Q&A Bad Internet Ban (technical questions/fixes)

[TheDuke54]

They thought that was a good idea? What happens if the person who didn't ragequit loses? Do they lose their gsp then? Where does the winning gsp go?

I just had to do the 30 fighter challenge last night, with fighters I was terrible with. That was incredibly painful, especially the part where I just let the game finish for the remaining time it had left. It also didn't help because those fighters had lower gsp and I was getting paired up with the biggest cheese matches I had ever seen.

 

[Coolboy]

Sure, it is the ranking systems job to match up opponents as equally as possible to create challenging but fair fights. It does not accomplish that very well at the moment. A 100k going up against a 3 mil and it being a fair fight, which happens all the time if you're a high gsp player on a low ranked alt, is perfect proof of what garbage it is. Your alt should never be pushed to that low of a rating, but its literally holding you to a higher standard since your mains are highly ranked. This produces losses and sinks your alts rating way below where you actually belong.

the matching is still **** at times.. i have characters like Falco for example at low GSP...lately i just can't seem to do it with him online x.x
but still the matchmaking is like ''lets put this Falco player with people above 3 mil only!'' or when i had a team match as Zelda i get the noob player who is under 1 mil while me and the others were above 3 mil..and the noob just literally kept dying...i swear it can be annoying af at times...

 

[Sucumbio]

Ranking sucks.

Ignore your GSP and just play eventually you'll reach a threshold.

What happens if the person who didn't ragequit loses? Do they lose their gsp then? Where does the winning gsp go?

Again if anyone disconnects and the match successfully continues with cpu stand ins (which is a brawl era design and largely unchanged) the remaining players remain in play (attached to the lobby) and GSP is disregarded (0 change).

 

[Xquirtle]

And using characters other than your mains risking dropping your usual rating doesn't happen in other games?

You aren't following. Of course it does in other games. The problem in ultimate is that it continues to put you against players closer to your mains rank, which ofc you're going to lose to playing an alt for the first time, so it drives your rating down. Even when at the very bottom of the ladder, IT STILL does this, so your alt is just going to have a low win rate until you're closer in skill to your main. The point of a match making system is to find a place where you can have a 50% win rate, not to assign you players way out of your bracket and force you to have a 40% winrate until you get better.

This has the end result of good players having alts at 150k. Half the time they get "fair" matchups with people in the 3 millions who beat them due to lack of experience on the alt, and the other half of the time they beat the living snot out of actual 150k players.

 

[TheDuke54]

Yeah the gsp doesn't mean jack if you get paired with fighters who are really above or below your own gsp. When I was doing the 30 man challenge for quickplay to finish it up I was using fighters with start up gsp and getting people with high 3k. Was especially painful not really understanding the fighter too well and having the match being super cheesed.

There's no point of gsp if they're not going to go by the gsp at all and throw you with high 3k's because your main is there.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

I wager they might like to act like a **** to you. But this Smash Bros is the ultimate failure on online play so even without these time wasters it would be terrible anyways

 

[Madison Turner]

Hi friends! I ran into ChuDat online in elite smash matchmaking, and ended up just barely eking out a win. He didn't rematch, so I figured it probably wasn't him, but then I checked his stream and it was, so I was pretty happy about the win!

When I checked the VOD this morning of the match from his perspective, immediately after it starts he mentions that there is a bit of input lag, but that it seemed playable. Throughout the match, once or twice, he brings it up again and mentions it's causing him to play a bit slower than usual. Ultimately that's why he ended up not rematching.

On my end, I had the least lag, input or otherwise, that you can possibly have online.

This makes for a really unfair match! Do you all know if this happens regularly or often? I've been playing tons of online matches since release, and I was going under the assumption that everyone was experiencing the same lag, and this seems to disprove that.

For reference, I have a cat6 ethernet cable running from the modem/router to my room, into a 10/100/1000 ethernet hub, which then has cat6's that go into the LAN adapter on my Switch & on my PC. Switch runs out to an Elgato HD60S, then to the TV. With this setup, I get no stream drops, and generally don't get any lag in games except for certain matches.

