Basketball Thread

[shadrach kabango]

Straight up failure from Bosh, LBJ and Wade tonight. Should've had this game.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Mike Miller 10min
Joel Anthony 2min
Battier 42min
(Lebron 46min)

FAIL rotations are FAIL.

 

[theeboredone]

Battier was playing great though. And his D on Harden/WB was good for the first half at least.

 

[mood4food77]

you can't blame lebron, he was the only offensive force the heat had, wade played like **** the entire 2nd half, bosh couldn't get going, battier had a good game offensively, i don't think i even saw chalmers in the 2nd half (who had a decent 1st half)

but the thunder just exposed everything the heat tried in the 2nd half, they basically played away from lebron and bosh the entire 2nd half and got whatever shot they wanted

durant is just so nasty

 

[Malice Chains]

I'm happy thunder won but sad I might lose $20 now

 

[The Real Gamer]

This loss is definitely not on LeBron. It was just terrible half court offense in the 2nd half combined with an awful performance from Wade.

Seriously though I have no idea what the Heat are going to do for Durant... You can't double him thanks to Harden and Westbrook. If you put a bigger defender on him he'll just drive right past you. If you put a smaller defender on him he shoots right over you.

It's like the Heat are going up against DIRK 2.0 man. lol

 

[theeboredone]

This loss is definitely not on LeBron. It was just terrible half court offense in the 2nd half combined with an awful performance from Wade.

Seriously though I have no idea what the Heat are going to do for Durant... You can't double him thanks to Harden and Westbrook. If you put a bigger defender on him he'll just drive right past you. If you put a smaller defender on him he shoots right over you.

It's like the Heat are going up against DIRK 2.0 man. lol

Harden wasn't even an impact, so don't even consider him. WB couldn't hit a J. Hell, he went out in the third with about 4 minutes left, didn't come back until 3 minutes left in the fourth. Still didn't do anything.

I know it's hard to say this, but going 2/6 in the fourth, while also letting KD run wild is on him. I know KD is arguably the hardest cover in the NBA, but if you're supposedly the best one on one defensive player, and was considered for DPOY...in the words of Stephen A..."You gotta get it done!"

 

[The Real Gamer]

You can't expect LeBron to efficiently carry the scoring load AND guard the opposing team's best player after nearly playing non-stop. This loss is clearly on Wade.

EDIT: I think a better course of action for the remainder of the series would be for Wade to just focus on Westbrook defensively and give more touches to Bosh as opposed to Wade on offense.

 

[theeboredone]

Why not? He essentially has been doing that for three series now. He took Melo. He took Granger, West, AND Hibbert. He took Pierce and even KG on occasions. Now he can't do it?

He doesn't have to carry the scoring load, but he can't be shooting under 50% either. Not when he has plenty of dunks and AND 1's on his shot chart. Hell, the fourth quarter, there was no blocking presence either.

 

[Masmasher@]

Good game
thunder stuck around and thats what they love to do.
it doesnt matter that the heat arent usually up by the half and they were this game cause okc just likes to keep it close till the fourth.
did the same thing with the lakers.
I really like collison as a defender and he lit the heat up on the boards in the fourth.
durant was of course great closing and it not like they had a great shooting night.
this is a great series so far the phantom calls need to stop though.
westbrook was playing a little bit silly at the end but a win can be lived with.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I said EFFICIENTLY... None of those players you mentioned are Kevin Durant.

 

[theeboredone]

He also held KD to a poor game in one of their two regular season meetings. It's not like he can't do it. LBJ needs to be physical with him and he will wear him down.

I'm not saying Wade or Bosh played great or anything. But last I checked, KD is LBJ's man, and KD went off for 16 some points in the fourth. On top of that, you're the guy who creates your team's offense. Your offense was so bad in the second half, that KD and WB outscored your team. If you're the MVP, the best player in the league, you can't have that.

