Bandana Dee, the Legend of Dee - Our Star Ally as DeeLC?! (v(- ' ' -)>↑

[Hollywoodrok12]

Chrom was decided upon literally at the start of development. The game itself was rushed. He might've been worked on a bit later at best. It means nothing. Team Up actually fits Robin still and Final Smashes are now more cutscene-like entirely, which is probably why it's actually still there. It fits too well and takes too much time to make an all new model when Chrom works fine. It's a fan rule that you cannot have someone in a Final Smash also as a playable character. Or basically,t he whole NPC rule is being taken more seriously than it should. There's no real evidence to suggest Chrom being still in Team Up was a "last minute decision" in itself. It's a decent excuse, but doesn't hold any real water.

Even if he was chosen at the beginning, you said his development could be last minute yourself. Who's to say plans didn't originally have Chrom meant to be replaced by someone like Morgan for Pair-Up or even a have Robin be given a new FS all together?

Yep. And that applies to every single possible DLC character. Your point doesn't hold any water. They can just say "Shantae(Alternate)" if they're out of ideas. You do know that there's no longer basic alternate spirits like previous games had at least multiple trophies per character, right? They got alternate spirits for alternate costumes or poses because there was only one Fighter spirit per character. Alternate costumes didn't matter. Hell, even alternate forms like Alph didn't get a fighter spirit(for some reason), so it's clear something they already thought out enough to prevent this sort of issue.

But the thing is, those alternate spirits are not equitable, just like their standard counterparts, and I don't see what alternate trophies have to do with anything. Also, Alph does have a Fighter Spirit in the Shop.

Not that simple. Sakurai looked at every single Spirit chosen and actually removed some himself. He knows what they all are. There's just no reason to believe he actually cares if they're a spirit or not in any way when it comes to DLC. People keep saying it like he does, but that's a huge assumption that requires us to not be willing to have any remote faith in him. The burden of proof is on you to show why we should believe he would remotely care. You're making a pretty huge leap of reasoning, so back it up with actual evidence here. Comparing it to AT's and Pokeballs who are in entirely different positions and reasonings doesn't work as an analogy and only hurt your point. Spirits are updated Trophies. No more, no less. I would keep this point in mind while making your next argument towards this. For the record, "I don't have any reason to believe a spirit would get updated" is a fair argument. You're right. We don't have any actual reason to believe they will be updated.

We at least know the purpose behind AT's. Apparently Pokeballs are similar. Never stated, though in the case of Pokeballs, they're all Pokemon that have fun gameplay purposes. AT's were actually based upon the idea of "characters who could not be playable". I don't remember any case stated related to Pokeballs.

If Sakurai removed some himself, who's to say he didn't remove the spirits that were gonna be fighters, like Plant? Also, he does care that the fighters are not spirits. Official sources, including Sakurai himself stated that Fighters and Spirits are separate on multiple occasions. Here are some examples I wrote about for a separate thread:

Spoiler: Spirits are Separate

Sakurai:

“In this mysterious world, the unspeakable happens: many beloved characters lose their physical forms. All of them, except the fighters, are turned into Spirits, unable to return to the real world"

The Announcer:

“What’s this? Characters other than fighters? Must be SPIRITS!”

Nintendo Switch News (on World of Light):

“You can’t play as a spirit, but you can equip them…”

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even if he was chosen at the beginning, you said his development could be last minute yourself. Who's to say plans didn't originally have Chrom meant to be replaced by someone like Morgan for Pair-Up or even a have Robin be given a new FS all together?

A theory that means little. Why should we believe he'd add anyone new and take extra times for something that doesn't fit any better than the current version. You're holding onto the theory and making excuses. We don't really know if Chrom was last minute. But more importantly, there is no reason to believe he made some hard NPC rule and Chrom is an exception. That's not how it works.

But the thing is, those alternate spirits are not equitable, just like their standard counterparts, and I don't see what alternate trophies have to do with anything. Also, Alph does have a Fighter Spirit in the Shop.

Ah, my bad on the Alph thing. You don't get it for finishing with Olimar, so it clearly was intended to have less importance anyway. Anyway, the point is alternate spirits exist for the same reason alternate trophies do. Characters can have more than one spirit because it frankly never mattered at all. They only need one main spirit to begin with. Anything else is fluff.

