Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[TheCJBrine]

I believe we could be getting Hero on the 31st, but if we get him in August then probably after EVO.

 

[Justin Little]

One month later and it's still surreal that this isn't a dream.

I may be late to the party, but I'll bring this particular article up which I'm sure has been posted here before but I wanted to give my take on it. Kirkhope mentioned that Nintendo was surprised at the reaction to Banjo-Kazooie and the first thing that came to mind was that other rumor last year relating to King K. Rool's inclusion and reaction. I've been saying for five years and going now that Sakurai and Nintendo have been out of touch with their fans when it comes to Smash and overall with Nintendo since the Wii that they've been out of touch with their fans and those two claims aren't surprising to me. Smash Four to me has always been the low point of the series with how many fan favorites became assist trophies, the amount of marketing picks over fan picks and the overall attitude of Sakurai himself, mainly with his tidbit on Mega Man's reveal in 2013.

"I'm not going to let just anybody in Smash Bros."

That line only recently resonated with me when I went back to Smash Four's reveals and interviews and it showed how deep Sakurai was in his own bubble. I don't know if it was Iwata who suggested that ballot or if it was Sakurai, something tells me it was Iwata given his actual ability to speak English and have a connection to the English-speaking fandom but that ballot is now showing its fruit, first with K. Rool and now with Banjo. Something told me that Iwata again knew people were not happy with Smash Four's roster and I think a recent column in Famitsu with Sakurai mentioned Iwata telling him to make Ultimate before he passed away. I don't know about you, but that speaks to me in more ways than one and really makes me respect how much he cared. I'd even wager Furukawa himself was the one who made the list Sakurai picked the DLC reps from. That ballot was a double edged sword; it's made some fandoms and fanbases very rabid with their wants and has caused a lot of strife with people wanting certain characters to fail and on the other hand I'm betting it was crucial in Banjo-Kazooie coming to Smash Bros. A shame Iwata couldn't live to see the reactions. The man was a mastermind.

I still have my issues with Sakurai, don't get me wrong. I'm happy with Ultimate but I won't start blindly praising the man. I didn't have that mindset with K. Rool and I won't have it with Banjo-Kazooie. All this shows me is that Sakurai needs his arm twisted just as much as he did with the 3rd parties when planning Ultimate. Fans shouldn't have to shout and scream just to get a third rep for a series, let alone a character period. Hopefully this will be the start of a new status quo with Smash Bros. but more importantly Nintendo and certain series and fan demands overall.

When it comes to Banjo and K. Rool, I think it has to do with Nintendo being out of touch with the legacy RARE left behind more than anything. With K. Rool and Banjo in Smash, Super Mario Odyssey referencing various RARE DKC characters, and the Donkey Kong DLC for Mario+Rabbids, Nintendo has been actively receptive than they have ever been when comes to RARE. I just hope with all of these cameos and references there is something big coming for us nostalgic RARE fans. We still don't have a new DKC for the Switch yet, and I think the series is due for a new 3D entry. With Banjo in Smash and RARE cooperating with Nintendo, a sequel to Diddy Kong Racing might actually be possible with the original cast. Of course, I can't leave out the possibility of a new Banjo if this partnership can pick up steam beyond Smash. Then you have all of the other RARE properties like Killer Instinct, Perfect Dark, Battletoads, etc. that I can see being extremely popular titles for Switch owners if they were to be ported over.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

Hey all. I've been lurking in this thread since I saw PapaGeno's video on the Banjo-Kazooie merch, and I've gotta say, it's been one hell of a ride. I'm still absolutely floored that we've finally got Banjo & Kazooie in Smash. I always thought it would happen eventually, but it still seemed so unlikely, even when the Shinobi stuff came out. As sappy as this sounds, I want to say thank you to all of you guys in this thread. Your near constant posting and speculating, both in support of and in doubt, in the lead up to and after the reveal has been a great read.
(I don't suppose you could still put me on the support list, eh?)

Here's hoping. Honestly, I think our best bet for a July release is either this Wednesday, Friday, or Saturday. If not, then we're getting him in August guarenteed.

No! Then we have to wait till October or November for Banjo! I waited this long, I am not waiting any longer!

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

No! Then we have to wait till October or November for Banjo! I waited this long, I am not waiting any longer!

