Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[3BitSaurus]

Yo, random thought: what other "Never ever" characters that got into Smash can I add to my signature? I realized I forgot Villager with "too peaceful".

Any others I'm skipping?

 

[NintenRob]

So I caved and bought Yooka Laylee. Haven't played it yet because it's still Downloading. Hopefully I'm not too dissapointed.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yo, random thought: what other "Never ever" characters that got into Smash can I add to my signature? I realized I forgot Villager with "too peaceful".

Any others I'm skipping?

Both AC reps should be considered too peaceful.

Also: "Third party companies/series can only have one rep"

 

[3BitSaurus]

Both AC reps should be considered too peaceful.

Also: "Third party companies/series can only have one rep"

Yeah, but that fanrule was broken with Villager in Smash 4, way before Isabelle in Ultimate. Heck, I'd say she was pretty much expected, given AC's popularity and Villager being in.

Also, for the second one... would that be Richter, Ken or both?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also, for the second one... would that be Richter, Ken or both?

Both them and their original fighters, as some people thought we'd only get one character from Konami and Capcom.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Both them and their original fighters, as some people thought we'd only get one character from Konami and Capcom.

Hmm, yeah. I'm trying to associate the phrases with characters that broke that specific rule - more than one if it was in a single game. Guess I'll use both.

Ooh, maybe Hero? I'm not sure if his would be "unpopular in the west" or "legal reasons".

So I caved and bought Yooka Laylee. Haven't played it yet because it's still Downloading. Hopefully I'm not too dissapointed.

Eh, it's not the Banjo successor most of us wanted, but it's far from an awful product. While I had some problems with the physics and level design, I was able to enjoy YL for what it is, in the end.

If they make another, I hope they take more inspiration from Tooie.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, in the meantime, Playtonic are doing their own DKC-alike with the next Yooka-Laylee.

Yo, random thought: what other "Never ever" characters that got into Smash can I add to my signature? I realized I forgot Villager with "too peaceful".

Any others I'm skipping?

Well, there is probably "ATs can't get in". I don't remember if anyone ever said that back then, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[GolisoPower]

Yo, random thought: what other "Never ever" characters that got into Smash can I add to my signature? I realized I forgot Villager with "too peaceful".

Any others I'm skipping?

Here's another category to add for Banjo-Kazooie: "No franchises not made in Japan". Banjo-Kazooie was a British video game, and with them added, any nationality of game company can join Smash. Swedish, American, French, any video game character made from anywhere on the planet can join!

 

[PSIGuy]

I guess the next threshold to break is "no Western characters without heavy Japanese origins". Banjo-Kazooie was a Nintendo franchise and is still largely seen as one (heck, even the devs acknowledge "they're home"). Something like Doom Guy getting in when it's Western owned, Western made and only got later releases on Japanese consoles would be big.

 

[Dinoman96]

Well, in the meantime, Playtonic are doing their own DKC-alike with the next Yooka-Laylee.



Well, there is probably "ATs can't get in". I don't remember if anyone ever said that back then, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Which is weird because even before Little Mac, that was already disproven, as Charizard was an assist character in 64 and Melee before becoming playable in Brawl and onward.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Which is weird because even before Little Mac, that was already disproven, as Charizard was an assist character in 64 and Melee before becoming playable in Brawl and onward.

Well, you know how it is. Newer folks don't recognize an altered version of an existing concept (see: spirits for trophies and stickers).

I guess the next threshold to break is "no Western characters without heavy Japanese origins". Banjo-Kazooie was a Nintendo franchise and is still largely seen as one (heck, even the devs acknowledge "they're home"). Something like Doom Guy getting in when it's Western owned, Western made and only got later releases on Japanese consoles would be big.

Darn, and here I thought there wasn't any boundary to break with third parties at this point. Not that any detractor would usually think of "West with Japanese links".

As unlikely as he is, Earthworm Jim would be perfect for this, considering that his series openly competed with DKC back in the day.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Which is weird because even before Little Mac, that was already disproven, as Charizard was an assist character in 64 and Melee before becoming playable in Brawl and onward.

