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Bad Idea Mafia Redux! GAME OVER!

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
I jumped on the Chaco wagon cause he was suspicious and wasn't admitting to it. I didn't want him shot that early though...
OK but Chaco admitted himself that he was being ********. He seemed pretty aware that he made a mistake.

Which reminds me, why do you have Tom and os so high in your town list?
Teemo has a 1/10th chance of being scum. That and the fact that I got town vibes from most of his posts makes me pretty comfy with him for now. Depending on how EE blends in my opinion may change though.

In regards to Overswarm ... quite simply I have no reason to believe him to be scum whatsoever right now. At this point I'd rather shoot all of the people I have a null read on than him.

All the people that was on the Chaco wagon - Did you all REALLY found him scummy? Also, why didn't neither of you shoot him?
I voted Chaco very early - he was actually my first [and only] vote ever since we "established" votings in our game play. It kind of ... "snowballed" after that pretty quickly. I did find Chaco suspect but it wasn't his "gambit" [which he proposed after my vote].

It might sound hypocritical [and kind of misleading coming from me] but I think the votes after his gambit were less credible than mine >=(

:059:
 

Ronike

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
612
Liggys not a terrible play today, his last post took a lot of strong stands that we could work with if we knew his allignment. Plus his post doesn't really bring anything new to the table.

At this point my only other idea would be inactives, which is a route I don't really wanna go, so you inactives should step it up a notch (lookin at you Adum [give us something not related to os how bout?] and Mentos)

it is a tad early to be askin me who's the play tho, doncha think?

Also, to all who are saying I'm taking a backseat, uh yeah. I am. It's called 35 hours a week, plus 4th of July weekend and my birthday. Not to mention only being able to post from my phone. Fairly valid excuses methinks, and yet I've still got more posts that quite a few people, so why aren't you on their cases at all liggy and Nick?
 

ligolski

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
0
Location
NY
Liggys not a terrible play today, his last post took a lot of strong stands that we could work with if we knew his allignment. Plus his post doesn't really bring anything new to the table.

At this point my only other idea would be inactives, which is a route I don't really wanna go, so you inactives should step it up a notch (lookin at you Adum [give us something not related to os how bout?] and Mentos)

it is a tad early to be askin me who's the play tho, doncha think?

Also, to all who are saying I'm taking a backseat, uh yeah. I am. It's called 35 hours a week, plus 4th of July weekend and my birthday. Not to mention only being able to post from my phone. Fairly valid excuses methinks, and yet I've still got more posts that quite a few people, so why aren't you on their cases at all liggy and Nick?
I only mentioned your name ronike because I was asked to choose between a few names, i did point in my last post though that we should focus on some of the lurkers and inactives which you parrotted in this post, one of the names that strikes me is thedocsalive and why we haven't heard jack from him and only ever really suggested the voting system i believe, i think my argument for teemo being town is slightly new to bring to the table though
 

M.K

Level 55
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,033
Location
North Carolina
@Meta-Kirby: Do you seriously think Gheb was fishing for information? Lists aren't that useful to Town, but they really aren't useful for scum either, unless everyone or a at least a majority of town is making them.
Meh, yeah I really did. Like you said, they aren't useful to town or scum, so why was he doin' it?
It just stuck out to me and I had nobody else to go on. Chaco was being ********, duh....but yeah.
Honestly I agree with Rockin about the vote count. The very fact that Teemo (basically) hammered and how he wasn't on the vote count literally leaves us with no or very little information. Everyone on that wagon now can use the scapegoat of "I didn't really want him to be shot" because it happened, and it wasn't any of their doings (sorry, that's horrible grammar, but I'm too lazy to try and make a proper sentence >_>)
I still don't like Gheb, but....well, it'll always be in the back of my mind, but I might pursue other leads =/
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
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Oct 16, 2006
Messages
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Bronx, New York
Whoops, forgot to ask this

@ligolski, mentos, rockin, mccloud

Who out of the people Omni mentions do you find scummiest: Overswarm, Ronike, Eauxlune or Nick? Why do you think one of these is scummy? Is anybody out of them scummy? If not, who is? Do you think it's a good idea to look at Omni's posts like that and use it as basis for discussion?
I find Nich scummy for what I mentioned in my last post. I didn't like how he easily misread something after Omniddle looked at it (which led to Nich quickly joining in to vote) and then backed out when questioned/Tom explains what he meant.