 

[mood4food77]

lebron wasn't on KD the entire time

the second half, KD was moving around and made sure lebron wasn't in the way, lebron did a decent job when he actually was covering him, you just can't stop him

also, hasn't lebron played 3 straight games with no rest? spoelstra needs to go

 

[Wumbo105]

Yea OKC used Sefolosha to shut down Lebron for pretty much all of the 3rd and 4th quarters. Not only did this take pressure off of Durant to focus on scoring like a straight boss, Sefolosha is a good enough defender to hold Lebron down to like what, 7 pts in the 4th? 3 of which were from the line? Yeap.
I'm very pleased with how fast OKC has figured out Miami's gimmicky playstyle.

 

[shadrach kabango]

also, hasn't lebron played 3 straight games with no rest? spoelstra needs to go

No, that's actually great coaching. You play your stars as much as possible in the playoffs. Kevin Durant and Westbrook were playing entire 2nd halves v the Spurs.

The Heat sucked in the 2nd half because they were unable to force any turnovers. That meant they were running the half-court offense every time down, which largely consisted of Wade/James taking and clanking mid-range jumpers. Many of these shots were open, and they simply have to make them. That is how you open up room for the drive. Wade, Bosh and James couldn't convert. The Heat lost.

Toss in another 4th-quarter disappearing act by LeBron and he'll be blamed for this loss. 36 points on 20 shots or 30 points on 24 shots? 17 points in the 4th quarter versus 4 for LeBron? Durant smote LeBron in Game 1.

ESPN Stats & Info:

The Heat made 9-of-15 field goals from 10 feet and beyond in the first quarter of Game 1 but were just 7-of-31 from distance the rest of the game. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh combined to go 9-of-35 on such shots in the game.

James scored 17 of his 30 points on 58 percent shooting against Durant, but was held to seven points on 29 percent shooting against Sefolosha.

Hollinger:

• The contrast here is so stark because the Heat were the league's No. 2 defense against points in the paint in the regular season, according to NBA.com's stats database, while the Thunder were just 22nd and actually were outscored on points in the paint in the regular season. Even after Tuesday night's plus-20, Oklahoma City barely breaks even on PIP for the playoffs. Miami has to win this category.

The Thunder, plagued by turnovers all season, had just 10 in Game 1. Again, Miami has to win this category. The Heat were third in the NBA in forcing turnovers, creating miscues on 17.6 percent of opponent possessions; the Thunder were the NBA's worst turnover team, with mistakes on 17 percent. While they've improved on that number in the playoffs, results like Game 1's -- with just 10 turnovers on 89 trips -- can't happen.

And then there were the fast-break points: 24 for Oklahoma City, just four for Miami. Miami was fifth in the NBA in fast-break points against in the regular season; while the data suggests the Thunder should have a small advantage, it's only about two points per game. In Game 1, their edge was 10 times as large.

 

[theeboredone]

lebron wasn't on KD the entire time

the second half, KD was moving around and made sure lebron wasn't in the way, lebron did a decent job when he actually was covering him, you just can't stop him

also, hasn't lebron played 3 straight games with no rest? spoelstra needs to go

LBJ did get a small break. About 2 minutes in the second quarter. On the flipside, KD also played 46, and WB chipped in with 42. Honestly though, I thought WB was consuming the most energy on the floor. The guy was a freaking Energizer Bunny. He nearly had a triple double, and when Sefolosha took LBJ in the fourth, he took Wade. Very underrated defensive player. He's been doing a heck of a job these last two series.

Took Tony Parker last series. Now Wade. Good stuff from him.

I will say LBJ maybe tiring out from doing the little things. Like boxing Perkins out. That must not be easy. With Wade possibly limping, LBJ can't even get a few minutes to rest to start the fourth.

LBJ has to straight up take KD in the fourth. I'm sorry but Battier and Wade are like ******* KD can shoot over.

