Bad Idea Mafia 4! Game Over, Scum Wins!

[Clownbot]

Actually, based on some quick perusing I think I want July investigated in case of a GF flip. In response to Zen's question about whether people found Gova scummy or not she said he was null leaning scum and she'd rather make him shooter than shootee.

 

[ranmaru]

I agree with that.

 

[Clownbot]

@July

Nobody wants you dead; you seem to be on everyone's town list. You're so un-suspicious it's making me suspicious. If you were in a room with Ryker, Summoner, and Swords, who would you kill? You seem fairly ambiguous on all three.

@Gova

All your posts are antagonistic about the votecount, but you haven't really taken any stances on people. Let's take me for an example. Why am I scummy? Please give a post explaining why I'm scummy. I would love that.

@Clownbot

Oh wow, I didn't realize this many people thought Gova was scum. I dunno man, still leaning town to me. One of the people on the "Yeah he's pretty scummy" train is probably a scum themselves.

I like this post. I don't like how it doesn't give reasoning, but I like the fact that you're saying something. Could you explain to us your town-ish read on Gova, as well as selecting a potential scum candidate from the people who don't like him? Basically, elaborate on this post.

I'll ask some more questions after my English test on Julius Caesar. Shakespeare's written better IMO, but Mark Antony's speech is top tier.

There ya go, Zen.

 

[July]

@July: If you think Kuz is gf then why would you want him investigated >.>?

Also Swords said that? Can you quote it?

Because I forgot that godfather can shoot AND appears innocent to cop ><

Hmm, so in that case I would probably say Luxor is still a good choice to investigate and I don't think he would be godfather.

I'll work on finding the Swords post soon, I'm still working on my post in response to Ran's post so after I get that out of the way I'll look for it k?

@Ran: I'm pretty sure that Zen is town now, I already had a town read on him and him shooting didn't change anything.

 

[ranmaru]

Who do you think should get shot toMmorow? If people didnt want that, who would you comprimise as a second shootee?

 

[ranmaru]

Also July, how did you remember that GF gives back innocence in a cop report? (Since you say you forgot)

 

[July]

Well, Seph, he doesn't have to. Just make him accountable for his own actions. For example, if Kuz shoots someone with no reason or weak reason, shoot him the next day. (We'll have to have a shoot quickshooters policy unless we believe the quickshooter had good reason to)

We already did deal with the issue of quickshooting. I didn't see you quote anything about it in here but we talked about it a lot in pre-Day 1 and early Day 1 talk.

"scum can fake stances without voting"

So does it boil down to finding scum by seeing who can and cannot shoot then?

Kind of. It boils down to having scummy people shooting scummy people. With un-cc'ed cop and bomb, finding people who can't shoot is awesome because that means we just found scum, so that's deff important too.

Think of this: Scum and pr's can't shoot (except gf). Townies don't need to vote, since they can practically "Lynch scum" themselves. As we could see, BSL was for voting (since he as a pr who could not shoot), Ryker was telling others they could shoot and they have the power. Ryker had to play a confusing style so scum would avoid him. Scum want misshots, but they can only get that to happen by convincing or forcing others to shoot possible townies. Voting can accomplish this. Essentially there should be 2-3 other townies who would want a vote to happen. (Unless they hide) I say 2-3 since the GF can shoot, but we don't know if he'd want people to know if he can shoot.

The problem is so can making strong stances. The vote count doesn't reflect how many people said Gova is scummy/kinda scummy. The votes can accomplish this, which is true, but so can scum picks and making stances. Be skeptical of both, keep an eye on both who people vote and who their scum picks are, both are important and can be used by scum to manipulate lynches.

I won't retract my scum stance on you. It would be a weak stance, but replace now or be shot. Or pick up on your activity. Do not think people will go easy on you since you coasted to victory in Celeb.

True that coasting is bad and we need to take care of it sooner rather than later. However, unlike in Celeb, Delvro hasn't been active in other threads as well. Vocal is moving up in my scum picks because he has been online and posting elsewhere, but hasn't posted in here for a while.