If Sakurai removed some himself, who's to say he didn't remove the spirits that were gonna be fighters, like Plant? Also, he does care that the fighters are not spirits. Official sources, including Sakurai himself stated that Fighters and Spirits are separate on multiple occasions. Here are some examples I wrote about for a separate thread:

Spoiler: Spirits are Separate

Sakurai:

“In this mysterious world, the unspeakable happens: many beloved characters lose their physical forms. All of them, except the fighters, are turned into Spirits, unable to return to the real world"

The Announcer:

“What’s this? Characters other than fighters? Must be SPIRITS!”

Nintendo Switch News (on World of Light):

“You can’t play as a spirit, but you can equip them…”

PP was planned for base or at least during base's development. Removing the spirit makes sense. That's the only reason it makes sense. Spirits were decided upon way earlier than the Fighter's Pass. PP was clearly decided upon at least by September, if not earlier. It's not an example of meaning anything but a unique situation. It's not some rule or an exception to that rule.

You're still acting like he removed certain ones for any known reason of ours. All he said was he removed some. Here's some we have actual reasons for; 3 spirits were known but removed. They're all 3rd party franchises that Nintendo owns the name itself of. In other words, the only two cases of spirit removals known are a one-shot case of changing an already planned character to playable(in other words, nothing worth noting) and licensing issues. The theory doesn't have any good evidence for in this case either.

Of course those spirits aren't currently fighters. That's just a basic gameplay distinction. How does that mean anything for the fighter's pass at all? That's a huge leap of logic to assume it affects that. The spirit disconfirmation theory needs a lot of leaps of logic in order for it to work. Like, it's not entirely impossible, but it's highly unlikely Sakurai would be willing to remove almost 1300 from the list(or a bit over 1200, since we have almost 100 playable characters at this point) of potential candidates. That's way too long of a list to do just for the sake of something that damn silly. They're glorified trophies in the long run. Why on earth would he care that much? It's too easy to fix the issue with a slight text change, eliminating the only actual issue whatsoever in having someone like Shantae come in as DLC. So the only tangible issues don't exist. If there was a significantly less number of spirits, maybe. Or if they had far more significant roles instead of being Trophies 2.0, the theory might be a bit less leapy in its logic. But as of now, there's little reason to believe it as more than just "eh, it could happen".

 

[Zerp]

Don't know whether or not they deeconfirm but frankly, I'm just upset nobody is calling them Spear-its here.

 

[Chandeelure]

I made this for fun.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It's not a matter of whether or not Sakurai could, but whether or not he would. He could just say "OK I'll add Waluigi/Shantae/Bandana Dee/*insert deconfirrmed character here*." But he wouldn't. Sakurai has a whole bunch of other characters he considers a higher priority who are not already Spirits, Poke Balls or ATs. He could just promote Shantae and Bandana Dee and change their spirit names to Shantae (Half Genie Hero) and Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby's Return to Dream Land), but he wouldn't. Because as Reggie stated, the characters are all going to be characters who haven't appeared in the series in any way shape or form, and they are no exception.

What you're implying is:

1. You know for a fact, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Sakurai would never ever ever not in a million years ignore the small amount of significance spirits hold to add someone who's currently absent from the game. Have you met him personally? Has he told you this? Can you read his mind? If so I'll concede.
2. It is 100% impossible, nope, never gonna happen, never ever going to be more than one DLC fighter pass, despise the multiple datamines that have discovered dozens of empty fighter slots.
3. Sakurai shares all of the opinions of everyone who wants someone who isn't in the game, and will always prioritize characters who aren't in the game over spirits.

Yeah I don't buy it.

You only say that because you want it to be true.

We say that because it's logical and it makes sense.

Notice how little significance spirits hold in game. They're literally just images ripped from the internet with equip effects. Dozens of characters are represented by multiple spirits, some even have multiple fighter spirits. Nintendo has made no comment about if spirits deconfirm or not. They can't be lumped with ATs in any way.