 

[Sean²]

I guess it's possible your console was hosting the match. I know he's in MD/VA, so if you're quite a bit further from where he's at, it might become more one-sided. Or his definition of too much input lag is different than yours.

I don't think it's ever something super noticeable though, unless you're super far away from each other.

 

[Madison Turner]

I live in RVA, so it's not that far (about a 1.5-2 hr car trip). I've played a number of matches with people I know are much farther away with no lag (at least on my end, & they've rematched with no complaints &/or were streaming as well). I would also assume that it's not that we have different definitions of lag, but that we were having different experiences.

It would make sense if it were my console hosting the match, or I suppose if it's being hosted on a server much closer to me than to him. I don't know how Smash Ultimate's online specifically works; I was just under the assumption that if I were lagging, they were experiencing the same, and if there was no lag, then it was the same as well. As we've all probably experienced and felt, sometimes the lag comes in the form of a choppy game, sometimes in a game that halts every 5-10 seconds but is otherwise smooth, and sometimes in a smooth looking game with button/input delay. I just never considered that one player could have input delay and the other not.

 

[Sean²]

There are no dedicated game servers, so it’s all P2P. Meaning any time you match up with someone, or several others, one console is the host and acts as a temporary server for the game, and the other players connect to it. But when someone lags, you should both generally feel it. There are also a lot of other dependencies like how many hops it takes for that person to get to you, if you both are running on the same ISP/cable mainline, etc. There could have been added latency on his end due to his throughput also having to accommodate the stream upload, but I don’t know for sure.

I’ve always figured they use lag compensation to make it as evenly matched as possible, but could be wrong. I just know that in the past, when I’ve gotten matches with tons of input lag, you can tell the opponent does too. A lot of the time it’s like we read each other’s minds and go for the SD after a few test inputs with a 1+ second delay. But now I have no idea.

 

[Madison Turner]

There are no dedicated game servers, so it’s all P2P.

Thank you for answering this; I wasn't sure how the system was set up.

There could have been added latency on his end due to his throughput also having to accommodate the stream upload, but I don’t know for sure.

Both of us were currently streaming at the time. Both Twitch channels should have the saved videos too in case anyone wants to see & compare, though I don't think it'd be that helpful, particularly because it was input lag & so it looks exactly the same on both streams. The only difference is throughout the match, all I ask out loud a few times is if anyone could check and see if it was really ChuDat I was playing, and he just mentions out loud a few times that there's input lag (including right at the beginning of the match).

Also, when I have input delay or lag of any kind, I'll say something out loud for the stream much like ChuDat did, and I didn't mention that at all during this game.

But now I have no idea.

Same.

 

[Uffe]

If you're feeling lag, so is the other player.

 

[Coolboy]

in some matches i get the feel that my character does not do the things he was supposed to..this doesn't happen alot..but there was 1 match where i had to SD..cause my character literally responded so slow or did stuff he wasn't supposed to do while i did pressed the right buttons and stuff..i don't mind losing but if the lag is stopping me from even doing anything to my opponent i rather just have the match over and done..cause it will really frustrate me otherwise x.x

 

[Ethan Weegee]

I played a match where there was so much input lag, I swear it easily could've been almost a second. The other person did too, I think, because we both just went to SD and get out of that match.

 

[USAnyan]

The thing for me is that people do this last second. Which means even I outplay their walls upon walls of their spammy bs- I still get pretty screwed out of a proper reward for the trouble. Which is pretty upseting since it’s clear these people don’t have a clue on how to actually play the game.(as shown by the fact a few didn’t even touch A... or actually try to mix it up at all when they knew I figured things out).

I understand being match made with someone of a significant better skill set but that doesn’t mean you should just screw the other person you’re fighting out of(usually) a fair victory just because you can’t handle them- at that point I’d almost just recommend SDing.

