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At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

Llort A. Ton

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I personally never used pistol in Doom 2016. The fodder zombies would die with one melee even on ultra violence, so I had no need to use it unless I was out of ammo with no gas. With fodder zombies taking 1-2 shotgun hits to stagger alone in Eternal, I really wouldnt have used it this time around. Gotta admit that pistol is really useful in the classic era of Doom, though,
 

TerminatorLOL

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Finally got Eternal yesterday and so far loving it.

So someone gifted me DOOM Eternal, so I was obligated to play it.
It's a good game, but WOW I am terrible at first-person shooters. The mouse controls are fine, but there's so many buttons on the keyboard that I lose track between glory killing, chainsaw, frag grenades, basic movement...
I was contemplating switching to a controller, was wondering if you think that's a terrible idea and I should stick with mouse+keyboard.
I'd suggest the controller, you really need to know what buttons to hit to manage your health, armor, and ammo quickly in this game.

I certainly take that as a sign not to expect too much from the remaining DLC.
Ehh (shrugs), I also thought Arms deserved a spot before the game even came out. Its a really safe pick, but I'd rather them get that out first then save it for a tone deaf final reveal like that 8th Fire Emblem.
 
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D

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Ehh (shrugs), I also thought Arms deserved a spot before the game even came out.
Personally I am ambivalent towards an ARMS character because I never played the game before.
I will say that I am happy for the fans. I'm more surprised that it took this long to add someone from ARMS considering how much Nintendo was promoting the title. You'd think Sakurai would have been able to play the game during its development, similar with how he played Three Houses to get a feel for how to design Byleth. It's better late than never.

There are 5 more characters, so let's hope for the best.
 

IsmaR

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Despite max pistol being the first thing I went for in 2016, I'm of the opinion that it would go too much against Eternal's combat loop. There are much more ways this game to already farm fodder enemies (not even counting blood punch, equipment, or chainsaw, some enemies even get staggered by simply dashing into them), and I would imagine there's such little point to making it no longer have infinite ammo despite this prototype obviously not being based on argent/plasma like 2016's. That's not to say I wouldn't be glad to see it down the line, maybe in DLC and/or multiplayer.

On the note of difficulties in specific boss fights, I've been finding it's much harder to grasp how truly tough a specific encounter is now that I've been going back to do challenge runs for milestones (clearing Nightmare 100% first spoiled me as now I feel so sluggish/limited without any of the perks in low% and/or the first few levels of Ultra Nightmare). I'd rather fight a Marauder with faster dash speed than Khan Maker without air control/time slowdown/more than your base health and ammo.
 

TerminatorLOL

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So one gripe I have with Eternal right now is that you can only use the Ripatorium once per visit to the hub.

The elevator doesn't come back up and you can't drop down.

You have to reload your checkpoint if you want to farm upgrade challenges or practice. I don't know why they designed it like this.
 
D

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I have my idea for a Doom Slayer set ready! I was thinking to just do specials for now, but I thought of a whole moveset for him pretty easily with some unique mechanics.
Attributes: Doom Slayer is an agile character, boasting both tremendous speed and power. He's surprisingly pretty heavy too, as heavy as Ganondorf or Snake for comparison. Doom Slayer's moves are very focused on securing early KOs and thus cause a lot of knockback. This comes at a price though... he doesn't deal damage the best and his recovery is pretty predictable.

Mechanic 1 - Glory: When land a move that causes a tremendous amount of knockback, enough to get an opponent in a magnifying glass, Doom Slayer is able to heal off some damage. This is mainly to resemble the Glory mechanic in the new Doom games.
Mechanic 2 - Ammo: In my moveset, all of Doom Slayer's smash attacks and all but one of his aerials uses ammo. If you have ammo, the attacks become more powerful. If you have no ammo, Doom Slayer's attacks are weaker; you will have to go on the defensive and wait until enough ammo refills or use the Chainsaw to recover ammo. To make things simple for Smash, all of his weapons use the same ammo so that you won't have to worry about ammo types. The max amount of ammo he has is 50; smash attacks use 5 rounds and aerials use 3 rounds. If you have less than 3 rounds, you can still do a smash attack or aerial normally.
Mechanic 3 - Armor: This is not super armor. When Doom Slayer has Armor, the Armor will absorb some damage and Doom Slayer will receive less damage like in the older Doom games.

