Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[SmashBrother2008]

I see: vBrawl = Original Brawl. As long as I can use my Smash skills in both versions I'll be happy. Thank you.

 

[JOE!]

Hmn, yeah..Yoshi would be great with a kill setup into his Uair or such...

also, are there further plans for ivy? She is the weak link of sorts in the PT team...and even with the better recovery, it is still horribly easy for everyone just to roll over her..

 

[Steeler]

better bullet seed maybe. idk i don't want it to become like a vbrawl mach tornado.

stronger or faster vine whip sourspot? would give ivy a good anti air when facing forward. fair is almost too slow and combined with ivy's terrible air speed, it's just outclassed in almost every way by bair now

maybe make the dthrow a little better for follow ups at low percent. helps ivy fill that role of great damage racker to switch off to zard's ko power. i don't know why i never thought of this before but it sounds pretty good to me.

which reminds me, maybe stronger zard ftilt sourspot.

 

[Lokee]

Id leave bullet seed alone, but I like Dthrow and sourspot vinewhip for what you said and the whip could help with perhaps stage spiking or attacking while recovering.

With Fair Id say make it kill a bit better to distinguish it from Bair

Ivy is "suppose" to be the damage racking of the Pokes so she should have more setups for comboing but personally I want something to be done a bit with Razor Leaf.

 

[Steeler]

maybe a vertical trajectory on the leaf to give ivy more time to set stuff up

 

[JOE!]

hold on, if Ivy is the damage racker, what is Squirtle's role?

as for Ivy, something with Fair and Razor leaf I could see working as I see her more as the ranged fighter of the trio...and as it stands her ranged attacks arent too spectacular.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The way the Pokemon Trainer is, I don't think asking about roles is an appropriate question.

Squirtle dominates EVERYTHING besides recovery and weight. He has the best ground game, air game, approach, safe damage output and KO moves out of all three Pokemon.

If the Pokemon Trainer were to actually be made so that all three Pokemon were to have specific roles AND so that the character as a whole was competitively viable, Squirtle would have to be nerfed considerably in some areas, the other two would need some other random buffs, and switching would have to have like no penalty.

The only real solution that isn't going to drastically change what needs to be learned is just making all three Pokemon solid competitive characters, hindered and helped by the mechanics of switching.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I've been thinking, one thing that really makes some MK MU's bad is that they have little to do against him d-airing them to death, it makes me think that MK's D-air should have a little higher angle.

 

[Lokee]

hold on, if Ivy is the damage racker, what is Squirtle's role?

as for Ivy, something with Fair and Razor leaf I could see working as I see her more as the ranged fighter of the trio...and as it stands her ranged attacks arent too spectacular.

Good point, so let me see if I can boil it down into sections
Ok it could be like this
Weight: Squirtle light/ Ivy is mid/ Zard is heavy
Attackspeed: Squirtle highspeed/ Ivy is midspeed/ Zard is mid to slowspeed
Size: Squirtle is small/ Ivy is medium/ Zard is large
Range: Squirtle below to average/ Ivy has average to long/ Zard has average to longe
Recovery: Squirtle average, Ivy poor , Charizard slightly above average
Overall Mobility: Squirtle high / Ivy below average / Zard has average
Benefits from Type factor: benefits Squirtle / hinders Ivy / doesnt really affect Zard
Priority: Squirtle has high/ Ivy has average/ Zard has average
Kill ability: Squirtle Low/ Ivy High/ Zard High
Kill Reliability: Squirtle above average/ Ivy below average/ Zard average
Damage Racking/Combos: Squirtle above average/ Ivy average/ Zard below average

There are inconsistencies in the inward team balanced obviously going from Squirt as the best Zard as the Average and Ivy as the weakest

This may be on the hardest character to balance as we have to balance the team within itself and outside itself.

It would have seem that Ivy should have been the inbetween Pokemon with balances of power speed and range and could have been the projectile user unfortunately they kinda messed that one up cause of the poor aerial mobility and average at best projectile.