 

[Sucumbio]

What I don't like is that disconnecting due to Internet trouble is treated the same as rage quitting.

 

[Crystanium]

So sometimes a match will be running perfectly smoothly, no lag or anything, actually feels nice to play. Then sometimes I’ll zero to death the first stock or go up by two stock or something and my opponent knows they’re going to loss (it only happens in these situations, never when I’m losing). When they’re sitting there about to respawn the game stalls for about 10-15 seconds (enough to make it so there’s no GSP gain or lose) and then everything runs perfectly smoothly again. Does this happen to anyone else? Is it an exploit people are employing to not lose GSP?

There was someone by the tag "TeslaStyle". I two-stocked his Wolf. Just before the result screen showed up, he left. I actually didn't gain any GSP, and he didn't lose any. I blocked him and reported him for cheating.

 

[TheDuke54]

What I don't like is that disconnecting due to Internet trouble is treated the same as rage quitting.

Dude this has happened to me a few times. Gets disheartening when you know your connection is fine, but somehow the server kicks you and probably all the others. I got a timed penalty once because of it.

 

[meleebrawler]

What I don't like is that disconnecting due to Internet trouble is treated the same as rage quitting.

Can you explain how to let the game differentiate a rage-quit and actual disconnect when they both involve abruptly cutting the connection?

I've never, ever been warned or penalized for bad connection disconnect that wasn't caused by folks turning on a microwave where I live. So you'll have to forgive me for being very skeptical of anyone always trying to pin these instances on their opponents or Nintendo. No connection is impervious to disruption no matter how stable it is in normal conditions.

 

[TheDuke54]

I haven't had it happen recently, so I can't be certain how exactly it goes, but there is a message that pops up during the match when you are kicked. Say for example the match starts 3-2-1-GO!!! Well it's normally there when the loading ball of doom happens. If it goes on too long you know the match kicked everyone. Some message pops up to say something along the lines of 'no match or whatever.' I wish it'd happen to me again, just so I could screen capture it or jot down exactly what the message says.

I know it's not just me that is kicked on some occasions, because back on Smash4 it'd happen just like this and I'd have to reconnect online and then join another game. And oddly enough I'd see some of the members who were in the kicked match. So they were kicked as well.

 

[Xquirtle]

The thing for me is that people do this last second. Which means even I outplay their walls upon walls of their spammy bs- I still get pretty screwed out of a proper reward for the trouble. Which is pretty upseting since it’s clear these people don’t have a clue on how to actually play the game.(as shown by the fact a few didn’t even touch A... or actually try to mix it up at all when they knew I figured things out).

I understand being match made with someone of a significant better skill set but that doesn’t mean you should just screw the other person you’re fighting out of(usually) a fair victory just because you can’t handle them- at that point I’d almost just recommend SDing.

Just a few? I would wager that at least half of the players online use nothing but C stick, tap jump, and the B button. Seems like 1 in 4 matches outside of elite are Ganons that actually can't play the game outside of their C stick and B button. Literally the venus fly trap strategy. I'm just gona charge up this huge hit box and hope that you run into it and die.

Its definitely annoying pushing through degenerates and getting robbed of your win.

Can you explain how to let the game differentiate a rage-quit and actual disconnect when they both involve abruptly cutting the connection?

I've never, ever been warned or penalized for bad connection disconnect that wasn't caused by folks turning on a microwave where I live. So you'll have to forgive me for being very skeptical of anyone always trying to pin these instances on their opponents or Nintendo. No connection is impervious to disruption no matter how stable it is in normal conditions.

Hes talking about a bug where the match never even starts. I've gotten two 45 minute bans for it as well. You get the spinning smash logo right as the stage loads and never even play a single second of the match. It obviously should not be treated as a malicious DC and should just be ignored by the game.

 

["Bn"]

Just a few? I would wager that at least half of the players online use nothing but C stick, tap jump, and the B button. Seems like 1 in 4 matches outside of elite are Ganons that actually can't play the game outside of their C stick and B button. Literally the venus fly trap strategy. I'm just gona charge up this huge hit box and hope that you run into it and die.

