At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

Powerman293

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Interesting take, personally I prefer the Eternal design over 2016's Praetor suit. If I had things my way though, i'd make Doomguy's default skin his original Doom 1 and 2 look, with the Eternal and 64 designs as alternates. Definitely gonna use the classic skin for my first playthrough of Eternal as well.
I'd also take the Doom 2016 design of all his weapons as well. Never been a big fan of how the weapons looked in the original Doom games asides from the Super Shotgun.
 

EarlTamm

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Personally, I prefer the Doom 2016 look over Eternal(Both are great though) and expect whatever modern equivalent they choose to be main skin, if just due to the moveset they use likely being more modern Doom inspired. I fully expect the classic to still be there though, as Eternal showcased it can work fine over the modern template.
 

PublicServant

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I mean, Doom Eternal more than clearly shows through its skins that all you'd need to make work is to add the Doomblade and Equipment Cannon. After that, almost anything could conceivably translate into a skin (Including Samus' Power Suit or Master Chiefs Mjolnir.

As for skins, I wouldn't mind them going all out and adding a whole bunch of unique skins, namely:
  1. Eternal Praetor Suit (Default)
  2. Demonic Suit
  3. Phobos Suit
  4. Gladiator Suit
  5. Doom 2016 Praetor Suit
  6. Doom 3 Armour
  7. Doom 64 Armour
  8. Classic Doom/Doomguy armour.
 

Megadoomer

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Doom 64 came out this morning (I figured it wouldn't be out until noon), though I want to beat Doom 2 at the very least before I get it. (no idea what happened to Doom 4-63, or Doom 65-2015)

For Doom 2, I just beat Dead Simple (I'm assuming the name's ironic, since it introduces the Mancubus and Arachnotron enemies) and Tricks and Traps (which was fun - wasn't expecting one of the bosses (two if you count the Barons of Hell) of Doom 1 to show up).
 
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I started playing Doom 64 for the first time.

Goddamn, is it a shame that this game was forgotten. I can understand why it was forgotten, but damn! The lighting diversifies the levels, the way the map changes in some levels are creative and cool (Especially the Terraformer), and the enemies, while different, are still recognizable. For some reason, though, some of them give me that Aardman claymation vibe, especially the Pinky demon.
 
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Fun fact, it seems the jolly lot from the early days of Naughty Dog spent their time playing Doom.

 
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Got the Unmaker and its first Demon Key in Doom 64.

I think I'm in love. It's got firepower out the wazoo, killing a Pain Elemental in about a few shots! I'm obscenely glad iD Software brought this back for Eternal. All the more reason to look forward to it!
 

Northadox

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I've been getting into Doom recently so I figured I'd give the lad a moveset.
doomguy_moveset.png

People nowadays probably are more acquainted with 2016 and Eternal nowadays with Doom, but the series is so monumental that honestly I think there should be a great portion of content for the original two games, which were a phenomenon back in the 90s.

Let's go over his moveset first. Doomguy wouldn't be like your typical zoner - Doomguy, despite his appearance, would be super agile with his groundspeed and airspeed. His gameplan is to get in the enemies' face and blow them away with powerful close-range implements, such as his Super Shotgun or the Chainsaw. His Explosive Barrel special serves as a mix-up that can be potentially backfired onto Doomguy with crafty opponents. It could be compared to Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant or Duck Hunt's Trick Shot, only lacking agency in exchange for a lot of power.

Doomguy's Chainsaw could be compared to Banjo's Breegull Blaster, but no projectiles are fired. It's mostly how Doomguy is able to move when using it. When opponents are caught, pressing the special button again will exit the mode with Doomguy jerking the chainsaw upwards. It capturing opponents is kinda like how it's used in the original Doom, by continually stun-locking opponents.

Where Doomguy struggles with is his recovery. The Rocket Launcher is Doomguy's up special; he'll fire it downward, granting him so recoil while in mid-air. If he makes contact with the explosion, he'll blast far up. While rocket jumping isn't much of a thing in the original Doom (at least vertical rocket jumps, anyways), it's a staple of the FPS genre, which Doomguy is supposed to represent. This grants him more agility at the cost of some %, but it's hardly much of a recovery when used without a surface underneath. Doomguy will be able to act after using it, allowing him an airdodge recovery afterwards, but his lack of a sufficient enough recovery will be his core weakness in exchange for his power on stage. Like Little Mac, but, um...less bad.

What else could be Doomguy's Final Smash but the BFG 9000? Imagine it like the Dragoon item, but with a large, powerful projectile being fired while in the first-person mode (not sure if the tracers would be there as well...maybe it'd work like it does in 2016?). It also references the FPS genre with its first person mode! I think it'd be pretty good.

