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Basketball Thread

ViperGold42

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it shouldnt matter
lebron will be hated no matter what he does
he trys hard but that sits alright with me

i just recognize him as he is i have for a long time
a big lug whos trying to grow up and has done some stupid *** things

the only thing i ask is that he improves on and off the court,he stops flopping (you are 6-7 over 240 dont play that ****)

and that he and his team get their *** whooped by boston tonight :)
agreed. The Decision was a bad move. should not have happened.
 

CableCho57

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I think it's just how Lebron is always invvolved in the media that makes everyone hate him. That attention he seems to crave. Remember that tweet about NFL tryouts during the lockout? Or that interview where he mentioned he's open to the idea of returning to Cleveland? And Bored's points as well as the Decision makes eveyone hate him.

Stephen A Smtih said it best when he talked about why Kobe is booed and CHEERED at every single arena.
(freaking Knicks fan were chanting MVP when he scored that MSG record. KNICKS fans.) It's because Kobe doesn't give a crap about what anyone thinks about him and doesn't spend all this time in the media. Man has ice water in his veins and just plays ball. Sure you can argue about who will end up with a better career when its all said and done, but you'll never be able to compare Lebron's killer instinct with Kobe's or Jordan's.
 

soap

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Cleveland, Ohio
I'm from Cleveland, I'm not mad at Lebron, my father really hates him tho.

He says alot of dumb ****, but he's really not a bad guy.


He really doesnt have the same aura of Kobe/Jordan tho.


I'm not rooting for the Heat this year, but I don't care if he wins as long as I see him and wade really stepping up and earning it.
 

The Real Gamer

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my retort to that is, how many rings does he have right now? because his championships will be trash and bashed for years down the road because of what he did, now if he won a championship in Cleveland no one would care that he left because he made a promise (which he in fact broke) that he would win Cleveland a title. But the fact remains this Kobe has done so much with nobodies players (not to bash players like Pau Gasol who was really a nobody in Memphis) and won back to back titles in 2009-10 even after Shaq left. so saying I have no evidence to reach a opinion a sign of ignorance which is no offense to you brother but this, He's not a closer and never will be like MJ and Kobe, untill he can truely close out, he will never win that title unless someone else closes out for himlike D-Wade or maybe (heaven to god) Bosh.
He has 0 and is currently working on his 1st, but it's pretty obvious that you're one of those ring fanatics that will only judge a player based on the amount of championships they have, which is a pretty unfair and inaccurate way of assessing a player's overall talents. IMO you have to take many different aspects and accolades into account such as level of dominance, longevity of said dominance, MVPs, Finals MVPs, raw statistics etc. Also, you claim that Kobe played with "nobodies" and yet those "nobodies" Kobe played with were all far superior teams to what LeBron had in Cleveland. Replace Kobe with LeBron and vice-versa for their first 7 years... Kobe wouldn't be NEARLY as successful as he is now, while LeBron would most likely have at LEAST 2-3 rings. Is Kobe magically worse now or simply a product of unfortunate circumstance? I'd argue the latter.

Also, you claim that LeBron can't close, yet LeBron James was easily one of the best closers in the NBA while he was with Cleveland and statistics prove it. Educate yourself. http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm Not that it really matters though. Everyone here knows how I feel about clutch statistics.

The bottom line is that you can't sit here and claim that I'm the ignorant one when you don't even know how the rest of LBJ's career will pan out. If LeBron goes on to win 2-3 titles and FMVPs who knows how he will be perceived? Claiming he will "never be as good as MJ or Kobe" based on the fact that he lacks rings (so far) and "can't close" (which is just flat out wrong) is just silly and premature.

EDIT: And for the record, I'm a Wade fan first and foremost, but I have no problem admitting that LBJ is the better player despite the fact that he has no rings.
 

CableCho57

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on another note, do you guys know any good basketball games to play?

My friend and I were playing ball yesterday, and the local courts were surprisingly empty. the only games we know are

horse
around the world
21
7 up
knockout
 

Malice Chains

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
429
I'm from Cleveland also and when I lived there I felt the same about him as I do the spurs now. Hate...with...passion.

It's usually the fans that get me. Now I don't care to much for him really...

:phone:
 

theeboredone

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Joined
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on another note, do you guys know any good basketball games to play?

My friend and I were playing ball yesterday, and the local courts were surprisingly empty. the only games we know are

horse
around the world
21
7 up
knockout
5 on 5 > any of that nonsense.