Edit: also I opened Ivys Razor Leaf hitboxes of which are 3 for some reason and change the angle to 270 or directly down and got really wierd results like characters on the ground hit by it flinch very long and also cause extremely high knockback situations at higher % (It kills and shoots a grouded Mario directly up)

 

[Steeler]

hmmm how are you looking at the razor leaf hitboxes? i'd like to highlight them to show what exactly they are

also try a vertical angle and see how that goes

i think buffing the dthrow and razor leaf would fit best with ivysaur. maybe just more damage to the razor leaf (it currently does 8% max). it's a pretty slow projectile and ivysaur's animation for the move is slow (projectile out on frame 22, ivysaur in cooldown until frame 50). it's just not a very good projectile and is unsafe in a lot of situations. i'd like for it to be a move where ivy can throw it out and then react to how the opponent deals with it...without speeding up the leaf or ivysaur, it's always going to be really slow and impractical for traditional projectile "camping" so i think that's the best direction for the move. maybe giving it more shield scrape and shield stun (it is a "razor" after all).

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've been thinking, one thing that really makes some MK MU's bad is that they have little to do against him d-airing them to death, it makes me think that MK's D-air should have a little higher angle.

To be fair, it's also harder for MK to get you far enough offstage for him to really destroy you with gimps, since he relies a fair bit on D-smash and Up-B not just to gimp, but to do the heavy work for pushing you offstage.

I think MK is a fair character in this game. Clearly one of the best, but I don't think his advantages are going to be unworkable for properly buffed BBrawl characters. Anyone that's losing a lot to him however probably isn't very good and needs to be looked at carefully, and generally speaking from my observation, they're probably losing because they don't have a very good way of approaching or killing him safely.

Olimar I think for example beats MK in BBrawl even though D-air edgeguarding destroys his recovery when done correctly. MK doesn't hit him hard enough to force Olimar into the position to be easily gimped at low percents, and Olimar forces MK to approach through camping, and MK's approach happens to be directly countered by Olimar due to MK's relatively low aerial top speed outside of committed moves, and Tornado has basically negative reward against Olimar for the large part.

I don't feel Link does horribly against MK anymore either (although he's still disadvantaged), since he can really now be a threat in close range with his Up-B (not to mention those improved F-tilt and D-tilt), but I think Ness and Lucas probably have significant problems against MK due to getting solidly outzoned, not really having a real way to kill MK or do very massive damage to him easily when they do get in, and because their relatively slow, floaty, and committed recovery leaves them easy targets for being gimped.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Ness's fair beats MK's entire moveset air to air. On the ground, Ness is one of the rare characters who has a flat out better grab game than Meta Knight by actually matching his grab speed and having that ridiculous dash grab, and Ness outranges Meta Knight's entire grounded moveset (except Shuttle Loop I think) with yoyos. Ness is in a lot of trouble if he has to recover with Pk Thunder against Meta Knight when Meta Knight is close (just hit the ledge or force Meta Knight to hit you toward the middle of the stage from a high recovery PK Thunder if Meta Knight is not close; it's not hard), but his amazing double jump puts him in a pretty good situation as long as he can make it back with just that (which is actually very common). I find it very hard to believe that Ness has particular problems with Meta Knight; it was never really that bad in the first place.

As per Lucas, I'm really not sure how that one plays out. Lucas definitely has some good stuff against Meta Knight, including a ridiculously hard to gimp recovery as long as Lucas maintains his double jump and utilizes his crazy recovery glitches instead of Pk Thunder, but I can see some of Meta Knight's good stuff being pretty hard for someone like Lucas to deal with. I'm skeptical it's really that bad either way though; Lucas has an all around generally solid set of tools. Just this weekend, among other things, I was really reminded that Lucas's up tilt is actually a pretty good move and that between jab/ftilt/utilt/dtilt Lucas is seriously very good at close quarters combat. As G&W, I really get the feeling that when I'm very close to Lucas my only viable option is using Fire to run away because his close quarters combat game is just so good while mine is kinda mediocre. I doubt anyone who isn't pretty much Sheik or Fox class at that sort of thing is going to really be beating out Lucas at very close ranges. MK in particular is going to have to just rely on ftilts; Lucas just has a wider set of options in those situations.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I really think you are overestimating the range of those two characters. Ness's F-air doesn't beat MK's entire moveset, and MK's D-tilt (which in fact outranges G&W's or Marth's) pretty much shuts down virtually every other ground game besides like Snake's and can combo into his grab/D-smash. Metaknight is not just known for insane aerial options, but for but for having one of the most unbreakable ground games in Brawl. Most of Ness's options especially on the ground have bad range and are not very safe.

Lucas similarly just gets plain outclassed at poking. MK does it better and with more reward (since he combos off of moves better), and he has the added benefit of Lucas having a slow grab. MK's U-air and F-air beat pretty much everything Lucas does in the air when correctly spaced. What can Lucas do when he gets in range? His Jabs, grabs, N-airs, F-airs all don't lead into anything, and for the most part don't kill (D-throw kills at fairly high percents). Even if this character does have just enough mobility to get in from time to time, his reward is very seriously lacking for how much trouble MK gives this character, especially since MK has good edgeguards on Lucas, but not the other way around.