Let's talk other moves. Doomguy's jab would be a simple punch, alike his fists in the original games. Think of it like Ganondorf's jab - just a reliable, get-off-me tool. His other tilts would consist of him bashing with his weapons or kicking. His Smash attacks would fire other weapons - the Chaingun could be Doomguy's Forward Smash, for example, and his aerials could also follow a similar trend. I'd keep the weapons to ones that appear in both the original Doom games and 2016, for consistency between the designs. His grabs would reference the Glory Kills of 2016 and Eternal, just as brutal as they are in those games...minus the gore, of course.

Speaking of the differences between designs, as the image says, the "Doomguy" costume would have Doomguy's original looks for his weapons, alongside having his face featured in the HUD reacting to the battle, again, like in the original games, which would be an excellent touch. 2016 would omit the face (as he's supposed to be kind of like a faceless badass in 2016/Eternal) and swap the weapons/barrel for their 2016 looks. If Doomguy has his grunts as well, these could also be omitted with his 2016 look. I can't think of many specific alternates, but they could reference enemies, power-ups, other iD titles, the collectible skins on 2016/Eternal, whatever.

Let's talk his stage! As there's not really a specific key location in Doom, something generic based off of the UAC facilities you blast through in the Doom games would be fitting. Here's my idea:

stage idea.png


Forgive the simple look, this is just meant to get the idea across. The blue represents platforms/ground and the red marks represent doors that can be opened. While fighting, power-ups and keys would spawn on the stage. Power-ups would be the ones from the Doom franchise (Armor, Berserk, Quad Damage, Haste, etc.) granting you similar buffs to the Find Mii stage, while the keys would open up random doors which would contain power-ups, or various demons from the Doom franchise (curse those monster closets!). The stage would probably resemble the environments seen in 2016 and Eternal, though I'd get a kick if it was styled just like a Doom .wad...

Let's talk music - you can see my selection in the image up there. 2016 and Eternal have a lot of great tracks, but as they're rather lengthy and best suited for the mood of 2016/Eternal themselves, I think the more consistent, melodic tunes from earlier Doom games would be desired. I hope that despite them sometimes being ripoffs of rock/metal songs of Doom's era, they could still be implemented. Notably, I also included Sadistic and Hate Machine, tunes from the pseudo-official Final Doom (Evilution specifically) and John Romero's SIGIL, which would be great to represent the strong community behind the original Doom titles. Doom 64 and Doom 3 have their main themes as well...mainly because a lot of their other songs are super creepy and probably don't fit the high octane battles of Smash Bros. The song selections of Doom 1 and 2 are mostly personal taste, but you could probably swap them with other songs. As Doom 1/2 music are also originally MIDIs, they could use a remix - but for some songs that would remove that MIDI magic! Definitely do need a remix of At Doom's Gate, though, same with Running from Evil.

I also pondered the series logo. Could be the Slayer symbol, the UAC symbol...but I think the Doom logo itself is concise enough for the games. If Street Fighter can just use the series' initials for its logo, I can't see why Doom couldn't use its iconic logo as well.

That's about it though. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
 

cool mario bros

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Got the Unmaker and its first Demon Key in Doom 64.

I think I'm in love. It's got firepower out the wazoo, killing a Pain Elemental in about a few shots! I'm obscenely glad iD Software brought this back for Eternal. All the more reason to look forward to it!
I ran out of ammo and couldn’t kill the Pain Elemental in Level 6. Had to make a strategic escape from it and the barons by the exit.
 

KingDoop

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I was watching a doom 64 retrospective the other day. Its said the game was forgotten because it didn't evolve like other shooters, namely quake and goldeneye.
Playing doom 64 for the first time today and it's crazy how much better it holds up then those other games. Goldeneye is unplayable today but I've been going back and forth between 64 and eternal all day and having a great time with both.
Sticking with sprites for enemies may have hurt it in 97 but it's great today, as imo it has aged better than most N64 games
 
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hello doomers, iv'e been trying to play DOOM and currently i'm on chapter 2 but iv'e realize i am missing a few keycards on some levels and i can only find the exit after picking up one keycard. so i am left wondering do i need to find all keycards for something?
 

Megadoomer

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hello doomers, iv'e been trying to play DOOM and currently i'm on chapter 2 but iv'e realize i am missing a few keycards on some levels and i can only find the exit after picking up one keycard. so i am left wondering do i need to find all keycards for something?
Some levels will only have one or two keycards.
 

Davidius

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Interesting take, personally I prefer the Eternal design over 2016's Praetor suit. If I had things my way though, i'd make Doomguy's default skin his original Doom 1 and 2 look, with the Eternal and 64 designs as alternates. Definitely gonna use the classic skin for my first playthrough of Eternal as well.
Yeah classic design would be my desired default as well. To me 2016 is the weakest design and looks like it tried to channel Master Chief too much.
 

axel_

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So, now that Eternal's out, I guess I should ask something I've been reflecting on: How much of Eternal should be present in Doom Slayer's moveset in Smash?

