At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[Leaf_It]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_future_nintendo_exclusives_are_possible

The dream is real.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Just a thought, but it'd be neat if his HUD portrait would follow the action and react like in the original DOOM HUD. It'd be a little wierd but a nice nod to the source material.

 

[Door Key Pig]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_future_nintendo_exclusives_are_possible

The dream is real.

Honestly, who else could be a iconic or at least Nintendo-associated Bethesda character to join the fight than Doomguy? Uh that one Elder Scrolls thing that got an Amiibo?

 

[DerErlenkonig]

Maaaaybe Vaultboy? It'd be a weird choice but not entirely unbelievable.

 

[GolisoPower]

Maaaaybe Vaultboy? It'd be a weird choice but not entirely unbelievable.

Would Fallout Shelter count as grounds for inclusion? I mean, it IS on the Switch and all...

 

[Door Key Pig]

I'm guessing Doomguy might be the most classic and iconic, as well as retro video game icon to put in the roster. Maybe a general audience would easily be able to recognise "the Doom guy" instead of whoever the main players are in Skyrim and Fallout.

 

[jokermelee]

I'd love both, but Doomguy definitely is the more deserving.

That "Oh yeah." might just mean Doomguy in smash is more likely than we may think. fuuuudge, who knows, if not base roster this def boosts his chances as DLC.

yeah just what i'm thinking. If he's not in the base roster he's now more than likely going to be DLC thanks to these talks between Nintendo and Bethesda, which is what i'm really hoping on!

 

[NukeA6]

If the Doom Guy ever does become playable or even an Assist trophy, he might end up playing like a Metal Slug character especially since real guns aren't allowed. He already has it all plus the BFG 9000 (don't think Metal Slug had any equivalent of that). And if he gets a stage, it needs those explosive barrels or it's a wasted opportunity.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

If the Doom Guy ever does become playable or even an Assist trophy, he might end up playing like a Metal Slug character especially since real guns aren't allowed. He already has it all plus the BFG 9000 (don't think Metal Slug had any equivalent of that). And if he gets a stage, it needs those explosive barrels or it's a wasted opportunity.

I love me some Metal Slug, so I have no complaints there.

 

[DerErlenkonig]

If the Doom Guy ever does become playable or even an Assist trophy, he might end up playing like a Metal Slug character especially since real guns aren't allowed. He already has it all plus the BFG 9000 (don't think Metal Slug had any equivalent of that). And if he gets a stage, it needs those explosive barrels or it's a wasted opportunity.

I imagine they'd just focus on his energy weapons (pistol, plasma rifle, BFG, etc) and punches, which would totally work. The lack of the shotgun would suck but it's worth keeping in mind that Bayonetta uses guns (albeit goofy unrealistic guns).

 

[NukeA6]

I imagine they'd just focus on his energy weapons (pistol, plasma rifle, BFG, etc) and punches, which would totally work. The lack of the shotgun would suck but it's worth keeping in mind that Bayonetta uses guns (albeit goofy unrealistic guns).

He doesn't have to lack the shotgun if it's remodeled like the ones in Doom 64. And it would most likely function like the one in Metal Slug or the one that cyborg werewolf uses in Contra: Hard Corps.

Don't understand why Doom 4 went with a more modern day boomstick when the game takes place farther into the future. You'd think it would be more like something from Halo. Then again, gotta keep the Evil Dead references alive.

 

[Geassguy]

I think the grappling bayonet puts his new super shotgun from Eternal in the same "not realistic but still technically bullets" category as Bayonetta's pistols, especially if they go the same direction with the projectile effects that it puts out.

Some of his physical attacks could involve the new armblade too, like that backhand slash that bisects the possessed in the gameplay (in smash it would just be a strong basic attack with decent knock back).

 

[Pyrofruit]

I always imagined that if he was in smash his forward smash could be the super shotgun but it fires a short range explosion effect(kinda like Samus's fsmash) instead of a straight-up gunshot, implying the shotgun pellets but not actually showing them. Also, one idea I had to pay homage to glory kills without actually having him rip people in half is to take certain animations from his glory kills. For example, you could take punches and kicks that he performs during different glory kills and implement them into his normals. Also you could take the less rip and tear esque glory kills and make them into throw animations. I mean some throws in smash kinda look like glory kills by the way they're performed.

