Bad Idea Mafia Redux! GAME OVER!

[thedocsalive]

Well, not much to do now. So much for the power of democracy.

For what it's worth at this point (read: not much) I agree with Omnididdle that Teemo shot Chaco too soon, and also with adumbrodeus about the power of mislynches in general. The apparent numbers advantage can disappear really quickly, all things considered.

 

[Omnididdle]

I'd just like to note that it does not benefit the godfather to shoot people, since he possibly needs to get off quickshots in lylo

 

[Omnididdle]

[23:27] infernoomni: yea but if the godfather shoots, dies, and the mafia inheritor inherits the godfather's abilities
[23:28] infernoomni: then the mafia inheritor regains the cooldown period and can get a quickshot off in lylo
[23:28] riddleswf: yeah
[23:28] riddleswf: but it also doesnt benefit mafia to have their godfather die
[23:28] riddleswf: ...
[23:28] infernoomni: well if the gf "dies"
[23:28] infernoomni: then anyone with a gun looks like auto-townie
[23:28] riddleswf: godfather is an OBVIOUS inherit
[23:29] infernoomni: yea but the only way mafia can control when their godfather is going to die
[23:29] infernoomni: is if the godfather himself plans to make himself look scummy
[23:29] infernoomni: cuz the mafia inheritor power is to choose the member before the day starts
[23:29] riddleswf: youre saying Tom like double quick shoots
[23:29] riddleswf: *Teemo
[23:29] riddleswf: just to get himself killed>?
[23:29] infernoomni: ?
[23:30] infernoomni: im saying a good gambit to feint a godfather death
[23:30] riddleswf: that actually be a mad legit strategy
[23:30] infernoomni: is to have himself lynched by looking scummy
[23:30] riddleswf: godfather kamikaze
[23:30] infernoomni: and then having mafia inheritor use the power the previous night
[23:30] infernoomni: right
[23:30] infernoomni: that cant happen tho if we control
[23:30] infernoomni: who shoots who
[23:30] infernoomni: but since tom willingly decided to shoot upon himself
[23:30] infernoomni: thats why i think in my head possible gambit
[23:30] riddleswf: right
[23:31] riddleswf: but teemo could get another kill off
[23:31] riddleswf: tomorrow
[23:31] riddleswf: before he gets killed D3
[23:31] infernoomni: after the 24 hour cool down
[23:31] infernoomni: yep
[23:31] infernoomni: oh man
[23:31] infernoomni: thats not good
[23:32] riddleswf: right and then inheritor inherits
[23:32] riddleswf: and is good in lylo
[23:32] riddleswf: and mafia gets at the LEAST 4 free kills
[23:32] infernoomni: and the chances of hitting bomb
[23:32] infernoomni: *chance
[23:33] infernoomni: basically a kamakazi gf
[23:33] infernoomni: can force two day kills

 

[CT Chia]

DAY ONE STARTS

There are no active cooldowns.

@Mod: at the start of the day you said there are no cooldowns. If someone has a cooldown, do you announce it at the start of the day and say who has the cooldown?

 

[Teemo]

To suggest that you can POSSIBLY "coast to the end" in this game when anyone at all can end your rampage with the flick of a wrist is absolutely laughable and terrible. Something about your posts really, REALLY screams "I am the Godfather, but you don't have the balls to do anything". And yeah, the more passive members might just believe you, but I'm on to you.
I hate this elitist attitude with a passion. There are members of games that NEVER get voted early in the game because of their legacy/legendary status, and it's cost me a game because I didn't pursue the person (SSB Mafia See: ChibiCat) so that's no longer going to happen.

Nobody can coast. In fact, everybody needs to be more on edge than ever.

xmfd

absolutely laughable and terrible? oooh no, you're on to me. lol.

This IS moving fast!

Regarding Teemo:



It looks as though there was a miscommunication between Tom/EE, considering this quote was stated earlier. Could you elaborate on why there was a miscommunication here? Kat says there had to have been a miscommunication otherwise why would they actively go against the beliefs they laid down earlier in the game? So whoever did shoot, could the other part of the hydra comment on whether they agree or disagree with the action?

I don't know if I could really see the Godfather doing this. Waiting for Chaco's flip.

Yeah, EE wrote that, but I shot Chaco. EE has been on a camping trip or something all day.

 

[Teemo]

BTW MK, ChibiCat was another of my hydras. U mad at my meta?

 

[M.K]

Argh @ ChibiCat. Don't remind me >_>
And yeah, i'm on you like butter on a roll.
Likewise, camping trip =/= funeral.