Personally, I think it should be kept to a minimum, with maybe one Normal move being related to it. For all of Eternal's perfections I think a moveset can be structured just fine with only the classic games & 2016 as a basis. Using Eternal entirely would be like Terry having a KOF XIV meter just because it's new.

Maybe I'm just too much of a Doom boomer that was upset at how bad that Source Gaming moveset was.
 
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So, now that Eternal's out, I guess I should ask something I've been reflecting on: How much of Eternal should be present in Doom Slayer's moveset in Smash?

Personally, I think it should be kept to a minimum, with maybe one Normal move being related to it. For all of Eternal's perfections I think a moveset can be structured just fine with only the classic games & 2016 as a basis. Using Eternal entirely would be like Terry having a KOF XIV meter just because it's new.

Maybe I'm just too much of a Doom boomer that was upset at how bad that Source Gaming moveset was.
I believe there should be at least two things that would adamantly be from Doom Eternal, like the Doomblade and the shoulder cannon. Take a look at the moveset I made.
Unique Mechanic: Glory Kills:
As the Doom Slayer damages his enemy, a Slayer's Mark will start forming over the opponent's model. When the Slayer's Mark completely encompasses the opponent, they will be prone to a Glory Kill, a brutal attack that instantly KOs the opponent with a red-colored KO explosion. However, this requires a lot of dedication, as the Doom Slayer must deal 100% damage to a single opponent to complete the Slayer's Mark, and even then it's for a mere eight-second period for the Glory Kill. After the period ends, the Slayer must deal another 100% damage before they are prone. But besides that, Glory Killing can provide more than just a free kill. It can boost his Specials, and heal for .5x of all excess damage above 100%. Each Glory Kill is unique to each character and causes a unique "Glory Zoom", which turns the screen red on black on the final hit of the Glory Kill.

Jab: The Doom Slayer will do two hook punches before bashing them over the head with the flashlight from Doom 3. In dark rooms, you can even see a little light emanating from it. For his rapid jab, the Doom Slayer will lunge the chainsaw forwards, hacking them up.

F-tilt: The Doom Slayer will fire his pistol in front of himself. This is a very disjointed hurtbox, much like Bullets Arts, but is much less spammable.

U-tilt: The Doom Slayer swipes his chainsaw over himself. This has some good range but doesn't really have that much kill power, as the chainsaw is meant to be a sustained-damage weapon.

D-tilt: Same as F-tilt, but crouching.

Dash Attack: The Doom Slayer will lunge out with a straight punch, Blade of Doom extended. The Blade itself does some decent damage by itself but does even more damage at the fist.

Side Smash: After some long wind-up, the Doom Slayer will viciously swing the chainsaw in front of himself, dealing 8 hits of damage total. This doesn't have a charging hitbox like Corrin's Side Smash, but is great at whittling down your opponent.

Up Smash: Aiming his new toy, the Ballista, upwards, the Doom Slayer will fire a shot from it, reaching extra high into the top of the screen. This has the highest range for an Up-Smash ever, beating even Palutena's Up Smash, but it's as thin as the Belmonts' Up Smash, making it difficult to hit with.

Down Smash: After loading two shells into the Super Shotgun, the Doom Slayer will fire it at both sides of himself, referencing the Super Shotgun Mastery from Doom 2016. Each blast is dismal in terms of damage and knockback from far away, but the sweet spot at the muzzle of the gun makes it even more of a kill move than a majority of his moves.
Grab and Pummel: Lifting them into the air by the neck like the unfortunate Deag Nilox, the Doom Slayer will squeeze the opponent's neck (Or where their neck should be) for his pummel. The pummel itself has very average speed and damage.

F-throw: A brutal one-two punch that knocks the opponent forwards. This throw does some decent damage for an F-throw, but isn't generally useful for killing.

D-throw: The Doom Slayer will drop the opponent to the floor facefirst before stomping on their head. This has some fairly decent damage and knockback, but is a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none throw.

B-throw: The Doom Slayer dashes behind the opponent, then thrust kicks them in the back, knocking them farther away. This has some good damage and great knockback, making this the go-to for throw kills.

U-throw: Sweeping his foot in front of himself, the Doom Slayer will trip the opponent up before bringing his fist down upon them, making them bounce off the floor with exceptional force to propel them upwards.
N-air: Swiping the Blade of Doom around himself, the Doom Slayer will attack in this way to deal damage to all sides of himself.

F-air: The Doom Slayer will dash forwards and land a meaty punch in front of himself.

B-air: The Doom Slayer will dash forwards and land a meaty punch in front of himself.

(PROTIP: F-air and B-air can be used twice in succession with themselves or each other, like F-air + F-air or B-air + F-air. Doing so, however, will leave you in a helpless state.)

D-air: The Doom Slayer will thrust his feet downwards, using the force of his Lateral Thrusters to blast opponents downwards in a meteor strike.