 

[Serialkillerwhale]

I mean, if you think about it, Duck Hunt is technically using a realistic shotgun.

 

[Geassguy]

I just want to reiterate this...

Bethesda has spoken with Nintendo about Smash.

This is monumental.

Did the talks go anywhere?
We can't say for sure, but I wonder if this little bit of info would have even been dropped if the talks went nowhere.

Is it really bias to think that of all the IP's Bethesda has, Doom is the most likely to have been considered?
Lets look at the facts we all know:
-Doom is hugely important to video games in general, and is definitely well known with a lot of people who would be playing Smash.
-Doom has a history on Nintendo systems, 3 ports (SNES, GBA, Switch) and 1 exclusive (N64)
Compare this to anything else Bethesda has: Dovakiin (1 port on Switch), Vault Boy (1 port on Switch) and.... ?

This recent news is a BIG step if you ask me, and I for one am very hopeful for the future.

 

[NukeA6]

I just want to reiterate this...

Bethesda has spoken with Nintendo about Smash.

This is monumental.

I guess it's not a pipe dream anymore.

 

[Geassguy]

I guess it's not a pipe dream anymore.

Doesn't feel like one to me anymore.
What's also good about this news is it gets the idea in a lot more peoples heads.

 

[jokermelee]

I just want to reiterate this...

Bethesda has spoken with Nintendo about Smash.

This is monumental.

Did the talks go anywhere?
We can't say for sure, but I wonder if this little bit of info would have even been dropped if the talks went nowhere.

Is it really bias to think that of all the IP's Bethesda has, Doom is the most likely to have been considered?
Lets look at the facts we all know:
-Doom is hugely important to video games in general, and is definitely well known with a lot of people who would be playing Smash.
-Doom has a history on Nintendo systems, 3 ports (SNES, GBA, Switch) and 1 exclusive (N64)
Compare this to anything else Bethesda has: Dovakiin (1 port on Switch), Vault Boy (1 port on Switch) and.... ?

This recent news is a BIG step if you ask me, and I for one am very hopeful for the future.

also don't forget that Sakurai knows about John Carmack and has even called him the "father of FPSs" most likely for Wolfenstein and Doom

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/21/sakuraixnomuraparttwo/

this gives Doomguy even more of a chance over the other Bethesda characters, seeing as Sakurai himself seems to have at least possibly played the Wolfenstein/Doom games

 

[Geassguy]

also don't forget that Sakurai knows about John Carmack and has even called him the "father of FPSs" most likely for Wolfenstein and Doom

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/21/sakuraixnomuraparttwo/

this gives Doomguy even more of a chance over the other Bethesda characters, seeing as Sakurai himself seems to have at least possibly played the Wolfenstein/Doom games

Oh snap, that's awesome! Did not know about this, but hell yes, proof that he is aware of Id's impact on gaming is definitely a good thing.

 

[Splendid_Days]

If the Doom Guy ever does become playable or even an Assist trophy, he might end up playing like a Metal Slug character especially since real guns aren't allowed. He already has it all plus the BFG 9000 (don't think Metal Slug had any equivalent of that). And if he gets a stage, it needs those explosive barrels or it's a wasted opportunity.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Bayonetta use conventional guns? Sure they're partially magical with the infinite bullets but for all I know they still fire off lead ammunition.

http://bayonetta.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bayo_2_-_Bullet_Cartridges.png

 

[Geassguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Bayonetta use conventional guns? Sure they're partially magical with the infinite bullets but for all I know they still fire off lead ammunition.

This is true. As long as the weapon is fantastical enough it seems even bullets fly. I'd say the new grappling SSG is fantastical enough to work.

 

[NukeA6]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Bayonetta use conventional guns? Sure they're partially magical with the infinite bullets but for all I know they still fire off lead ammunition.

http://bayonetta.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bayo_2_-_Bullet_Cartridges.png

Still looks like something you'd see on an action figure. That's fine. Even Geno fires bullets that also leaves cartridge-casings in Super Mario RPG (all uncensored).

 

[DerErlenkonig]

This is true. As long as the weapon is fantastical enough it seems even bullets fly. I'd say the new grappling SSG is fantastical enough to work.

