Bad Idea Mafia! GAME OVER! MAFIA WINS!

[#HBC | marshy]

no macma n

 

[Tom]

I disagree about the bombs claiming immediately. The problem with any role that can't daykill claiming is it gives the mafia more of an advantage than us. In all reality here, the mafia's goal is not to kill all the townies, but to kill all the daykilling townies. Cause without any daykillers, who cares if the cop finds them out? So every night they are going to want to kill a daykiller, and every bomb and cop we reveal gives them a higher chance of hitting the killers. So bombs, please don't claim unless you are about to be killed, which brings me to another point:

Anyone who plans on daykilling, could you at least announce your desicion to do so? Randomly day killing only helps the mafia as not only do we then have a chance of hitting bombs and losing two townies for one, but then the Godfather can get away with it too. I realize by announcing ones desicion to do so gives the mafia a chance to pull a fast one on the town a fire before the desired target can be hit, but then we know who to daykill the next day, taking the GF from the mafia.

As for the cops, well its tricky. On one hand, we take a target from the mafia, but on the other we know that we are going to hit a mafia then. Here is what I would reccomend to the cops: if someone threatens a hit on someone, and you know that another person is mafia, claim and tell us who is your investigations. That's my thought at least.

Oh, and FOS on Tom. He's smart, I'm pretty sure he could figure out that clears give the mafia a big advantage and just a better idea that bombs claiming and knew that he was a big enough name that people would follow him if he reccomended it.

no, i still view that bombs claiming is the right strategy. although i did not think about the game from the perspective of the mafia eliminating all of the daykilling townies to win, because there is only 1 daykilling mafia and there are 8 daykilling townies. i saw the game more from the perspective of the mafia having to convince the townies to shoot wrong, and the mafia having to convince the townies to shoot the bombs, while they tried to kill the cops at night. if the bombs claim, then the townies will not shoot them during day, and the mafia will be forced to shoot the bombs at night because if they do not they are leaving total cleareds alive.

clears dont give the mafia a big advantage. also, im not the only person recommending that the bombs claim immediately, it is basically consensus before i even open my mouth. you noticed that, im sure.

can i daykill florida?

no please

 

[Ronike]

Got Ninja'd, so I need to add a bit more.

if mafia try to kill cops then they are leaving 2 cleared bombs alive, making them closer to a lynch during day. if there are no cop claims, mafia will nightkill the bombs because bombs will never be lynched. (lynch meaning daykilled) if a cop got a guilty last night, by revealing it they simply trade 1 cop for 1 goon. if both did that, we would still have 1 gf and 1 goon and 0 cops. however, if they dont claim and mafia is forced to kill bombs then they can have at least 1 more night of safety. if they can also get innocent reports, they can help determine possible counterclaims. thats why the bombs are there, to soak up the first few nightkills for the town because scum cannot afford to leave them alive.

This is bull. Why would the mafia go after the non-killing roles? Especially bombs? Cops they may go after to stop other goons from being caught, but bombs? No way. The bombs pose ABSOLUTELY no threat to the mafia. They can only blow up on townies, so why would the mafia not leave them around for as long as possible? In worst case scenario, we end up in endgame with GF, bomb, and another, GF can shoot bomb for the win. So why would they NK the bomb? More FOS on Tom

 

[Chaco]

no, i still view that bombs claiming is the right strategy. although i did not think about the game from the perspective of the mafia eliminating all of the daykilling townies to win, because there is only 1 daykilling mafia and there are 8 daykilling townies. i saw the game more from the perspective of the mafia having to convince the townies to shoot wrong, and the mafia having to convince the townies to shoot the bombs, while they tried to kill the cops at night. if the bombs claim, then the townies will not shoot them during day, and the mafia will be forced to shoot the bombs at night because if they do not they are leaving total cleareds alive.

clears dont give the mafia a big advantage. also, im not the only person recommending that the bombs claim immediately, it is basically consensus before i even open my mouth. you noticed that, im sure.

Bombs claiming is actually a good strategy. I'd support it.