Btw, I think we should clearly establish that any player/athlete will have their haters. They should be disqualified from proving points, unless you are saying they are ignorant and what not. Mainly, my criticisms are about how I feel in regards to him as a person, and how that translates to his play on the court sometimes. I also should note that while a lot of things he does are left to interpretation (like his bike), you have to also wonder...why is he always getting himself in the news, let alone trashed on by his critics on tv? Just stop being an attention *****, and as Barkley's video game says, "Shut up and Jam."
 

Malice Chains

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I wouldnt call it nonsense, you sound kinda stuck up saying that. All those games were fun growing up and still are actually to me, especially knockout.
 

theeboredone

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I wouldnt call it nonsense, you sound kinda stuck up saying that. All those games were fun growing up and still are actually to me, especially knockout.
I just never have interest playing those games when I go to the gym. When I'm on the court, I'm just looking to play 5 on 5. In those other games, people rarely put any effort let alone some of the stuff is not practical for real game situations. I'll admit, Knockout has some benefits (mainly endurance and 3 point shooting), but I only play that when we're all done playing pick up games.

Fun playing when growing up, but now it's just nonsense to me. Doesn't mean I won't play it if I'm with some little kids or whatever...but even if there are 8 of us, we're playing 4 on 4.

21 is one of the least enjoyable games. Especially if there is no free throw limit. The moment I score, I'll hit like 10 FTs in a row.

Overall, this is what I do when I go to play basketball in order of priority.

5 on 5.
4 on 4.
Shoot around by myself and practice certain moves for an hour.
Minigames.
 

The Real Gamer

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Play with energy for 48 minutes... No more of this half ***** first half bull ****. 3 point shooters make your shots. Bosh make some jumpers to space the floor and grab some rebounds that's all we need from you. STOP LETTING RONDO DO WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS. Win Game 5.
 

Malice Chains

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Messages
429
I put alot more effort in 21/33 than I did when playing teams...but then again I like 1vs1 more than teams
 

shadrach kabango

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how so?

metrics are never quite perfect, but i think WinsProduced is the best per minute stat out there
it's actually the worst

it overvalues rebounding and gives zero value to shot creation

for example, in real life any kind of shot attempt is more valuable than a turnover. except not to berri's metric.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=344&t=1037764

The gist of it is that WP has impressive correlation with wins because the *sum* of the stuff it is counting across a team full of players is correlated very strongly to wins. It's basically counting up a teams scoring chances and scoring efficiency and dividing those up among the players. But we have no good way of knowing that it's dividing up those values correctly. As long as the sum total is correct, it will appear to correlate strongly with wins.
Hrm, so one of the extremely bad aspects of WP is that if you are a stat stuffer but a bad defender, the negative impact of your defense is shared among all of your teammates, not just you
It should be rather obvious that the amount of rebounds in a game is somehow connected to the missed shots. He didn't account for that.
there's a whole lot in that thread if you have hours to burn
 

SharkAttack

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NW Ohio
I have to side with Bored to some extent. I would rather play a 5 vs. 5 or 4 vs. 4 full court than play 21, Knockout, Horse or Around the World. Those games are fun and I'll play them, but I like the team aspect of a game that involves strategy and skill more than anything. I've also played soo much 21 and Around the World that I'm just tired of it. I will admit however that I'm craving a game of Knockout, but it's not something I could do for a whole hour like a 5 on 5.

When I go to the park/gym and am alone I tend to just think of how I can be more effective on offense/defense as of late and then practice parts of my game that are more likely to fit situations I will confront in a game as oppose to just shooting around. I'm almost always a forward and will work on plays that attempt to get me open followed by moves where I cut to the basket, fake cutting to the basket and then pass, and then lastly shots I'm most likely to take based on spots I'm generally in. I also think of times I could set picks for guards, but that's more of a gametime situation. There isn't a whole lot for me to practice on defense alone, but I believe positioning is the main thing I have to work on. I'm terrible at rebounding and a lot of times in games I find myself too underneath the basket, which is just bad positioning.

Now I am craving a game of basketball!
 

theeboredone

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Notes from first half.

Physical first half. Pierce and Rondo can't find any shot to go in. It's not like they are super tough shots either. Heat very fortunate, and they better hope it stays that way.

I said Bass had to step up. So far so good.

Halftime...all four guys wearing the same colored suit. Ackward.
 