 

[CarVac]

The problem with Ness's fair is that while it may outrange many of MK's aerials, the largest hitboxes are the weakest and do very little damage. You must realize that you have connected with the move, and then aerial-control forward into the opponent to do any real damage, unlike MK's disjointed, transcendent sword attacks which don't seem to weaken toward the tip.

In addition, his fair outranges everything only when retreated. This allows nearly impenetrable defensive walls, but by attacking with fair he puts himself at risk.

It ends up as MK dealing slightly more damage in the long run than Ness does. Luckily, Ness has some good killing moves and is heavier, but once offstage he loses to the gimp machine.

I don't seem to use grab that much vs. MK, especially because MK can stay in the air and spam dair and fair to keep a grabber away.

 

[JOE!]

Anywho, as for ivysaur...

how shoudl Razor Leaf be buffed, exactly? Would it be more benificial to do more damage, or it be faster (akin to Weegee's buff?)

 

[Linkshot]

I'd say 1 or 2 more damage tacked on.

 

[Lokee]

Anywho, as for ivysaur...

how shoudl Razor Leaf be buffed, exactly? Would it be more benificial to do more damage, or it be faster (akin to Weegee's buff?)

Id say faster so its more useful while recovering but more damage is fine i guess

hmmm how are you looking at the razor leaf hitboxes? i'd like to highlight them to show what exactly they are

I forgot to answer this. Anyway I used this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257755

In Smash Attacks open Ivy go to Sub Routines type "17248" in offset hit go and it should show you 3 hitboxes probably the 3 random paths razor leaf travels

 

[Steeler]

you could make razor leaf slower too, lol. it'd be like guile's sonic boom in SF4.

thanks lokee. i hope someone finds a way to do that with rock smash shards.

the mother boy v MK matchups are fine. maybe 40:60 at worst but that's acceptable.

i'm thinking that maybe we could do something with ness' yoyos to make them more viable in more matchups. maybe just make it so they get stronger as they charge? only smash attacks besides snake mortar that doesn't scale in damage with charging.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The Mother Boys are still really easy to gimp for MK. >.>

I know that Lucas never really had any whornado problems, it's just that Lucas can't deal with a d-airing MK very well, Lucas has no good options for when an oponent is above him.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I really am thinking Jigglypuff beats Lucas too. In both standard and Balanced Brawl.

This character is stupidly hard for Lucas to kill because most of Lucas's kill power is in situational grounded moves, and because Jigglypuff also refuses to get gimped easily, AND she kills Lucas easily with gimps.

If anything, I really think that Lucas does need a N-air setup into U-air (and U-airs knockback needs a buff too).

 

[Steeler]

oh about the different pokemon types and the "roles" they fill

all that matters is how these different types do against other characters and that there isn't any matchup where all three are dominated or they destroy the opponent. ivysaur's going to be better than squirtle against characters like luigi, mario, ganondorf, dk, and captain falcon, characters with approaches that ivy can punish and lack better camping/zoning. squirtle's the best against samus and the like, characters that depend on keepaway. charizard strikes me as a character that focuses on punishing approaches on his shield with his awesome OoS options and zoning the rest of the time, while looking for an opening to punish something and get some serious reward. zard doesn't have to run away nearly as much as ivy does. he does best against the same characters that ivy does and struggles against similar characters too, characters that have excellent keep away games, like samus and falco.

actually, ivy is a samus without the amazing zoning game and much worse OoS options. seriously, all ivy has is bair (which is a good move now, thankfully). nair only works against characters or players that can't space more than one ivysaur body length away on shield. zard is a dedede without the **** tech chase/chain grab. squirtle is like a hyper wario/mario.

and this is okay, it makes sense for these characters to be inferior to others in the cast due to how PT works but it can be a problem in some matchups with characters that are simply too stacked (SNAKE for example).

anyway i'd like to see a reworked stamina timer before any more individual pokemon changes. abusing it is too powerful in some matchups, and the timer encourages opponents to just run away as much as possible. ivysaur and charizard are fairly similar when you compare their matchup spreads, imo, and squirtle counterbalances that. but if you can run/plank against squirtle (and squirtle is not good at anti-plank) then you effectively neutralize and eliminate that matchup, and then focus on beating poorer versions of dedede and samus.

edit lucas uair buff would be cool. or maybe a fair buff? that move really is quite disjointed for lucas, being able to throw it out with good spacing when the opponent is a KO percent sounds good. but i don't really think lucas needs the help right now.