The difference is Charizard became playable after Melee and Little Mac became playable after Brawl so there is logic behind it. I have never seen anyone say that Assist Trophies will never become characters, just that Assist Trophies can't both be that and a playable character in the same game.

 

[Daybreak]

I'd say he has potential. I really think using different blocks and items to attack could be fun, as well as manipulating the environment. This is a pretty good video showing off what I mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akMjMxXEpTY

Yeah I've seen that video before, it's not bad. I know that he has potential for a decent moveset. It just seemed funny that the troll post was acting like Banjo & Kazooie didn't have any potential when literally all of their moves from their games could work. I'm not against the idea of having Steve. Was just stating that it feels like you could cut and paste Banjo & Kazooie's moves into smash while Steve would take some work-shopping.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Yeah I've seen that video before, it's not bad. I know that he has potential for a decent moveset. It just seemed funny that the troll post was acting like Banjo & Kazooie didn't have any potential when literally all of their moves from their games could work. I'm not against the idea of having Steve. Was just stating that it feels like you could cut and paste Banjo & Kazooie's moves into smash while Steve would take some work-shopping.

Oh I agree that petition was hilariously flawed.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I have never seen anyone say that Assist Trophies will never become characters, just that Assist Trophies can't both be that and a playable character in the same game.

Interestingly enough, that assumption has yet to become broken. I assume the only reason the AT pattern is kept is because the staff would prefer to devote resources on including as many characters as possible, without necessarily needing to "upgrade" those that serve a support role in the current iteration.

 

[Organization XIII]

Interestingly enough, that assumption has yet to become broken. I assume the only reason the AT pattern is kept is because the staff would prefer to devote resources on including as many characters as possible, without necessarily needing to "upgrade" those that serve a support role in the current iteration.

Well to be fair it isn't even really a pattern yet. We've only ever had one game with DLC so no upgrades has really only happened once. People are just quick to assume things. Like when Roy was cut and we got Ike and so even though it only happened the one time everyone thought Ike would be cut in 4 and replaced with Chrom.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well to be fair it isn't even really a pattern yet. We've only ever had one game with DLC so no upgrades has really only happened once. People are just quick to assume things. Like when Roy was cut and we got Ike and so even though it only happened the one time everyone thought Ike would be cut in 4 and replaced with Chrom.

Until further notice, we currently don't have any room for promotions unless the big guys plan more DLC. Before then, people will continue to generally assume we'll just have brand-new third-parties as newcomers. And I'm almost certain the leak with Frisk and Waluigi is fake, even if I wouldn't mind it.

 

[Organization XIII]

Until further notice, we currently don't have any room for promotions unless the big guys plan more DLC. Before then, people will continue to generally assume we'll just have brand-new third-parties as newcomers. And I'm almost certain the leak with Frisk and Waluigi is fake, even if I wouldn't mind it.

We still have 2 characters left and with zero leads at the moment as to who they might be so that's already plenty of space for promotion. As for future DLC that's got a 99% of happening anyways so again it's not a pattern. Will we see a promotion in this pass? Likely no but still nothing preventing it or making it a pattern for DLC.

 

[Dinoman96]

The difference is Charizard became playable after Melee and Little Mac became playable after Brawl so there is logic behind it. I have never seen anyone say that Assist Trophies will never become characters, just that Assist Trophies can't both be that and a playable character in the same game.

I recall some people during the early Smash 4 days saying exactly that, though. I remember some people said that Palutena couldn't be in because "isn't she already Pit's FS?"...even though you could just, you know, change it from Brawl lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

Like when Roy was cut and we got Ike and so even though it only happened the one time everyone thought Ike would be cut in 4 and replaced with Chrom.

That wasn't even supposed to be the case in Brawl, since Roy was among the Forbidden Seven.