While I doubt a spirit will show up in the first DLC wave, I'm confident that there will be a second wave of DLC, and in that I'm confidant that at least one spirit will show up as a fighter. Nintendo isn't like Sony, they won't pass up an opportunity to please so many fans like that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It's not a matter of whether or not Sakurai could, but whether or not he would. He could just say "OK I'll add Waluigi/Shantae/Bandana Dee/*insert deconfirrmed character here*." But he wouldn't. Sakurai has a whole bunch of other characters he considers a higher priority who are not already Spirits, Poke Balls or ATs. He could just promote Shantae and Bandana Dee and change their spirit names to Shantae (Half Genie Hero) and Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby's Return to Dream Land), but he wouldn't. Because as Reggie stated, the characters are all going to be characters who haven't appeared in the series in any way shape or form, and they are no exception.


I know, right. It's kinda sad how much people hold on to false hope, especially when there's clear evidence that that hope is false.

What Sakurai would or wouldn't do is purely speculation. You'd do well to treat it as such.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

What you're implying is:

1. You know for a fact, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Sakurai would never ever ever not in a million years ignore the small amount of significance spirits hold to add someone who's currently absent from the game. Have you met him personally? Has he told you this? Can you read his mind? If so I'll concede.

The thing is, (most, including a lot of highly requested characters) Spirits have their own Story mode: World of Light. So removing part of the story mode to make into a fighter would not be something that'd make much sense. And also, I don't know what Sakurai said, but I do know what Reggie said, which is the next best thing. Reggie didn't say "newcomers" or "new challengers"; he said that the DLC fighters were going to be new to the series, implying that they've never been included in the series in any way, shape or form prior.

What you're implying is:

2: It is 100% impossible, nope, never gonna happen, never ever going to be more than one DLC fighter pass, despise the multiple datamines that have discovered dozens of empty fighter slots.

Firstly, the datelines may or may not be future proofing. I think Sakurai's gonna wanna get out of Smash-dodge as soon as possible, but I know as much as you do. He may. He may not. We could get 3 Fighter Passes, we could end up only getting 2. I don't know. However, it is very likely that they follow the precedent that was set in Smash 4 with the 3rd parties, since we only got 1 Nintendo Newcomer per game's DLC (1 of which was likely planned for Base Game). You could write in 14 3rd parties that have never been in Smash before and prove that they could, theoretically, continue to add only 3rd parties who aren't ATs or Spirits.

What you're implying is:

3.Sakurai shares all of the opinions of everyone who wants someone who isn't in the game, and will always prioritize characters who aren't in the game over spirits.

No. In fact, I'm trying to argue he won't add any fan favorites. Again, Smash 4 set the precedent of adding 3rd parties who aren't in the game at all. Sure, there's Lucas and Mewtwo, but they're veterans. No Trophied Newcomers, and no Mii Costume'd Newcomers at all.

Nintendo isn't like Sony, they won't pass up an opportunity to please so many fans like that.

I'm sorry, but after these 4: , I'd argue on the contrary.

What Sakurai would or wouldn't do is purely speculation. You'd do well to treat it as such.

Sorry if I came off as stating it as fact, but I really don't see Sakurai going out of his way for Spirits, let alone Bandana Dee.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Incineroar is actually a popular Pokemon to begin with. Bayonetta was voted number 1 in Europe and top 5 in the US. They're pretty awful examples at this point. Pokemon is just a damn popular franchise. It's pretty hard to add someone who would be mostly hated. Incineroar has some haters, sure, but not all that much. PP being the surprise character did ruffle a lot of feathers. It's divisive at best, but was also free DLC temporarily for a reason. Corrin, yeah, didn't do super great, but it's actually still a very popular character overall even then.

So yeah, I'd say they're doing a good job at pleasing a good amount of fans. Some minority fanbases do sadly get left behind, but even they're thrown a bone sometimes. Golden Sun got a huge amount of content, despite having no playable characters(yet).

There's a problem with your 3rd party trophy point; they have to license those characters to use them that way. Ryu is not owned by Capcom Co LTD. But by Capcom USA. They weren't going to have trophies. The only character at best that could've had a trophy would be Bayonetta beforehand. Though I will say your point does make some sense. I can see where you're coming from. Corrin didn't exist yet, however, so it's not like he could be a trophy. We only had one DLC run too beforehand. The problem is there is no consistency in what happened and 3rd parties have licensing reasons first and foremost.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The thing is, (most, including a lot of highly requested characters) Spirits have their own Story mode: World of Light. So removing part of the story mode to make into a fighter would not be something that'd make much sense. And also, I don't know what Sakurai said, but I do know what Reggie said, which is the next best thing. Reggie didn't say "newcomers" or "new challengers"; he said that the DLC fighters were going to be new to the series, implying that they've never been included in the series in any way, shape or form prior.