Jab: Doom Slayer brings out a pistol and shoots as a flurry attack and it ends with an explosion. Like in Doom 2016, the pistol has infinite ammo and thus won't affect your ammo count.

Tilts: In all of his tilts, Doom Slayer will use the Doomblade, so his attacks are a bit disjointed here.
Forward: Doom Slayer punches with a hook motion.
Up: Doom Slayer does an uppercut.
Down: Doom Slayer does a punch forward, but it's more like a stab with the Doomblade.
His forward and up tilts are actually pretty powerful in terms of knockback. His down tilt is more of a poke for him that could hinder very linear recoveries.

Smashes: Doom Slayer uses his arsenal for his smash attacks. When you use a smash attack, it uses 5 rounds.
Forward: The combat shotgun is Doom Slayer's preferred weapon for his forward smash. It deals more damage and knockback up close and fires off a short explosive that is bit weaker.
Up: The rocket launcher is going to be Doom Slayer's friend for this smash attack. Like Snake's up smash, the longer you charge the smash attack, the farther it will go. Doom Slayer will also deal damage just by bringing it out, like Snake's again. Unlike Snake's up smash, the rocket won't come back to the ground and it explodes in midair.
Down: Doom Slayer takes his plasma rifle and shoots and slam down the weapon at the same time. The result is the weapon emitting an electric shockwave that surrounds and circles around him.

Throws: Doom Slayer's throws are all violent and vicious, just as you would expect.
Pummel: Doom Slayer grabs with his right hand, and punches with his left hand.
Forward: Doom Slayer slams the opponent to the ground, as if he was Banjo and the opponent was Kazooie during their forward smash.
Down: Doom Slayer knocks the opponent down and stomps on them.
Backward: Doom Slayer just throws the opponent behind him as if they were nothing.
Up: Doom Slayer does an uppercut, like a Mortal Kombat-esque uppercut.
His forward throw is the most powerful in terms of knockback, while his down and up throws are good to set up juggles.

Dash Attack: Doom Slayer does a Dash forward, punches with his right hand, and emits an electric shock. This is meant to represent the Blood Punch from Doom Eternal, so it's naturally very powerful.

Aerials: Aside from his neutral air, all of his aerials have him use his arsenal. His aerials are not as powerful as his smash attacks, but they are helpful in getting off-stage KOs. With or without ammo, Doom Slayer will do an additional move on top of firing his shots, so that he won't be completely helpless in the air.
Neutral: Doom Slayer uses the Doomblade and moves in a clockwise motion from the front of him to behind him. The best comparison I can give is Cloud's neutral air.
Forward: Doom Slayer does a forward kick while firing rounds from his machine gun. The knockback is weaker from the machine gun rounds, but is good at gimping very weak recoveries.
Up: Doom Slayer takes out his Doomblade and machine gun again and fires three rounds. The machine gun rounds are perfect for juggles while the Doomblade can help him secure KOs.
Backward: Doom Slayer does a kick behind him while pulling out his combat shotgun. Similar to his forward smash, it's much better when you use this move up close and personal rather than from a distance.
Down: Doom Slayer uses his rocket launcher and the rocket explodes from underneath him, causing a powerful meteor smash. This move actually has a unique property in that if it uses ammo, Doom Slayer will reach some height from this move and you can use when you are trying to recover; this is a reference to Rocket Jumping in Quake. Without ammo, Doom Slayer won't gain extra height.

