Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

[KingJacob]

In Balanced Brawl when you are footstooled you land on your feet so it cannot result in an Ice Block lock. Thus your combo does not work. Also Ice Climbers are the only character that is radically changed from normal Brawl and in a sense they even still have the same basic focus. Besides they had to be changes somehow because their infinite went against the idea of removing all infinites.

Edit: Dang it, I got beat to it....

Also does Popo's down throw really lead to Nana's Footstool? If so
Ice Climbers combo list:
1. Popo's Forward Tilt > Nana's Dash attack > Up Smash
2. Popo's Up Tilt > Nana's Forward Air
3. Popo's Up Tilt > Nana's Footstool > Popo's Grab (or anything really) > ??
4. Popo's Up Tilt > Nana's Back Air > Popo's Reverse Forward Smash
5. Popo's Down Tilt > Nana's Grab Up Throw > To Popo's Forward Air
6. Also I am Pretty sure- Popo's Forward Throw > Nana's Up Throw > Popo's Forward Air
7. Popo's Throw > Nana's Forward Air
8. Popo's Down Throw > Nana's Foot Stool > Popo's Grab (or anything really but a grab would best continue the combo) > ??

 

[ぱみゅ]

Oh, that's right, my bad then... I have a lot of time without playing BBrawl... I miss it...):
Anyways, that leads to a even weirder Nana footstool behavior... :/


@Jacob: I'm not even sure if Dthrow still leads to footstool =P

 

[KingJacob]

Actually, I am betting it does not because the change-list says it has "consistent knockdown" so I will remove it unless it is tested to be true.
I am making this post the temporary Ice Climber Combo List and I will link to it and update it.

Ice Climbers combo list:
1. Popo's Forward Tilt > Nana's Dash attack > Up Smash
2. Popo's Up Tilt > Nana's Forward Air
3. Popo's Up Tilt > Nana's Footstool > Popo's Grab (or anything really) > ??
4. Popo's Up Tilt > Nana's Back Air > Popo's Reverse Forward Smash
5. Popo's Down Tilt > Nana's Grab Up Throw > To Popo's Forward Air
6. Also I am Pretty sure- Popo's Forward Throw > Nana's Up Throw > Popo's Forward Air
7. Popo's Down Throw > Nana's Forward Air> and if they don't tech it Popo's Forward Tilt > Re-grab

Also some one who is good with the ice climbers should start making videos where they utilize the new Ice Climbers in actual battles against other people.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You can't D-throw -> F-air -> Ice Block lock because Ice Blocks no longer cause forced getup due to actually popping people in the air. Ignoring the fact that it's possible to always tech Nana's F-air as well.

Let's see if I can get some IC mains to help us here...

 

[Last Elixir]

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to open some sort of IRC channel or some such for BBrawl, it'd allow people to discuss things more quickly, and relevant discoveries and such can still be pretty easily posted here?

 

[Thinkaman]

ICs discovery: f-tilt functions as a jab lock, allowing ICs to get a regrab or double f-smash after a non-tech'd popo d-throw -> nana fair sweetspot -> popo f-tilt. 53% base. Daaaaaaang.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Egad, if they don't tech it.

Considering I tech 99% of my hard landings, I'm not worried.

Also, BBrawl should really have a forum on either Smashmods or its website. Just saying.

 

[KingJacob]

I decided that rather than re-post the Ice-Climbers combos every time a new combo is discovered I will just post it here http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12202021&postcount=1003 and then after it receives a certain amount of updates I will actually re-post the list.

 

[Last Elixir]

So is talk of Dolphin on the forums here generally frowned upon? If someone could explain to me in layman's terms what needed to be done to play this on PC, it'd be a lot easier to organize matches once in a while!

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, most of us aren't super technical with emulation here.

I would assume if you could disassemble/reassemble or otherwise edit the ISO and replace the respective files with the new ones that are provided or if emulation permits a simulated SD card slot, you would be able to get somewhere. But that's just me rambling without really knowing how Wii emulation works.

Or for that matter, knowing how ISO editing works. From a quick search on youtube though there seems to be tutorials that could help you learn how to edit ISOs though. Hacking Brawl on emulation is possible for sure.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

It is a long time since I've been here. How is Balanced Brawl doing? I can see that Version 2 has lasted a lot. Are there more BBrawl players now? If so, why don't you upload any videos?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I haven't uploaded videos for the usual reasons of laziness, business, and because there isn't really enough interest in it in my area.