1. World of Light is barely a story to begin with. The spirits have no significance to the story whatsoever. It's possible to beat the entire game spiritless.
2. Again you're implying that it's impossible for them to simply switch out a WoL spirit with one that's accessed via spirit board/shop and replace them.
3. Stop switching this to Reggie's comments. We know that already. What I'm implying is the likely possibility of a second DLC wave including spirits.

Firstly, the datelines may or may not be future proofing. I think Sakurai's gonna wanna get out of Smash-dodge as soon as possible, but I know as much as you do. He may. He may not. We could get 3 Fighter Passes, we could end up only getting 2. I don't know. However, it is very likely that they follow the precedent that was set in Smash 4 with the 3rd parties, since we only got 1 Nintendo Newcomer per game's DLC (1 of which was likely planned for Base Game). You could write in 14 3rd parties that have never been in Smash before and prove that they could, theoretically, continue to add only 3rd parties who aren't ATs or Spirits.

No, it's not proof. But can you offer a batter explanation? All slots in Smash 4 were filled.
Smash 4 DLC had more 1st parties than 3rd parties. It had 2 3rd party newcomers, and Ultimate so far has 3 3rd party newcomers. There's no real difference between the 3rd party count in DLC versus base game. There wasn't a precedent set by 3rd parties in DLC.

And you're implying that they're going to continue a vague pattern from several years ago.

No. In fact, I'm trying to argue he won't add any fan favorites. Again, Smash 4 set the precedent of adding 3rd parties who aren't in the game at all. Sure, there's Lucas and Mewtwo, but they're veterans. No Trophied Newcomers, and no Mii Costume'd Newcomers at all.

Again, there really wasn't a "precedent" set by Smash 4. And again, there's no way to tell how Sakurai plans on adding newcomers.

I'm sorry, but after these 4: , I'd argue on the contrary.

and were actually popular.
Was free DLC and the joke fighter of this game.
Was added in a spot meant to advertise a new game and not to add a fan favorite to begin with.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Incineroar is actually a popular Pokemon to begin with. Bayonetta was voted number 1 in Europe and top 5 in the US. They're pretty awful examples at this point. Pokemon is just a damn popular franchise. It's pretty hard to add someone who would be mostly hated. Incineroar has some haters, sure, but not all that much. PP being the surprise character did ruffle a lot of feathers. It's divisive at best, but was also free DLC temporarily for a reason. Corrin, yeah, didn't do super great, but it's actually still a very popular character overall even then.

So yeah, I'd say they're doing a good job at pleasing a good amount of fans. Some minority fanbases do sadly get left behind, but even they're thrown a bone sometimes. Golden Sun got a huge amount of content, despite having no playable characters(yet).

There's a problem with your 3rd party trophy point; they have to license those characters to use them that way. Ryu is not owned by Capcom Co LTD. But by Capcom USA. They weren't going to have trophies. The only character at best that could've had a trophy would be Bayonetta beforehand. Though I will say your point does make some sense. I can see where you're coming from. Corrin didn't exist yet, however, so it's not like he could be a trophy. We only had one DLC run too beforehand. The problem is there is no consistency in what happened and 3rd parties have licensing reasons first and foremost.

1. World of Light is barely a story to begin with. The spirits have no significance to the story whatsoever. It's possible to beat the entire game spiritless.
2. Again you're implying that it's impossible for them to simply switch out a WoL spirit with one that's accessed via spirit board/shop and replace them.
3. Stop switching this to Reggie's comments. We know that already. What I'm implying is the likely possibility of a second DLC wave including spirits.

No, it's not proof. But can you offer a batter explanation? All slots in Smash 4 were filled.
Smash 4 DLC had more 1st parties than 3rd parties. It had 2 3rd party newcomers, and Ultimate so far has 3 3rd party newcomers. There's no real difference between the 3rd party count in DLC versus base game. There wasn't a precedent set by 3rd parties in DLC.

And you're implying that they're going to continue a vague pattern from several years ago.