Frankly, I'd rather wait to get a finished fighter instead of getting a rushed fighter earlier. Let's just wait for him to be finished, he'll come eventually.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Frankly, I'd rather wait to get a finished fighter instead of getting a rushed fighter earlier. Let's just wait for him to be finished, he'll come eventually.

We've waited 20 years. We can wait until fall. Let's just hope Hero comes with some good content in the meantime.

Besides, I don't think we'll have to wait untill the very end of fall... for the most part of what we saw in the trailer, progress seems to be going nicely for the bear and bird.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Smash 4 was pretty much the snowballed accumulation of Nintendo's casual era and Sakurai's side pet project (It's a wonder that people want Sakurai to do something other than Smash after Ultimate's done, seeing how fans reacted the last time he did just that and ended up influencing Smash. ), causing a proverbial avalanche once people knew about many of the characters that were accepted. Corrin was the hair that broke the camel's back.

It's fortunate that Sakurai is willing to make up for some past mistakes by approving a new entry in such short order, even if some blood sacrifices had to be made in the process (RIP Smash Run). The staff even had to willingly pass over characters that are too recent, to help make the roster more balanced in regards to both commercial picks and fan demands.

Being from a relatively recent series doesn’t exactly mean that it is 100% a marketing pick. I can see characters such as Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and Villager just being there since people liked them.

The same goes for Isabelle and Incineroar (whose entire point is BEING a heel anyway).

Frankly, I'd rather wait to get a finished fighter instead of getting a rushed fighter earlier. Let's just wait for him to be finished, he'll come eventually.

Same. People moving the goalpost for Hero's release is already silly enough.

We've waited 20 years. We can wait until fall. Let's just hope Hero comes with some good content in the meantime.

Besides, I don't think we'll have to wait untill the very end of fall... for the most part of what we saw in the trailer, progress seems to be going nicely for the bear and bird.

On that note, if the duo was to get out in November, it really wouldn't give much time left to work with for the other two characters in the pass before the deadline anyway.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't think Banjo and Kazooie will take any longer than October, otherwise they won't have the time to release the last two characters and reveal them somewhere in November. Giving enough time for the 4th character to be released in December and the final character in February.

 

[ze9]

In my opinion Villager was one of the few Smash 4 newcomers that legitimately felt like a Brawl/Ultimate newcomer.
Back in the Brawl days, his absence felt as jarring as Ridley or K. Rool's absence from Smash 4, even more since Animal Crossing was already one of Nintendo's biggest properties and it still got a stage and a boatload of trophies... but no playable character.
The issue was just more overlooked because Brawl delivered a lot of goods anyways.

Smash 4's first 1-2 punch of was pretty great, actually. It all started to go downhill just a few hours later, though...

 

[Talazar]

I can understand people being mad at (even as a big kid icarus fan i was upset) but at least was unique and still is in ultimate, but maybe i'm just bias since I like Palutena.

 

[3BitSaurus]

In my opinion Villager was one of the few Smash 4 newcomers that legitimately felt like a Brawl/Ultimate newcomer.
Back in the Brawl days, his absence felt as jarring as Ridley or K. Rool's absence from Smash 4, even more since Animal Crossing was already one of Nintendo's biggest properties and it still got a stage and a boatload of trophies... but no playable character.
The issue was just more overlooked because Brawl delivered a lot of goods anyways.

Smash 4's first 1-2 punch of was pretty great, actually. It all started to go downhill just a few hours later, though...

To wrap up my earlier thoughts on this: all other Smash games after 64 had a nice balance between older, staple characters and recent stars as newcomers:

Melee had as popular characters, even if Falco and Ganondorf were originally introduced as semiclones, then as gimmicky picks (remember, FE had never been released in the west prior to Melee, but Nintendo convinced Sakurai to do so - if memory serves, with the exact intention of trying to promote the series over here) and finally as semiclones to pad the roster.

Brawl had as the old-school favorites, then for current relevancy and as niche retro picks. All in all, one of the best selections for its time.

Now, Ultimate went with and technically as newer picks, as older fan favorites and padded the roster with , who are all kind of in-between (though we know Chrom and Dark Samus were fan-picked, at least). Also a very balanced selection.

Smash 4 was very one-sided when you think about it. Again, I personally don't dislike most of its characters, even if I don't play most of them, but... I can see why some people who wanted other retro or "non-relevant" picks were dissatisfied outside of Punch-Out fans, mostly.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, some new Japanese fan art for Rare love came up again, and this time it's Kazooie being Kazooie.