Hell I haven't even uploaded videos of normal Brawl in a while either...just because I haven't felt like doing it in general.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

Ok but, has the number of BBrawl players increased, that you are aware of?

 

[Last Elixir]

Ok but, has the number of BBrawl players increased, that you are aware of?

I've only started playing fairly recently, and also got a number of my friends involved as well. Unfortunately most of us aren't exactly tournament material, but we do enjoy the patch a lot more than vBrawl for what it is worth!

 

[RK9]

Hey I've been playing the V2 of BBrawl for a bit and just got BBrawl V3 "beta". I like the job you guys did, and hope that you both get recruited if there is another smash brothers in the making in future years ^^.
I have a question though, being the computer scrub that I am: Are the .pac files that are included in your BBrawl 3 fighter folders the same files that would potentially be edited to create ones own textures? If so that's pretty convenient :D

 

[Last Elixir]

Hey I've been playing the V2 of BBrawl for a bit and just got BBrawl V3 "beta". I like the job you guys did, and hope that you both get recruited if there is another smash brothers in the making in future years ^^.
I have a question though, being the computer scrub that I am: Are the .pac files that are included in your BBrawl 3 fighter folders the same files that would potentially be edited to create ones own textures? If so that's pretty convenient :D

Yeah. You can just use those folders for all your reskins of whatever you want.

 

[RK9]

Pretty Nifty.

 

[J00sh]

I'm an ICs main and I have to say, I'm not all that happy with them.

Yes, this most likely stems from the bias that they play COMPLETELY different to vBrawl in BBrawl but I have some comments;

- Although tilts desynching may seem like a massive buff, in reality, ICs can already desynch from a turnaround, a dash dance, a landing, a running stop and a starting run; and the majority of times, these are much better options then doing a tilt. I do understand that making tilts desynch does decrease the learning curve but for a player who has invested time in learning the intricacies of ICs already, it's not all that much of a buff. There are also cases when using both climbers to tilt would be much more effective then having one run ahead to dash attack (such as d-tilt poking on the edge) and this change becomes a bit of a nerf.

- From memory, there was a footstool combo that could be done out of an up-throw... but it required IB to force a get up animation. Have you guys made footstools tech-able? If not, nana may be able to use her f-tilt to form an infinite (as it forces getup). This is just theory crafting though as I haven't tried it yet.

- Also, can't nana just grab release > popo regrab? Again haven't tried this yet (not at home x_x)


I understand the direction you guys are trying to take with IC but I don't think this game will ever really draw in any real ICs mainers. It's not your fault, but you're basically changing the fundamental play style of a character (which is understandable under your project aims) whose entire game depends on mind games and an infinite.


My 'suggested' buffs for ICs would be to look at what they really need help with (i.e, SoPo recovery). Giving him a safer squall with less ending lag/more height gain/more horizontal momentum would be much more effective then just giving him a desynch out of tilts...

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Up-tilt desynch is pretty safe to do.

Footstools do not cause knockdown in this game. Also, Ice Blocks hit upwards, and thus cannot ground lock (but have slightly more frame advantage on grounded opponents).

Also I agree Squall should be buffed, though I would specifically increase the knockback to make it safer on hit, especially since this could be implemented in such a way to also remove grab release -> solo squall silliness.

 

[KingJacob]

I have to say that after playing my friend using the new Ice Climbers version that I am impressed you managed to get rid of their infinite while still keeping them extremely powerful as characters. In fact maybe it is just because I don't mash out hard enough but it seems like they are one of the easiest characters to rack up damage with and at higher percents a grab can lead to a smash attack so they kill well also. In fact I am actually having trouble figuring out what to do to them. However it is a shame that you could not get rid of their infinite, keep their grab really good, and also keep most of their play-style intact. I will upload videos of me fighting my friends nooby ice climber with random characters like Bowser and Donkey Kong. By the way is it just me or does Bowser seem to have an advantage over them now?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bowser actually was good against the ICs. He does have Firebreath to mess up some of their strategies, and the Klaw is annoying for the ICs to deal with given how well it separates them on hit. Better yet, they can't be brain dead anymore when juggling him due to their low mobility and due to the fact Bowser now has Down-B Super Armor. Not that Bowser likes getting comboed by the ICs at all, but yeah, he looks decent against them.

Though then again, that's just me rambling theory. I feel the best characters against the ICs are characters like ROB, Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, and Mario kinda in that order.