 

[Omnididdle]

fyi, this means Godfather can effectively kamakazi into the game and deal big damage.

if Tom is GF he'll shoot someone else @ random after his 24 hour cool down period. mafia inheritor will then use his ability on Tom since more than likely we will lynch Tom Day 3. however, since this gambit is exposed as possible it leaves some wifom for mafia inheritor. will we kill Tom before the 24 hour cooldown period? maybe we'll let Tom live and do another shot thus wasting the mafia inheritor power for good. good wifom is good. this is all taking into consideration that Teemo is the GF.

day 1: gf kills random (justifies it)
night 1: mafia kills random
day 2: gf survives for 24 hours, then random kills
night 2: mafia kills random
night 2: inheritor uses ability
day 3: town shoots tom
night 4: mafia kills random
night 4: mafia gains new GF

it makes it so that killing the GF does not guarantee all townies who can shoot confirmed townies. also, with a new GF he can effectively finish a game by:

day ?: mislynch
night ? : kill random
day: shoot random or possible claimed bomb
night ?: kill random

GF + inheritor = lots of kills very fast and removes town from having safe claims

-------------------------

very legit gambit if u ask me. that's why it's important for us to control WHO shoots WHO so that scum cannot set up this gambit AND get a free kill with it.

more to come

 

[CT Chia]

Uhhh.... inheritor uses the ability on a fallen mafia member, u said inheritor uses the ability b4 tom dies

clarify?

 

[Omnididdle]

Uhhh.... inheritor uses the ability on a fallen mafia member, u said inheritor uses the ability b4 tom dies

clarify?

Mafia Inheritor (1 player)

You are the Mafia Inheritor. You possess the ability Inherit Abilities, which you may use only once in this game. On any given night, you may elect to use Inherit Abilities if and only if at least one of your mafia partners is dead. If you elect to use this ability, you may select one of your fallen fellow mafiats. You will gain all abilities, both passive and active, that the selective mafiat had, and will be able to use them in a fashion identical to player who originally possessed them.

If you choose to inherit the abilities of the Godfather, you will be subject to any Daykill cooldown stacks he had accumulated for the day immediately following your inheritance. This cooldown will not be publicly posted, but if you attempt to daykill a player during it, it will be treated as falsifying the ability to daykill and will result in an immediate modkill. For all day phases after the day phase that immediately follows the nightphase in which you acquire the abilities of the Godfather, you will no longer be subject to the cooldown stacks of the previous Godfather and only to your own.

o wow, you're right chibo. i was under the impression it had to be made the night before.

so it's actually worse. gf can kamakazi and go crazy and possibly shoot a bomb. then inheritor "inherits" and gains the same ability. so one GF can equal at LEAST 4 kills (2 day kills, 2 night kills) and possibly more if that kamakazi gf hits a bomb. then they gain another GF with a reset cooldown who can lylo strike

 

[Omnididdle]

fyi stuff:

1.) cops. do not investigate Teemo since he will guarantee flip town result (townie or gf)

2.) we need to figure out how we want to deal with Teemo now that this possibility of a gambit has arised. tho for the sake of wifom we should not confirm it until tomorrow BUT we need to discuss while we still can in twilight. we only have 23-24 hours to decide how to move forward toMorrow

 

[Omnididdle]

@Mod: at the start of the day you said there are no cooldowns. If someone has a cooldown, do you announce it at the start of the day and say who has the cooldown?

wondering if inheritor's temporary cooldown will show if they inherit a GF who took a shot?

because if so it says that it wont be publically shown

 

[CT Chia]

I'm thinking the best course of action would to prevent such things being discussed would be for Teemo to be shot within 24 hours of Day 2 unless a cop gets a guilty and claims it. If no cops find a guilty, then we get to kill Teemo and make sure all is well and prevent us from another potential couple of kills. If a cop claims an guilty person, we should who they found.
If it's a real cop and we shoot their guilty then we have a 50/50 shot of nailing the inheritor (which is extremely important since it's a potential 2nd mafia daykiller and once they get their inherit on cops can't detect em cause they're like a GF).
If it's scum fake claiming that they got a guilty then when we kill their "guilty" target and see that it's not scum then on Day 3 we have a guaranteed scum victim (since we would obv kill the person that fake claimed cop), and that person has a 50/50 shot of being the inheritor.