Its definitely annoying pushing through degenerates and getting robbed of your win.

Sadly, at least half the people I faced in elite smash where like this, probably because I'm on the European server lol. I stopped using quickplay quite a while ago and just set up 2 person rooms and title it "Best of 5 competitive". You get an opponent quickly, you can change characters, choose more stages, you don't have to worry about smash balls in the middle of 4 minute matches and there's no silly GSP to get confused and frustrated with.

That being said, it's still far from optimal and you still get some C-stickers trying their luck. However, mostly it's been a much more pleasant experience with a MUCH more diverse set of characters to face (Take this!).

R.I.P. For Glory....... No, really lol.

 

[Coolboy]

There was someone by the tag "TeslaStyle". I two-stocked his Wolf. Just before the result screen showed up, he left. I actually didn't gain any GSP, and he didn't lose any. I blocked him and reported him for cheating.

actually..he does lose GSP..it's just not visible on the screen. i got kicked out during a match once even though my connection was fine (stupid game -.-) so when i went back to character select screen my character did lose GSP! but lately there are alot of ragequitters online..i hate it when i win and i get no GSP makes me kinda annoyed tbh :l and it's easy to figure out who it is if i am playing with 2 or 3 other players

 

[Sucumbio]

Can you explain how to let the game differentiate a rage-quit and actual disconnect when they both involve abruptly cutting the connection?

I've never, ever been warned or penalized for bad connection disconnect that wasn't caused by folks turning on a microwave where I live. So you'll have to forgive me for being very skeptical of anyone always trying to pin these instances on their opponents or Nintendo. No connection is impervious to disruption no matter how stable it is in normal conditions.

Well one way could be to look at button inputs right before disconnect. As in did the user exit to the switch menu and close the game? I see your point but where I live I drop connection frequently so here lately I've had a lot of times where whenever I play I get a few matches, drop then get banned for an hour or 2.

 

[E.Sage]

Do people purposely Disconnect themselves online right before losing? Is that a thing? I've had 3 times today where I won a match, but right before I landed a killing blow there would be insane lag and than after the match had ended I wouldn't get any GSP for it. Those people were high in GSP too, like 4,100,000.

If so, that's really scummy, and shows what kind of a person they are. Is this something that's reportable? Because personally, I would consider that cheating..

 

[Coolboy]

what the game doesn't tell you is that the person who ragequits/disconnects will lose GSP the next time they start up the game they either get a warning/ half hour ban and when they get into the character selecting screen their character they played when ragequitting will have lower GSP then before so don't worry people are getting punished for it lol

 

[E.Sage]

what the game doesn't tell you is that the person who ragequits/disconnects will lose GSP the next time they start up the game they either get a warning/ half hour ban and when they get into the character selecting screen their character they played when ragequitting will have lower GSP then before so don't worry people are getting punished for it lol

Thanks for the reply. I didn't know that, but I actually reported those people that was obvious they disconnected on purpose.

 

[Ajimu]

Si, I decided to try and repair the ****ery I had previously done with my Fox (I main Snake, Yoshi and Belmonts but I do mess with everyone a bit).
I had a party few weeks ago, and we went online and screwed around and long story short my Fox was down to 100k GSP.
So I thought, I'm gonna get him back to a suitable level (2M was more than ok since it is one of my worst characters anyway).

And what do you know, at some point I had a series of 4 matches, 3 of which I won without earning a single GSP point (and my opponent's GSP didn't drop either).
Obviously the one I lost, I did drop in GSP...

I must say it is quite infuriating when you beat a Wi-Fi Ganon and it ends up being for naught.

I did notice an anomaly during those matches : at some point, it froze completely for 2-3 seconds, which was strange even with the actual lag of the matches. And it always happened right after I took a significant lead.