 

[KingJacob]

First of all I would like to generally agree with your reasons that Bowser has an advantage against the Ice Climbers. His fire Breath out-ranges their Blizzard wall, meaning it cannot be used for defense against him. He can often stop them from using it offensively by either using fire breath before they can get into range with the blizzard wall, or simply walking out of the blizzard wall's range before it hits you, then turning around and using fire breath. It also stops their ice-blocks, though this is situational at best. His up-B can be used to punish almost any attack they have, and can seemingly beat many of their attacks as well. Also even if the Ice-Climbers player sees it coming it will often still hit one of them due to the timing of Nana's shield. He also kills early with a large portion of his moves, is not horribly easy to juggle, and can separate them with his forward-B. In the end I believe the match-up is 55-45 for Bowser.

Also as far as R.O.B. goes he can supposedly camp behind the gyro with lasers, F-Tilts, and Fairs. Laser to beat the Blizzard, similarly to how Bowser does. If an attack hits one and not the other, run up and throw the other backwards. Then try to gimp with multiple fairs. If you kill Nana, then Popo becomes easy to gimp with fairs as well. Also should they get through your defenses, a down smash will often grape and separate them, allowing you to pursue. Nair can be used for the same purpose, but keeps you safe from their grabs. (it is slower though) Basically through heavy camping and gimping the ice-climbers have a lot of trouble against him. 60-40 R.O.B

Also A2ZOMG, could you explain why each of the characters you listed have an advantage against the Ice Climbers and say what you think the match-up numbers are for each of them? Finally how come Falco is not on your list? he has an amazing keep away game and the Ice-Climbers would have an extremely hard fight, just to get in.

After about two weeks of the Ice Climbers I think we should move on to a new character and just do our best to summarize the Ice Climbers match-ups discussed so far.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ROB of course beats the ICs just because he plays a better keepaway game, and has an easy time separating them and dominating a lone Ice Climber through superior pokes.

Ness and Lucas both have PSI Magnet to convince the ICs to not get too cheeky with Blizzard. PK Fire from both, but especially Ness (given he can light PK fire by tossing it at Ice Blocks for example) is not bad at messing up their desynch strategies. The ICs also have a hard time dealing with their spacing aerial spacing.

Yoshi separates the ICs pretty easily with Egg Lay and B-air, and his Egg Toss camping is kinda like a worse version of ROB's laser camping in the way he can just use it to play long range keepaway from the ICs and convince them to not get cheeky with desynch keepaway strategies.

Mario also plays better keepaway with fireballs than the Ice Climbers, and can Cape Blizzard to counter it on a read. The ICs are pretty bad at punishing Mario's aerial spacing and pressure strings as well. Separating the ICs is actually a little tricky for him if he doesn't shield poke them with D-air, but they can't really punish D-air that well.

The characters I mentioned already were pretty decent against the ICs in regular Brawl, even factoring the fact that they had infinites, and all the characters I mentioned also got significantly better in some way. The ICs do get more reward for their non-grab related strategies though, although I feel that the characters I mentioned here are pretty good at avoiding a decent number of the ICs powered up moves through superior spacing.

 

[Xyless]

I was told by one of my friends that someone on the GDC CA team is the leader of BBrawl. Whoever that is (Thinka I'm looking at you), you better see this and PM me or something. We gotta hang, leader a leader.

 

[Igni3]

Hi.
How I can play Balanced Brawl v2 in Gecko or Neogamma?
The gameconfig.txt doesn't work now...

 

[Igni3]

Hi.
How I can play Balanced Brawl v2 in Gecko or Neogamma?
The gameconfig.txt doesn't work now...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

First of all, don't double post.

Second, I haven't a clue what Neogamma is.

Third, I'm guessing you're using a backup of some sort, which means that I haven't a clue how to make it work with Gecko.

 

[Igni3]

Hi.
Anyone knows if the current Balanced Brawl RC 1 works with PAL SSBB?

 

[Korpocalypse]

I got so excited for this until i read the changes to falco (the first character I looked at)
What I'm looking for is a game that IS brawl, not as close as possible, where all characters are viable. headscratchers listen up. The only changes made would be to the amount of damage that attacks do. Lots of testing would be involved, but it would be fantastic because the game would remain unchanged except the characters would actually be balanced! IC's still have that chaingrab, however lol.
For example, most of ike's attacks would probably have to do around 40-60 and most of metaknights attacks wouldhave to do around 1-3. is there any way I can push for a project of this nature? or create one myself?