 

[Linkshot]

I will support fAir becoming a kill move. It kills late already, but it should be more powerful. I suggest...damage buff, as opposed to KB.

 

[IrohDW]

I agree with steeler in that stamina needs to be reworked. I think it would be best if it was changed so that standing still restores stamina instead of diminishing it. This would make planking a bad strategy while still leaving the stamina system largely intact.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lucas is in a similar position to the PT in that he clearly has some fundamentally unfavorable matchups even if he's not persay outright horrible overall. Snake is still awful for Lucas when you have him surviving to 180% most stocks and killing Lucas at like 110% and dealing that damage much faster than Lucas can. MK also outdamages Lucas and instead of killing him, he does fine just gimping Lucas's fairly predictable and committed recovery while fearing little that Lucas may through at him since none of it leads to kills. G&W also outspaces and gimps him while Lucas suffers at landing anything that kills G&W easily. And I mentioned Jigglypuff because Jigglypuff isn't exactly considered amazing, and yet she almost perfectly exploits Lucas's limitations and wins against him. And in case you're wondering, Lucas vs Jigglypuff is in fact a matchup I've played quite a bit.

His worst matchups suffer from the same problems. He can't kill anything reliably because his best aerials are too weak and because he's not very powerful at capitalizing on disadvantageous positions (like his problems punishing people who roll away, or just being unable to juggle anything consistently).

Most of his glaring matchup problems would be balanced handily by giving him a reliable aerial setup in N-air (which is a fairly safe and easy move to land in any matchup) that forces an airdodge due to the threat of getting hit by a U-air (and in case they airdodge, he now has a good chance of legitimately "techchasing" into a grab, PKF, or another aerial). His already good matchups aren't really going to be heavily affected by this, since any matchup he does good in is probably more because his ground game and F-air poking is effective. In matchups where it's not very effective, he has little that threatens his opponent otherwise, and this buff aims to correct that.

 

[Lokee]

Is it even possible to mess with Pokemon Trainer's Stamina cause I would definitely love a system where if you stand still it heals stamina creating Stamina Mindgames

Concerning Ivysaur I would focus on the following moves:
Razor leaf: either causes more damage or has more knockback/better angle to take advantage of it.
Fair- make it kill a bit lower
Vinewhip- increase the knockback for the souspot
Down Throw- create a better angle or less knocback for more followups

Other changes
Dair- Perhaps make all the hitboxes spike?
Pummel- More damage?

Also for Ness is there anyway to make it so PK fire either always triggers or triggers on shield no matter what

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Ness PK Fire triggering on shields sounds really, really awesome. I dunno if AA would like that sort of change, but I know I do.

I remember AmazingAmpharos noting a change to Bullet Seed he was planning on introducing. I don't know if he's still going through with it, but that in itself helped Ivy. After that, a change to LASER LEAF would be nice.

Charizard also needs some improvement imo. Not as much as Ivy, though.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I am going to do the public reveal here on what's going on, why things have been so slow. This means I really have to think about the direction of this project.

Thinkaman apparently got a job and moved out to California without telling much of anyone. Other than the not telling anyone part, I can't blame him for that (I would do the same thing), but it's probably safe to assume he's done with a project like this (he's working in the game industry). He didn't post much so maybe you guys didn't realize it, but he was very, very important, not less important to this project than I am. He did half the work and provided a lot of design insights. You guys made claims like "Ganon is useless" or "R.O.B.'s dthrow is completely stupid", and we worked together to decide which ones were hyperbole and which were really onto something (#1 is hyperbole, #2 is onto something was the conclusion).

So basically now I have this major project on my hands alone. That could make things hard for a few reasons. I'll do my best, but when suddenly your development team no longer meets the formal definition of "team", things get hard... I am going to make sure quality doesn't suffer, but expect a slow schedule because, you know, I'm just one guy, and I do like to do things other than work on Balanced Brawl.

 

[IrohDW]

You don't have to work on the next release by yourself. Instead you could find someone that shares your goals and knows PSA well enough to help get this done.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

AA, I'm sure you can find someone to help you; you're in the WBR, so you can start there seeing if you can actually get someone to help. RocketPSI seems like a good choice, as any.

But anyway, even if you can't find someone suitable, I'll still be waiting for the next release patiently.

edit: I'm also all for Linkshot's suggestion of having us playtest to save you time.