色塗った。そして回収。 pic.twitter.com/kDuuaswibi

— 胡麻塩色 (@Iro_Gomasio) July 16, 2019

I can understand people being mad at (even as a big kid icarus fan i was upset) but at least was unique and still is in ultimate, but maybe i'm just bias since I like Palutena.

At least I'm glad that she doesn't use custom moves as a crutch anymore, so that she gets to shine with the buffs she got~

Also, smart move to keep DP as an Echo, I would not have felt comfortable with the idea of him preceding Medusa or other gods in relevance as an unique.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I can understand people being mad at (even as a big kid icarus fan i was upset) but at least was unique and still is in ultimate, but maybe i'm just bias since I like Palutena.

Honestly I'm not too upset with Dark Pit. He was a quick and easy addition, they didn't have to sacrifice too much time and money into making him.

 

[CosmicQuark]

No! Then we have to wait till October or November for Banjo! I waited this long, I am not waiting any longer!

I've been waiting for 20 years for Banjo & Kazooie to be in Smash--I feel like I can wait just a few months from now. Banjo & Kazooie... in Smash... this year. It's a dream come true.

 

[SmashKeks]

We've waited 20 years. We can wait until fall. Let's just hope Hero comes with some good content in the meantime.

Besides, I don't think we'll have to wait untill the very end of fall... for the most part of what we saw in the trailer, progress seems to be going nicely for the bear and bird.

Next smash direct
Sakurai: I'm very sorry to inform you that Banjo-Kazooie will be delayed until October 2022, as we are working very hard to balance their frame 1 forward Smash that covers half the length of final destination and does 50% on its' sour spot.

 

[SneakyLink]

Next smash direct
Sakurai: I'm very sorry to inform you that Banjo-Kazooie will be delayed until October 2022, as we are working very hard to balance their frame 1 forward Smash that covers half the length of final destination and does 50% on its' sour spot.

If that’s how much it does on sour spot, I’d hate to see how much it does on sweet spot.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Next smash direct
Sakurai: I'm very sorry to inform you that Banjo-Kazooie will be delayed until October 2022, as we are working very hard to balance their frame 1 forward Smash that covers half the length of final destination and does 50% on its' sour spot.

(Sweet spot only does 12%)
Sakurai: Where did we go so wrong?!

 

[3BitSaurus]

Next smash direct
Sakurai: I'm very sorry to inform you that Banjo-Kazooie will be delayed until October 2022, as we are working very hard to balance their frame 1 forward Smash that covers half the length of final destination and does 50% on its' sour spot.

"We've also been notified of a bug where Banjo and Kazooie being unlocked causes Duck Hunt to be deleted from the game, so we'll need 6 months to fix that at least."

 

[Guynamednelson]

The same goes for Isabelle and Incineroar (whose entire point is BEING a heel anyway).

Isabelle, definitely. However, Incineroar was not chosen without considering who was actually popular.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Isabelle, definitely. However, Incineroar was not chosen without considering who was actually popular.

In any case, as far as Pokémon goes TPC generally hopes that whoever they advertise in particular at the moment gets picked for Smash. They just happen to be lucky with their assumptions so far (especially considering that Decidueye almost got chosen).

 

[Guynamednelson]

In any case, as far as Pokémon goes TPC generally hopes that whoever they advertise in particular at the moment gets picked for Smash. They just happen to be lucky with their assumptions so far (especially considering that Decidueye almost got chosen).

Except this is why Lycanroc supporters still have hope: A more popular, promoted gen 7 Pokemon is completely absent from the game, alongside a stage from that gen and content from its third version equivalent.

Just because Pokemon is reverse Fire Emblem in that Smash fans wish its reps were less diverse doesn't mean someone who isn't an anthromorphic starter wasn't promoted .

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

Frankly, I'd rather wait to get a finished fighter instead of getting a rushed fighter earlier. Let's just wait for him to be finished, he'll come eventually.

I know. I waited since Brawl for Banjo to finally join the roster. And finally, it happened. But now, Nintendo is doing this hiding the release date thing, and it makes me worried they will wa

Next smash direct
Sakurai: I'm very sorry to inform you that Banjo-Kazooie will be delayed until October 2022, as we are working very hard to balance their frame 1 forward Smash that covers half the length of final destination and does 50% on its' sour spot.