 

[Last Elixir]

I got so excited for this until i read the changes to falco (the first character I looked at)
What I'm looking for is a game that IS brawl, not as close as possible, where all characters are viable. headscratchers listen up. The only changes made would be to the amount of damage that attacks do. Lots of testing would be involved, but it would be fantastic because the game would remain unchanged except the characters would actually be balanced! IC's still have that chaingrab, however lol.
For example, most of ike's attacks would probably have to do around 40-60 and most of metaknights attacks wouldhave to do around 1-3. is there any way I can push for a project of this nature? or create one myself?

It sounds like you have not thought this through very much, if at all. Simply changing damage like that but retaining the problems that many characters face would make the game a lot less fun, and not accomplish anything.

 

[Ghostbone]

Only changing damage would never balance certain match-ups, like DK vs D3, IC vs Ganon, etc.

 

[wavesofwar74]

Code Combination?

Hi, I'm trying to use Balanced Brawl at the same time as custom stages and ASF1nk's custom stage/character selection because it allows for individual selection of pokemon/ZSS. Does anyone know which codes do what exactly, so I could try combining the two different sets? Or is there some other way to make this work? Thanks for your time!

 

[Korpocalypse]

Only changing damage would never balance certain match-ups, like DK vs D3, IC vs Ganon, etc.

It sounds like you have not thought this through very much, if at all. Simply changing damage like that but retaining the problems that many characters face would make the game a lot less fun, and not accomplish anything.

i just care too much about retaining all the aspects of every attack of every character, to keep the game the same. I'm one of those people who hates when the game changes after release, i.e. patches, fixes, balancing updates, (unless there's like a huge gamebreaking glitch), just because I hate having to relearn anything and I tend to like the game how it is.
anyway is there any way I can push for a project of this nature? or create one myself?

 

[Last Elixir]

i just care too much about retaining all the aspects of every attack of every character, to keep the game the same. I'm one of those people who hates when the game changes after release, i.e. patches, fixes, balancing updates, (unless there's like a huge gamebreaking glitch), just because I hate having to relearn anything and I tend to like the game how it is.
anyway is there any way I can push for a project of this nature? or create one myself?

Probably not from people that are fans of this project that actually tries to balance the game. But if you wanna change how much damage everything does and see if that's fun, it's probably a lot easier than what's happening here anyway! It seems like you're really onto something with this idea of giving Ike some attacks that deal 40% damage so he only needs to hit you like 3 times to win, I think you should implement it and show it to your friends.

Hi, I'm trying to use Balanced Brawl at the same time as custom stages and ASF1nk's custom stage/character selection because it allows for individual selection of pokemon/ZSS. Does anyone know which codes do what exactly, so I could try combining the two different sets? Or is there some other way to make this work? Thanks for your time!

You need a program like GCTedit, and just open the GCT file for BBrawl, then add in the CSS code. I'm pretty sure it should be as simple as that seeing as BBrawl doesn't use a CSS itself. Anything necessary for custom stages should also work fine with BBrawl 3, since it no longer uses a unique stage selection menu either.

 

[wavesofwar74]

You need a program like GCTedit, and just open the GCT file for BBrawl, then add in the CSS code. I'm pretty sure it should be as simple as that seeing as BBrawl doesn't use a CSS itself. Anything necessary for custom stages should also work fine with BBrawl 3, since it no longer uses a unique stage selection menu either.

Awesome, that worked perfectly. Thanks for the help!

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Damage is a part of the knockback formula anyway and affects priority. There's no way to change the game at all without changing how characters play to some extent. BBrawl does, however, keep the basic playstyles of all characters in-tact (except arguably Ice Climbers), and while there's some stuff to learn, it's really not that hard. If you really do just hate changes of all sorts though, I'm not sure a patch that changes the game is really for you regardless of content.

 

[Igni3]

Hi Amazing Ampharos.
I have a question for you, I don't wanna sound exigent.
Balanced Brawl 3 PAL will work in Gecko OS like Balanced Brawl Standard Release?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Thinkaman]

Hi Amazing Ampharos.
I have a question for you, I don't wanna sound exigent.
Balanced Brawl 3 PAL will work in Gecko OS like Balanced Brawl Standard Release?

Thanks in advance.

I'll get around to making BBrawl3 PAL files after we finalize the release.

 

[Thinkaman]

[obligatory April Fool's joke suggesting asinine changes goes here]

 

[ぱみゅ]

[Obligatory questions about v3 after bump goes here]

btw, you should look this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12464099
It may be useful.