I don't see much scumminess from Overswarm. I infact hardly see anything from him D1 and hope there would be more on D2. I think the same can go to Eauxlune, but it's more on the fact that this is my first time playing with him, so I'm unsure how he plays

Ronike thus far is semi town to me. I say semi cause I havn't seen anything scummy from him, but he shows to at least be scum hunting.

We can use what Omniddle has posted about, but we should also try to branch out on other topics to talk about as well. D1 ended really quick, so I want to further know what's going on in each player's head about D1, Teemo, Omniddle, and people they find scummy.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
Why did you brought it up in the first place? Do you want someone to pay attention to you?
Somewhat pointing out the fallacy of this vote count system. If this was any normal game and I laid a vote like that down randomly a bit into the day (not the beginning), i woulda def be questioned about it
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Just so everyone knows, I've updated the OP to reflect the flips of people who have been eliminated, and have added links to the starts and ends of each day at the bottom of the post for player convenience.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Rockin, is this going to be a repeat of SSB and Tree stump mafia from you?

Ronike, I don't have good meta on most of the lurkers. However, where I have meta I apply it, and with you, lurking = scum. Considering we haven't been playing for too long, it's not too big of a tell yet, but I've got my eye on you.
 

Ronike

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
612
...Nick have you even seen my meta since I lost internets? Cause I was inactive in tourney as well except when I was pushing nameclaim for advantageous use of my power. Cause I've always been about this active when I'm forced to use only my phone to post. Cause I always lurk if I have no leads.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
...Nick have you even seen my meta since I lost internets? Cause I was inactive in tourney as well except when I was pushing nameclaim for advantageous use of my power. Cause I've always been about this active when I'm forced to use only my phone to post. Cause I always lurk if I have no leads.
Can you give me some recent game examples to verify? Because no, I haven't seen it.
 

mentosman8

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
153
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Naperville, IL
Ok, well, first of all I'd like to say that I'm sorry I didn't post again post when my V/LA was up D1, bunch of holiday/work shenanigans and when I was next able to look it was night. Unfortunately me being stupid used the fact that it was night to put off catching up to get other stuff done that I needed to get done, and I still haven't read up>_>

Moral of the story is, I've got no work and nothing to do tomorrow, so I'll read up fully and get something together ASAP then. Not gonna try to do it today because I'm extremely tired and don't know how long I'll be able to stay up, but I'll definitely have something up by tomorrow.
 

Chuckie

Kataefi|vanderzant
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
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0
Location
an igloo
This is the main reason why I dislike the vote count system in this game. Each of us is a vig, so there's no need for this. Worst off, people pressured could look back at the list and say "Hey, I pressured ______ on __ so **** off!". I stressed this before, but I feel we should just come up with an agreement of who's scummy and have someone/ourselves shoot him. I feel that voting is a fake contribute in this game.
I agree, but if someone tries to play the "I'm voting so I'm contributing!" then we can use that.

All the people that was on the Chaco wagon - Did you all REALLY found him scummy? Also, why didn't neither of you shoot him?
His gambit would of done NOTHING to benefit Town, unless of course both Gheb and Chaco were town. Chaco even said he thought Gheb was Townie. And, obviously we didn't shoot for the same reason that we don't think Teemo should of shot. Too early.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
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Sickboi in the 401
Rockin the reason I didn't find Tom scummy is because of what he was saying lined up with how I was thinking of the current situation as well as knowing Tom as a GF wouldn't risk a shot D1. Doesn't make sense, to many variables.

Currently really want to look at

Eaux and Adum.

Something about them is rubbing me the wrong way, I'm going to make a reread.

Sorry about D1 being kind of hard for me, had a lot of stuff going on.

Don't worry though I'm here for good nows :).
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
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Messages
16,916
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Europe
Ronike thus far is semi town to me. I say semi cause I havn't seen anything scummy from him, but he shows to at least be scum hunting.
This is kind of ... interesting.

We have two conflicting points of view between Nick who apparently accuses Ronike of cosating and Rockin who gets town reads based on Ronike's scum hunting.

Maybe it's just me but that looks like a contradiction. And neither Rockin nor Nick seem to mind that major difference.