D

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@kabango thanks ill look through that later. iirc they do have responses to the rebounding criticism, but ive been looking for someone to dispute its validity. ive also been meaning to read stumbling on wins to get a more in depth look at how the metric is built for my own sort of peace of mind regarding potential flaws. what per minute stats do you look at, if any?

i have to say people make a huge mistake when looking at it. it tells us how a team is winning, not why.

but thats no fun so

my take on WP is that its a fantastic measure for grading role players, like kawhi leonard. his job is to catch/shoot and rebound. its a pretty isolated role that i think lends itself well to statistical summary.

for the high usage stars, i like to look at it in context of their role on the team and how much they have to shoot. ill use tony parker for example. wins produced says tony parker was an above average player this year, and an average player this postseason. i along with the rest of the world disagree. it is incredibly difficult to maintain the "average player" efficiency while running around screens and throwing up circus floaters.

the scale for high usage little guys that dont rebound needs to be adjusted to account for this. so i look at parkers .132 wins produced per 48 minutes and say thats probably about as valuable as a role player with a little above a .200 WP48. derrick rose's .187 is probably something like a role player with a .250, while i would leave the bar setters (cp3, lebron, love who are in the low to mid .300s) alone.

basically i think theres far less disparity in skill between high usage stars than a) the disparity in quality of role players around the league and b) wp48 would imply. i mentally adjust for this.

its not meant to say chris paul is 3x better than tony parker, its saying the chris paul is more concretely tied to the clippers creating leads than tony parker is to the spurs' point differential, which i would agree with given how they play (chris paul gogogo vs. 3 point shooting).

_______

im about to blaspheme but heres my opinion on the lebron vs kobe vs jordan stuff. im gonna collapse it, and throw durant into the mix with a TL;DR at the end.

i think MJ is the greatest because he was new type of player. he was efficient. he could score whenever he wanted. he was a superior athlete, yet so fundamentally sound. all of that is great, but there were others before him about which you could say the same thing. what stood out the most is how he changed the way the game is played.

Kobe is not in his class of greatness imo. all time great, definitely, but not MJ level because we've seen it before. i see him as a byproduct of a generation growing up watching MJ and wanting to BE mike. unfortunately, he ended up like mike version 0.83

we've never seen lebron before. we've seen someone similar, but magic wasnt the defender or the scorer, or the rebounder lebron is. we have never seen someone that rebounds and defends as big as a 6'10 power forward, but moves and distributes with the skill of a 6'3" point guard with the scoring abilities of, well, the best small forward we've ever seen.

as far as rings go...kobe and mj were blessed to be drafted into 2 of the biggest markets with 2 of the best GMs in the NBA ever. people forget MJ came up short every year until krause showed up with horace and pippen. add the best rebounder ever, and yeah, youre bound to win a few. kobe had shaq, won, lost shaq, failed, got bynum and gasol, won again. both of these players have had MUCH better teams surrounding him in championship years than lebron has ever had in CLEVELAND. they had the benefit of Phil Jackson, as opposed to Mike Brown and Eric Spoelstra. kobe spends one year with brown, and people are already calling for his head. cmon. LeBron carries like no one weve ever seen (big men aside, though being able to compare a wing's dominance to a big man's speaks volumes in itself) and to say otherwise is just false. unless im forgetting someone. i think chris paul is pretty special too, but thats another conversation.

the next generation of ballers is growing up watching and learning from todays greats like kobe wade lebron and durant. i think we're going to see players that want to do it all not like 'MJ could do it all', but like Lebron who literally does everything. my bets (and hopes) are on this guy and durant to bring back the kind of unselfish team ball we saw in the 80s. and when the game shifts back towards unselfish play, i think we'll be able to point to lebron and say that was the guy, with Durant right there next to him. and thats as great as it gets.

TL;DR lebron/durant are the new magic/bird, only theyre probably better than both of their counterparts. they are both comparable to jordan statistically at this point in jordans career, but their greatness should measured not by stats, rings, or clutch play, but by the impact they have on coming generations.

its just too soon to compare, but i dont think itll be as absurd as some think when its all said and done.
 

Jane

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i would say 5v5 or 4v4 is my favorite to play. especially lately that my endurance has increased so much, its fun to try and just out-energy people.

then 2v2, then 1v1, then three-for-alls. knockout is fun like bored said after a good ball session. around the world is boring to me, but i do play it when other want to.
 

theeboredone

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I wish LA had Boston's heart. Rondo is/has restablished himself as the best PG in the game. Once again, last minute execution failed for Miami. Blame Spo for that.

Bosh only played 15 minutes? Listen, I know he just came back, but this is your season on the line. Broussard reported that sources said his target time was 25 minutes. Put him in! He could make KG work. I also loved how he got the crowd pumped up with his emotion. Every team needs that guy.