Why are you fine with it, Luxor? Why have you given up on the voting system?

Do you still think Luxor is town? Because most of the posts you quote from him are like this, unlike Gova who you straight up agree with in some posts. If you do still think he is town, can you explain why?

July, can you tell me the pros and cons of a voting system? (Keep in mind that townies can shoot, and that only one GF can shoot)

Pros: traceable, concrete stances from people
Easy to tell if someone is flip-flopping on their stance
Makes it easy to see majority opinion

Cons: can be used and manipulated by scum to get people shot
Hard to keep up-to-date
Not used by everyone

The cons that I see seem to be cons we'd have to deal with without voting anyways. Scum could just find the person most townies find scum and jump on that wagon, and it would be hard to remember everyone's stances anyways. The not everyone is using it issue is the most unique problem to the voting system, and people are still giving strong stances without using it (like Ryker) except for the more inactive people so I don't see that as a big deal either.

Yeah I don't like that either. Has Zen ever assigned someone else to do it since Lux stopped? What if you had midterms all week, what do then?

I don't think so. I would still do it, hell I still post when I have midterms. It's honestly not that hard, I just need people to remind me every now and then when there are lulls between votes, and I could deff find the time to post at least that.

Idc about voting. I think people who are for voting should try shooting, hmm?

So people are voting need to shoot more than people are just downright scummy? Wrong. Idc if you read into people voting, but don't get caught up in it; you should be focusing on scumhunting but pretty much half this post is just about voting, instead of who is scum for doing scummy things.

No it wasn't. I feel as though you are half-assing on your scumpicks, bro. Like Luxor. Weakest scumpick ever. I know that you are essentially picking people you wouldn't trust in Endgame. Not really like they are dumb, we are new to the game you know.

Please explain how Luxor the weakest scum pick ever.

Clownbot, I hope you can fix that list. Bsl is your only scum pick, and he claimed cop. Try again bro.

I'd then think you are a cautious scum if you do not get 2 more scum picks.

Why use this against someone during your catch up? You know town doesn't know who is town or scum, so him having a wrong stance on BSL before BSL claimed isn't an issue.

I agree, it has already been speculated anyways. The Pr's already clamied and are semi-cleared so far. So there would be no reason for him to hide this. Could there be a reason for a townie to want to hide their role in this setup?

Had you changed your vote from BSL since he claimed cop? Who did you vote again?

May I ask you to post the vote count again?

No, not until I went back and realized my vote was on BSL to begin with, then when I updated the votecount I realized it and voted Luxor for shootee.

Sure, I will update it after this post and after I respond to any other posts that ninja this post.

So at this point he was town to you, since he wasn't null?

At this point I thought he was inferring he was a pr, so I didn't want to just say that or give too strong of an impression he was town so he wouldn't be nk'ed.

All: Did Delvro give his stances at all in Celeb?

Day 1 not so much, Day 2 was "don't kill Roxy! Kill Swiss!" Day 3 he claimed watcher or tracker I don't remember which, and then the rest I don't wanna talk about *sad panda*

(he took a strong stance against me and got me lynched, I was town roleblocker)

Can I ask why Kuz would be the shooter and not shootie?

I retract my stance of Swords over Kuz now. I retract my retraction of my earlier stance ON Kuz as well. You heard it here folks. I am re-evaluating my reads.

I am thinking Kuz is gf that is going against voting strongly, because he doesn't need to shoot.

Zen/July can't shoot, so they have to buddy each other.

I thought Kuz should be shooter because BSL was my top scum pick at this time and I thought BSL should be the one shot. However, realizing that BSL isn't scum, the godfather can't be investigated because he will come up innocent, godfather can shoot, and Kuz being godfather is a possibility, he honestly should be the shootee. Looking at my other scum picks, I don't really see any of them being godfather, and there is no other way to catch godfather other than to shoot him.

Now July comes in all (She came within 15 minutes after Zen responded to Ryker when Ryker insisted Zen shoot)



She also comes in preferring I shoot (To help her scumbuddy from being pressured into shooting, since he can't) , only because Ryker is the only person suspicious of Zen. I am suspicious of Zen.