@Rockin

Can you point out specific posts where Ronike actively contributes and hunts scum to back up your claims? If he's behaviour is largely pro-town like you imply, why is he only semi- town to you? Are there any reads of him you particularily agree with?

@Nick

What makes you think Ronike is coasting? Why does it make him scummier than mentosman, eauxlune or xonar who have been fairly inactive all game? Do you have any issues with Rockin's attitude towards Ronike?

:059:
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
@Gheb
Lurking is a player-dependent scumtell. For example, if frozen or kirbyoshi lurks, it isn't a big scumtell, because they go inactive all the time. On the other hand, the meta I've seen of Ronike is that he's active when he's town, and isn't always active as scum. I have no issues with Rockin right now. I think he's wrong, but I also don't think that being wrong is unusual for him.
 

Chuckie

Kataefi|vanderzant
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Messages
0
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an igloo
I would say "Wii feel like", but I haven't discussed this post with ol' Vanzy yet. @Rockin/Meta:- How else can we collectively unite and observe people's commitments to their suspects if someone hammers early? So wouldn't you agree the voting system was designed to stop daykilling prematurely? Should Teemo be town, I believe it becomes ironic under the consideration they once said it's up to town's "cooperation" to beat the mafia's ability to handle the maths behind this setup and whittle the numbers down [from memory - because it's just too hot to type omg].
_

Also, I feel exchanges are being cut short:- Ronike/Swarm starting to feel scripted to me. Wii I think it should be looked into more. @Ronike:- didn't you state earlier your vote centred around Swarm making too easy a mistake you think he shouldn't have as DG's biggest rules lawyer? Why has the 'incident' overriden this? What are your current thoughts on Swarm now?
_

@Doc:-
We don't have time to just set aside everyone else in the game and have personal vendettas.

Vote: Chacotaco
Curiously, if you picked up on "personal vendettas" to support your vote on Chaco, what did you make of Ronike's willingness to have Swarm dead D1 for exactly such a reason? What are your current thoughts on Ronike?
 

thedocsalive

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
824
Location
Long Island, NY
Notice how there's 6 people on Chaco and none of them are Teemo (nor did any of those people are on the list shot him

This is the main reason why I dislike the vote count system in this game. Each of us is a vig, so there's no need for this. Worst off, people pressured could look back at the list and say "Hey, I pressured ______ on __ so **** off!". I stressed this before, but I feel we should just come up with an agreement of who's scummy and have someone/ourselves shoot him. I feel that voting is a fake contribute in this game.
There's a reason it's called Bad Idea Mafia. It's easy enough for town to mislynch in a normal game, but it's probably 10 times easier to mis-dayvig. We DO need some semblance of order and agreement, otherwise every townie/the GF would just kill someone that they are focused on. I thought "voting" would provide us with some organization and accountability. D1 ended too quickly anyway, and if people aren't in favor of continuing to vote, then whatever. We tried it.

All the people that was on the Chaco wagon - Did you all REALLY found him scummy? Also, why didn't neither of you shoot him?
I was only the second vote; it would have been way too early. Plus vanillas/GF each have various incentives to not actually be the one to shoot. The GF wants to avoid/minimize cooldown for an endgame scenario. Vanillas may want to see other people (mostly) cleared, especially if someone suspicious is able to shoot instead of yourself, who you know to be town. If Chaco had reached 9-10 votes and wasn't shot after about about 24 hours IRL, then that's a different case for me.

one of the names that strikes me is thedocsalive and why we haven't heard jack from him and only ever really suggested the voting system i believe
Hi. And I agree with you on Teemo being town; it's most likely the case based on probability and riskiness of a GF gambit. Always tread lightly in WIFOM-y talks, though.
 

thedocsalive

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
824
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Long Island, NY
@Doc:-Curiously, if you picked up on "personal vendettas" to support your vote on Chaco, what did you make of Ronike's willingness to have Swarm dead D1 for exactly such a reason? What are your current thoughts on Ronike?
Simul-posted with mine, I didn't refresh as I was editing my post. Gotta go eat now, I'll address this later.
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
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Inactives: can be a far more legit
strategy for town than in most games. I'd say use the prod system.

@chuckie: os needs to sho/ot IMO due to my disbelief that his plan having the fatal flaw of killing half the town went overlooked. In and of itself, not too scummy, but let's look closely:
the overlooked part was a relatively clear stipulation in the rules
the overlooker is os, the biggest rules lawyer in dgs
in addition, os claimed to have read the rules looking for such a hole. I don't believe he would have misses it.