And no Mac.

 

[Chaco]

Woah, just read bomb description, they don't kill mafia. **** bombs claiming.

 

[Ronike]

I agree that bombs need to claim, but not immediately as you say. THAT gives mafia a big advantage. By using controlled daykills, we eliminate the possibility of a bomb kill, the same as we would if bombs claimed immediately. The only difference is that the longer we leave bombs unclaimed, the higher chance there is that the mafia will accidentally hit a nonvig at night instead of a vig. Which is better for town.

 

[Chaco]

Third post in a row, nevermind. I cleared my confusion now.

 

[Tom]

This is bull. Why would the mafia go after the non-killing roles? Especially bombs? Cops they may go after to stop other goons from being caught, but bombs? No way. The bombs pose ABSOLUTELY no threat to the mafia. They can only blow up on townies, so why would the mafia not leave them around for as long as possible? In worst case scenario, we end up in endgame with GF, bomb, and another, GF can shoot bomb for the win. So why would they NK the bomb? More FOS on Tom

Mafia would go after the bombs at night because if the bombs are cleared, they would never be shot at during the day. They would be 2 opinions that can be completely trusted to be town aligned. The mafia cannot win by simply killing all of the town aligned shooters. As people shoot, they clear themselves, meaning that they will not be shot during the day. if the previous-shooters are cleared during day, and the bombs are cleared during the day, then gradually the chances of killing mafia during the day gets very, very high. The bombs pose no mechanical threat to the mafia, but they also pose no mechanical threat to the town either if they claim. But if they do claim, then the town can listen to them for advice.

I agree that bombs need to claim, but not immediately as you say. THAT gives mafia a big advantage. By using controlled daykills, we eliminate the possibility of a bomb kill, the same as we would if bombs claimed immediately. The only difference is that the longer we leave bombs unclaimed, the higher chance there is that the mafia will accidentally hit a nonvig at night instead of a vig. Which is better for town.

listen up. if we do not have the bombs claim, by using controlled daykills, if we target a goon and prepare to shoot them, they will simply claim bomb. once this has happened twice, we will have 4 bomb claims, and we will be able to trust none of them. we will not want to kill them because we will not want to risk killing 2 townies in one day by exploding a bomb. by this point in the game (probably Day 3), a cop could be dead, and we would have to rely simply on a single cops night investigation to tell us the truth, which we would have to wait one night to see which of the bombs are lying, and then we would still have to risk killing 1/3 bombs and losing.

 

[Tom]

I enjoy the FOS and More FOS when I am arguing for a strategy that is absolutely logical and I am not the only person (Macman, Marshy, Nicholas, Riddle) backing it. Also, some people haven't even posted, and the more you FOS, More FOS, Super FOS, Superduper FOS me, the more I feel that someone is going to make a stupid decision and just fire and end the Day.

 

[Handorin]

So I've been running my mafia game and see all these posts. What Tom says is pretty much the truth (I hate saying that, but everytime I try and type a post he says it better before me), except I believe that some people didn't read when the bombs should claim in each post. Bombs should claim, but not immediately. I hate how Nic already did, but we have to deal with it. No one else should toDay.

 

[Tom]

Your game got ****ed again. Someone contacted someone else on AIM thinking they were mafia and they were not. That is now twice you will have to redo the setup.

This is why we run games in Decisive Games and not the Atlantic South Social Room. LOL.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

unfos tom

no one shoot anytime soon

 

[Ronike]

Mafia would go after the bombs at night because if the bombs are cleared, they would never be shot at during the day. They would be 2 opinions that can be completely trusted to be town aligned. The mafia cannot win by simply killing all of the town aligned shooters. As people shoot, they clear themselves, meaning that they will not be shot during the day. if the previous-shooters are cleared during day, and the bombs are cleared during the day, then gradually the chances of killing mafia during the day gets very, very high. The bombs pose no mechanical threat to the mafia, but they also pose no mechanical threat to the town either if they claim. But if they do claim, then the town can listen to them for advice.