I recall some people during the early Smash 4 days saying exactly that, though. I remember some people said that Palutena couldn't be in because "isn't she already Pit's FS?"...even though you could just, you know, change it from Brawl lol

Now we have proof that you wouldn't even need to change the FS.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I recall some people during the early Smash 4 days saying exactly that, though. I remember some people said that Palutena couldn't be in because "isn't she already Pit's FS?"...even though you could just, you know, change it from Brawl lol

Palutena was never an Assist Trophy though and even then she was promoted to a character in Smash 4 after being a Final Smash in Brawl. We know assist trophies can be promoted in the next game but we haven't seen an Assist Trophy being promoted as a Fighter in the same game yet.

Now we have proof that you wouldn't even need to change the FS.

I assume that nothing was changed either because they couldn't think of another suitable Final Smash for the Robins or they just didn't have enough time or couldn't find another character to replace Chrom.

 

[Jurae818]

One month later and it's still surreal that this isn't a dream.

I may be late to the party, but I'll bring this particular article up which I'm sure has been posted here before but I wanted to give my take on it. Kirkhope mentioned that Nintendo was surprised at the reaction to Banjo-Kazooie and the first thing that came to mind was that other rumor last year relating to King K. Rool's inclusion and reaction. I've been saying for five years and going now that Sakurai and Nintendo have been out of touch with their fans when it comes to Smash and overall with Nintendo since the Wii that they've been out of touch with their fans and those two claims aren't surprising to me. Smash Four to me has always been the low point of the series with how many fan favorites became assist trophies, the amount of marketing picks over fan picks and the overall attitude of Sakurai himself, mainly with his tidbit on Mega Man's reveal in 2013.

"I'm not going to let just anybody in Smash Bros."

That line only recently resonated with me when I went back to Smash Four's reveals and interviews and it showed how deep Sakurai was in his own bubble. I don't know if it was Iwata who suggested that ballot or if it was Sakurai, something tells me it was Iwata given his actual ability to speak English and have a connection to the English-speaking fandom but that ballot is now showing its fruit, first with K. Rool and now with Banjo. Something told me that Iwata again knew people were not happy with Smash Four's roster and I think a recent column in Famitsu with Sakurai mentioned Iwata telling him to make Ultimate before he passed away. I don't know about you, but that speaks to me in more ways than one and really makes me respect how much he cared. I'd even wager Furukawa himself was the one who made the list Sakurai picked the DLC reps from. That ballot was a double edged sword; it's made some fandoms and fanbases very rabid with their wants and has caused a lot of strife with people wanting certain characters to fail and on the other hand I'm betting it was crucial in Banjo-Kazooie coming to Smash Bros. A shame Iwata couldn't live to see the reactions. The man was a mastermind.

I still have my issues with Sakurai, don't get me wrong. I'm happy with Ultimate but I won't start blindly praising the man. I didn't have that mindset with K. Rool and I won't have it with Banjo-Kazooie. All this shows me is that Sakurai needs his arm twisted just as much as he did with the 3rd parties when planning Ultimate. Fans shouldn't have to shout and scream just to get a third rep for a series, let alone a character period. Hopefully this will be the start of a new status quo with Smash Bros. but more importantly Nintendo and certain series and fan demands overall.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Smash Four to me has always been the low point of the series with how many fan favorites became assist trophies, the amount of marketing picks over fan picks and the overall attitude of Sakurai himself, mainly with his tidbit on Mega Man's reveal in 2013.

"I'm not going to let just anybody in Smash Bros."

I don’t see why a lack of big fan favorite picks would be a bad thing. While Ultimate had a lot more fan favorite fighters, Smash 4’s focus seemed to be to bring over lots of 3rd party representation, which is good for the series, and for sales. I do agree that some of the picks were kinda lame, but at the end of the day it’s a new, unique fighter. Saying that they went with marketing picks over fan picks does seem a bit inaccurate. On the marketing side, we got characters like Corrin, Palutena, and Wii Fit Trainer, while for fan picks we got characters such as Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Ryu.

