, bro needs to calm down. It's one thing to take bail out shots (he had a lot of those, cause KD couldn't get open), but he should be looking to get KD started first, then him.

@Shad, here's my response to your responses of the responses that I responded too.

Spoiler

At :24 we see a Wade blow-by. No help from Battier's man. Dunk.

That's not Ibaka's help, that's Perkins. WB takes Bosh or assuming Wade kicks out, tries to run past a screen (which Bosh is in no position for), and have Chalmers make it. Overall though, that was just terrible defense to begin with. No way there should be a parting of the seas and Wade walks in for a dunk.

Hollinger's point proven: Ibaka is on the perimeter against Battier, resulting in a lose-lose proposition.

Agree and disagree. To start the game, OKC got a lot of offensive rebounds because they had Battier on Ibaka. The problem was that they couldn't capitalize on it. Their best lineup though was when Harden came in and Durant guarded Battier.

Yet you are simply overreacting to small sample size to act as if this is some uncommittable, unexcusably low-basketball IQ play to lose track of Battier in transition. He is not Jason Terry, circa 2011 Playoffs. He is not Chauncey Billups.

Of course.

That is not his bread-and-butter shot. He shot 34 percent from beyond the arc this season. Him (temporarily) becoming a knock-down shooter is a product of the small ball lineup that is granting him wide-open 3-pointers due to defensive miscommunication.

But that's my point, temporarily. Mike Miller was a 45% shooter for the regular season, but he's shooting 37% in the playoffs. Give credit to playing tough defenses, but he's missed a lot of open shots as well. Battier was doing pretty bad to start the playoffs, but he's clearly stepped it up. I mean, he might slump back in Game 3, but this is two games he's burned you. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice? Just go home then.

Once again your video shows Hollinger is spot-on.

At 1:35 Battier could've had another open 3. Would that result have you vociferously proclaiming that Battier needs to be the No. 1 priority in transition? So let's have Ibaka chase Battier off the arc and give up an easy two points.

First priority is to stop the ball. They never stopped the ball. Poor transition defense. It wasn't from an offensive set as it was transition. In the previous example where he made one, they had already stopped the ball. They forgot to man up on the players following up.

It doesn't matter who it is. Send Sefolosha. Okay, Battier will recognize that and swing it to the top to run the offense. Now LeBron James has a mismatch. James on Ibaka on the perimeter. Blow-by. No help. And 1.

Their best lineup last night was Ibaka at the center, KD at the 4 guarding Battier, Harden guarding Chalmers/Wade, WB the other, and Sefolosha guarding LBJ. KD might not have the strength to bang inside, but any offensive rebounds they gave up were more of a lack of effort *(standing around) as opposed to getting pushed out. KD on Battier is a much easier handle than Ibaka with Perkins playing the 5.

At 1:47 Wade beats his man. Ibaka cannot help. Easy two for Wade.

No, the help was supposed to be on KD's part. JVG even pointed this out that KD has to be more aggressive on stopping Wade on that particular play. Furthermore, Perkins has to step in as well, with WB rotating to Bosh and doing his best to box out. Assuming it's a missed shot, Bosh probably gets an offensive rebound unless the ball goes the other way.

At 2:01 it's a similar story. LeBron and Chalmers on the strong side. Bosh, Wade, Battier weak side. Westbrook is Wade's man, which is why he is helping: Wade is not a shooting threat. LeBron in the post and Bosh's presence force the D to collapse. If the Thunder do what you say, a big is on the perimeter. Mismatches: an open 3 for Battier, or an easy two for James, or a Wade mismatch on the perimeter.

As I said earlier. Bad defense to start out the possession. Ibaka was playing way too off, double teaming Bosh when Perkins already had him. Let's say WB switches and keeps track of Battier, Battier has to swing it to Wade who has about 3-4 seconds to make a play. Chances are, it would be a pump fake or jump shot. Wade already got him once with it, so maybe he gets him again or doesn't. All in all though, a jump shot over Ibaka is tougher than a wide open 3. Poor rotation and set defense.

 

[shadrach kabango]

Looking at which player had a higher usage percentage in each game, we can see a pattern emerge: The Thunder are more efficient offensively and win more games when Westbrook’s usage percentage exceeds Durant’s.

Another thing we can look at is how the Thunder have performed when Westbrook and Durant use a lower/greater percentage of their team’s plays than usual.

Looking at the four combinations of each player's usage percentage relative to his average:

• The Thunder offense is at its worst when Durant has an above-average usage percentage and Westbrook has a below-average usage percentage, averaging just 104.0 points per 100 possessions in those 20 games, with the team winning less than half of those as a result.

ESPN Stats & Info

 

[Deleted member]

dude your avatar got really serious. power of mind?

anyway im skeptical, but open to this. durant definitely needs someone to work off of, but i feel like they still need to find way to get him more shots than westbrook. does usage percentage take assists into account? if so, could his usage % be higher because he's spreading it around?

 

[theeboredone]

WB only averaged around 5 assists in the regular season, and I remember bringing that stat up when WB takes more shots, the team wins more compared to when Durant takes shots.

In this series and last series, his assist numbers have been going up though, but as of now, they are 1-1 in this series with WB taking more shots.

 

[Deleted member]

Id like to see some thing like the number of passes he makes in those wins vs the losses

 

[theeboredone]

And I'd like to see how much of an impact Bynum and Gasol have with the opposing team when they are being lazy *****.

 

[shadrach kabango]

This article answers my question of how Durant got wide-open looks from the corner.

 

[theeboredone]

Everytime I see LBJ or someone getting an offensive rebound, KD is just standing around...why does WB have more rebounds than him?

And people compliment KD's passing too much. I would say he's average at best.

Lmfao, what a ****ty foul call on Wade's reverse layup.

Edit: Stern...surprised he didn't say the whole "do you beat your wife" to Wilbon.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

LMAO everyone look at Shane battiers wikipedia