Please don't joke like that.

 

[Jurae818]

Guh-Huzzah! I should rephrase what I meant when I said marketing picks, which others have stated masterfully. Smash Four had a recurring trend of advertising a game its roster came from at the bottom of their respective pages with "Want to know more about X? Click here!". That to me was marketing recent titles and Fire Emblem especially being outright confirmed shilled in Smash. Smash Four was pushing for relevant characters rather than fan picks and that isn't to say that there weren't fans of those characters, because that is not the case, Shulk being a character that I knew from a game that I wanted to play, going back to Nintendo being out of touch around that era; it took Project Rainfall to get Xenoblade along with The Last Story and Pandora's Tower localized in America (I own all three for the record), basically fans complaining and crying and to their credit, it got the job done.

Otherwise, I would have never gotten to play Xenoblade, and Shulk may not have gotten in Smash Four even. Shulk was one of the few characters I wasn't annoyed or indifferent to, only because I played his game and though he wasn't on my lists, I wasn't against him and even gave a nod when he was shown. But going back to my original point, not having fan favorites is a problem because Smash Four is where that relevancy argument started to pop up. If you didn't have a game coming out, you weren't worthy of Smash. Sakurai even confirming that characters with no future are rarely chosen and around that time in 2013-14, the man became a deity who could do no wrong. I hated how people worshiped him blindly. In a game where various famous characters come to fight together, you would think that the fans would be a priority, but until recently that wasn't the case. I'd wager that the November Direct was also another way of trying to keep the fan demands at bay, and especially with how many characters got deconfirmed with that awful Spirits mode, unless somehow someway being a Spirit doesn't deconfirm a character but that does not seem to be the case.

DMTN said it best, going with that interview, a lot of Smash Four's characters seemed so hard to be unique that they ended up being gimmicky in some cases. While not an inherently bad quality, it showed that the focus was on being unique and people didn't care about who got in or didn't get in as long as the moveset was 'unique'. Characters got pushed aside for mechanics. And it need not be reiterated, but why not: Palutena was shown publicly at E3 (And by extension Black Pit at the end) while a literal video game icon (Said character being the SOLE reason I even brought that waste of plastic) predating THE video game icon of all time was shown behind closed doors and not at the lavish event full of video game fans of all walks beforehand.

That alone tells me how hard Smash Four dropped the ball with newcomers, hype and overall management. I couldn't even clock in twenty hours because so many things pissed me off with that game, or games in this case. The 3DS version held back the Wii U version, for sure. It's amazing how I swore off Smash completely for over two years and initially blocked out Ultimate in my mind because I was expecting the worst and while it **** the bed in some areas still, it managed to undo some wrongs to where I'm happy with it currently. All of Smash Four's highlights roster-wise even make the game more obsolete now that I can experience them in Ultimate with no ill will.

Lastly just for clarification, while Smash Four is the lowest point of Smash in my opinion, Brawl still has the worst gameplay, but at least it did what it was supposed to do; follow up on Melee and generate hype for a new installment in the Smash series. Not to mention the amount of newcomers was incredibly strong with literally no duds at all.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Except this is why Lycanroc supporters still have hope: A more popular, promoted gen 7 Pokemon is completely absent from the game, alongside a stage from that gen and content from its third version equivalent.

Just because Pokemon is reverse Fire Emblem in that Smash fans wish its reps were less diverse doesn't mean someone who isn't an anthromorphic starter wasn't promoted .

Gen 6 & 7 Pokemon tend to have the problem of being the flavour of the year and afterwards people move on to the next Gen. This is getting more apparent as Pokemon starts to churn out yearly releases now. Lucario was chosen because he was incredibly popular among the fans and was heavily promoted before the release of the games while Lycanroc doesn't have that luxury. Decidueye could have had a chance and we've already found out that it was nearly picked until Sakurai wanted Incineroar.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Guh-Huzzah! I should rephrase what I meant when I said marketing picks, which others have stated masterfully. Smash Four had a recurring trend of advertising a game its roster came from at the bottom of their respective pages with "Want to know more about X? Click here!". That to me was marketing recent titles and Fire Emblem especially being outright confirmed shilled in Smash. Smash Four was pushing for relevant characters rather than fan picks and that isn't to say that there weren't fans of those characters, because that is not the case, Shulk being a character that I knew from a game that I wanted to play, going back to Nintendo being out of touch around that era; it took Project Rainfall to get Xenoblade along with The Last Story and Pandora's Tower localized in America (I own all three for the record), basically fans complaining and crying and to their credit, it got the job done.