Specials: All of his specials are based on their incarnations from Doom Eternal.
Neutral - Frag Grenade: Doom Slayer shoots out a Frag Grenade from his Equipment Launcher. With this move, you are able to aim in front of the Slayer in several angles. The max distance it reaches is about over half of Final Destination. In comparison to Snake's Grenades, the Frag Grenade is more powerful in terms of knockback when it explodes. What it makes up in power, it loses in flexibility; unlike Snake's Grenades, you cannot use the Frag Grenade as an item.
Side - Flame Belch: This move is how you get Armor. Doom Slayer's Equipment Launcher spews out fire for a short period of time and you are able to aim it in arc-like directions. Unlike Bowser's and Charizard's neutral specials, you cannot hold down this move indefinitely. However, the move does have a strong finisher in comparison to those moves.
Down - Chainsaw: Without having to wait for the ammo to refill, this is how you get Ammo. Doom Slayer brings out his trusty chainsaw and it has two charge related attacks. The first level is when you don't fully charge it and he just does a stab forward; the longer you charge it, the more damage and knockback you do. If you fully charge it, Doom Slayer holds the chainsaw over him and slams it downward; this gives the attack more reach, power, stronger against shields, more ammo, and even gains super armor. This move can be released early with the attack button and it cannot be cancelled. You could say it's better than Byleth's down special, but the chainsaw doesn't easily break shield's like Byleth's does.
Up - Meathook: Doom Slayer takes out his trusty super shotgun that he can aim in multiple directions. It's a tether recovery and he can latch onto the ledge or towards opponents. Unlike other tether recoveries like Joker's and Ivysaur's, the Meathook takes longer to come out and is thus more predictable. He can use 5 ammo rounds for a powerful shot while he's recovering or latching onto an opponent. When he latches onto an opponent with the Meathook, they get stunned, Doom Slayer goes towards them, and he can shoot at them with the super shotgun or go for a powerful punch attack.

Final Smash - BFG 9000: Say hello to Doom Slayer's... massive friend! Doom Slayer takes out the BFG and does one powerful blast out of it. The projectile goes in a linear fashion; anyone caught in the shot will be stunned, take tremendous damage, and then get knocked back while anyone close enough to the shot will take some minor damage. Anyone over 100%, whether they were caught in the projectile or were near the beam, will be automatically KO'd and Doom Slayer will heal off some damage thanks to Glory.
 

PublicServant

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So one gripe I have with Eternal right now is that you can only use the Ripatorium once per visit to the hub.

The elevator doesn't come back up and you can't drop down.

You have to reload your checkpoint if you want to farm upgrade challenges or practice. I don't know why they designed it like this.
I can only assume that being able to farm the Masteries without the threat of death was the exact reason why they didn't allow repeated uses, since that would make the Ripatorium a vital component to abuse for an Ultra-Nightmare run.
 

Powerman293

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I've been playing Doom 2's Master Levels the past few days and man they're hard. If I didn't have the ability to quicksave, I don't think I'd have the patience to beat these levels.

I'm not a big fan of the Doom 1 and 2 aesthetic. So I'm fine if they went with 2016 + Eternal look for the Slayer and his stage asides from a costume and some spirit designs.
 

8-peacock-8

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Been loving DOOM Eternal and DOOM 64.

Got to say that my want for the DOOMGUY in Smash has grown stronger since I started playing these games again.
 

Ridley_Prime

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

So this is what the official model for Eternal more or less looks like under the helmet huh? Seems to resemble the face and hair from the original game more than anything I’ve seen thus far, and might I add he’s aged pretty well all things considered.

Doubt we’d see the slayer under the helmet in Smash though regardless of role, but still something of note.
 

TerminatorLOL

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Anyone else think of the Mii Gunner when you look at the Zombie Solider's new gun arms? If the Doom Slayer does get in, these designs feel too perfect not to make into costumes for the Miis.