By having him shoot, we are at least
eliminating his ability to quickshoot later should he be gf. Worst case? We lose a cop, a very weak role in this game. Bim games require mafia only to kill vts, as no one else has the ability to kill them. Cops are our buffers/dewirers (should they play smart). That answer your question well enough?

Also I don't understand your last sentence, but I think it's a compliment? Thanks?
Here he explains his reason for why he wants OS to shoot as well as explain a bit of the usefulness of the cops in this game



Liggys not a terrible play today, his last post took a lot of strong stands that we could work with if we knew his allignment. Plus his post doesn't really bring anything new to the table.

At this point my only other idea would be inactives, which is a route I don't really wanna go, so you inactives should step it up a notch (lookin at you Adum [give us something not related to os how bout?] and Mentos)

it is a tad early to be askin me who's the play tho, doncha think?

Also, to all who are saying I'm taking a backseat, uh yeah. I am. It's called 35 hours a week, plus 4th of July weekend and my birthday. Not to mention only being able to post from my phone. Fairly valid excuses methinks, and yet I've still got more posts that quite a few people, so why aren't you on their cases at all liggy and Nick?
Explains his insights about Liggy, shares his thoughts about inactive, and speaks about those thinking he's taking the 'backseat'

There's hardly much of him scum hunting, due to the day ending early. Most of his posts was either answering people's questions and speaking about Chaco and OS. However, he has been contributing preday about the mechanics of the game (which I'm unsure if that counts cause I'm not sure if he gotten a role by then or w/e.

I havn't seen anything from Ronike thus far that urked me or rubbed me the wrong way, thus why I feel he's SEMI town to me. I want to say I'm fairly confident on him being town, but only so much, really. Like I said, I havn't seen anything from him that bothered me



I would say "Wii feel like", but I haven't discussed this post with ol' Vanzy yet. @Rockin/Meta:- How else can we collectively unite and observe people's commitments to their suspects if someone hammers early? So wouldn't you agree the voting system was designed to stop daykilling prematurely? Should Teemo be town, I believe it becomes ironic under the consideration they once said it's up to town's "cooperation" to beat the mafia's ability to handle the maths behind this setup and whittle the numbers down [from memory - because it's just too hot to type omg].
Simple. We just read their post, or force them to make a stand to who they believe is mafia, or both. I felt the vote system was just people 'fake contributing,' since we can kill just about anytime needed. As you saw, the voting system didn't help stop premature kills. Chaco needed 4 votes before being considered shot at, but Teemo shot it down.
 

Ronike

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
612
@chuck: I still don't like that he did that, but the fact that no one really agreed with me convinced me I had the tunneling goggles on. ATM I'm keepin aclose eye on him but I don't think he's the best play today. It would be nice to hear from him tho

nick go look yourself. I'm on my phone it's too hard. But tourney I only had 70 some posts and I had strong leads. Here I have nothing, hence a slight lack of posting. I played similar in lodscrew I believe.
 

ligolski

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
0
Location
NY
Hi. And I agree with you on Teemo being town; it's most likely the case based on probability and riskiness of a GF gambit. Always tread lightly in WIFOM-y talks, though.
Sup buddy, its been a long time. and very true i agree
 

thedocsalive

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
824
Location
Long Island, NY
@Doc:-Curiously, if you picked up on "personal vendettas" to support your vote on Chaco, what did you make of Ronike's willingness to have Swarm dead D1 for exactly such a reason? What are your current thoughts on Ronike?
Chaco's posts led me to believe he would try to resolve his vendetta rashly, by immediately shooting/being shot at to prove a point. Ronike took issue with OS early, and focused on him pretty hard, but never did so in a way that threatened the duration of D1.

OS needs to make the daykill today or be killed. IMO at least.
This was the most aggressive of all the Ronike on OS quotes, and he never threatens to cut the day short with his actions like Chaco did.

As for Ronike now, I don't have any meta on him; I don't know much about him besides stuff from four years ago, and I really don't remember much from then. That aside, I'm fine with his recent posting. He strikes me as being fairly honest.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Alright, I need to reread. I'll try to have a redone analysis of who's scum by Wednesday.
 

mentosman8

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
153
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Naperville, IL
Ok, all caught up and all that jazz now. Don't really like the way yesterday ended so suddenly, but given the situation it really doesn't give me much of a feel.