U-air: The Doom Slayer will wind up, then raise his knee upwards, striking opponents with enough force to knock them upwards.
Neutral Special: Slayer's Arsenal:
The Doom Slayer will take out a gun, then enter a state where he can shoot while moving, similarly to Banjo and Kazooie's Breegull Blaster. You can dodge or shield to cancel out of this state. You can fire your gun by tapping B, and tilt the Joystick to aim while firing. In this state, you can also hold A to open the Weapon Wheel, where you can swap between guns similarly to how you choose Monado Arts with Shulk. The guns the Doom Slayer can use are as follows:
  • Shotgun: A short-ranged burst that's more powerful the closer it is. This is the gun you are automatically equipped with at the start of every game.
  • Heavy Cannon: A heavy weapon that fires projectiles similar to Bayonetta's Bullet Climax. This fires 8 shots per second.
  • Chaingun: A rapid-fire weapon that fires weak shots at 15 shots per second and has the same hitbox properties as Bayonetta's Bullet Arts.
  • Plasma Gun: A rapid-fire energy weapon that shoots bolts of plasma at 12 bolts per second, and has the same properties as Fox's Blaster.
  • Ballista: A heavy precision weapon that has far reach that fires 1 shot per second and has the same hitbox properties as Byleth's fully-charged Failnaught, making it an amazing kill move. This can kick him back in the opposite direction he fires it, making it an unconventional means for recovery.
  • Rocket Launcher: An explosive weapon that fires 2 explosive projectiles per second. This deals high splash damage and has as much knockback as Snake's Nikita.
If Doom Slayer has performed a Glory Kill, the weapon he has equipped when it happened will access its Weapon Mod that gives the gun different properties:
  • Sticky Bomb: Exactly what you think it does.
  • Micro Missiles: The Heavy Cannon will fire up to six tiny rockets that rack up damage and has some very low knockback.
  • Mobile Turret: The Chaingun will split into four smaller barrels and automatically shoot for 8 seconds at quadruple the normal fire rate. After 8 seconds, the gun will overheat, leaving him unable to do anything for 3 seconds.
  • Microwave Beam: The Doom Slayer will lock onto an opponent within Grab distance, and start slowly incinerating him with a continuous stream of energy. When you deal 25% damage in a single go, the opponent will explode, damaging all nearby opponents and knocking the opponent back a good distance.
  • Destroyer Blade: The Ballista will charge for a bit, then fire a large blade of fire that travels a set distance before disappearing, piercing through all opponents in its path.
  • Lock-On Burst: The Rocket Launcher will take 4 seconds to lock onto an opponent that it is aimed at, then fire a burst of three rockets that hone in on the opponent's position at the moment it was fired.
Side Special: Blood Punch:
The Doom Slayer will dash forwards and perform a brutal haymaker to an opponent. This is a good kill move at 120% damage, and a great means to deal damage. When Glory Boosted, the Blood Punch will create an explosion that damages multiple opponents. When Doom Slayer hits an opponent with a Glory Boosted Blood Punch, he must perform another Glory Kill before he can use that kind of Blood Punch again.

Up Special: Meat Hook:
The Doom Slayer will take out his Super Shotgun and shoot its new Meat Hook in the direction of the joystick. As a tether recovery, it isn't as far-reaching as Joker's or Byleth's Up Special, but it can grab an opponent either on the ground or in the air. Upon grabbing an opponent, he can reel himself towards the opponent, like a slower Byleth Up Special. The opponent can mash out of Meat Hook. While reeling towards the opponent, he can do one of two things: press A to blast the opponent with the Super Shotgun at the cost of your momentum, or press B to release the opponent without losing momentum at the risk of being punished. When Glory Boosted, the Meat Hook can deal damage over time to grappled opponents during the whole time. After grappling an opponent once, he must perform another Glory Kill before he can burn opponents of Meat Hook again.

Down Special: Equipment Launcher:
The Doom Slayer will activate his shoulder-mounted cannon and fire one of three kinds of grenades: Frag Grenade, Siphon Grenade, or Ice Bomb. Frag Grenades are like Snake's Grenades. Siphon Grenades heal the Doom Slayer for a portion of the damage dealt. Ice Bombs freeze opponents caught in the blast. When Glory Boosted, the Equipment Launcher will instead use the Flame Belcher, which reaches out about 1/8 the range of Byleth's Failnaught, and all opponents caught will get damaged over time. After one use, he must perform another Glory Kill before he can use the Flame Belcher again.