Speaking as someone who desperately wants Doomguy in, I don't see the SSG making it, even it's Eternal version.

At the end of the day, it's mostly just a standard realistic shotgun 95% of the time in the eyes of the ESBR. Bayo's guns are silly limb-guns 100% of the time, even with realistic bullets.

I just don't see it as likely, unfortunately.

 

[Splendid_Days]

Well either way count me in on supporting his inclusion!

Still looks like something you'd see on an action figure. That's fine. Even Geno fires bullets that also leaves cartridge-casings in Super Mario RPG (all uncensored).

Ah true, and the guns themselves have some really zany designs to separate them from more realistic firearms. I still find it so silly that ESRB will let swords, maces, axes, laser/plasma weapons, and explosives fly as long as there's no blood(or at least not colored red) but when it comes realistic guns, that's a big no no.

Speaking as someone who desperately wants Doomguy in, I don't see the SSG making it, even it's Eternal version.

At the end of the day, it's mostly just a standard realistic shotgun 95% of the time in the eyes of the ESBR. Bayo's guns are silly limb-guns 100% of the time, even with realistic bullets.

I just don't see it as likely, unfortunately.

I still hope the team could some how find a way to get a shotgun in his arsenal. I'd play him regardless but it'd feel so strange playing as the Doomguy without a shotgun.

 

[Geassguy]

Speaking as someone who desperately wants Doomguy in, I don't see the SSG making it, even it's Eternal version.

At the end of the day, it's mostly just a standard realistic shotgun 95% of the time in the eyes of the ESBR. Bayo's guns are silly limb-guns 100% of the time, even with realistic bullets.

I just don't see it as likely, unfortunately.

I'm still not sold on the idea that having two guns on her feet suddenly makes all of them "silly" or unrealistic enough to work, and yet a ridiculous magical grappling hook doesn't? Seriously, think about it, where is the long-@$$ chain it has even stored when its not in use?

The Doom Eternal SSG on aesthetics alone looks pretty far from any double barreled shotgun that actually exists in real life. I still think it's as far from a real shotgun as Bayonetta's pistols are from a real pistol, agree to disagree. It's all subjective speculation right now anyways.

Honestly none of us actually even know whatsoever what the exact rules are now, but I really don't think the same rules that dictated Snake's move set are still in play. No way to really know unless they talk about it or release another character that pushes the "no gun" rule even further past the breaking point than Bayo already has.

Edit: Basically, what it comes down to is, Bethesda talked to Nintendo, probably Sakurai himself, about Smash for something. That something is likely to be Doom. Sakurai considers John Carmack a "big name" and "the father of FPS's." Therefore, we can infer that he at least considers Doom to be an important video game series. So if Sakurai decides he does want to put Doomguy in, and he just might, he's interested in putting in deserving video game icons wherever he can, then he'll figure out a way to make it work. I personally think Eternal gives him more to work with than ever.

 

[jokermelee]

Speaking as someone who desperately wants Doomguy in, I don't see the SSG making it, even it's Eternal version.

At the end of the day, it's mostly just a standard realistic shotgun 95% of the time in the eyes of the ESBR. Bayo's guns are silly limb-guns 100% of the time, even with realistic bullets.

I just don't see it as likely, unfortunately.

I can see the Eternal SSG happening at the very least, since it looks too unrealistic to be considered serious

Snake has actual real life explosive weapons in his moveset, and i'm surprised they're even in considering they don't reference the real life weapon names.
Compared to Snake, who uses real weaponry, Doom Guy(or Slayer) uses a lot of scifi weapons, so he should be fine with a futuristic looking shotgun with a grappling hook on it.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Never played any of the Doom games and probably never will. Have no personal attachment whatsoever to Doomguy/Doom Slayer. Know very little about what potential weapons he's got that can be used for Smash.

Yet for some reason I can't explain, the idea of him in Smash is growing on me.

BFG 9000, Plasma Gun, Rocket Launchers, Chainsaw

 

[DerErlenkonig]

I can see the Eternal SSG happening at the very least, since it looks too unrealistic to be considered serious

Snake has actual real life explosive weapons in his moveset, and i'm surprised they're even in considering they don't reference the real life weapon names.
Compared to Snake, who uses real weaponry, Doom Guy(or Slayer) uses a lot of scifi weapons, so he should be fine with a futuristic looking shotgun with a grappling hook on it.