Again, there really wasn't a "precedent" set by Smash 4. And again, there's no way to tell how Sakurai plans on adding newcomers.

and were actually popular.
Was free DLC and the joke fighter of this game.
Was added in a spot meant to advertise a new game and not to add a fan favorite to begin with.

Actually, believe it or not, there's evidence the ballot might have been rigged for Bayo. IMO, her being called the winner likely was just a time-buyer for Ultimate. According to Source Gaming, preliminary data was added 2 weeks into the ballot. Considering legal rights and planning that had to be done, she was likely added before the ballot even began. As for Incineroar, there was far more outcry for Decidueye by comparison, so why wasn't he the Gen 7 rep?
Plant was a joke fighter, which they always have, and I'll give you that, but Corrin was a promotional character, and shows that promotional characters like Corrin for Fates, and Plant for buying SSBU early, are pretty much the only exception to the 3rd party rule. While we do have only 1 DLC season for comparison, we do have Reggie's words that I mentioned, which imply that trend will be continuing. My point is, there are far bigger characters, like Rayman, Isaac, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Bomberman, Geno, Paper Mario, Decidueye and more, including our own Bandana Dee, that all got left in the dust, so who's to say they're gonna be able to make a comeback, let alone actually do it?

1. World of Light is barely a story to begin with. The spirits have no significance to the story whatsoever. It's possible to beat the entire game spiritless.
2. Again you're implying that it's impossible for them to simply switch out a WoL spirit with one that's accessed via spirit board/shop and replace them.
3. Stop switching this to Reggie's comments. We know that already. What I'm implying is the likely possibility of a second DLC wave including spirits.

1. That doesn't change the fact they you're designed to beat it with them
2. Besides balance patches and bug fixes, they haven't made any changes to the game with Updates. How can you tell that they would just switch them out?
3. How do you know they're gonna include spirits? Sakurai could add another set of 5 promotional reps and 3rd parties by coincidence, even if there is no true precedent.

 

[Guynamednelson]

were actually popular.

The fact that Verg had to say "Not Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu" before saying Incineroar should tell you that the cat needed Smash to get most of its popularity.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, believe it or not, there's evidence the ballot might have been rigged for Bayo. IMO, her being called the winner likely was just a time-buyer for Ultimate. According to Source Gaming, preliminary data was added 2 weeks into the ballot. Considering legal rights and planning that had to be done, she was likely added before the ballot even began. As for Incineroar, there was far more outcry for Decidueye by comparison, so why wasn't he the Gen 7 rep?
Plant was a joke fighter, which they always have, and I'll give you that, but Corrin was a promotional character, and shows that promotional characters like Corrin for Fates, and Plant for buying SSBU early, are pretty much the only exception to the 3rd party rule. While we do have only 1 DLC season for comparison, we do have Reggie's words that I mentioned, which imply that trend will be continuing. My point is, there are far bigger characters, like Rayman, Isaac, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Bomberman, Geno, Paper Mario, Decidueye and more, including our own Bandana Dee, that all got left in the dust, so who's to say they're gonna be able to make a comeback, let alone actually do it?

Not rigged. It wasn't a popularity contest but a suggestion box.

She was probably decided before the ballot. There was no "winner" in Smash 4. Nobody was selected via it. She may have already planned to be playable and at best the votes confirmed it was a good choice anyway. Her votes were real. She probably wasn't chosen due to them.

Rigged is a poor way to say it and misunderstands the entire situation. For one thing, there was no guarantee Smash 4 would get a character as DLC from the ballot. It was a "possibility". In this case, nobody got in due to the ballot as is. It sounds like Bayo did, but that was more of a white lie to some degree with how Sakurai worded everything. People wanted to feel satisfied cause of getting someone in due to the ballot. No rigging existed, regardless.

Corrin absolutely is a promotional character, but let's note he almost didn't get in. The final factor was "Sakurai's team convincing him the moveset would be unique enough." Plant isn't a Joke Fighter. That's not how those work. He's a surprise character, a different type of addition. The only joke characters were Jigglypuff(as Sakurai thought it'd be weak) and Pichu(who was intentionally made weak). People tend to confuse Joke Fighters with anyone that looks like a strange addition. That's a completely different type of thing. Joke characters have to be intentionally weak(Jigglypuff's key weakness is if its shield is depleted, it auto flies up to a severe degree it'll KO itself. That's what gives it a joke status. Pichu hurts itself, a common joke status). PP doesn't have any actual joke traits whatsoever. It's actually a very strong fighter in many ways.