I do admit that you have a point here that I had not thought of. However, I still don't think that the mafia's logical move would be to kill the bombs at night, as they DO win if they kill all the daykillers because then there is no way for the mafia to die. The bombs can't hit mafia, and the cops can't either I thinks Am I right in this assumption FF?

listen up. if we do not have the bombs claim, by using controlled daykills, if we target a goon and prepare to shoot them, they will simply claim bomb. once this has happened twice, we will have 4 bomb claims, and we will be able to trust none of them. we will not want to kill them because we will not want to risk killing 2 townies in one day by exploding a bomb. by this point in the game (probably Day 3), a cop could be dead, and we would have to rely simply on a single cops night investigation to tell us the truth, which we would have to wait one night to see which of the bombs are lying, and then we would still have to risk killing 1/3 bombs and losing.

True, but the advantages of controlled daykills like this still outweighs the negatives of this I think. The thing is, the mafia basically has to give up the goon to do this, which IMO is more to our advantage.

I enjoy the FOS and More FOS when I am arguing for a strategy that is absolutely logical and I am not the only person (Macman, Marshy, Nicholas, Riddle) backing it. Also, some people haven't even posted, and the more you FOS, More FOS, Super FOS, Superduper FOS me, the more I feel that someone is going to make a stupid decision and just fire and end the Day.

I'm glad you are enjoying the FOSes!

But in all seriousness, nobody end the day quite yet. We aren't there yet.

At the same time, I love all the blame tossing Tom! I realize you were not the first to come up with the idea, but you ARE the one backing it the most. That, coupled with a few other things, led me to FOS you. So don't try to turn this on me and make it look like I'm just trying to get through the day fast.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

can bombs claim please. I don't see how that is debatable.

 

[Ronike]

can bombs claim please. I don't see how that is debatable.

Have you even been reading?! Bombs claiming = 1 less buffer kill for that the town could have to protect the killers!

 

[#HBC | Mac]

What ronike? The cops can't hit mafia? Does that even make sense?

 

[Ronike]

Did you even read the cop role? To me, it sounded like the cops can't kill at all.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh, i thought you meant like investigating. which didnt make sense. Ok everyone continue on with your day.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Personally, I think the benefit of having 2 people instantly cleared is greater than the benefit of mafia possibly nightkilling the bombs. Also, I think the mafia play would probably be to nightkill said bombs, as having cleared townies is a greater threat to mafia then the uncleared daykilling roles. Also, using the controlled day-killing method, a mafia goon on the hook would always just claim bomb, which would oust the true bomb roles anyway.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I do admit that you have a point here that I had not thought of. However, I still don't think that the mafia's logical move would be to kill the bombs at night, as they DO win if they kill all the daykillers because then there is no way for the mafia to die. The bombs can't hit mafia, and the cops can't either I thinks Am I right in this assumption FF?

Only the normal townies can kill the mafia. Cops have no killing capacity, and the Bombs are only able to kill other NON-BOMB town aligned players. This includes Cops if that isn't clear.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[Ronike]

Personally, I think the benefit of having 2 people instantly cleared is greater than the benefit of mafia possibly nightkilling the bombs. Also, I think the mafia play would probably be to nightkill said bombs, as having cleared townies is a greater threat to mafia then the uncleared daykilling roles. Also, using the controlled day-killing method, a mafia goon on the hook would always just claim bomb, which would oust the true bomb roles anyway.

In a normal game, you would be right, but in this game, I disagree. In worst case scenario (which we have to assume until its an impossibility), all cops and bombs have claimed or died, and we come to a day where there are only 2 vigs left. If GF hasn't daykilled at this point (worst case scenario), mafia wins because GF daykills one vig, and nks another. Really, if we use a delayed daykill system like I propose, having people cleared immediately doesn't give us any advantage. Only the mafia. Sorry if I'm not being very clear, I keep getting distracted...

 

[Ronike]

And yes, FF that did answer my question, thank you.

 

[Omni]

I don't exactly understand the entire concept of what Tom said but if we are all agreeing we shouldn't claim bomb then what is our next step?