 

[CT Chia]

And btw if it wasn't understood, I'm saying in my last post that if any cop does get a guilty tomorrow they should claim it asap (like as in... before 24 hours lol)

 

[Omnididdle]

I'm thinking the best course of action would to prevent such things being discussed would be for Teemo to be shot within 24 hours of Day 2 unless a cop gets a guilty and claims it. If no cops find a guilty, then we get to kill Teemo and make sure all is well and prevent us from another potential couple of kills. If a cop claims an guilty person, we should who they found.
If it's a real cop and we shoot their guilty then we have a 50/50 shot of nailing the inheritor (which is extremely important since it's a potential 2nd mafia daykiller and once they get their inherit on cops can't detect em cause they're like a GF).
If it's scum fake claiming that they got a guilty then when we kill their "guilty" target and see that it's not scum then on Day 3 we have a guaranteed scum victim (since we would obv kill the person that fake claimed cop), and that person has a 50/50 shot of being the inheritor.

i like it.

i suggest each cop investigate both Overswarm and Ronike (cuz i think they're the scummiest). if we AGREE on who the cops should investigate then this actually works a bit. if the cops do NOT get a guilty tomorrow then they can stay silent and both Overswarm and Ronike are clear. then again, we can't really be sure if they'll do it respectively so.... maybe it's best that we direct both cops to the same person? this also prevents something bad happening like a cop dying.

anyway, if we choose a single person to investigate and the cops are silent tomorrow then that said person is cleared (or GF).

if it's a scum cop then GF (if not Tom) could give a false report and effectively get that free Day Kill/Night Kill combo. that does, however, clear Tom.

if we agree to investigate a single person toMorrow i think Ronike is our best bet. does any agree/disagree? we should probably come to an agreement before twilight is over so that silence/lackthereof will be legit.

 

[CT Chia]

i dont like the agreeing on who should be cop'd idea.

Think scum is gonna want us chillin with a cleared townie? They are gonna know who we are gonna pick and they could night kill them to have us waste both cop investigations.

Can't agree on 2 ppl to be investigated cause the cops wont know to investigate which one and it gives a 50 50 on the same person being investigated.

While the ideas of tryin to get a confirmed townie this early is good, it's just not feasable really and theres too many what ifs that could ruin it.

I say cops just go at it and investigate whoever they want and report tomorrow asap if they find a guilty.

 

[Omnididdle]

idk, let's think about it:

two cops investigate ronike. silence. means Ronike is NOT inheritor or tactician. with Ronike being cleared we can have him shoot our next target since he'll probably be the Night target. that way we effectively get rid of our scummy players without actually wasting a shot on them (mafia takes care of them since they become cleared). also, our scummy players lose their 24 hour cooldown. if Ronike claims that he cannot shoot he is either bomb or cop. he wifom the mafia and say whichever and we leave him alive. that means mafia cannot successfully rewire a claimed bomb. at the same time, mafia may not want to take the chance to nightKill a bomb since that would be a waste. if hes alive in the following Day then either mafia didn't act (which is good considering he could be a bomb or a cop) or he is GF.

what's the downside to this (cuz im sure there may be a hole in it)

 

[Teemo]

Wow, this has gotten ridiculously out of hand, and I cannot believe you are all actually considering killing me as soon as you can D2. The fact that I COULD be Godfather doesn't meant **** compared to the odds of 10/11 I'm not Godfather.

 

[Teemo]

Why do you want two cops on the same player?

 

[Omnididdle]

mafia could nightKill Ronike and we do waste investigations... at the same time... mafia does do us the favor of killing people we consider scummy. if the person we investigate doesn't die in the night then there's a good chance they can be mafia, aye?

@tom: go back and read everything from the chat and then ask accordingly. i'm not going to answer random questions when i've addressed it already

 

[Teemo]

Cops should just investigate whomever they want.

 

[Omnididdle]

or you can explain why my theory of cops investigating a single person that town chooses doesn't work.

god you're so unhelpful this game

 

[Omnididdle]

edit: double post

 

[CT Chia]

Getting rid of our scummy players even if they are town? Who cares, almost like you want to get rid of him even if he's a townie. And what if it ends up somehow that Ronike's the GF? Yea, that plays out terribly.

The cop investigations are mad important, and having 2 per night is real key. Essentially wasting them is terrible terrible terrible.

Also not to mention you keep pushing the idea of Ronike. Guess what, not that much time left here in twilight, and to decide on Ronike more or less cause you want him to be the single target isn't gonna fly. We would need more time in discussing more things, looking at other players, etc.

I really can't agree with anything other than cops investigating on their own, and doing it in a random sense probably to make sure the cops don't investigate the same person and that scum doesn't off their result.