Otherwise, I would have never gotten to play Xenoblade, and Shulk may not have gotten in Smash Four even. Shulk was one of the few characters I wasn't annoyed or indifferent to, only because I played his game and though he wasn't on my lists, I wasn't against him and even gave a nod when he was shown. But going back to my original point, not having fan favorites is a problem because Smash Four is where that relevancy argument started to pop up. If you didn't have a game coming out, you weren't worthy of Smash. Sakurai even confirming that characters with no future are rarely chosen and around that time in 2013-14, the man became a deity who could do no wrong. I hated how people worshiped him blindly. In a game where various famous characters come to fight together, you would think that the fans would be a priority, but until recently that wasn't the case. I'd wager that the November Direct was also another way of trying to keep the fan demands at bay, and especially with how many characters got deconfirmed with that awful Spirits mode, unless somehow someway being a Spirit doesn't deconfirm a character but that does not seem to be the case.

DMTN said it best, going with that interview, a lot of Smash Four's characters seemed so hard to be unique that they ended up being gimmicky in some cases. While not an inherently bad quality, it showed that the focus was on being unique and people didn't care about who got in or didn't get in as long as the moveset was 'unique'. Characters got pushed aside for mechanics. And it need not be reiterated, but why not: Palutena was shown publicly at E3 (And by extension Black Pit at the end) while a literal video game icon (Said character being the SOLE reason I even brought that waste of plastic) predating THE video game icon of all time was shown behind closed doors and not at the lavish event full of video game fans of all walks beforehand.

That alone tells me how hard Smash Four dropped the ball with newcomers, hype and overall management. I couldn't even clock in twenty hours because so many things pissed me off with that game, or games in this case. The 3DS version held back the Wii U version, for sure. It's amazing how I swore off Smash completely for over two years and initially blocked out Ultimate in my mind because I was expecting the worst and while it **** the bed in some areas still, it managed to undo some wrongs to where I'm happy with it currently. All of Smash Four's highlights roster-wise even make the game more obsolete now that I can experience them in Ultimate with no ill will.

Lastly just for clarification, while Smash Four is the lowest point of Smash in my opinion, Brawl still has the worst gameplay, but at least it did what it was supposed to do; follow up on Melee and generate hype for a new installment in the Smash series. Not to mention the amount of newcomers was incredibly strong with literally no duds at all.

Ah, alright, I see what you mean. And honestly, yeah, I agree. While I don't think fan picks are necessary for Smash, I do think that it helps to have them. It's possible that they wanted Bayonetta to be that fan pick, but since characters that Sakurai didn't deem fit for Smash were disqualified, it left many people disappointed, and rightfully so. As for the praise, I wouldn't necessarily call it endless. When people don't like something, they won't shy away from raising their voice. It seemed like with Ultimate's roster people were thanking Sakurai for more or less stepping out of his comfort zone when it comes to characters. I could be wrong though.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

Blocked Content has a video up with a "leak" stating the Hero releases in August! Said leak also reveals Isabelle's fishing rod to grab through Shields and World of Light DLC!

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ah, alright, I see what you mean. And honestly, yeah, I agree. While I don't think fan picks are necessary for Smash, I do think that it helps to have them. It's possible that they wanted Bayonetta to be that fan pick, but since characters that Sakurai didn't deem fit for Smash were disqualified, it left many people disappointed, and rightfully so. As for the praise, I wouldn't necessarily call it endless. When people don't like something, they won't shy away from raising their voice. It seemed like with Ultimate's roster people were thanking Sakurai for more or less stepping out of his comfort zone when it comes to characters. I could be wrong though.

I think I'll disagree on the part about fan picks not being necessary. While I can certainly understand wanting to advertise recent games and bring in new audiences with 2000s/2010s games and it's necessary for Smash in the long run, It's also important to care about the older fanbase. You know, the people who have been playing since Smash 64.

When it comes to 1st parties, the last character before K. Rool that I celebrated due to having a personal attachment to was Diddy Kong, all the way back in Brawl. With third parties, if we only got characters based on their current "relevance" at the time of their introduction to Smash, not only would we not have Banjo, but also not and, arguably, .