Hey, I want nothing more than to be wrong. I just think the inherent visceral nature of a shotgun, the *THUD* of it, is just more violent than the gentle tickling of Bayonetta's little pistols.

I would be thrilled to see the SSG though, especially Eternal's Chainhook. Could make for an awesome grab/ Side-B.

 

[chemo]

IMO compared to Doomguy's other "realistic" weapons I think that the SSG has a good chance of being retained.

The thing is, double-barreled shotguns have been a staple of cartoons for decades. They don't have the stigma that other firearms have.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Elmer Fudd has carried a shotgun since the 1930s, and I don't think many parents are demanding Looney Toons reruns get taken off the air. Logically, a sci fi shotgun shouldn't be treated any worse than the sci fi pistols that use, but maybe CERO (japanese rating board) has something against it. The satanic imagery would probably be the biggest concern, if any.

 

[Geassguy]

The satanic imagery would probably be the biggest concern, if any.

Yeah it would be, but if you ask me they can leave that stuff out with the gore, it's not absolutely integral to representing Doom as a series properly. Doom just uses a pentagram here and there for aesthetic, it's not like it's the Doomslayer's super hero logo and its front and center on his armor or anything.

As far as a potential stage goes, I'd love full-on Hell to be a Smash stage, and it would actually be fairly easy to do a E10 Hell if they focus on say Kadingir Sanctum. With all the rocky platforms and outcroppings, it'd be perfect for a Stage. Not to mention its a memorable Hell locale that ISN'T totally drenched in blood. They don't even need to call it "Hell", "Kadingir Sanctum" would be just peachy.
If not hell, then a UAC facility/Mars surface Stage is even easier to do E10, and would still be an iconic Doom setting.

If they really wanted to go all out, a stage that starts as a UAC base exterior on Mars that then transitions to Kadingir Sanctum and back over time via argent accumulator would be the best option.

 

[NukeA6]

IMO compared to Doomguy's other "realistic" weapons I think that the SSG has a good chance of being retained.

The thing is, double-barreled shotguns have been a staple of cartoons for decades. They don't have the stigma that other firearms have.

I can already imagine Sakurai giving the shotgun an Elmer Fudd-esque misfire where the gun deflates like a balloon.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

So I've been really interested in the idea that if Doom Slayer really did make it into Smash, his arch-rival would be Bayonetta, and why that would be badass.

Bayonetta's whole shtick is her consulting with demons and using the power of the darkness to save humanity from a corrupted light.

Doom Slayer however, believes (with damn good reason) that humanity can have only one of three associations with demons. Either as their victims, their willing slaves, or their easily manipulated idiots. The Doom Slayer is explicitly stated in-game to be incorruptible, which only means that he will not back down and can not be negotiated with no matter the circumstances, even if Bayonetta can't be manipulated by demons the same way people can be in his home dimension.

When he sees Bayonetta for the first time, he would be filled with his trademark unholy rage at the sight of yet another (what he would consider) filthy demon worshiper, no better than Olivia Pierce no matter what paltry justifications she has or how much she says that she has full control over her dealings. He would stop at nothing to destroy her and (in his mind) ensure that she can not turn the Smash realm into a second Argent D'Nur.

The ultimate angel killer vs the ultimate demon slayer, a showdown for the ages. The more I think about Doom Guy in Smash the more I can't stop thinking about how their interactions would go down.

 

[Serialkillerwhale]

Doom Slayer however, believes (with damn good reason) that humanity can have only one of three associations with demons. Either as their victims, their willing slaves, or their easily manipulated idiots. The Doom Slayer is explicitly stated in-game to be incorruptible, which only means that he will not back down and can not be negotiated with no matter the circumstances, even if Bayonetta can't be manipulated by demons the same way people can be in his home dimension.

*Stares pointedly at his runes and sword*

But yeah. As far is Doomy's concerned, there's only two course of action. Ripping them a new one, or Tearing them a new one.

As for his shotgun, if you portray it spraying blood everywhere and ripping people to shreds, obviously he's going to be too mature, but just going to mention Elmer Fudd, something like this.

A blast of smoke and fire coming out the barrel, visibly fading off as it expands, not only makes the hitbox clearer, but, given the right design, can definitely work.