FINAL SMASH: BFG-9000/UNMAYKR:
With the Smash Ball in his veins like Argent Energy, the Doom Slayer will take out the BFG-9000 and fire a single projectile in front of himself. The shot itself releases tendrils that stun and damage opponents over time, and it hits an opponent or the edge of the screen, the BFG shot will explode and inflict immense damage to all opponents. When Glory Boosted, he will instead break out the Unmaykr and fire a massive barrage of lasers that auto-target opponents and instantly KO opponents the moment they reach 100% or higher. This barrage lasts for 8 seconds before it is over.
In short, the Doom Slayer is a mobile powerhouse whose damage output and KO potential are unparalleled in the roster. Having combined the swift movements and brutal attacks of a rushdown character with the far range and smart projectile playstyle of a zoner character, the Slayer blurs the line between both archetypes, giving him one of the most versatile offensive gameplans of any character. However, he is very easy to kill if he's not moving, has a size comparable to the average heavyweight, and his greatest asset requires immense dedication to make use of.
You can imagine the Unmaykr instead being the Doom 64 version and the Ballista instead being the Gauss Cannon + Siege Mode if you want. Maybe even swap Blood Punch with the Chainsaw and the Meat Hook with something else entirely like the Rocket Jump like so many people on this thread have said.
 
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axel_

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I believe there should be at least two things that would adamantly be from Doom Eternal, like the Doomblade and the shoulder cannon. Take a look at the moveset I made.


You can imagine the Unmaykr instead being the Doom 64 version and the Ballista instead being the Gauss Cannon + Siege Mode if you want. Maybe even swap Blood Punch with the Chainsaw and the Meat Hook with something else entirely like the Rocket Jump like so many people on this thread have said.
Not bad, definitely did some new things that work together, but I think I understood what it is that I really don't like about most Doom Slayer movesets: making his normals primarily punches and kicks.
Doom's combat has always been revolved around the guns with melees only being used sparingly (even getting you killed more often than not) and I think that should be reflected in the gameplay.
Like Mega Man, his "jab" and Nair should be the Shotgun with a reload that can be cancelled.
 

PublicServant

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Not bad, definitely did some new things that work together, but I think I understood what it is that I really don't like about most Doom Slayer movesets: making his normals primarily punches and kicks.
Doom's combat has always been revolved around the guns with melees only being used sparingly (even getting you killed more often than not) and I think that should be reflected in the gameplay.
Like Mega Man, his "jab" and Nair should be the Shotgun with a reload that can be cancelled.
Thank goodness, I'm not the only one who sees this!!

For all the glory kills that people think could be made into melee attacks, they also forget that the Doom Slayer can only perform GKs against staggered enemies; his standard melee punch is piss-weak against even lowly Zombies (especially in Eternal) and you never once looked back at it once you got the chainsaw and literally every other weapon in classic Doom.

IMO, I could definitely a weapon wheel that changes what the Doom Slayer performs with his standard attacks, mixing in the standard fire alongside the effects of the different weapon mods:
  • Combat Shotgun (Sticky Bombs/Full Auto), Heavy Cannon (Precision Bolt, Micro Missiles), Plasma Rifle (Heat Blast, Microwave Beam), Chaingun (Mobile Turret, Shield Generator) and Ballista (Arbalest, Destroyer Blade) are prime Weapon Wheel candidates.
  • Smash attacks could primarily consist of the Super Shotgun.
  • His grab would most certainly be the SSG's Meathook, with it drawing the player in rather than the enemy. A midair grab would have him blast opponents away with the SSG, while all his traditional throws could include multiple variations based on Glory Kills, including those utilising the Doomblade and Crucible.
  • For Specials, there could be a Chainsaw-dash Side Special, a Rocket Jump Up-Special and the Equipment Cannon for Down-Special - quick tap for frag grenade, medium tap for Ice Bomb and hold down for Flame Belch.
  • Not even going to mention the Final Smash, since I do believe it is a unanimous, green-coloured, BFG-shaped decision.
 

KingDoop

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Thank goodness, I'm not the only one who sees this!!

For all the glory kills that people think could be made into melee attacks, they also forget that the Doom Slayer can only perform GKs against staggered enemies; his standard melee punch is piss-weak against even lowly Zombies (especially in Eternal) and you never once looked back at it once you got the chainsaw and literally every other weapon in classic Doom.

IMO, I could definitely a weapon wheel that changes what the Doom Slayer performs with his standard attacks, mixing in the standard fire alongside the effects of the different weapon mods:
  • Combat Shotgun (Sticky Bombs/Full Auto), Heavy Cannon (Precision Bolt, Micro Missiles), Plasma Rifle (Heat Blast, Microwave Beam), Chaingun (Mobile Turret, Shield Generator) and Ballista (Arbalest, Destroyer Blade) are prime Weapon Wheel candidates.
  • Smash attacks could primarily consist of the Super Shotgun.
  • His grab would most certainly be the SSG's Meathook, with it drawing the player in rather than the enemy. A midair grab would have him blast opponents away with the SSG, while all his traditional throws could include multiple variations based on Glory Kills, including those utilising the Doomblade and Crucible.
  • For Specials, there could be a Chainsaw-dash Side Special, a Rocket Jump Up-Special and the Equipment Cannon for Down-Special - quick tap for frag grenade, medium tap for Ice Bomb and hold down for Flame Belch.
  • Not even going to mention the Final Smash, since I do believe it is a unanimous, green-coloured, BFG-shaped decision.
Historically melee attacks are weak but in 2016/eternal they are his finishers, which is something I think should be reflected in smash. Honestly, I would absolutely hate it if doomguy became another zoner. Cause the way doom is played now is you shoot them to get close then break their face.