Also, I doubt that Sakurai saying "I'm not going to let just anybody in Smash Bros." was supposed to be disrespectful or rude to any fans of a fighter. All this is saying is that not everyone can get in.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

"Come on Nintendo! Bring back the Wii Fit series"

Sentences that you will never hear people say.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I don’t see why a lack of big fan favorite picks would be a bad thing. While Ultimate had a lot more fan favorite fighters, Smash 4’s focus seemed to be to bring over lots of 3rd party representation, which is good for the series, and for sales. I do agree that some of the picks were kinda lame, but at the end of the day it’s a new, unique fighter. Saying that they went with marketing picks over fan picks does seem a bit inaccurate. On the marketing side, we got characters like Corrin, Palutena, and Wii Fit Trainer, while for fan picks we got characters such as Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Ryu.

Also, I doubt that Sakurai saying "I'm not going to let just anybody in Smash Bros." was supposed to be disrespectful or rude to any fans of a fighter. All this is saying is that not everyone can get in.

Hmm, while I don't necessarily agree with everything on the original post, it has some points. The examples you gave for marketing picks were all 1st party, while the fan favorites were all 3rd party. The closest we got for a fan demand 1st party character in Smash 4 was Little Mac, and even then, we all know how he was received in Japan.

While I personally like most of 4's newcomers... I do think there is something to be said about how all of the hype picks were guest characters.

 

[ze9]

Bomberman is still one of the best choices for new 3d party characters (maybe THE best choice). I think promotions will only happen if there's a second pass, but in that case, I don't think him already being an assist trophy is going to stop him.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Hmm, while I don't necessarily agree with everything on the original post, it has some points. The examples you gave for marketing picks were all 1st party, while the fan favorites were all 3rd party. The closest we got for a fan demand 1st party character in Smash 4 was Little Mac, and even then, we all know how he was received in Japan.

While I personally like most of 4's newcomers... I do think there is something to be said about how all of the hype picks were guest characters.

I certainly agree, it does have some points, just I don’t necessarily agree with every one.

Also, I’m assuming all of the 1st party picks were all marketing picks because it would be advertising Nintendo’s products, while the 3rd party picks are catered towards bigger fans of the series, and it isn’t necessarily advertising the opposing companies product too much, as characters such as Mega Man and Pac-Man haven’t had a new game in a while. It seems like the roster was decided on the foundation of “How can we advertise our games, but also add fan picks without strengthening the competition too much?”

 

[DMTN]

Smash 4's roster is the most divisive one by far. Some like the surprise newcomers, some don't. For me and all of my friends, the roster was so unattractive that we just skipped the game. These were our biggest problems with the characters:

- A lot of newcomers were too recent/unknown and felt like advertisements.
- Way too many gimmick characters. These are often one-dimensional and force you to play in a certain way. I was rooting for Little Mac back in the day, until it was revealed that he would be in this category.

Luckily, Ultimate managed to pull most of them back, because the roster had more all-stars and normal characters.
I'm not ragging on anyone who likes Smash 4's roster. It admittedly had a few cool newcomers. But it shouldn't be difficult to understand why some people dislike it.

 

[ze9]

Smash 4's newcomers were really bad.
On their own, nobody was particularly offensive or undeserving, but as a whole it just didn't work. It was really lacking in fan-favorites, half of them shared the same art style, they were all recent and/or unconventional and the movesets were way too gimmicky. Glad they toned those down in Ultimate.

On the bright side, the 3rd party characters were all great, and the Villager and Little Mac are essential characters in a Nintendo crossover, imho. Duck Hunt, too, kind of.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

The Hero maybe dropping tonight! With eShop maintenance happening tonight! Then, I predict the trailer also shows Banjo & Kazooie's release date!

 

[ze9]

I hope the heroes drop soon. I really need those 2 hours of dumb fun when you're trying a new character.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

The Hero maybe dropping tonight! With eShop maintenance happening tonight! Then, I predict the trailer also shows Banjo & Kazooie's release date!

I’m not betting on it, but Hero could drop tonight. As for a Banjo release date? I doubt we will be getting that.

 

[Deleted member]

I just want to put Eight/Guv next to Samus already.

Thankfully Ultimate Alliance 3 and real life stuff is killing the wait for me pretty well.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

I’m not betting on it, but Hero could drop tonight. As for a Banjo release date? I doubt we will be getting that.

Why did you make me sad?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Why did you make me sad?