And unlike Snake's biggest problem, where he has issues knocking people around with a fighting style based on grappling, submission holds, joint locks, and usage of both knives and precision firearms, Doomguy's firearms are heavy, beastly weapons meant to deal extreme trauma via application of lead and explosives which can very believably send people flying.

On another note: Despite being a projectile character, I can't see Doomslayer being a defensive or keep-away character. It's just not in his nature. Perhaps that'd be reinforced by letting him move towards people he's shooting, but not away from them. His attacks would move him forwards, improving his combo and rushdown capabilities, but reducing his ability to poke or harry opponents without commiting fully. Guns are used to rack up more damage and get parting shots or combo finishers. Sweetspot damage when his shotgun or minigun hits at short range, emphasizing this need for aggression further. Ammo limits his keepaway game, but allows the power budget for his weapons to be higher when he's constantly on the move, rushing down opponents to gather ammo pickups that tend to spawn closer to them.

 

[Geassguy]

Ammo limits his keepaway game, but allows the power budget for his weapons to be higher when he's constantly on the move, rushing down opponents to gather ammo pickups that tend to spawn closer to them.

Ooooo, bringing in the ammo and health pickups that drop from enemies could be a cool gimmick for him. The health drops would be occasional and minor, like 1 to 3 little ones that take off 1% a piece, you'd have to avoid a lot of hits and keep collecting them for them to really make a difference. They could also make the ammo pickups consistently drop from chainsaw attacks, but only if you can connect with it long enough, a quick slash or touch of the chainsaw wouldn't just immediately sprout ammo drops.

 

[DerErlenkonig]

I won't lie, this all makes me wanna play DOOM 2016 again.

 

[NukeA6]

I keep picturing Doom Guy's stage being Command Control for some reason.

It'll probably be Hangar or something from Doom 2016 but somehow I keep thinking the fourth level of Knee Deep in the Dead is perfect.

 

[Geassguy]

I keep picturing Doom Guy's stage to being Command Control for some reason.

It'll probably be Hangar or something from Doom 2016 but somehow I keep thinking the fourth level of Knee Deep in the Dead is perfect.

Yeah a stage from classic Doom would be really fun and cool too, having acid pools and barrels to avoid would be awesome. The older games are definitely Doom at it's most colorful, they may be the best fit when it comes to a stage.

I picture Doomguy himself would have the Praetor suit from Eternal as his default look, with the classic look (with classic equivalents of the new Eternal features) as his alt, but the stage being something from classic would be nice. New Doom and old Doom both included in the representation might just be best.

 

[jokermelee]

And unlike Snake's biggest problem, where he has issues knocking people around with a fighting style based on grappling, submission holds, joint locks, and usage of both knives and precision firearms, Doomguy's firearms are heavy, beastly weapons meant to deal extreme trauma via application of lead and explosives which can very believably send people flying.

On another note: Despite being a projectile character, I can't see Doomslayer being a defensive or keep-away character. It's just not in his nature. Perhaps that'd be reinforced by letting him move towards people he's shooting, but not away from them. His attacks would move him forwards, improving his combo and rushdown capabilities, but reducing his ability to poke or harry opponents without commiting fully. Guns are used to rack up more damage and get parting shots or combo finishers. Sweetspot damage when his shotgun or minigun hits at short range, emphasizing this need for aggression further. Ammo limits his keepaway game, but allows the power budget for his weapons to be higher when he's constantly on the move, rushing down opponents to gather ammo pickups that tend to spawn closer to them.

yeah i like alot of your points here, him being a rushdown character would be pretty interesting for smash. I thought of the idea that his firearm attacks did less damage than his physical attacks, so his shotgun/rocket blasts would do less damage than when he would physically strike an opponent. If his punches and kicks did big damage but was slower than his firearm moves, you would need to know when to use either in the given situation, whether that be up close or farther away.
I also thought of the idea of his Down B being a main weapon switch, that allows him to switch between 3 weapons on the go (plasma gun or pistol, shotgun, and rocket launcher) and he can use them with his neutral B much like Mega Man.

 

[Hydra of Chaos]

Even tho I prefer Master Chief and Doomguy would kind of get into his way, I would still love him!
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