Bomberman was probably lower priority due to higher Castlevania votes. Who knows why Rayman isn't in. Maybe Rabbids were planned to be in instead. Maybe Ubisoft wasn't interested in a playable character. Maybe it was "playable Rabbids or bust" on Ubisoft's end. Maybe he didn't consider any of them. Paper Mario has been fairly ignored, so it's hard to say on that end. Last game was on the Wii U, though. Decidueye wasn't ignored... it was considered alongside Incineroar and the wrestler cat won overall. Geno is a matter of Square-Enix. Who knows on Shantae. Shovel Knight could've been a case of having a lesser presence in Japan or the company said no to him being playable for some reason, or he may not have been considered important enough overall. An AT is still a big role for an Indie regardless. Golden Sun is not a relevant series. It makes a lot of sense why Isaac would be lower priority in that regard. Bandanna Waddle Dee has a bigger role than your usual spirit, being a higher one, so I'd say he definitely got something special. We don't know why he didn't become playable. It could be as simple as Sakurai feeling Kirby is complete when it comes to fighters. Possibly not unlike the Zelda series. The problem is a lot of characters don't make it in and there's many reasons to consider as is. Just because they're popular doesn't mean they're definitely getting a spot. That's actually an important thing Sakurai has noted too; that popularity isn't the only factor in getting a character in.

The fact that Verg had to say "Not Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu" before saying Incineroar should tell you that the cat needed Smash to get most of its popularity.

Not really, no. Incineroar is absolutely a popular character. People had no idea we were getting Ivysaur back, and looked at other characters just as much for the whole "different types", thinking it somehow mattered. He didn't say Incineroar early on because he couldn't confirm the character for quite a while, actually. He didn't namedrop it till he was 100% sure. He did not hear of those other characters, all popular votes, so noted they weren't among the characters he heard. It's a coincidence that led to your theory, but every Pokemon has popularity. It's pretty hard to find a universally hated one, or even that a majority hates as is. They might hate a specific Pokemon in a very specific role(like Pichu gets hate in Smash, but is loved in Pokemon itself. It still has a lot of Smash fans too. The only Pichu to have any real hate is notched-eared one that's downloadable in the games, but more importantly cannot learn any moves or evolve, and has abysmal stats.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean, asking for a very specific Pokémon in Smash is a gamble; being popular is helpful, but they can still go with someone else instead.

Also, there are literally hundreds of them, so a commitment issue is quite understandable considering that they'd prefer to only add one recent one instead of focusing on critters from previous gens that aren't Number One or whomever's been a Smash veteran.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, asking for a very specific Pokémon in Smash is a gamble; being popular is helpful, but they can still go with someone else instead.

Also, there are literally hundreds of them, so a commitment issue is quite understandable considering that they'd prefer to only add one recent one instead of focusing on critters from previous gens that aren't Number One or whomever's been a Smash veteran.

Adding a Pokemon isn't risky in Smash at all. It's an extremely popular franchise and the character is going to easily do well regardless. Even ones with sometimes slight unpopularity are still highly popular regardless. It's why they can afford risky mechanics as is like Trainer and Pichu and it still does well. It's great for experimentation.

So no, that's hardly an issue. Incidentally, Incineroar always had a ton of popularity on its own. And it has nothing to do with Verge or Sakurai. It's been a popular character entirely unrelated to Smash. Some wanted other characters for other reasons, including type representation. It doesn't mean Incineroar was some hated character. It meant he wasn't the first choice for some.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Incidentally, Incineroar always had a ton of popularity on its own.

People were hoping Incineroar leaks to be fake since Pokemon SM itself. Japan prefers Primarina while the west preferred Decidueye, and there's still several Alola Pokemon starters or otherwise who were more popular. Although to be fair, Incineroar was #2 in terms of starters on both sides of the world.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Adding a Pokemon isn't risky in Smash at all. It's an extremely popular franchise and the character is going to easily do well regardless. Even ones with sometimes slight unpopularity are still highly popular regardless. It's why they can afford risky mechanics as is like Trainer and Pichu and it still does well. It's great for experimentation.