@Gheb's question: Out of the 4 of them I would say Nich or Eaux are most suspicious. Nich's been more jumpy than I'm used to, and Eaux hasn't really done anything memorable other than commenting on OS saying that his failed game-breaking attempt wasn't scummy. Which, incidentally, will make me look at OS a lot harder if he were to flip scum.

Really though I don't have a really great lead scum-wise on anyone yet, and am going to have to think things over for a bit.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Messages
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Europe
Request Xonar / EauxLune Prod

Rockin, I totally asked you questions! :mad088:

KevBro, be more specific. Do you just "not like it" or do you actually find it suspect? Why would you want us to question the motive behind everything you post? As a townie why would you want us to concern ourselves with it?

:059:
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
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Request Xonar / EauxLune Prod

Rockin, I totally asked you questions! :mad088:

KevBro, be more specific. Do you just "not like it" or do you actually find it suspect? Why would you want us to question the motive behind everything you post? As a townie why would you want us to concern ourselves with it?

:059:
Gheb, I totally did answer them! D:<
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Don't like the artificial criteria Ronike had put on with the OS has to shoot someone.
I don't either, but looking at his other mafia games I don't really see much in the way of sound reasoning, at least not as a pattern. Instinct says scummy, but always will.

Rockin said:
I still havn't heard your reason yet.
You're talking. A lot. Why feel the need to post so much in this game? That's pretty unusual for you from what I've seen, but stop me if I'm wrong. Looking back at your previous posts the substance to them is pretty slim too; it's mostly referencing what other people said and talking about game-meta like the pseudo-voting system we have.

If you were scum and I had to guess I'd assume you were a Godfather and felt safe enough to stick your neck out, so you could just shoot and then coast towards end game the moment you were under pressure. Your denial of the voting system would help make that a reality too, since vague "oh, I just think this guy is scummy" makes it much more difficult to track the Godfather.

But that's going out on a limb, I guess.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Overswarm, FYI that meta on Ronike is incorrect. Ronike is definitely capable of sound reasoning. I haven't been in any recent games with him, but if you check some older games (I think FF7 mafia is a good example), you'll see what he's capable of.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Hey Teemo, what happened to your suspicion of Ronike? And what in particular makes you suspicious of Xonar and mccloud?
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
@Gheb
Lurking is a player-dependent scumtell. For example, if frozen or kirbyoshi lurks, it isn't a big scumtell, because they go inactive all the time. On the other hand, the meta I've seen of Ronike is that he's active when he's town, and isn't always active as scum. I have no issues with Rockin right now. I think he's wrong, but I also don't think that being wrong is unusual for him.
The question wasn't whether lurking is a scumtell or not but if Ronike was "lurking" at all. If you think so, then back it up.

:059:
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
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Tri-state area
@Tom: Why?



@McCloud: I understand that you presumably can't post immediately, but why are you FoSing TDA?


@Nic and OS: I find it odd that you haven't commented on each other's seemingly opposing views of Ronike in terms of his activity, what do you think other's views?


I'm wondering why Kevin wasn't taken to task about his inactivity by anyone when other players were.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
mccloud should shoot xonar

THIS MESSAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY TEEMO
I can agree with his. Xonar badly deserves death but it'd rather ease my mind about Kevin so if anybody shoots Xonar I'd say it's him. Though McCloud shooting isn't the worst idea.

:059:
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
The question wasn't whether lurking is a scumtell or not but if Ronike was "lurking" at all. If you think so, then back it up.

:059:
That's easy enough. Ronike hasn't been doing any superposts, and if you look at postcounts, he's got less than half the number of posts I do. Of course, he hasn't been the worst lurker ever, but he's the only one I have meta on so far.

@adumbrodeus
I think OS was talking about Rockin. Not Ronike, but Rockin. Correct me if I missed something though.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
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Reading back a bit on what I've missed I don't really have a target on teemo anymore I suppose. Not that I ever did per se, but since it's been a bit the original plan some people had at first didnt go through and nothing bad happened is relieving.

Nich's defense of Ronike seems... awkward.

Wouldn't mind Kevin shooting someone. Not cause I feel bad about him, but cause that guy catches scum lol
 
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