 

[CableCho57]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgo8KcoKuVs&feature=g-all-u

lmao

 

[brownsheep]

lebrons in the finals with the second best team in the NBA

and yet i feel sorry for the guy

here's your assignments today bron:
run our offense
get people involved
also, lead in scoring
also, grab a bunch of steals
also, guard KD
also, take care of perk on the boards, and nearly lead us in rebounding
k thx.

i think thabos effectiveness on lebron is a little bit misrepresented by that 29% stat. he was getting a LOT of help.

p.s. bron had 7 points in the 4th against Thabo, not 4. 7 in a quarter is pretty damn good (28 ppg pace), especially considering how ridiculous those left handed triple teamed 10 footers he was taking in the 4th the were when no one else was hitting shots. he didnt disappear, he was the only one working. last years finals when he was just standing around was disappearing. this was just forcing up shots down low when no one else was hitting from deep.

some of those passes he was throwing around early in the game were really bad though. theyre gonna have to be more careful on TOs

 

[etecoon]

lebrons in the finals with the second best team in the NBA

still think the spurs would have beaten the heat as well, that series should have gone 7 games but stern put his foot down at the first opportunity because he wanted no part of that team being in the finals and ruining their ratings again

but yeah, lebron probably taking too much criticism when d-wade not being d-wade is a much bigger issue for the heat. I still can't bring myself to feel bad for THE CHOSEN ONE, "not one, not two, not three..." etc, he brings the ridiculous expectations on himself, but people are lacking perspective

 

[theeboredone]

lebrons in the finals with the second best team in the NBA

and yet i feel sorry for the guy

here's your assignments today bron:
run our offense

Like he's never done that before. He's been the point forward ever since he got into the league. Big whoop. The guy flat out failed in this department in the second half.

get people involved

Isn't that what your best player, MVP, and superstar supposed to do? The guy we claim who is more like Magic than MJ? The guy who supposedly is supposed to be averaging 10 assists per game, but has only been flirting around 5 this post season?

also, lead in scoring

That's supposed to be Wade's job. Though he's clearly sucking or "hurt"

also, grab a bunch of steals

Dumb.

also, guard KD

Well let's see. LBJ plays the 3. KD plays the 3. Nevermind that anyone else is too small to guard him. Eh, go guard someone else. Oh yeah, nevermind he was considered for DPOY.

also, take care of perk on the boards, and nearly lead us in rebounding

This is on Spo. It's time to put Bosh back in the lineup along with Haslem. Hell, let's invite Joel Anthony back. It's not like Perkins or Ibaka are post players. You just need big bodies to bounce around with them. Playing small ball will get you killed.

i think thabos effectiveness on lebron is a little bit misrepresented by that 29% stat. he was getting a LOT of help.

There's no such thing as a true one on one stopper. Stars will get to the hole at will. With that being said, even LBJ had a lot of help defense in shutting down Rose last year. The same LBJ who got burned by Jason Terry, cause he didn't have help behind him.

Thabo did a great job on LBJ, and to my surprise...Collison was a shot blocking presence that made LBJ miss shots at the rim.

p.s. bron had 7 points in the 4th against Thabo, not 4.

I don't think anyone said he had 4 lol.

7 in a quarter is pretty damn good (28 ppg pace), especially considering how ridiculous those left handed triple teamed 10 footers he was taking in the 4th the were when no one else was hitting shots. he didnt disappear, he was the only one working. last years finals when he was just standing around was disappearing. this was just forcing up shots down low when no one else was hitting from deep.

I give credit to OKC's D tightening up, but Miami's offense got way too iso-oriented in the second half. Recall in the first half how ball movement got guys like Bosh, Battier, and Chalmers open looks. In the second half, Wade and LBJ combined for 50 some touches, while Bosh had about 15. Wade sucked and couldn't even create for others. He's not going up against 50 year old Ray Allen on a bad ankle anymore. His knee is bothering him. Blah blah. Point is, he can't create as much compared to LBJ, who also failed on the premise that he uh....well I dunno, he couldn't generate points for his team or his teammates.

Really, the adjustment has to be this. Bring Bosh back in, Battier to the bench. Battier goes up against Harden. Bosh and Haslem battle the OKC bigs on the boards. Wade obviously has to be more active. Put Bosh in the post. Miami roleplayers have to show up again, and LBJ has to take KD.