I can only assume that being able to farm the Masteries without the threat of death was the exact reason why they didn't allow repeated uses, since that would make the Ripatorium a vital component to abuse for an Ultra-Nightmare run.
I think they should have just made it so you can't progress the Masteries when your in there if that's the case. That way you can at least keep practicing without reloading the checkpoint (and get to that BFG Division poster more then once). I guess I just don't know what the point of the Ripatorium is if the way I'm using it is abusing the system.
 

doomguywhen1993

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Stage ideas:
* UAC: Mix some locations of new Doom with the fancy and iconic KDITD textures (Doom classic textures are like the series' equivalent of the level props from Mario and Sonic games, they even have history tied with maps and Wads).
* Hell: Start mostly on classic Inferno because that has the most versatile Hell and then take some bits from later games, mostly to make up for the lack of controversial elements like the flesh and bone walls.
* Earth: Obviously Eternal and maybe some bits from 2 like Dead Simple.
* Night Sentinel world: Maybe something including some of Eternal's level mechanics.
* Urdak: I guess this being an alien Heaven makes it safe enough for Smash representation but knowing the series' history with topics of satanism, Sandy Petersen, Jesus in some Quake games, Spear of Destiny, Holy Water Pistol etc, i feel like a Heaven in Doom could have been something more than this.
Maybe something to draw comparisons to Hell so there's the typical religious and biblical stuff but also elements of science fiction and fantasy.
Robot angels with exposed brains and tech would coexist with other things, like those you'd expect out of a Wad like Eviternity.
Maybe they wanted to make their Heaven more unique and not as comparible to what you see out of Bayonetta, Shin Megami Tensei or even Diablo (Or maybe someone at ZeniMax literally believes having Heaven in a Doom game would cause some controversy for some reason).
Like, it's not even mainly called Heaven, while Hell is still Hell at some level.

I think my issue with the Marauder is that neither his design or gameplay invoke some "rival" energy like Dante vs Vergil.
He has a somewhat Praetor suit armor, dashing and SSG but he doesn't go that far as an antithesis to Doomguy.
Might be because the games focus on making Doomguy strong and versatile, so a rival may not really work.
A problem with tying different Doom games together is when they have different directions and lore, so Hell went from cybernizing demons themselves to have the UAC and Urdak to make them stronger.
Doomguy and Slayer being the same makes sense, when you consider the bits of fanservice and Doom's pop culture identity seen in the games, but it feels like despite the new games having lore and forming connections to the older games, it leaves out some things.
Therefore, the ultimate explenation is with a multiverse that has different art styles, story, even music etc, so technically anything can happen.
There's also how the Gladiator doesn't have green blood despite his design and probably more to point out what may be id not doing their homework, in a series whose setting was more of a concept mixing different ideas, that works because of a lack of lore.
Someone like MarphyBlack pointing out random details and obscure trivia could have been someone to handle the lore.

The cut pistol looks great and i've seen someone even compare it to the weapon Doomguy carries in the original cover for the first game.
Obviously doesn't fit the core gameplay but maybe some future DLC could change that.
Doomguy's face being ugly seems weird considering a leaked concept art piece almost nailed the look.
Maybe if he were to be in Smash, he could get a proper 3D model of his face.
 

TerminatorLOL

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So some thoughts on the lore

So now that we confirmed that The Slayer is Flynn Taggart Doomguy, now everyone can speculate on whether or not Samuel Hayden is the Seraphim.