So I wonder :
1. Is this an exploit I've missed to not lose GSP ? If so, it's ****ed up for the guy who wins...
2. The matches continued after the freeze, and in one of them I thought that the opponent had switched his playstyle to a more traditional one than before, but thinking back I believe the second half felt like fighting a lvl9 CPU... is that even a thing ?

Does anyone have any info on this ?
Thanks!

 

[Sucumbio]

Si, I decided to try and repair the ****ery I had previously done with my Fox (I main Snake, Yoshi and Belmonts but I do mess with everyone a bit).
I had a party few weeks ago, and we went online and screwed around and long story short my Fox was down to 100k GSP.
So I thought, I'm gonna get him back to a suitable level (2M was more than ok since it is one of my worst characters anyway).

And what do you know, at some point I had a series of 4 matches, 3 of which I won without earning a single GSP point (and my opponent's GSP didn't drop either).
Obviously the one I lost, I did drop in GSP...

I must say it is quite infuriating when you beat a Wi-Fi Ganon and it ends up being for naught.

I did notice an anomaly during those matches : at some point, it froze completely for 2-3 seconds, which was strange even with the actual lag of the matches. And it always happened right after I took a significant lead.

So I wonder :
1. Is this an exploit I've missed to not lose GSP ? If so, it's ****ed up for the guy who wins...
2. The matches continued after the freeze, and in one of them I thought that the opponent had switched his playstyle to a more traditional one than before, but thinking back I believe the second half felt like fighting a lvl9 CPU... is that even a thing ?

Does anyone have any info on this ?
Thanks!

It's not an exploit.

 

[Darty]

Just had 2 of these, usually i report these people but after reporting the first i received the "You cannot submit any additional reports at this time." Absolutely ridiculous, Nintendo needs to fix it. Usually I get it after maybe getting a 0 to death on the first stock, but this most recent guy actually disconnected just after losing his last stock while the "GAME" text displays, so I got the smash ball at the bottom right, and after about 10 seconds we get to the post-game screen and sure enough I got no GSP. Its infuriating to deal with.

EDIT: people are asking if it's reportable - I would assume so, considering there's a category of reports for "Network Manipulation", which is what I put for all my reports against these people.

 

[Xquirtle]

Just had 2 of these, usually i report these people but after reporting the first i received the "You cannot submit any additional reports at this time." Absolutely ridiculous, Nintendo needs to fix it. Usually I get it after maybe getting a 0 to death on the first stock, but this most recent guy actually disconnected just after losing his last stock while the "GAME" text displays, so I got the smash ball at the bottom right, and after about 10 seconds we get to the post-game screen and sure enough I got no GSP. Its infuriating to deal with.

EDIT: people are asking if it's reportable - I would assume so, considering there's a category of reports for "Network Manipulation", which is what I put for all my reports against these people.

My only issue with punishing the people is that their intent is not clear. Also, the entire system is incredibly toxic. Like you get banned for SDing out of 1v1 matches on ****ing item stages or with trash rule sets? what a joke.

The solution is simple, stop trying to automate regulation of 'toxic' behavior such as SDing and idle (the idle timer is also incredibly low) and give the winner GSP no matter what. Who cares if it could be abused. The system is SO TRASH that GSP has no value anyway. It is OmegaLul that nintendo is trying to prevent exploits as if their ranking system means anything at all.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Well one way could be to look at button inputs right before disconnect. As in did the user exit to the switch menu and close the game? I see your point but where I live I drop connection frequently so here lately I've had a lot of times where whenever I play I get a few matches, drop then get banned for an hour or 2.

well everyone should always pull the "innocent until proven guilty" card.

 

[Sucumbio]

well everyone should always pull the "innocent until proven guilty" card.

Lol I guess. I called Nintendo a few times but they get mad when they have to admit they ****ed up.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Lol I guess. I called Nintendo a few times but they get mad when they have to admit they ****ed up.

You wager Nintendo is a disaster of a company if they can't satisfy customer wants?

 

[Xquirtle]

You wager Nintendo is a disaster of a company if they can't satisfy customer wants?