 

[Linkshot]

Hm. I should pay more attention, then.

I'm sure you'll have us to bounce ideas off of when you need them.

I'm up for bein' somewhat of a playtester (though I'm already a playtester in Brawl Minus, I can handle this, too), seeing what succeeds, what fails, and what plain doesn't even do anything due to bugs.

As many people have pointed out, the project might need to open up a little bit to timing changes and the like; I think what only needs to be preserved is the raw base of the game: physics, stale moves, hitlag, hitstun, shields, etc.

I know it's supposed to be easy to adjust to, but don't other patches make "radical" frame changes sometimes?

 

[ぱみゅ]

AA: you know, it's understandable that you want to develop this by yourself because, well, you're the only designer left; and your walls of text are always interesting readings stating well the why and why-not on making changes.

BUT you're still an human, and try get all the duty alone is just a long-run VERY bad idea.
You better get some help, because this is a project with input and moreover, support; I'm sure there's some people out there that would be pleased on being part of this.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Opening things up for testing is pretty likely; expect developments on that regard in the relatively near future. The model I anticipate is putting out the complete set of files for download and then releasing changed files every so often with notes about what sort of things would need testing. Like on the internal build right now, Charizard's jab1 links to his jab2 now (except when he's fatigued). This has one obvious balance implication (Charizard can go for jabs a lot more!), but it has probably other subtle things (who knows what jab cancel gimmicks he has now?). If this were already a part of the model, I'd release a FitLizardon.pac and say "you guys should look into how this new jab works" and how good Charizard is with this.

My main concern is that such a thing could really take the wind out of the sails of the eventual release. Marketing is a very, very big concern; this project needs to become more successful, and I don't think most things we discuss in this topic are relevant (regardless of who is right about how good Ganondorf is or how his balance is shifted, he's not the reason it's hard to gain traction, as an example). I was planning on relying on Thinkaman for some of this stuff; I'll need to develop a new plan soon in making the greatest marketing blitz in the history of fan projects. The goals are:

-Needs to reach a wide audience.
-Needs to demonstrate how easy playing is (like how it's easy to get running on any Wii).
-Needs to demonstrate improvements over standard Brawl that make people want to play.
-Needs to demonstrate the lack of downsides to playing this.

It's pretty tough.

On another note, I don't think bringing in someone else as a real developer would be wise. I don't really need someone for coding stuff unless they're actually a legitimate programmer (as in better than I am at least). I can handle design decisions, and I don't really think I can be, um, trusting of most people to make the sorts of final calls in terms of design decisions this sort of project requires. I could really go into it, but I'll just say there are some things I don't want this project to turn into that a populist design philosophy would quickly create.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It seems Brawl- has more vids than Balanced Brawl despite being a newer project.

Yeah...

 

[Lokee]

Man that sux, It goes without saying the project hit a speedbump but reguardless one must strive forward and complete what needs to be completed.

Marketing will be difficult no doubt. I can almost imagine a 'Wii would like to Play" spoof of somekind. In essence though BBrawl will be a double edged sword in this reguard.

On one hand you have the raw gameplay of a game that is already tournament standard so shifting between the two is simple. Then you have the Balance factor which is always nice and is the essential point of this project.
Same game near perfect balance in short the competitive environment of Brawl established with a harmony between its characters, gameplay, and stages.

Then you have the hurdles. Its basically a hack which many are still insecure about. The fact that its a hack people would expect more like outlandish things and such. The general complaints that come with making decisions of balance and changes coupled with the restictions of the project. Also most threatening of all the fact of other projects existances most notably Brawl+ and Project M which will compete with this project to become the standard and offer more dramatic changes that can easily lure people in and eventually cause a divide in the community.

There a number of methods of getting the word out and hooking potenial players:
Have a centralized place for the project eg: a site, blog, forum etc.
Have a video channel dedicated to hosting gameplay videos of the project. Basically get more of these videoes into the world.
Visual advertisement such as your Signatures, banners, images of anykind.
Spread the word, there is nothing like word of mouth to get things going.
Present the project at signifgant social events for publicity and host tournaments and display its results
Let the community feel like they are taking part in creating the project eg: playtesting, coding etc.
Offer Nintendo friendly Faq services for the more confused and the curious

and thats my 25 cents.