I’m not trying to make anyone sad I’m stating my opinion.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I certainly agree, it does have some points, just I don’t necessarily agree with every one.

Also, I’m assuming all of the 1st party picks were all marketing picks because it would be advertising Nintendo’s products, while the 3rd party picks are catered towards bigger fans of the series, and it isn’t necessarily advertising the opposing companies product too much, as characters such as Mega Man and Pac-Man haven’t had a new game in a while. It seems like the roster was decided on the foundation of “How can we advertise our games, but also add fan picks without strengthening the competition too much?”

That's all true, but even then that balance could have been done with the first parties too...

all came from relatively recent series or, in Bowser Jr. and Rosalina's case, were characters Nintendo was pushing at the time. The Miis and Wii Fit Trainer represented important aspects/series of the former console (Wii). Some, like Greninja and the Fire Emblem characters, were blatant advertisement picks. The Kid Icarus ones... had a hint of developer bias.

That's not to say they were "objectively" bad characters or anything. But the fact that most of the first party newcomers are in this group is telling.

were retro picks, but neither were "top dogs", pun intended, in terms of fan demand. Especially Little Mac, who was received poorly by the japanese community. This is literally 2/13 first party characters who weren't in the recent/advertisement group.

That leaves . It's very clear that even the most popular first parties of Smash 4 can't compare to these five in terms of hype. Sure, guest characters are pretty much always hype in fighting games, but... in Smash 4, they very much overshadowed the rest of the newcomers.

The Hero maybe dropping tonight! With eShop maintenance happening tonight! Then, I predict the trailer also shows Banjo & Kazooie's release date!

I think Hero could come this week, though not necessarily tonight, because we probably will get a patch for the new amiibo before they drop on the 26th. No better time than now.

Some people keep saying it will be at EVO, but... Nintendo never does anything at EVO and the Hero(es) seemed pretty much done, by their trailer. I don't think there is much reason to delay them further.

Also... I really doubt we'll get Banjo's release date this soon if Joker was pretty much shadowdropped and they're making an effort to hide the Hero's release date.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

That's all true, but even then that balance could have been done with the first parties too...

all came from relatively recent series or, in Bowser Jr. and Rosalina's case, were characters Nintendo was pushing at the time. The Miis and Wii Fit Trainer represented important aspects/series of the former console (Wii). Some, like Greninja and the Fire Emblem characters, were blatant advertisement picks. The Kid Icarus ones... had a hint of developer bias.

Being from a relatively recent series doesn’t exactly mean that it is 100% a marketing pick. I can see characters such as Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and Villager just being there since people liked them.

 

[DMTN]

Doesn't Nintendo do maintenance every Monday?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Being from a relatively recent series doesn’t exactly mean that it is 100% a marketing pick. I can see characters such as Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and Villager just being there since people liked them.

Yeah, I specifically singled out the Pokémon and FE characters as such. Villager is from a series that is as much of a necessity as Splatoon was for Ultimate and Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were featured in recent titles by the time 4 came out. Both received a heavy presence push by Nintendo (though not necessarily a marketing one, not sure if I'm making myself very clear here).

The point is that they were all either very recent successful IPs, or their games were being marketed heavily in some way, with these characters making the bulk of newcomers, not many fan favorites in sight.

 

[MisterMike]

Hey all. I've been lurking in this thread since I saw PapaGeno's video on the Banjo-Kazooie merch, and I've gotta say, it's been one hell of a ride. I'm still absolutely floored that we've finally got Banjo & Kazooie in Smash. I always thought it would happen eventually, but it still seemed so unlikely, even when the Shinobi stuff came out. As sappy as this sounds, I want to say thank you to all of you guys in this thread. Your near constant posting and speculating, both in support of and in doubt, in the lead up to and after the reveal has been a great read.
(I don't suppose you could still put me on the support list, eh?)

The Hero maybe dropping tonight! With eShop maintenance happening tonight! Then, I predict the trailer also shows Banjo & Kazooie's release date!

Here's hoping. Honestly, I think our best bet for a July release is either this Wednesday, Friday, or Saturday. If not, then we're getting him in August guarenteed.