I'm gonna go on a limb and say Heat win Game 6. Wade will be amazing, and I will bet on LBJ to be great as well. Bosh will get more minutes, but sadly, it will come down to the roleplayers. They sucked tonight.

EDIT: LBJ and Wade not on the podium again. They just don't like talking to the media after losses? Wade seems to enjoy smiling when he loses.

Also, while I said Thibs should have won COTY, you guys laughed at me for also recommending Doc Rivers. Laugh more.
 

Masmasher@

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its funny i been saying that wade whines and needs to get his *** back on defense for plays and spo has been riding on talent hes a novice coach

all these things are rearing their ugly head

boston has now outplayed the heat 4 games
it will be great to see the media make a story out of another possible finals matchup

bosh played really well and the sad thing is that he seemed separate from the heat
the team didnt really even embrace him fully or try to help get him going

boston has more unity.
 

theeboredone

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You bring up a big point. I think it was Legler or Magic who said that everytime you saw Boston go into the huddle, people were high fiving, hugging, etc. Hell, on the last possession, KG yanked Pietrus' arm and put it into the huddle for the "Defense on 5" or w/e they do cause Pietrus wasn't paying attention.

Meanwhile, Heat bench? People standing around. Sitting....just no team unity.


Edit: Some random stuff...

1. Wade with that horrible fashion sense.




2. Apparently, Bosh's masseuse that was helping him recover died the day before Game 5. What a tough spot to step into.
Bosh, the Heat's All-Star center, returned to action Tuesday after missing the previous nine playoff games with the injury he sustained May 13 in Game 1 of the conference seminal series against the Indiana Pacers. The loss to Boston only added to what already was a heavy emotional burden for Bosh, who played Tuesday's game just one day after the masseuse who aided in his recovery collapsed in his Miami Beach home Monday and later died in a hospital.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
yeah i think someone posted uncle drew a while back. great stuff.

me and my friends play this game called beans

its a shooting competition. the game works by shooting free throws or 3s. pot starts at 5 beans. make a shot: add 5 to the pot. miss a shot, get the pot. first to 100 beans loses. there are variations including more severe punishments for airballs or missing rim or whatever. you can mess with the ante and increments as you please.

its good when theres a few of us, we're tired, and just wanna shoot around after a game. also good for warm up.
_____

i cant believe the heat are facing elimination IN boston. thats a tough game to win.

Rondo's quote going into the half in game 4 was awesome, and speaks loads about the heat
"Rajon, what holes in the Heat's D are you exploiting?"
"Them complaining to the refs in transition."

tongue in cheek but seriously. STFU and play the damn game like its supposed to be played and they might actually win.

props to Garnett. great game. that guy has been ****ing KILLER in late game this series. i wanna hear some vintage Garnett talk. he's even older than Timmy. or at the very least hes got more miles on him.

i just noticed Joel Anthony got no playing time due to coach's decision. WHY

rajon finally has a raon day. of course every other celtic gets off.

crazy times.

EDIT: i lol'd at that Wade gif. baby wants a shiny whistle.
 

Jane

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I dreamt that I met dwade and he gave me his number, and an alternate number in case I couldn't reach him at the original number. Lol. I remember thinking I struck gold because I have a friend that's literally obsessed with him.
 

theeboredone

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Okay, I have one big criticism for LeBron, and it's typical of him to do so.

In the final 8 minutes...LeBron went 1/4...with that one make being that layup the Celtics essentially gave up in the final seconds.
 
D

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vipergold's posts...

thunder vs celtics is your dream matchup?

what the hell

damn it lebron. i keep trying to defend him but cmon 4 shots? i seriously think its fatigue or something from playing so hard on D and running the court for 45 minutes a game. i dont understand.
 

shadrach kabango

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i like the chances of both the spurs and heat to take it in 7. the thunder are lucksacking. the celtics just aren't a better team than the heat. to me it feels like they haven't been trying as hard as they were earlier in the season, even. maybe they're tired. even so playing bosh a full complement of minutes will result in a win margin of at least 5 points. celtics are notoroiously good on road but vulnerable at home. i'm repeating that from a memory source i can't pinpoint so the margin of error on that last statement is significant.
 

theeboredone

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The Celtics are now 9-0 in Game 5 since the Big 3 + Rondo were formed back in 2008. 2 of those games were on the road.

Miami is 1-14 in their appearances in Boston.
 
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