So no, that's hardly an issue. Incidentally, Incineroar always had a ton of popularity on its own. And it has nothing to do with Verge or Sakurai. It's been a popular character entirely unrelated to Smash. Some wanted other characters for other reasons, including type representation. It doesn't mean Incineroar was some hated character. It meant he wasn't the first choice for some.

Yes, but you can't deny that most Pokémon from past gens still get passed over no matter how much people ask for them. Especially poor Gen 3; no Deoxys, no Grovyle, not even Gardevoir. And it'll probably be the case for Decidueye, Primarina and Lycanroc (and by extension Melmetal) after this game as well.

Also, I think that Incineroar is more of a base-breaker; both loved and detested in equal amounts (although since he's a Heel I suppose that's the point anyway).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

People were hoping Incineroar leaks to be fake since Pokemon SM itself. Japan prefers Primarina while the west preferred Decidueye, and there's still several Alola Pokemon starters or otherwise who were more popular. Although to be fair, Incineroar was #2 in terms of starters on both sides of the world.

Doesn't change Incineroar is still popular. Those two were just more popular. Incineroar has barely a hatebase.

Yes, but you can't deny that most Pokémon from past gens still get passed over no matter how much people ask for them. Especially poor Gen 3; no Deoxys, no Grovyle, not even Gardevoir. And it'll probably be the case for Decidueye, Primarina and Lycanroc after this game as well.

Also, I think that Incineroar is more of a base-breaker; both loved and detested in equal amounts (although since he's a Heel I suppose that's the point anyway).

Of course they do. Sakurai can't add everything under the sun. Timing plays a bigger role than anything else. And Gen 1 is easily the most popular. According to the information we have about the Gen 7 options, only Decidueye and Incineroar had any serious consideration. It was "Projectile-heavy character" VS "Wrestler". Sakurai wanted a wrestler more. It was that simple. He didn't take any popularity into account as the character wasn't out yet. He just went with what appealed to him more. Not unlike how Greninja got chosen over the other two.

He looked at concept art, well before the popularity notes came along. Being it's Pokemon, it wasn't a risk to add one. It was still do well because it's one of the most popular franchises and feels like it's guaranteed a spot in Smash due to that alone. So it's not exactly worrisome at all. You can argue it should be risky, but it's not treated that way at all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, but still, some popular Pokémon choices are still never-ever, and it's hard to get people to understand that. The Lycanroc fans in particular are going to be feeling crushed after all this, I just know it.

 

[D-Man9293]

We don't know what characters will be DLC.

We don't know how DLC was chosen.

We don't know if any spirits will be playable.

I regret bringing up this debate in the first place.

Can we please stop this useless arguing? It doesn't matter what we think now. We'll know who's in the game once they're released. We'll know if there's a second fighters pass if it's announced. Until then, everything is speculation, and isn't worth arguing over. Good day.

 

[GoodGrief741]

We don't know what characters will be DLC.

We don't know how DLC was chosen.

We don't know if any spirits will be playable.

I regret bringing up this debate in the first place.

Can we please stop this useless arguing? It doesn't matter what we think now. We'll know who's in the game once they're released. We'll know if there's a second fighters pass if it's announced. Until then, everything is speculation, and isn't worth arguing over. Good day.

I wish you had ended that post with Good grief. I never get tired of that joke.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wish you had ended that post with Good grief. I never get tired of that joke.

Oh, good grief, we got an ego.

Spoiler

And if not clear, I am trying to add to the fun joke.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

We don't know what characters will be DLC.

We don't know how DLC was chosen.

We don't know if any spirits will be playable.

I regret bringing up this debate in the first place.

Can we please stop this useless arguing? It doesn't matter what we think now. We'll know who's in the game once they're released. We'll know if there's a second fighters pass if it's announced. Until then, everything is speculation, and isn't worth arguing over. Good day.

I wish you had ended that post with Good grief. I never get tired of that joke.

Welp. Back to complaining about Sakurai Bias for me in this thread. Good Greif.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I am disappointed in all of you for not bringing up Charlie Brown

Good Grief!