  • The Seraphim's name was Samur Maykr
  • Their both voiced by Darin De Paul
  • Both say the line "Take it, it will give you strength... help you on your journey"
  • Hayden has a suspiciously large amount of knowledge about the Night Sentinels, Maykrs, and Urdak
  • Hayden made VEGA, who we find out is The Father, who went missing after the Seraphim left Urdak
  • A door on Urdak welcomes you as the Seraphim
  • That ARC guy said Hayden's body was "alien"
  • VEGA says that the Fortress of Doom's architecture is similar to Hayden
  • He refers to humanity as "your people"
Since we know there was a human Samuel Hayden. I'm thinking that the Seraphim went into hiding by building himself a new body and claiming the identity of a dead man. By pretending to be Dr. Hayden's consciousness in a new robot body he could use UAC's resources to produce his own argent energy and lead a party to retrieve the Slayer's tomb from hell (which he couldn't get too in his old Maykr body)

I also heard that Eternal is getting some single player DLC, I'm hoping well get some info on who The Wretch was, and maybe explain what happened in the time gap between 2016 and Eternal.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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So has anyone gotten into Eternal's battle mode yet? Just started to recently, and my mixed reception tells me it's something I'm gonna be on and off from playing, apart from having a couple other games to play soon too. I like at least how they gave a tutorial for the general rundown as well as how to play each of the different demons. There's a bit more depth to their gameplay than there was before, but the overall package of 2 vs1 kinda feels like a step down from Doom 2016's multiplayer. I know it's not one of the main focuses for the series and more of a secondary thing, but 2016's online I would say had plenty replay value once they made all the DLC free at least. Not feeling there'll be that much with Eternal's battle mode unless perhaps they add more features to it later. On the flipside, they got their priorities straight with some campaign DLC this time around which is planned, which we never got for Doom 2016 despite the demand for it.

The Baron of Hell was one of my favorite multiplayer demons in 2016, but at least he's a summonable one here, so it's something I guess. The playable Spectre not returning was probably for the best, fun as he was. That said, can already tell the Archvile and Marauder will be my favorite demons to play in Eternal, despite the latter not having his shield when controlling him.
 
D

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Doom Eternal monster ranking. Tell me if you agree, I'll give explanations if asked.

I would put the Cacodemon in the "Non-threat" tier personally. There were times that they KO'd Doom Slayer, but the number is honestly insignificant. I used the Sticky Bombs upgrade for the shotgun extremely often and I always thought "Free health" when I saw the Cacodemon.
 

HansShotFirst20

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I would put the Cacodemon in the "Non-threat" tier personally. There were times that they KO'd Doom Slayer, but the number is honestly insignificant. I used the Sticky Bombs upgrade for the shotgun extremely often and I always thought "Free health" when I saw the Cacodemon.
The most threatening thing about them is when you mistime the glory kill and fall into a pit lmao
 

GolisoPower

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So a new update for Doom I and II came out. It says it made some improvements to the audio, changes to the Automap, and added a new add-on in the form of No End in Sight.
 
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Powerman293

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So a new update for Doom I and II came out. It says it made some improvements to the audio, changes to the Automap, and added a new add-on in the form of No End in Sight.
I just forgot that Final Doom levels were in those add ons.... Welp, looks like I am nowhere near done with this game yet lol.
 

KillerCage

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BrawlFan1 just released his moveset for Doom Slayer.

I liked his idea of bringing in both Ryu/Ken's button input and Hero's mana gauge for Doom Slayer. This does make him more difficult to play, but it does allows him to be a threat at close range.
 

Llort A. Ton

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Doom Eternal monster ranking. Tell me if you agree, I'll give explanations if asked.

Id move imps and gargoyles to ammo. The only time they ever killed me was one fight in level 3 (cultist base) where there was like 2 mancubi, a caco, and 10 gargoyles and they all ganged up on me.
 

axel_

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So I looked back at my old render for Doomguy and I realized, "Damn. This kinda sucks."
Sooooooo I went back and redid it.
doomguy smash render v2.png

Edit: Made changes to the model so the breastplate isn't as shiny.
 
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PublicServant

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axel_

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Looking great already!

Are you using Source Filmmaker to create these renders? If so, this might interest you: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2037853090
Indeed, I did use SFM.