Yeah, so this is all wrong, but I did already explain this. You were pushing someone you thought was scummy to shoot, I was pushing someone I thought was scummier, I can respect that move by you though.



Meh, I'm leaning more town with you after reading this. I disagree with most of what you say and you focus on the wrong stuff a lot (sooo much focus on voting, almost no mentions of Swords, Vocal, Summoner, a lot of focus on Ryker even though he's pretty much confirmed town) but you seem to be trying at least to scumhunt. And honestly if you were scum you wouldn't have to go through this much effort to try and scumhunt and your scum buddies could have caught you up on a lot of the things you talk about here. I'd rather focus on Kuz/Luxor/Vocal toMorrow, but I would really like to see your reads now after Zen has shot and your opinion on the people who pretty much got overlooked here (Granted, part of that is from inactivity on their part but toMorrow hopefully that won't be such a problem).

 

[July]

Also July, how did you remember that GF gives back innocence in a cop report? (Since you say you forgot)

Read the roles in the game set-up at the beginning of the game to make sure, but after Zen brought it up remembered godfather coming up in aimmaf a couple times.

 

[July]

@Zen: this is the post from Swords:

Hmm Gova, when you get back from WHOBA answer this question:



Lol at Gova attacking the one guy with a town read on him.

Right then, I think I'm fine with this then.

vote: Kuz for shootee
vote: Gova for shooter

Gova if the above scenario happens then please comply. I know that you don't believe Kuz to be scummy but realize that if the majority thinks so than it's much more likely that they're right and you're not. In any case, I'm willing to see you become an alley of the town.

Ryker what part of the case against Kuz aren't you buying? I'm fairly confident in my read on him, but you're just kind of dismissing it. I get the feeling that you're simply accepting Kuz because he's gotten on your "good side."

They both sound to me like he knows Gova is town. The first is saying that it is more likely that the majority is right than Gova about Kuz being scum, but what he says is just inferring that Gova is a wrong townie, not scum. Second line just seems like a disclaimer, as in he is voting him but still leaving open the possibility he could be town.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

oh hai 80 more posts to read

 

[Luxor]

I got some catching up to do as well.

 

[ranmaru]

@July:

We already did deal with the issue of quickshooting. I didn't see you quote anything about it in here but we talked about it a lot in pre-Day 1 and early Day 1 talk.

Ah, I see. I just quoted from page 2 and on. Can you state the gist of what you guys said about quickshooting?

Kind of. It boils down to having scummy people shooting scummy people. With un-cc'ed cop and bomb, finding people who can't shoot is awesome because that means we just found scum, so that's deff important too.

Yes, it would be awesome to find people who can't shoot.

The problem is so can making strong stances. The vote count doesn't reflect how many people said Gova is scummy/kinda scummy. The votes can accomplish this, which is true, but so can scum picks and making stances. Be skeptical of both, keep an eye on both who people vote and who their scum picks are, both are important and can be used by scum to manipulate lynches.

You are correct, it didn't. Thing is not that much people were voting anyways. Of course. Yet if someone makes strong stances, we'll have to see if they are willing to shoot.

True that coasting is bad and we need to take care of it sooner rather than later. However, unlike in Celeb, Delvro hasn't been active in other threads as well. Vocal is moving up in my scum picks because he has been online and posting elsewhere, but hasn't posted in here for a while.

Yes deff. Yeah Vocal and Seph have been on today. What is is. I would say kill an inactive, but I don't want to risk the game on all the people who are inactive. Obv if it's more than 3, it's town as well. ;-;

Do you still think Luxor is town? Because most of the posts you quote from him are like this, unlike Gova who you straight up agree with in some posts. If you do still think he is town, can you explain why?

Nah, he is null. I have seen no effort from him in implementing the system. Not risking the game on him though.