 

[GoodGrief741]

I am disappointed in all of you for not bringing up Charlie Brown
View attachment 202246
Good Grief!

And that there is the sole reason I'm called this way.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

"Good grief" perfectly sums up my feelings over Ultimate speculation as a whole. Except the support threads that are ghost towns, anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai has already begun work on the fighters pass. If a second fighters pass is made in the future, why the heck would they select characters that are already equipable spirits in the game to be fighters? You all discount assist trophies, why should spirits, which also have an affect on the game, be any different?

I love Bandana Dee, and I'd love him to be playable, but I've decided to be reasonable and not expect the unlikely. We don't know what Sakurai will do, of course, but don't think Bandana Dee will be playable. He, alongside other spirit characters, likely won't be.

The only argument against this would be the situation with the alter-ego character spirits like Kaptain K. Rool or Rock Mario; Even though these characters are in smash, these particular spirits can still be equipped by the people they represent. Frankly, I feel they forgot to not add alter-ego spirits. I mean, the rock flower itself and maybe K. Rool's blunderbass/cannonball gun thingy could've been spirits on their own. There are like 12 Mario kart spirits that are just karts. Really, that's one of few arguments as to why spirits are really weird in terms of what they confirm/deconfirm, besides the dlc potentially having their own "alternate" spirits, ala the smash dlc veterans getting their own extra trophies.

 

[osby]

This thread is getting off-topic. Please, try and keep the discussion related to Bandana Dee.

 

[fogbadge]

so as far as alts go, think the bandana should have a different pattern or stick to one colour?

 

[D-Man9293]

The only argument against this would be the situation with the alter-ego character spirits like Kaptain K. Rool or Rock Mario; Even though these characters are in smash, these particular spirits can still be equipped by the people they represent. Frankly, I feel they forgot to not add alter-ego spirits. I mean, the rock flower itself and maybe K. Rool's blunderbass/cannonball gun thingy could've been spirits on their own. There are like 12 Mario kart spirits that are just karts. Really, that's one of few arguments as to why spirits are really weird in terms of what they confirm/deconfirm, besides the dlc potentially having their own "alternate" spirits, ala the smash dlc veterans getting their own extra trophies.

I already said I was done with this discussion. We don't know what Sakurai is doing. Let's STOP arguing.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Wow, i missed out on some real drama here

Can we just say the reason why we like Bandana Dee instead of you know ..

 

[fogbadge]

hang on if dedede has a waddle dee sprite on one of his alts then surely its only appropriate for bandanna to have a dedede sprite on one of his

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

hang on if dedede has a waddle dee sprite on one of his alts then surely its only appropriate for bandanna to have a dedede sprite on one of his

how it fit on Bandana on BWD

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

how it fit on Bandana on BWD

Maybe like in SSF2, where they put a little logo (which I think is Dedede's peace sign) on the front of the bandana?

 

[fogbadge]

Maybe like in SSF2, where they put a little logo (which I think is Dedede's peace sign) on the front of the bandana?
View attachment 202481

exactly on the bandana

 

[Chandeelure]

Hey guys, in case you didn't know, we have a Twitter, so you can follow the Bandana Brigade for information, fanart and Kirby memes.

https://twitter.com/BandanaDeeSSBU

 

[fogbadge]

Hey guys, in case you didn't know, remember to follow the Bandana Brigade Twitter for information, fanart and Kirby memes.

https://twitter.com/BandanaDeeSSBU

well alright

 

[Chandeelure]

We are about to reach 7000 posts, and 7 is the lucky number!

Bandana Dee confirmed!

 

[Deleted member]

I already said I was done with this discussion. We don't know what Sakurai is doing. Let's STOP arguing.

Oh uh...I wasn't arguing. I just thought that up real quick. Who was arguing, actually? I'm lost...actually, let's just drop it.

 

[FancySmash]

Alts for Bandana Dee?

Aside from the obvious Rainbow Curse and Star Allies alternate colors, I always saw this as likely.

Even though they're different characters, Bandana Dee could easily do an homage to him.

Also, Sailor Dee was playable in Battle Royale.

Wait, Sailor Dee also doesn't have a spirit...
And... Sailor Dee is a Sakurai creation...



Oh no...

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I think this discussion may have already past but...

Why would Sakurai limit 1,300+ potential characters?