A good way to sum it up is...guns should be an approach option not a stay away from me option.

This is why I immensely support inkling style ammo system, but where ammo is recharged from melee attacks.
But as was said, doomguy without guns is very weak--only a couple of his moves would be physical, albeit powerful--so running out of ammo would put you at an incredible disadvantage. Basically forcing the player to stay aggressive
 
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there's something else iv'e been meaning to ask, in level 2 of chapter 2 there are these red fire torches that aren't lit up and none of the weapons i have can work, do i need to have something such as a flamethrower for them?
 

TerminatorLOL

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there's something else iv'e been meaning to ask, in level 2 of chapter 2 there are these red fire torches that aren't lit up and none of the weapons i have can work, do i need to have something such as a flamethrower for them?
There is no flamethrower

You only interact with the environment with the "use" button. In some pretty rare occasions you might need to shoot a switch, but you'll never light torches.
 

PublicServant

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Historically melee attacks are weak but in 2016/eternal they are his finishers, which is something I think should be reflected in smash. Honestly, I would absolutely hate it if doomguy became another zoner. Cause the way doom is played now is you shoot them to get close then break their face.

A good way to sum it up is...guns should be an approach option not a stay away from me option.

This is why I immensely support inkling style ammo system, but where ammo is recharged from melee attacks.
But as was said, doomguy without guns is very weak--only a couple of his moves would be physical, albeit powerful--so running out of ammo would put you at an incredible disadvantage. Basically forcing the player to stay aggressive
True, though the Doom Slayer wouldn't exactly be a Zoner in a traditional sense.

Much like on Doom Eternal, his health and armour disappear pretty quickly from enemy attacks, and he doesn't have much ammo on his person. From this, the idea would be to make him a kinda "Hit & Run" character in some aspects, where he'd need to get in close to the enemy and perform a specific attack/prompt in order to replenish those resources.

It's also worth mentioning how, for the most part, the Doom Slayer's weaponry is tuned primarily for close-range encounters, with exceptions like the Precision Bolt and Ballista only providing a marginal increase to the Slayer's effective combat range. Naturally, this hard cap on the Slayer's range is conducive to his combat loop, since the Slayer would want to keep himself close enough to his fighters/resource piñatas order to keep his Health, Armour (if implemented) and Ammo topped up through Glory Kills, Flame Belch and Chainsaw respectively.
 
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Naturally, this hard cap on the Slayer's range is conducive to his combat loop, since the Slayer would want to keep himself close enough to his fighters/resource piñatas order to keep his Health, Armour (if implemented) and Ammo topped up through Glory Kills, Flame Belch and Chainsaw respectively.
I've been thinking about that for a bit, and at one point considered having Flame Belch reduce the damage of the next attack he takes, so it would be a little bit like armor, but then I thought against it since players would probably spam Flame Belch a whole lot to the point where a fully-charged Flare Blade would deal 2% damage to him.
 

Wunderwaft

Smash Champion
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I just got Doom Eternal and played the first three missions. So far I'm loving the game and it's presentation, it expands upon what made 2016 great and goes even beyond. I'm surprisingly okay with the fact that this game has more story and lore than any previous Doom game, it's not as intrusive as I expected it to be. I like the customization of the game and how there's so much to upgrade, the game gives a proper feeling of leveling up and becoming stronger. The game definitely delivered on my expectations and it's a solid GOTY nominee in my eyes.

I'll continue playing the game tomorrow but I'll probably put it on hold when Half-Life Alyx drops, until then it's rip and tear time for me.
 
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Doom 64 was obscure because besides releasing around the time of actual 3D FPS's (Which i think also led to Blood flopping), the game was at times advertised as another port and the fact that it took years for an official modern port is why most played the game with unofficial ports.
It felt like people intentionally ignored the game.
Something i keep repeating about Doomguy's representation is going on a "MetaDoom-esque" way of combining elements from different games.
So Doomguy's armor can be a fusion of different armor sets, the stage can be a fusion of classic Knee Deep In The Dead assets and modern UAC or classic Inferno/Hell and whatever the new games introduce from modern Hell.
Hell on Earth definitely looks better in Eternal than in Doom 2, which means the new games do things that the original id would have love to have seen realized.
But another thing about the new games is that they go a bit too much in their own path to feel more like a specific version of Doom, than an "upgrade" or return to the roots most people imagined in their heads before the games were announced (Some also imagined an HD remake with elements from Brutal and Complex Doom and remastered soundtrack).
It's a good thing that these new games have their own ways of doing things (One can see this as the "focus on action" that contrasts Doom 3's focus on horror), but there's also times where a lot of things feel so "alien" or as if they don't feel like Doom (Which doesn't mean a bad thing, at times at least).
There's also things i feel like were done better in the original games or just aren't carried in the new ones.
If i were to use a metaphor for a comparison of old and new Doom, it could be the logos: The classic logo has unique letters with an aesthetic that feels like a representation of "UAC vs Hell" and the other has a minimalist take without those details, showcasing a somewhat "trendy" direction and how the games don't carry some elements from the original.