Pros: traceable, concrete stances from people
Easy to tell if someone is flip-flopping on their stance
Makes it easy to see majority opinion

Cons: can be used and manipulated by scum to get people shot
Hard to keep up-to-date
Not used by everyone

The cons that I see seem to be cons we'd have to deal with without voting anyways. Scum could just find the person most townies find scum and jump on that wagon, and it would be hard to remember everyone's stances anyways. The not everyone is using it issue is the most unique problem to the voting system, and people are still giving strong stances without using it (like Ryker) except for the more inactive people so I don't see that as a big deal either.

You see, I like paper trails. But we can't do that since most haven't even voted. If we try to force them, we waste time discussing stuff that isn't scumhunting.

I don't think so. I would still do it, hell I still post when I have midterms. It's honestly not that hard, I just need people to remind me every now and then when there are lulls between votes, and I could deff find the time to post at least that.

That is good determination. Hmmm, I wouldn't if I were you. I would just have someone else temporarily run it (choose at random between active people) And I'll remind you. I'll remind you guys of the 10 day deadline too.

So people are voting need to shoot more than people are just downright scummy? Wrong. Idc if you read into people voting, but don't get caught up in it; you should be focusing on scumhunting but pretty much half this post is just about voting, instead of who is scum for doing scummy things.

I have been scumhunting. Pretty much, half this thread was about voting and mechanics. I had to give my side of the story. This is not a case, this is a catch up, remember.

Please explain how Luxor the weakest scum pick ever.

Luxor asked Ryker questions and Ryker dodged them without reason. So then he said that Luxor should be shot for that. Zen says as well that Luxor was right to ask them. So I don't believe Ryker fully believes Luxor and Me are scummy. He just doesn't want us in endgame, and so would elect us to be shot. I like the end in mind, but we don't have much misshots to waste.

Why use this against someone during your catch up? You know town doesn't know who is town or scum, so him having a wrong stance on BSL before BSL claimed isn't an issue.

Did he change his scum picks? If he did, my bad. It was a catch-up.

No, not until I went back and realized my vote was on BSL to begin with, then when I updated the votecount I realized it and voted Luxor for shootee.

Ah ok got ya. Didn't Luxor say he was trigger happy? Why not elect Luxor to shoot someone else, like Summoner/Kuz? (scumhunting right here)

Sure, I will update it after this post and after I respond to any other posts that ninja this post.

kk.

At this point I thought he was inferring he was a pr, so I didn't want to just say that or give too strong of an impression he was town so he wouldn't be nk'ed.

Ah ok. But you still said "More than null" so if scum caught that, they know that he couldn't be scum, and the only other option would be "town" so he still COULD be nk'd.

Day 1 not so much, Day 2 was "don't kill Roxy! Kill Swiss!" Day 3 he claimed watcher or tracker I don't remember which, and then the rest I don't wanna talk about *sad panda*

(he took a strong stance against me and got me lynched, I was town roleblocker)

Ah I see. Yet here he replaced. But let us hope the replacement can bring up the activity.

I thought Kuz should be shooter because BSL was my top scum pick at this time and I thought BSL should be the one shot. However, realizing that BSL isn't scum, the godfather can't be investigated because he will come up innocent, godfather can shoot, and Kuz being godfather is a possibility, he honestly should be the shootee. Looking at my other scum picks, I don't really see any of them being godfather, and there is no other way to catch godfather other than to shoot him.

What do you think the gf would think of the voting system?

Yeah, so this is all wrong, but I did already explain this. You were pushing someone you thought was scummy to shoot, I was pushing someone I thought was scummier, I can respect that move by you though.

Zen said he was going to shoot, then asked Ryker if I should have shot instead. Honestly that made me think he couldn't shoot, and was trying to play off the idea that he COULD. And then you came in, re-iterating your stance of me shooting (even though you weren't asked). Oh ok, thank you.

Meh, I'm leaning more town with you after reading this. I disagree with most of what you say and you focus on the wrong stuff a lot (sooo much focus on voting, almost no mentions of Swords, Vocal, Summoner, a lot of focus on Ryker even though he's pretty much confirmed town) but you seem to be trying at least to scumhunt. And honestly if you were scum you wouldn't have to go through this much effort to try and scumhunt and your scum buddies could have caught you up on a lot of the things you talk about here. I'd rather focus on Kuz/Luxor/Vocal toMorrow, but I would really like to see your reads now after Zen has shot and your opinion on the people who pretty much got overlooked here (Granted, part of that is from inactivity on their part but toMorrow hopefully that won't be such a problem).