 

[shadrach kabango]

The Bulls with a healthy Rose were also better than the Heat.

AJ is right that "blame LeBron" is lazy. But that's America. "Fans" are "fans" for a reason. They are not knowledgable and don't care about the truth. They care about the entertainment.

Blaming LeBron is entertaining.

The Thunder had just three turnovers in the second half after seven in the first. Westbrook was jacking up J after J offensively, but he seemingly made at least 40 percent of them and did not turn the ball over. Harden was off, but he only had one turnover.

If the Heat don't force turnovers, they will not win. That is the most important part of this series.

To anyone advocating Joel Anthony's presence:

For what? He's one of the worst players in the NBA. His banishment is long overdue. You lose all credibility by advocating more minutes for Anthony.

 

[theeboredone]

I'm also tired of people excusing Wade for all this nonsense. How the hell is this information in his knee getting out? I seem to recall Kobe having knee surgery after the 2010 finals, but the only bit you heard was when he got his knee drained in the earlier rounds of the playoffs. After that, he was pretty quiet about it.

Lololol. Jim Rome pissing off David Stern.

http://deadspin.com/5918141/?utm_ca...ource=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

[Masmasher@]

In the course of the game.
coach doesnt have a choice but to play lebron max mins.
they go as he goes with the offense.
and yes wade as i said is hurt.
when you have knee problems like that you can only play in small concentrated bursts.
now i would like to have wade prove me wrong to make this a more entertaining series but until otherwise he is hurt.
your boy lebron came to play WITH you so you gotta figure out something or its maybe next year.

loved kevins mom on first take you can tell she really treats the whole team as if they are all her kids.

harden will get going more next game along with them and thats going to cause more havoc to the game.

 

[theeboredone]

I think OKC will take Game 2, but I'm not sure how the next 3 in Miami will play out. Gut says OKC somehow win 2/3, but I feel like they will only go 1-2. Each game tells its own story. I mean, yes Harden stunk up the joint in Game 1, and yes Battier had the game of his life...but in the same game where LBJ was unstoppable in Game 6 vs Boston, and the Celtics only going 1/whatever from 3....they were only down 12 to start the 4th.

Point is, every game is different, no matter who is hot.

 

[shadrach kabango]

Miami in 5.

 

[Jane]

times like this i wish i knew more heat fans/believers irl. Sooo much moneywould be made off of them. I already made a bet with my sole heat fan friend, so she'll be owing me a smokeout and food by the end of this series >:D

 

[theeboredone]

Btw, LBJ is 3/24 in Game 7 and Game 1 when it comes to jump shots. Should have been 0/7 in the first half, but he hit that stupid bank shot.

 

[Wumbo105]

The fact of Wade being "hurt" seems pointless to mention IMO. He is still showing he can drive and do his usual slithery action in the lane just like always, so it's obviously not bothering him much, if at all. Don't start tackin' up excuses to the Fail Bulletin.
Getting outplayed is getting outplayed, and that was Game 1. Its over now tho, so now is the time for Spoelstra to show his worth as a tactician.

As far as Lebron is concerned...ESPN keeps saying "if Lebron has another superstar performance" then the Heat are in good shape. The issue is, superstars shouldn't "maybe" play like superstars on certain days. You either are or you aren't. And he just isn't showing what he should be showing. There are various players' books he should take a page out of concerning this, which I will not list to avoid the ever-impending "whos better" argument.

 

[theeboredone]

LBJ I thought had a superstar enough of a game on the offensive end at least. He was playing KD pretty well for the first 3 quarters. We all know though that 4th quarter is KD time. Him scoring an absurd amount of points in the fourth has been "everyday" business for him these playoffs. I thought LBJ failed on the defensive end. Not wanting to take on the challenge or oppose his coach.

Wade sucked so bad though. I actually listened to his pre-game speech. I agree with Skip Bayless. He just seemed...so out of it. Like he didn't care. Like he's content with what he has. Clearly not the Wade from last year. Did these two reverse roles or something?