I did mess around with the Eternal model for classic Doomguy a couple days before starting this project, and honestly I'm not a huge fan of it. The color of the armor is a bit too bright for my liking (especially compared to the original sprite) and I feel like his armor is really oversized, especially the helmet. You can tell they tried really hard to make its size fit the main Eternal design, and in my personal opinion it just doesn't work out.
 

PublicServant

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Indeed, I did use SFM.

I did mess around with the Eternal model for classic Doomguy a couple days before starting this project, and honestly I'm not a huge fan of it. The color of the armor is a bit too bright for my liking (especially compared to the original sprite) and I feel like his armor is really oversized, especially the helmet. You can tell they tried really hard to make its size fit the main Eternal design, and in my personal opinion it just doesn't work out.
While I can't knock one's personal preference, I will say that issues regarding proportions and colour can be easily fixed by adjusting the FOV of your shot and the position of your light sources.

Take, for example, these two images of Doomguy's face in Eternal (the second has FOV and Lighting fixes)

Would you believe it if I said that both images use the same model?
 

Powerman293

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While I can't knock one's personal preference, I will say that issues regarding proportions and colour can be easily fixed by adjusting the FOV of your shot and the position of your light sources.

Take, for example, these two images of Doomguy's face in Eternal (the second has FOV and Lighting fixes)

Would you believe it if I said that both images use the same model?
Top one looks like Josh Brolin lol.
 

Ben Holt

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While I can't knock one's personal preference, I will say that issues regarding proportions and colour can be easily fixed by adjusting the FOV of your shot and the position of your light sources.

Take, for example, these two images of Doomguy's face in Eternal (the second has FOV and Lighting fixes)

Would you believe it if I said that both images use the same model?
Why does the bottom one look like Pete Buttigieg with insomnia?
download (3).jpeg
 

HansShotFirst20

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Anyone else think the Betrayer is gonna end up playable at some point in Eternal's lifespan? I think he'll probably be the default skin for P2 if we ever get a co-op mode of some sort.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Doom is Smash would be badass. I can already imagine the fast-paced shooting hijinks with all the cool weapons he has. Also, the music :p



So I definitely support! ...Even if the way Bethesda talked about it makes it unlikely... because Doomguy is cool.
 
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Powerman293

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You guys think anything from Doom 64 is gonna get represented in Smash? I mean, I assume there's not much Doom 64 specific. But hey, maybe Sakurai will surprise us and give Doom Slayer the Unmaker past a certain percentage like Terry's Go meter or something.
 

ivanlerma

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You guys think anything from Doom 64 is gonna get represented in Smash? I mean, I assume there's not much Doom 64 specific. But hey, maybe Sakurai will surprise us and give Doom Slayer the Unmaker past a certain percentage like Terry's Go meter or something.
right now i'm thinking a track from DOOM 64 could come.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Anyone else liking how much Samuel Hayden’s ironically become a meme lately with his lines?

You can’t just blow a hole into the surface of Mars.
The longer the Icon of Sin is on earth, the stronger he will become. (Why did they have him repeat that line anyway?)
Etc.

It’s interesting too, because the end of Doom 2016 at first had most of us thinking he would become some kind of adversary the next game, when he was wielding a crucible blade, but they did a bait and switch with him. I didn’t mind him essentially becoming the next VEGA for you in Eternal, but can’t help but wonder if there was some missed opportunity with Hayden.

I think he may have been a key part in Doomslayer’s past and rise to power regardless, with how much more he knew about Doomguy than he was initially letting on. Him and VEGA are as much a part of the main character’s development as Cortana has been to Master Chief.
 

PublicServant

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You guys think anything from Doom 64 is gonna get represented in Smash? I mean, I assume there's not much Doom 64 specific. But hey, maybe Sakurai will surprise us and give Doom Slayer the Unmaker past a certain percentage like Terry's Go meter or something.
More than likely, it'll be a remix of the Main theme.

Though the Motherdemon may be eligible to become a spirit.
 

MattX20

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Does anyone know when the Switch port for Eternal is supposed to come out?
 
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