I think there is a fair argument that they actually are a disaster of a company. If you widen the window far enough, they have basically collapsed from a dominant giant to 3% of the console video gaming market share. All they do is sell novelty systems and super smash bros, and they can't even manage to cater to the fans of their most important video game.

They are way worse off than the SHOULD have been and they consistently stifle a major resurgence with their trash competitive online in smash. I specify smash because competitive online / ranked play is what drives the biggest games right now. It is the single most important aspect of any game other than gameplay itself.

 

[Deleted member]

How do we know it's a CPU taking over and not the player after a server error?

 

[Sucumbio]

You wager Nintendo is a disaster of a company if they can't satisfy customer wants?

Par for the course really. It's the number one console in Japan right now but American audiences have it differently so they market things differently.

How do we know it's a CPU taking over and not the player after a server error?

Just takes experience. After awhile you can tell cpus from regular players. They don't DI they miss obvious opportunities etc.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

I think there is a fair argument that they actually are a disaster of a company. If you widen the window far enough, they have basically collapsed from a dominant giant to 3% of the console video gaming market share. All they do is sell novelty systems and super smash bros, and they can't even manage to cater to the fans of their most important video game.

They are way worse off than the SHOULD have been and they consistently stifle a major resurgence with their trash competitive online in smash. I specify smash because competitive online / ranked play is what drives the biggest games right now. It is the single most important aspect of any game other than gameplay itself.

well I wager that many other people (especially this reddit user) agree, as we are just sick of seeing Nintendo **** up in every single thing that should've been an easy thing to implement.

Par for the course really. It's the number one console in Japan right now but American audiences have it differently so they market things differently.

Is the switch the number one selling console right now in japan or something? Console sales don't really indicate how good a company actually is, just that it's very popular or something.

 

[meleebrawler]

Is the switch the number one selling console right now in japan or something? Console sales don't really indicate how good a company actually is, just that it's very popular or something.

By this logic, you also can't condemn a company outright just for releasing a product you don't like, especially when many others do. Just acknowledge they're not for you and take your business elsewhere. If robust online features were that important you, you would have moved to another platform years ago. As it is, the Switch has many large single-player games that sold very well, so obviously the online is just not a factor or dealbreaker to many. Quite possible they already had a platform for their online needs.

Not to mention there's several different metrics besides products to measure how ''good'' a company is...

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

By this logic, you also can't condemn a company outright just for releasing a product you don't like, especially when many others do. Just acknowledge they're not for you and take your business elsewhere. If robust online features were that important you, you would have moved to another platform years ago. As it is, the Switch has many large single-player games that sold very well, so obviously the online is just not a factor or dealbreaker to many. Quite possible they already had a platform for their online needs.

Not to mention there's several different metrics besides products to measure how ''good'' a company is...

well i wager it's not so much that we don't like the product but more that Nintendo has demonstrated from time to time again that they are against taking advice on how to improve their products alongside making the products more accessible and easy to use. Pretty much all their products are riddled with random errors that make the game look like a 5 year old was in charge of it. It's like they're giving a "**** you" attitude whenever we complain about missing features.

Everyone likes the single player and local multiplayer content but the online is a disaster. When I said that sales don't indicate in my previous post, it was more of "they're a good indication but not the only indication and there are other ways to demonstrate how good a thing is." Just like how a video game selling well might not indicate it's a good game, a company who sells well may not indicate a good company. I wager that things sell because it's an ip, and that's also why people don't just switch to another console. People stick with Nintendo because they want Mario, Pokemon or another series they like. If that series was on playstation they would've picked playstation or something.

I'm not much of an online gamer myself but I can easily understand everyone who complains about the online because it's beyond a joke. There are nitpicky complaints that Nintendo shouldn't be obglitated to always follow (such as "why isn't this character playable" or "why can't we have a public messenging service such as Miiverse") but things that Microsoft and Sony always get correct such as messenging friends, having customizable controls or implementing voice chat in online play should be standard features.