Meh? You are dissapointed? Disagreements happen.

Hmmm. I want summoner dead. Swords/Vocal/Luxor should shoot. I am scumhunting. Remember, that was a catch-up, not a case of who was scummy. Seph is null. I don't want to risk the game on these guys because that's more than 3.

I will tell you my reads when Gova flips. TomMorow Kuz can be shot. Luxor/Vocal/Swords should do the shooting.

Read the roles in the game set-up at the beginning of the game to make sure, but after Zen brought it up remembered godfather coming up in aimmaf a couple times.

Ah ok, thank you.

 

[ranmaru]

Also:

Swords/Luxor, I want some quick thoughts on:

Zen shooting Gova; Who BSL should cop; and your scumpicks. (Who should shoot , who should be shot)

The twilight might be over soon.

Also Luxor are you fully for voting or not?

 

[ranmaru]

Btw Seph still didn't come in to say NOT BOMB. Let's keep that in the back of our minds, k? (Don't think he said NOT COP)

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

We're in twilight?

Oh ****

Someone shot?

Okay, if so, here:

Assuming Gova was the one shot by Zen, then I'm going to have to say that I don't care too much to be honest. I would whether Gova shoot but I'm also fine seeing him go. Zen shooting him I don't care about. If it appeases people then fine.

BSL is dead toNight so whatever.

Scumpicks we're Kuz (to be shoot) and Gova (to shoot).

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Okay yeah found it.

Boy this is going to be a pain catching up.

 

[ranmaru]

Yes, we are.

I agree with Kuz being shot. You,Vocal, or Luxor should shoot. Add July to that list too, since she asked me how I felt about her shooting.

I also told Zen I wanted to implement a 10 day deadline from the start of the next DAY.

 

[X1-12]

Twilight 1 begins!

Thanks for the support guys :D

Kuz/replacement/Vocal/Summoner + obvtown Seph please post before the night phase.

Remember all, we have 24 hours of twilight after this.

Daykill: Gova

I'm suprised by the amount of support of Gova being shot despite no one considering him a play. Clown why you would want me to shoot your town read I do not know. Care to enlighten me on this?

A valid Daykill command has been submitted. Twilight will end at approximately 7AM tomorrow morning (GMT). This is just over 15 and a half hours from this post. Zen will start Day 2 with a 24 hour cooldown.

I am currently searching for a replacement for Delvro.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Swords and July: Would you be willing to compromis? You both want kuz as shooter/shootie. I want Gova to die. Will you guys agree to Kuz shooting Gova?

If it came down to this, then I would of been willing to compromise Gova being the one shoot, but I don't think I would want Kuz to shoot. Kuz has said that he can shoot, and I feel that he was not bluffing about that. Wouldn't want Kuz with that puesdo-clear tbh. Would whether have someone that I'm borderline iffy about have that privilege.

Zen do you think Kuz could of been bluffing when he said that he could shoot?

Ran I just started reading you're big post and I can already see that it's padded out with a lot of things that have already been covered.

 

[X1-12]

Summoner and -Vocal- get prodded

 

[ranmaru]

@Swords: It was a catch-up post. Of course it would be that way.

 

[Clownbot]

@Swords: It was a catch-up post. Of course it would be that way.

Ran, next time you replace into a game and make a catch-up post I'd recommend editing it as you go along.

 

[Clownbot]

Also, yes I removed BSL from my scumpicks.

After all, he is an

UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP...

 

[ranmaru]

I understand that. I mentioned that because I wanted to see a new scumpick from you.

So, who do you want to see shooting and shot tomMorow?