Old Doom isn't perfect but when one tries to fix its issues and "upgrade" it, it usually means fixing some old technical quirks and bits and maybe add vertical mouselook, but most core elements that matter would still be there and something that id themselves would like to put in Doom (This type of arguement can tie into how Quake is partially a Doom follow up or something), which means most source ports.
As for "modernizing" Doom or putting it into HD, you have things like Smooth Doom or Beautiful Doom that add new effects that fit the setting and "smooth" the animations, remastered music and sounds, maybe whatever "HD" models don't look disgusting and those maps that keep the same aesthetic but are more advanced and almost Build-like.
And "expanding" Doom would be whenever a gameplay mod adds new enemies, weapons, mechanics and items but still makes them part of the art style/setting/gameplay or when a WAD has a new theme and maps, but still feels like it's part of the universe.
Considering this series existed for the sake of innovation and its source code was released at the same year as Doom 64 (The last classic Doom), Doom is that kind of series that shows how a fanbase almost feels like it's part of the franchise.
Which makes sense when id does fanservice, some collaborations with fans and some even wonder if they take ideas from mods.
If Doom as a series was larger (Even at the cost of a timeline where Doom modding, Quake, Heretic and later Doom's didn't exist), a lot of things that would happen in Doom could have been what we see in fanmade works.
Doom's new "lore" is anothing thing because it's focused on the new games with have a different direction, as opposed to focus on like the military instructor in the first game's booklet that told Doomguy to shoot innocent people.

The new games seem take inspiration from Doom's pop culture status and some memes around it, hence the phrase "rip and tear", originating from the comic book being used a lot, the glory kills and the focus on Doomguy's strenght.
One aspect of how the new games changed Doom's identity is the focus on melee, for a series about mostly shooting that pioneered a genre around it.
Sometimes, i wonder if most people can imagine how others and the fans view Doom before the reboot (This is also seen in moveset discussions).
Eternal looks fantastic as a game but i wonder if anyone would mind if id tries another direction for the sake of it or revisiting a previous one, like another expasion for Doom 3 that tries to improve that formula.
I think an actual "Classic Doom in HD" or something may never happen due to what worked in the original engine and the fact that a lot of 2016/Eternal's gameplay decisions might as well be because they tried to replice something from old Doom but realized they couldn't do it and found ways to make it work differently.
I guess time will tell.

Another thing is that besides the Praetor Suit going into "Halo territory", it has a lot and i do mean a lot of details, while older designs are more simplistic, probably because of how 2016's engine had megatextures and Eternal still focuses on graphical detail, while the first games use sprites in a somewhat 3D level geometry.
I wonder if a classic Doomguy in Smash would look different from the one in QC, considering the differences in sprites like the brown gloves.
 
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I finished Doom 64 today.

What an experience. The new map hazards freshened things up, the levels themselves were diverse and felt alive, and while overall familiar it really clicked well with me. Also, Unmaker best gun. No doubt. Made Big Bad Mama at the end a total joke.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Ya know as much as the meathook was talked about, haven’t really used it that much yet, but I see the value of it from a Smash moveset perspective. Imagine automatically doing a short range super shotgun blast as part of his recovery animation.

The flame belch would perhaps be more interesting though, but not sure what move of his it should be. Would also opt him having ice grenade over the standard frag one for uniqueness sake, even though I use the latter more in-game. And then of course there’s the crucible blade... Even if not much from the latest game is drawn from in the event that Doomguy gets added to Smash, Eternal imo has the most interesting moveset material to work with by far.
 
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Im absolutely loving Eternal so far. Beat level 6 today (I'm going for 100% secrets and hopefully achievements as well but extra life mode seems to be really tough), and my only nitpick is I kinda miss rune trials as opposed to just picking a rune in Eternal, but there is still plenty of content and it is more than made up for. I love the slayer gates as well, especially the one that I just did that has
2 titans, a baron and a doom hunter that shows up halfway through
 

TerminatorLOL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
205
So I'm going to have another copy of Eternal shipped to me, told me to save the old package for UPS to pick up later. But this did give me time to play through Doom 64

I absolutely love the atmosphere of the games levels. The shotguns are very satisfying to shoot. Though I miss the pump/reload animations, losing those animations also makes switching to different guns annoying, since you still have to wait for Doomguy to phantom reload anyway.
Berserk punches are easier for me to hit here and I love the double chainsaw. The Unmaker is so OP that it makes the Plasma rifle and BFG completely irrelevant and boss fights a total joke.