 

[ViperGold42]

Btw, LBJ is 3/24 in Game 7 and Game 1 when it comes to jump shots. Should have been 0/7 in the first half, but he hit that stupid bank shot.

maybe we should point out that he's 2/9 or 2/10 in NBA Finals games.

 

[brownsheep]

I don't think anyone said he had 4 lol.

Toss in another 4th-quarter disappearing act by LeBron and he'll be blamed for this loss. 36 points on 20 shots or 30 points on 24 shots? 17 points in the 4th quarter versus 4 for LeBron? Durant smote LeBron in Game 1.

someone said he had 4 points on 6 shots in the 4th, which is much worse than 7 on 6 so i felt the need to fix it

The Bulls with a healthy Rose were also better than the Heat.

AJ is right that "blame LeBron" is lazy. But that's America. "Fans" are "fans" for a reason. They are not knowledgable and don't care about the truth. They care about the entertainment.

the bulls with a healthy rose...my problem with this line of thinking is that injuries happen. and in rose's case, they seem to happen often. there is no separating that fact from the quality of the team. we could say that Miami would be better than they appear now if Wade were healthy, and Bosh werent coming off an abdominal strain thats limiting his playing time, and that they wouldve breezed through the playoffs otherwise.

i actually think last years bulls team might have been better than this years. between bogans and taj gibson playing great last year, rip hamilton sucking most of the time and ronnie brewer losing playing time this year...i actually preferred last years team.

As far as Lebron is concerned...ESPN keeps saying "if Lebron has another superstar performance" then the Heat are in good shape. The issue is, superstars shouldn't "maybe" play like superstars on certain days. You either are or you aren't. And he just isn't showing what he should be showing.

see this is what i hate to read...30/9/4 IS a superstar level of play. ESPN is asking for a LEGENDARY performance, but calling it "superstar." he's given us superstar play every night. by mislabeling it they create ridiculous criteria for evaluation and leave the window of returning to the lechoke narrative open should the heat fail miserably.

those brilliant *******s.

Wouldnt mind if the Clippers picked up this guy in the draft:
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/06/13/underrated-draft-prospects-will-barton/

we could use a scoring 6-6 SG.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

People just have ridiculously high expectations for lebron. Rightfuly so with how he is "king James" and the "chosen one" which he himself has embraced, not to mention how he handled his free agency and the whole "not 1, not 2, not 3 etc...." speech

And he IS the most talented person in the NBA right now, great stat sheet stuffer but he could definitely play better and dominate better if he really wanted, I'm with skip with this one (though I'd grade him higher than a c- for game 1)

 

[shadrach kabango]

The issue is, superstars shouldn't "maybe" play like superstars on certain days. You either are or you aren't.

the bulls with a healthy rose...my problem with this line of thinking is that injuries happen. and in rose's case, they seem to happen often. there is no separating that fact from the quality of the team. we could say that Miami would be better than they appear now if Wade were healthy, and Bosh werent coming off an abdominal strain thats limiting his playing time, and that they wouldve breezed through the playoffs otherwise.

i actually think last years bulls team might have been better than this years. between bogans and taj gibson playing great last year, rip hamilton sucking most of the time and ronnie brewer losing playing time this year...i actually preferred last years team.

It's not really a "line of thinking." It was a matter-of-fact statement. This year is the first year Rose played less than 78 games. Your perception is off-kilter.

The "line of thinking" stems from point differential. The Bulls were better by point differential last year and this year. The best team doesn't always win. Variance.

 

[Wumbo105]

see this is what i hate to read...30/9/4 IS a superstar level of play.

It most definitely is not. Sure, the numbers are cool, but you can't just look at that...numbers don't say everything.
If you actually watched the game, Lebron played well. Not great, not bad, but well. A superstar performance is very distinctive. The player takes control of the game, and either wins it all by himself or starts to involve the whole team and initiate a rallying asswhoopin. That's what a superstar does on a normal basis. What Lebron did Tuesday was just something a good player usually does. It should not be hard to see the difference.