 

[Clownbot]

Probably Luxor, not sure if I have a preference as to shooter or shootee though. Really my list from earlier remains in tact (shooters: Delvro playerslot, Summoner, Sword, Luxor; shootees: all of the above, Kuz). I really wanted that to be what we did toDay (and toMorrow if it failed then) but after Zen said he was shooting Gova I pretty much threw my hands up in the air.

 

[X1-12]

Gheb replaces Delvro

 

[ranmaru]

Yes. I also wanted to see if he could do it.

I would be kool with Luxor shooting Kuz if you would like. Deff want Kuz shot tomMorow though. (I'd also want Summoner to shoot, but we can compromise)

 

[Clownbot]

If Gova flips scum Luxor isn't as likely scum to me, so it partly depends on the flip.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Haven't read anything yet. But since it's apparently twilight I get to read ... depending on how lazy I am.

 

[ranmaru]

If Gova flips scum Luxor isn't as likely scum to me, so it partly depends on the flip.

Ah. What do you think of July? I'd want her or Summoner to shoot. Who should shoot; July or Summoner? Why?

@Gheb:

Hello dere. After you read, let me know if you are for voting or not. Explain why.

Btw, Zen shot Gova. That is why it is twilight now.

 

[Clownbot]

Outside of a GF flip, probably Summoner, but I might be willing to go with her shooting upon a townGova flip. Maybe by designating him as shooter but not shootee she gets less blame if Gova dies and flips town. If he flips non-GF scum though I just don't feel like there's much there to be had with her.

 

[BSL]

@Swords: It was a catch-up post. Of course it would be that way.

Which is why you shouldnt make huge catch up posts like that.

About your earlier comment, I only skimmed it, and every other post, because I dont have time to read it.

Use some common sense.

 

[Xivii]

Clown, I agree on that Lux post. I'd say that's the scummiest thing he has done this game.

Why do you not see Luxor scum upon Gova scum?

@Swords, can you respond to July's point about you speaking to Gova as if you know he is town. (Not sure if you did). Also can you do as requested in 865 before the day end.

 

[Xivii]

Agree with Luxor shooting Kuz.

 

[ranmaru]

I just think "I hope we don't hit wrong" but I fail to see what Kuz has contributed to the game. I want to see him defend himself tomMorow to see what he says. Even now. I see him posting else where, and I saw Vocal post in another game, so what is up with him as well?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Swords, can you respond to July's point about you speaking to Gova as if you know he is town. (Not sure if you did). Also can you do as requested in 865 before the day end.

I already did actually. I told her that I do believe if Gova could shoot that I would believe he is more likely wrong townie than scum.

About Luxor:

Wouldn't mind him shooting Kuz toMarrow. Also

Everyone tell me what you think of this scenario: Summoner or Luxor shoots Kuz. Also detail which of the two you'd prefer to be shooter.

I also wouldn't mind Summoner shooting Kuz toMarrow either!

I would prefer Summoner though, just because I want to see if he's town, even more so than Luxor. I kinda feel like summoner just kind of slipped through the cracks toDay and no one really mentioned him. Definitely need to keep a closer eye out on him than Lux, who I feel is just useless townie.

Someone has got to try to convince me how Luxor is scummy, cause I'm simply having a a hard time believing it.

@Kuz: Remember, still want your thoughts on Ran when you get back.

 

[ranmaru]

Hi Gova.

Why do you think Zen shot you?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Oh, and btw, I do think that Luxor just kind of taking the suspicion against him is kinda weird, but I'm not totally convinced off of just that.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Oh and Zen, you can disregard my previous question towards you because I saw you did state earlier that you do believe that Kuz can shoot (unless you're opinion has as of now changed on that).

 

[ranmaru]

Oh, and btw, I do think that Luxor just kind of taking the suspicion against him is kinda weird, but I'm not totally convinced off of just that.

I don't understand, how did he take it against him? I saw that he was gonna do a catch up. Could you elaborate?

I also agree with Summoner > Luxor for shooting. I don't know why he feels like his role shouldn't be speculated, when both pr's have claimed.

Luxor is just a null that I don't want near end game, basically. It's hard. I would rather pick scummier people than Lux though.