Blocked Content has a video up with a "leak" stating the Hero releases in August! Said leak also reveals Isabelle's fishing rod to grab through Shields and World of Light DLC!

Take these things with a massive grain of salt, man. Just saying.

 

[Dee Dude]

At this rate, it would take Geno & Isaac to 100% bury the dead character/series & irrelevance argument to the ground and burn it completely.

killed 90% of it but was held back by “MUH MAIN VILLIAN OF RELEVANT SERIES”, yeah the main villain that Nintendo literally said they forgot existed.

killed 98% of the notion that your series needs to be alive and active but then some people argued that atleast Banjo was popular and well known which is complete BS because several Banjo detractors have told us time and again that we overestimated his popularity and iconicness.

Everything that applied to Banjo pretty much applies to Isaac so he’s good but Geno is a one-shot side character from a 23 year old game so he’d bring 2% of the argument down for good.

I just don’t understand how this argument exists when literally half of the roster characters are irrelevant, then again some people have thrown the “WELL & SERIES WERE RELEVANT WHEN ADDED IN 64”

Yeah but are they relevant and alive today? No.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I think I'll disagree on the part about fan picks not being necessary. While I can certainly understand wanting to advertise recent games and bring in new audiences with 2000s/2010s games and it's necessary for Smash in the long run, It's also important to care about the older fanbase. You know, the people who have been playing since Smash 64.

I agree that you should try to cater to every audience possible, but you don’t need to. If you did, though, that’d be good for your game.

 

[ze9]

I don't even think it's about fan-favorites VS advertisements or older characters VS newer characters.
I's just that... It kinda misses the point of a crossover between beloved characters, if the characters aren't actually that beloved.

Thiugh I'd say Smash 4's sins have been mostly forgiven.

 

[Organization XIII]

killed 98% of the notion that your series needs to be alive and active but then some people argued that atleast Banjo was popular and well known which is complete BS because several Banjo detractors have told us time and again that we overestimated his popularity and iconicness.

Oh no my friend apparently you haven't heard. Banjo apparently affected the recency and relevance argument 0% because he got some new merch. I mean really how much more alive can a series be in the social conscious if a character is still get cheap crap that would only appeal to the fans of that series and only a fraction would buy?
Seriously the lengths people go to justify their dumb rules is just sad.

 

[yeet123]

Last Two Fighters this pass will be Heihachi and Crash Bandicoot. Echo Fighters Pass will be Dixie Kong, Octoling, Black Shadow, Jeanne, and Proto Man. The Nintendo Pass will be Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Porky, Rex, and Toad.

 

[StormC]

killed 98% of the notion that your series needs to be alive and active but then some people argued that atleast Banjo was popular and well known which is complete BS because several Banjo detractors have told us time and again that we overestimated his popularity and iconicness.

I mean... a couple of detractors saying Banjo's popularity and iconicness being overestimated doesn't make it true. Banjo was a cornerstone of Nintendo during the N64 era. I do think that's what makes him stand out, there is a level of prestige for the series and characters as far as Nintendo is concerned. Sakurai even recognized that and has talked on several occasions about them being an obvious inclusion in the Melee era. The character has a level of recognizability and mindshare among gamers, especially Nintendo gamers, that very few first party characters not yet in Smash have.

For what it's worth, I think Isaac could have made it in if there were 15+ newcomers like Brawl and Smash 4. Geno... think it just comes down to Square.

 

[Deleted member]

Crach Bandicoot

You almost made me laugh loudly.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Geno... think it just comes down to Square.

Yeah, pretty much. They seem like the only company dumb enough to say "no" for silly reasons unrelated to rivalries. But we'll see what happens.

At this rate, it would take Geno & Isaac to 100% bury the dead character/series & irrelevance argument to the ground and burn it completely.

killed 90% of it but was held back by “MUH MAIN VILLIAN OF RELEVANT SERIES”, yeah the main villain that Nintendo literally said they forgot existed.

killed 98% of the notion that your series needs to be alive and active but then some people argued that atleast Banjo was popular and well known which is complete BS because several Banjo detractors have told us time and again that we overestimated his popularity and iconicness.

Everything that applied to Banjo pretty much applies to Isaac so he’s good but Geno is a one-shot side character from a 23 year old game so he’d bring 2% of the argument down for good.