 

[Omnididdle]

its more like a they are scummy players but can always be a GF possibility so having our scummiest players be mafia bait = us not wasting a shot on them and mafia having to nightKill a confirmed townie. if they are GF then tight 24 hour cooldown

i agree that cop investigations are mad important. was there anything flawed about what i suggested earlier?

i only push ronike cuz he (and overswarm) are my top picks. also, i was going under the assumption that we can have enough people look at this before twilight is over (how long does twilight last?)

i guess it's not clear how im trying to use the cops. their silence clears who we suspect aka think is scum and/or finds them guilty. i just dont see any real flaw in my idea of getting a shooter confirmed, then having him shoot, then having scum off the confirmed townie (means less chance that our cops get targeted). also, if the person we target for investigation can't shoot then they can wifom mafia into either killing a bomb (in an attempt to kill a cop) or rewiring a cop (in an attempt to rewire a bomb).

im askin for peeps to looks for the cons in this

 

[Moriarty]

I don't think Tom is scum if thats worth a grain of salt

 

[Tom]

or you can explain why my theory of cops investigating a single person that town chooses doesn't work.

god you're so unhelpful this game

What about the fact that it effectively halves the amount of investigations we get in the game?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@Mod: at the start of the day you said there are no cooldowns. If someone has a cooldown, do you announce it at the start of the day and say who has the cooldown?

If someone has a cooldown that was accumlated by normal means (i.e. actually daykilling people), then yes, I will be announcing who has such a cooldown and for how long at the start of each day.

There is one player in this game who has the potential to have a cooldown that will NOT be revealed publicly, and that player is the mafia inheritor.

Refer to this section of the Inheritor role:

If you choose to inherit the abilities of the Godfather, you will be subject to any Daykill cooldown stacks he had accumulated for the day immediately following your inheritance. This cooldown will not be publicly posted, but if you attempt to daykill a player during it, it will be treated as falsifying the ability to daykill and will result in an immediate modkill. For all day phases after the day phase that immediately follows the nightphase in which you acquire the abilities of the Godfather, you will no longer be subject to the cooldown stacks of the previous Godfather and only to your own.

The temporary cooldown that the inheritor may potentially accumulate via this rule will not be posted upon the start of the day to which the rule would apply.

Another note: The post that will reveal Chacotaco's role and officially begin night phase will be posted as close to 5:30 PM EST as possible by either myself or Marshy. If possible Marshy will be locking the thread after that post is made. If the thread is not locked please refrain from posting after the post that begins night phase is made.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

**** JUST GOT REAL, YO.

I totally asked you something

Basically everything about that play was anti-town. did you take any kind of interest in town before you decided to take the shot?

If you took a close look at the amount of votes Chaco has gathered until the shot then he actually did go with the town's will. It's not like 3/4 of the game hasn't openly suspected Chaco. He executed what the majority of the town wanted.

I do think it was too early to do so. However:

People talk about shooting down WIFOM. Tom cuts down Chaco's WIFOM play by shooting him.

That's not anti-town. Not when the majority is in favour of Chaco's death.

2.) who knows. he says he just thought you were being scummy. i say that's bs because if everyone was shooting on the basis of being scummy then more people besides yourself would have been shot i.e. Overswarm, Gheb, Ronike.

Why is my name being dropped here? I don't think I've done anything (scummy or unreasonable) that deserves to be thrown around in the same manner as Ronike or Overswarm.

I'm thinking the best course of action would to prevent such things being discussed would be for Teemo to be shot within 24 hours of Day 2 unless a cop gets a guilty and claims it. If no cops find a guilty, then we get to kill Teemo and make sure all is well and prevent us from another potential couple of kills. If a cop claims an guilty person, we should who they found.
If it's a real cop and we shoot their guilty then we have a 50/50 shot of nailing the inheritor (which is extremely important since it's a potential 2nd mafia daykiller and once they get their inherit on cops can't detect em cause they're like a GF).
If it's scum fake claiming that they got a guilty then when we kill their "guilty" target and see that it's not scum then on Day 3 we have a guaranteed scum victim (since we would obv kill the person that fake claimed cop), and that person has a 50/50 shot of being the inheritor.

i like it.

i suggest each cop investigate both Overswarm and Ronike (cuz i think they're the scummiest). if we AGREE on who the cops should investigate then this actually works a bit. if the cops do NOT get a guilty tomorrow then they can stay silent and both Overswarm and Ronike are clear. then again, we can't really be sure if they'll do it respectively so.... maybe it's best that we direct both cops to the same person? this also prevents something bad happening like a cop dying.

anyway, if we choose a single person to investigate and the cops are silent tomorrow then that said person is cleared (or GF).

if it's a scum cop then GF (if not Tom) could give a false report and effectively get that free Day Kill/Night Kill combo. that does, however, clear Tom.

if we agree to investigate a single person toMorrow i think Ronike is our best bet. does any agree/disagree? we should probably come to an agreement before twilight is over so that silence/lackthereof will be legit.