Enemy variety doesn't feel to good in this game though. At least four of the enemies are just recolors of other ones, It made me think the enemy roster was smaller then it really is. I feel like I would have just cut the Nightmare Imps and Hell Knights from the game just to ease that feeling

I also miss how switching weapons worked in Doom 1&2. The little portraits on the top when cycling and being able to use the d-pad for quick switch.

Still I had fun.
 

EarlTamm

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You know, now that Doom Eternal is out, is there any locations in the game that you guys think would make for a good stage? The game does have quite a bit of variety to its locals.
 
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A new trailer concept, for your viewing pleasure!

*Cross Flair Intro*

(A black background is shown as a red mark is slowly being formed onscreen. A voice is heard throughout.)

Guttural Voice: Your unbound fury is known beyond the stars, your eternal battle has ravaged their numbers...but now, a new battle awaits...one that shall test your very limits! Rip and Tear...until it is done!

(By the time the mark is complete, it fades out before cutting to a fire-lit hallway of blackened metal, multiple silhouetted puppet fighters defeated and sprawled across the floor. A Mega Man lies face-first on the ground, his helmet with a hole in its side. A Richter lies against the wall, the shattered chain links of the Vampire Killer scattered across the floor. An Olimar lies face-upwards, his helmet broken wide open. A Mario sprawled sideways with his hat in tatters. Just then, a lone figure walks past them. As this happens, a chant is heard.)

Kar En Tuk...

(As the figure continues walking past felled Puppets, a few more, a Ridley, a Snake, and a Ganondorf, charge towards him. Effortlessly, the figure sucker-punches Ridley before grabbing his tail and skewering it through his mouth, a visceral filter blurring out this violent action. He then blasts the Ganondorf with a massive double-barreled cannon before stabbing him in the jewel on his forehead with a wrist-mounted blade, the same filter kicking in. He finally grabs the Snake by the neck before choke-slamming him into the ground, with the filter kicking in one more time.)

Kar En Tuk!

(The figure then steps onto a platform where he is raised into a massive fiery arena, lit up by falls of molten lava. Before him are massive hordes of Puppet fighters, Galeem and Dharkon alike, all eager to battle him for the glory of their respective masters. The figure begins to slowly walk forwards, causing the Puppets to tense up.)

Kar! En! Tuk!

(Fire erupts from the edges of the arena, and the camera shows a front-facing view showing that the figure is clad head-to-toe with green armor, and behind the visor was a look of perpetual rage. His anger-filled pace amplifies his already menacing approach with the fire behind. From the way he was brandishing his weapons, he looked ready to Rip and Tear!)

KAR! EN! TUK!

THE DOOM SLAYER Hurts ‘Em Plenty!

(The Doom Slayer then charges towards the Puppet army, fighting them for a bit before the camera freezes and replicates the famous box art from the classic Doom. The trailer then cuts to the gameplay of the Doom Slayer, showing off his moveset. Doom Slayer shows a few of his guns before the trailer cuts to Doom Slayer crouching next to a tiny Daisy with the Bunny Hood in Fourside. Ganondorf comes in and KO’s Daisy, prompting the Doom Slayer to attack Ganondorf. It then shows his unique mechanic: Glory Kills, as shown by a compilation of Glory Kills performed on a few select fighters. The trailer shows the Doom Slayer’s Final Smash, the footage glitching between his BFG 9000 and the Unmaykr as the music reaches the climax.)


Super Smash Bros. Ultimate X DOOM Eternal

@ 2018 Nintendo

Original Game: © Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc.

Characters: © Nintendo / Hal Laboratory, Inc. / Pokémon. / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc. / SHIGESATO ITOI / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / Konami Digital Entertainment / SEGA / CAPCOM CO., LTD. / BANDAI NAMCO Entertainment Inc. / MONOLITHSOFT / CAPCOM USA, INC. / SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. / ATLUS / Microsoft / SNK CORPORATION. / id Software LLC.
 

Powerman293

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
341
So, now that Eternal's out, I guess I should ask something I've been reflecting on: How much of Eternal should be present in Doom Slayer's moveset in Smash?

Personally, I think it should be kept to a minimum, with maybe one Normal move being related to it. For all of Eternal's perfections I think a moveset can be structured just fine with only the classic games & 2016 as a basis. Using Eternal entirely would be like Terry having a KOF XIV meter just because it's new.

Maybe I'm just too much of a Doom boomer that was upset at how bad that Source Gaming moveset was.
I think they should have the 2016 design as default and the meathook as a Zair and MAYBE the back cannon for 1 move as things present from Eternal.
 
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