I think what's happening is you're downplaying the caliber of a superstar, and overestimating Lebron's stuff because you WANT him to be a superstar, and see what you want to see. Not trying to call u stupid or anything, im just asking you to keep your eyes objective.
Personally, I would consider Lebron a star. Not super tho. Lol.

 

[mood4food77]

you do realize that lebron scoring 30 was below his average for the playoffs?
you realize that what lebron did last night is basically what he gives every night?

while he wasn't as efficient as he usually was in this playoffs, he was still the only threat miami had in the 2nd half, wade was missing EVERYTHING and bosh didn't do anything at all, the other players didn't give out anything, it was seriously lebron trying to keep his team in the game and it just can't happen with a team as fast as the thunder

 

[soap]

Lebron isn't a superstar? **** outta here.

 

[The Real Gamer]

The Bulls with a healthy Rose were also better than the Heat.

Best joke I've heard all day.

EDIT: LOL my bad... THIS is the best joke I've heard all day.

Personally, I would consider Lebron a star. Not super tho. Lol.

Who let the RealGM trolls into Smashboards? Please name your top 5 current NBA players without having LeBron in there. Good luck trying not to sound stupid in the process... I'm waiting.

 

[shadrach kabango]

Best joke I've heard all day.

Vindictive rhetoric mask not the fact that point differential is quite a strong indicator of team strength.

Hollinger:

He'll never be Chris Paul, but steadily he has improved his control on the tiller while also providing a dynamic second scorer. Westbrook has just as many assists with a third fewer turnovers; that shift alone is earning the league's most deadly shooting team nearly two extra shots a game.

The only question now is whether they can keep it up. Miami is much better at forcing mistakes than the Thunder's first three playoff opponents; the Heat were third in opponent turnovers per possession, compared to Dallas (13th), the Lakers (30th) and San Antonio (24th). Alas, the Heat had no more success than the other three foes in Game 1, producing only 10 Thunder turnovers.

The San Antonio series, in particular, is notable; the Spurs were astonished when the Thunder beat them four straight times by making the extra pass, convinced that their stars weren't capable of making it consistently. Oklahoma City's ability to hit its secondary players without turnovers -- encapsulated in Serge Ibaka's 11-of-11 in Game 4 -- turned the series on its head.

Zoom back out to the big picture, and you'll see the results. Cut turnovers on a normal team and it helps. Cut turnovers on a team with the league's highest TS%, and it helps by even more -- every additional shot you get with this team has a much better chance of producing points.

Credit the Thunder for an offensive explosion the likes of which we've rarely witnessed, and credit their sudden U-turn in the turnover department as the cause. And the next time somebody brings it up, remember that offense can win championships, too.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Vindictive rhetoric mask not the fact that point differential is quite a strong indicator of team strength.

So how do you personally assess a team's strength then?

EDIT: Here's an excellent video that breaks down what exactly the Heat were doing wrong both offensively and defensively (which is a lot of stuff): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HENA-e6QELo&feature=player_embedded

Really highlights how poorly coached this team can be at times.

 

[theeboredone]

If we're talking about the point differential when it comes to how much a team wins by, Miami had it the best last year with Chicago second. Series ended in 5. Dallas had 4th best in West, and 8th overall and they won the Finals. Sure it can be a telling tale, but I've always said this...the playoffs are a different beast. When you got superstars on your team, it sort of helps with your playoff run as opposed to not having one.

Unfortunately for Chicago, they lost theirs in Game 1. We also saw how losing a "star" in Bosh made the Heat struggle as well. It took a crazy playoff run from Dirk last year to get them to the Finals. It took a choke job from LBJ for the Mavs to win in 6. Having CP3 arrive in LA propelled them to playoff levels as well. Memphis made their hot run, because Z-Bo was playing like a super-star.

And while the Spurs have a collective team of stars, they were outdoneby ONE superstar.