 

[camzy]

Opening things up for testing is pretty likely; expect developments on that regard in the relatively near future. The model I anticipate is putting out the complete set of files for download and then releasing changed files every so often with notes about what sort of things would need testing. Like on the internal build right now, Charizard's jab1 links to his jab2 now (except when he's fatigued). This has one obvious balance implication (Charizard can go for jabs a lot more!), but it has probably other subtle things (who knows what jab cancel gimmicks he has now?). If this were already a part of the model, I'd release a FitLizardon.pac and say "you guys should look into how this new jab works" and how good Charizard is with this.

My main concern is that such a thing could really take the wind out of the sails of the eventual release. Marketing is a very, very big concern; this project needs to become more successful, and I don't think most things we discuss in this topic are relevant (regardless of who is right about how good Ganondorf is or how his balance is shifted, he's not the reason it's hard to gain traction, as an example). I was planning on relying on Thinkaman for some of this stuff; I'll need to develop a new plan soon in making the greatest marketing blitz in the history of fan projects. The goals are:

-Needs to reach a wide audience.
-Needs to demonstrate how easy playing is (like how it's easy to get running on any Wii).
-Needs to demonstrate improvements over standard Brawl that make people want to play.
-Needs to demonstrate the lack of downsides to playing this.

It's pretty tough.

On another note, I don't think bringing in someone else as a real developer would be wise. I don't really need someone for coding stuff unless they're actually a legitimate programmer (as in better than I am at least). I can handle design decisions, and I don't really think I can be, um, trusting of most people to make the sorts of final calls in terms of design decisions this sort of project requires. I could really go into it, but I'll just say there are some things I don't want this project to turn into that a populist design philosophy would quickly create.

May I suggest including a couple of cosmetic changes?

A new CSS, included textures, custom stages?

Currently, people new to the brawl hacking scene don't have any of these things in a ready made SD pack and it would help make BBrawl become a more interesting pack which new players will look to download.

I know that was the first reason I came to join brawl hacking. Nice textures, customs stages and other cosmetic stuff. I just stumbled across BBrawl and thought it was a great idea and have played it non-stop since.

Maybe you've got to let go of this uber serious "keep the game the same" mindset. Because textures, custom stages and a new CSS aren't going to change the game. Well the stages might, but they're the expansion ones so are just for fun.

 

[Linkshot]

bBrawl does have the advantage of having the most beautiful compilation at the moment.

A channel dedicated to bBrawl would be great.

A video demonstrating the ease of access involved in loading it would be even better.

And, maybe in a future, in-depth videos for each character, illustrating changes to the characters, and general changes that affect them most.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I wouldn't mind a channel like that; back on another website they had gameplay videos on a single channel that I ended up mostly uploading, with a couple of other people doing it on rarer occasions. If AA wants to set something up, I would be happy to use my video tools to help.

If not, I'll just keep on uploading to my own channel.

 

[JOE!]

It seems Brawl- has more vids than Balanced Brawl despite being a newer project.

Yeah...

this really surprises you?

It is such a **** shocker that the project THAT MAKES BIG, FLASHY, SILLY CHANGES has more coverage than the one which is simply a patch for VBrawl to put it bluntly?


Anyways, yeah, we need something to catch people's attentions

 

[ぱみゅ]

Constant public updates, a game made to be ****ing funny, and making broken everyone and everything... yes, that really catches eyes...

Other than "people that like Brawl for what it is", i don't think many people can be interested on BB, unless we can do propper marketting...

 

[Eldiran]

I think (and/or hope) that the new WBR can really help fill some of the lost manpower for BBrawl. It's understandable that you should keep the designer duties to yourself -- it's hard to stay true to the strict adherence that BBrawl has with any kind of group think going on. (I very much approve of the strict adherence to vBrawl feel and gameplay, by the way.)

However, it may behoove you to bounce future design ideas off of the WBR or the public for alternate viewpoints to make up for Thinkaman's input. (Not that you don't already share some of the design ideas with us and put up with all our diverse suggestions.)

As for increasing popularity, in-depth character change videos would be great. Even just going back and editing the super-great compilation video with some text that lists the changes would be very nice. Also I concur that a well-recorded video tutoral for getting and using BBrawl on an unhacked Wii would be excellent.

Title screen and menu changes would be some welcomed visual refinement (though we already have a very nice title screen) and adding new stages would also be popular, I'm sure.

I think that perhaps we also garner a fair amount of attention by fixing harmful bugs and implementing the ledge grab/water limit.

But, yeah. Suffice to say, the WBR should likely be of assistance, and at the very least, I'm willing to provide any help I can. This project is what I always dreamed of since the day I learned Brawl could be hacked.