What crap.

We have 2 cops vs 2 potential guilties out of 18 targets (since 1 always dies before N1). A cop should have 1 inno + 1 guilty or 3 innos, otherwise he didn't do a good job as a cop in my book. The cop should investigate people who are likely to neither be shot nor NKed so he has his result until endgame where they become more important. Telling the cop whom to investigate is telling the mafia who they should kill to make the cop useless.

And the arbitrary 24 hour deadline before shooting Teemo is just flat-out stupid. He is not scummy.

 

[Rockin]

argh. ****it. This is what I get for working in the afternoon two days in a row. ><;;

anyway, what was Chacotaco scummy again? I don't think I saw it...

 

[Overswarm]

Wow, so a lot happens when you leave for Kings Island.

This was unexpected.

 

[Overswarm]

argh. ****it. This is what I get for working in the afternoon two days in a row. ><;;

anyway, what was Chacotaco scummy again? I don't think I saw it...

He deliberately made a scummy play, then called it a "gambit", that logically didn't make sense, then later said it wasn't a gambit and was just a dumb move, then got shot after having many votes on him.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Investigate me :D

 

[Rockin]

Wow, so a lot happens when you leave for Kings Island.

This was unexpected.

if by 'Kings Island' you mean 'Working in the afternoon for two days straight,' then yes lol.

He deliberately made a scummy play, then called it a "gambit", that logically didn't make sense, then later said it wasn't a gambit and was just a dumb move, then got shot after having many votes on him.

I'll have to reread that area I missed, but if you're telling me right, I still do not find that scummy. I also don't like how Teemo shot him like that.

 

[Ronike]

Tom is scummy, I agree. But shooting him within 24 hours is idiotic. Yes the gf gambit is decent, but if Tom isn't gf we will have given the gf four free kills before he starts that gambit, and I like that less. For now, I think leaving Tom alive is a better idea that quickshotting him an losing even more daytime.

Those saying teemo isn't scummy need to reread then explain

 

[Rockin]

i like it.

i suggest each cop investigate both Overswarm and Ronike (cuz i think they're the scummiest). if we AGREE on who the cops should investigate then this actually works a bit. if the cops do NOT get a guilty tomorrow then they can stay silent and both Overswarm and Ronike are clear. then again, we can't really be sure if they'll do it respectively so.... maybe it's best that we direct both cops to the same person? this also prevents something bad happening like a cop dying.

anyway, if we choose a single person to investigate and the cops are silent tomorrow then that said person is cleared (or GF).

if it's a scum cop then GF (if not Tom) could give a false report and effectively get that free Day Kill/Night Kill combo. that does, however, clear Tom.

if we agree to investigate a single person toMorrow i think Ronike is our best bet. does any agree/disagree? we should probably come to an agreement before twilight is over so that silence/lackthereof will be legit.

yeah, let's tell maf who we want to investigate so the results can be tampered with


c'mooooooon guys...

The cops should investigate whoever the hell they want to investigate. Despite a few stupid incidents, I'm going to assume everyone has a brain here. I will also suggest NO ONE QUICK SHOTS ANYONE, not even Teemo.

Chibo, KevinM, do you guys have anything to say in terms of Teemo's actions and what's been going on?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Rockin, to sabotage the investigation, they have to target the cop, how would revealing the target do anything?

 

[Rockin]

Rockin, to sabotage the investigation, they have to target the cop, how would revealing the target do anything?

Oh, right.

Still, I feel the cops should just listen on their own to who they want to investigate.

 

[McCloud]

I'll be v/la with the ability to intermittently check at night and post but (going to London) don't expect any overly long thought out posts, just a heads up. I will be back in Paris with full time for accessing things on the 13th.

And yes I saw your question, Gheb. Too much to iso now, but a couple things have changed in light of the daykill.

 

[Nicholas1024]

There's multiple problems with directing the cops. First off, there's a 50/50 chance that they'll investigate the same person, wasting an investigation. Second off, there's more than one viable way to play cop. You can investigate suspicious people, or you can do as Frozen did in BIM, and try to build up a team of clears (or in this case semi-clears till the godfather dies) for endgame.