I just don’t understand how this argument exists when literally half of the roster characters are irrelevant, then again some people have thrown the “WELL & SERIES WERE RELEVANT WHEN ADDED IN 64”

Yeah but are they relevant and alive today? No.

I wouldn't be surprised if the fan rule got updated to say "characters from inactive series can only get in if it's a third party". Wouldn't put it past those people to do that, it's like they don't want other fans to be happy.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I agree that you should try to cater to every audience possible, but you don’t need to. If you did, though, that’d be good for your game.

I mean... yeah, you don't absolutely need to, but as you said, it can't exactly be bad, right? It's not like we're asking for Bubsy or other characters from bad older games. Either way, both groups seem satisfied with the roster so far, so that's great, I guess.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but roughly we have a third of the roster from the 80s, a third from the 90s and a third from the 2000s and beyond. What's more, even most of the 80s and 90s characters are very much alive and relevant, so a few bones thrown our way are certainly appreciated, especially after what many consider to be a lackluster roster in 4.

Though why some people seem upset with "too much nostalgia pandering" in Smash Bros, of all games, is beyond me to begin with.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean... yeah, you don't absolutely need to, but as you said, it can't exactly be bad, right? It's not like we're asking for Bubsy or other characters from bad older games. Either way, both groups seem satisfied with the roster so far, so that's great, I guess.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but roughly we have a third of the roster from the 80s, a third from the 90s and a third from the 2000s and beyond. What's more, even most of the 80s and 90s characters are very much alive and relevant, so a few bones thrown our way are certainly appreciated, especially after what many consider to be a lackluster roster in 4.

Though why some people seem upset with "too much nostalgia pandering" in Smash Bros, of all games, is beyond me to begin with.

Yeah, I mean PSASBR did the almost exact opposite and most people weren't exactly keen with the idea. Didn't help that the third parties involved with that game clearly pushed for characters from their recent games (Donte, Raiden). Even worse, some of the most influential Sony characters never showed up in the game. And some choices were odd, but not for the right reasons (did anyone seriously expect Zeus to be playable?).

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, I mean PSASBR did the almost exact opposite and most people weren't exactly keen with the idea. Didn't help that the third parties involved with that game clearly pushed for characters from their recent games (Donte, Raiden). Even worse, some of the most influential Sony characters never showed up in the game. And some choices were odd, but not for the right reasons (did anyone seriously expect Zeus to be playable?).

Shame, too... most people look at that game and say "it's bad, but it could have been good". For a smaller studio, the people did a fine job, they just... didn't have the trust, backing and network that Sakurai and Nintendo had. I mean, look Snake and Sonic - our first guest characters in Smash. People asked Sakurai to put them in, not the other way around. That alone shows the difference in faith people and companies had in each project.

But yeah, having very little nostalgia picks certainly did nothing in PSASBR's favor. Not that Nathan Drake and Cole were bad picks per se, but... people want their 90s cereal mascots too, man.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Shame, too... most people look at that game and say "it's bad, but it could have been good". For a smaller studio, the people did a fine job, they just... didn't have the trust, backing and network that Sakurai and Nintendo had. I mean, look Snake and Sonic - our first guest characters in Smash. People asked Sakurai to put them in, not the other way around. That alone shows the difference in faith people and companies had in each project.

But yeah, having very little nostalgia picks certainly did nothing in PSASBR's favor. Not that Nathan Drake and Cole were bad picks per se, but... people want their 90s cereal mascots too, man.

I mean, I suppose Parappa was your cereal mascot.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I mean, I suppose Parappa was your cereal mascot.

True, but 1/24 isn't exactly much, is it? I suppose there's Spike, too, but even then...

We have at least half a dozen of "irrelevant" characters in Smash. And that's great. Because even if you don't know them or never played their games, this cast has over 70 characters you can go to instead. Why people are still upset with a few "dead" characters getting in Smash in place of a few new picks, I have no idea.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

True, but 1/24 isn't exactly much, is it? I suppose there's Spike, too, but even then...

We have at least half a dozen of "irrelevant" characters in Smash. And that's great. Because even if you don't know them or never played their games, this cast has over 70 characters you can go to instead. Why people are still upset with a few "dead" characters getting in Smash in place of a few new picks, I have no idea.

Yeah, PSASBR really needed to utilize a more diverse cast. It feels less like a celebration of PS4 all stars, but instead it feels like a game to advertise 24 different games at once.