Lol @ playing a Mafia game without RVS.

 

[Chaco]

Just pointing out that M-F I will not be active until around 5pm or so.

 

[Tom]

So dar we have accomplished very little today we need to go and scumhunt.

 

[KevinM]

We're not scum hunting unfortunately a lot of us are just trying to metagame the game.

Thats how disney mafia is going and will most likely result in a loss.

And thats how this game will work out.

Play the game, don't try and "beat" the game system.

 

[Tom]

apples to oranges, this game is very different. this game is an open setup and the lynch mechanic puts the power in OUR hands. very different.

but i would like to hear what you think about Bombs claiming, Kevin, and i would really like you to comment about what Ronike said to me about the Bombs not claiming and the Cops. Because pre-game we agreed but apparently they say im wrong and I dont necessarily see anything WRONG with what Ronike is saying so I guess I was wrong.

I sholdnt be posting ronight i will post tomrorow afternoon

 

[KevinM]

Well considering we already have one claimed bomb we don't have much of a choice do we?

 

[Tom]

please continue

 

[#HBC | Mac]

wait who claimed bomb?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright then,

I claim bomb.

I think it was that guy...

 

[KevinM]

please continue

I'm just saying if we were going to use the bombs as a hidden buffer, then we should have kept them quiet. I'd rather have two clears at this point and be able to start from there.

If he hadn't claimed i would have kept them quiet so we could have scum hunted but oh well. At this point have them claim and then continue from there.

 

[Tom]

having claimed bombs doesn't prevent us from scum hunting, though. more later.

 

[Pythag]

Bombs need to claim and then we need to scumhunt. Anybody who kills without good reason from now on is godfather in my mind.

I may be missing something epic, but why are we just so ok to clear Marshy?
I understand that he was part of this "race" but is that a legit defense?
If he's the Godfather then he's just walking all over us.
YES I understand the chances are in our favor that he is not,
BUT I really have a hard time just straight up clearing him.

again, if I missed something, please let me know
(sorry for inactivity btw)

 

[Pythag]

Anybody who kills without good reason from now on is godfather in my mind.

also, this part of the sentence bothered me, leading to my post.

 

[Chaco]

Well, I don't think anyone has flat out said Marshy is cleared. It's just a much smaller chance that he is Godfather, due to us being able to Daykill.

I wouldn't clear Marshy, but just know your percentages.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think Pythag has a good point. I mean, that type of behavior definitely doesn't help out town, it just wastes a day phase and kills off someone at random. So, why doesn't anyone think it's remotely suspicious?

 

[Riddle]

I may be missing something epic, but why are we just so ok to clear Marshy?
I understand that he was part of this "race" but is that a legit defense?
If he's the Godfather then he's just walking all over us.
YES I understand the chances are in our favor that he is not,
BUT I really have a hard time just straight up clearing him.

again, if I missed something, please let me know
(sorry for inactivity btw)

While Marshy isn't outright cleared I think that he is likely to be townie just by the sentences. My statement about thinking whoever shoots is the godfather is a warning not a statement. I said that to keep townies from killing without reason and ruining our chances. I think MArshy is mostly clear, because he made no effort to try and hide that he was killing as fast as possible which seems a little brave, and because I hadn't issued my warning yet.

 

[Omni]

While Marshy isn't outright cleared I think that he is likely to be townie just by the sentences. My statement about thinking whoever shoots is the godfather is a warning not a statement. I said that to keep townies from killing without reason and ruining our chances. I think MArshy is mostly clear, because he made no effort to try and hide that he was killing as fast as possible which seems a little brave, and because I hadn't issued my warning yet.

It was still a stupid move that has a high % of taking out one of us then allowing the Mafia to get a free night kill. It was a fun concept before since me, Marshy, and Tom didn't know about bombs. I think everyone's just giving him the clear because he didn't hit something more valuable like a bomb or a cop.

 

[Rockin]

Bah, I just want to say that I've havn't dissipeared or anything, but will post something shortly. Give me a moment XD;;