Assembly of Unfamiliar Information: Give Jeepy Something to Test!

[Pentaoku]

What do you guys think Lucarios best mindgame is? Ones that i really like are the aura sphere edgeguard (charging an aura sphere right above the ledge so that when they jump up they get trapped in it) and charging my aura sphere almost all the way, so that its not obvious that i have a nice big aura sphere ready to own them.

What do you guys like?

Forward Smash (Whiff) -> Aura Sphere

 

[Milln]

That's the super awesome mindgame of the year Pentaoku. It never fails.

 

[Greenpoe]

Spamming aura sphere against characters that can use it against you is my favorite mindgame...especially against Ness and Lucas. They want to absorb it, but I spam it when I know it won't hit, when they do not have time to down B, or when it will hit. It can frustrate them. Then they try and predict it, so I can punish their down B. With Fox/Falco/Wolf, I like to SH aura sphere a few times, then they expect another SH aura sphere, so they hit down B and I take advantage. Against G&W it's tougher, becase the bucket is so deadly, but I still do it vs. G&W.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

Something I did a lot it Melee with Marth, and do a lot with Lucario, is empty shorthops. I find that they really mess with your opponents head.

always a fun thing to do with jigglypuff too

What do you guys think Lucarios best mindgame is? Ones that i really like are the aura sphere edgeguard (charging an aura sphere right above the ledge so that when they jump up they get trapped in it) and charging my aura sphere almost all the way, so that its not obvious that i have a nice big aura sphere ready to own them.

What do you guys like?

i enjoy the occasional extremespeed that doesn't hit the ledge and just goes right through them, you hit the ground and roll away. First couple times against my friends they shielded thinking with would hurt them, of course if you're playing somebody that wont fall for that it's still useful if you have always been grabbing the ledge. They dont even notice what happened until you're already past them.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Weird Pivot Slide

I haven't been able to recreate this. Usually, when Lucario does a Pivot to Jab A, he stops in his tracks. If you can recreate this, please tell me, or if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzytxC75bA

If we could learn how to do this, it could be useful.

 

[PSYCHE]

Weird Pivot Slide

I haven't been able to recreate this. Usually, when Lucario does a Pivot to Jab A, he stops in his tracks. If you can recreate this, please tell me, or if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzytxC75bA

If we could learn how to do this, it could be useful.

Here's what I PM'd:

Hmm, that is weird. Kinda looks like a waveland... =O. It might just be me, but I don't think it has to do with the landing n-air. I think, if anything, it has to do with you pivoting right after landing. I honestly have no idea though.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Since "Wierd Pivot Slide" discussion is here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170932, I would like to discuss one of Lucario's move: his d-tilt.

It's got great range, and overall Lucario's fastest tilt, but does anyone actually ever use it? If so, under what circumstances? I'm very interested to know, because I personally think it is a great move, but I rarely see it used.

 

[Nodrak]

Are you kidding me? I love d-tilt! It's the perfect set up for combos.

Use dthrow on someone at low %'s and they're good for a combo, use dthrow at a high % and they get thrown too far away to do anything. This is where dtilt comes in, it sends them up at the same angle but not as far, perfect for fair/nair or jump-canceld-up-smash

 

[phi1ny3]

Are you kidding me? I love d-tilt! It's the perfect set up for combos.

Use dthrow on someone at low %'s and they're good for a combo, use dthrow at a high % and they get thrown too far away to do anything. This is where dtilt comes in, it sends them up at the same angle but not as far, perfect for fair/nair or jump-canceld-up-smash

He's on to something, maybe a...
C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
jk

 

[betterthanbonds9]

i tend to use dtilt as a follow up to a fastfall nair (it's convinient too, just hold down) at low %s

if i use it at higher %s its edgeguarding a character with multiple jumps (like pit or DDD) or merely as a faster dsmash (as in, it hits low) which leads to combos.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I find that d-tilt leads very well into a force palm chaingrab, especially at low percents.

Also, when you are on a platform, d-tilt will hit below it, which I find extremely useful.

 

[J4pu]

snake's grenades were left out of the force palm projectile list

 

[Nodrak]

Go ahead, the whole point is to help people out =P

I also did Kirby's hats


Kirby Hats

Will Stop:
MarioKirby's fireball
LuigiKirby's fireball
BowserKirby's fire (all the fire it touches at least, kirby can still hold down B to keep producing fire)
ToonLinkKirby's arrow
SamusKirby's small energy ball
IceClimberKirby's ice (but like regular ice climbers, it'll belong to kirby)
LucarioKirby's baby aura sphere
LucarioKirby's fully charged aura sphere
PikaKirby's jolt
GameandWatchKirby's food (stops them from moving but they take a second to dissapear)


Wont stop:
DiddyKirby's peanut
ShiekKirby's needle
SamusKirby's large energy ball
PitKirby's arrow
ROBKirby's laser
OlimarKirby's pikmin (it wont even slow them down, any colour)
FoxKirby's laser
FalcoKirby's laser
WolfKirby's laser
JigglyKirby's rollout (charged or uncharged)
SquirtleKirby's watergun (only blocks one part of the entire spray)
CharizardKirby's Fire (same as squirtle)
SnakeKirby's grenade

Also i missed, it wont stop regular snake's grenade

From waaay back on page 3. Yeah, it won't stop grenades =S

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Ooo, I didn't even see that. I'll add it in.

 

[Nodrak]

Not that most of us will ever see Kirby hats other then LucarioHat Kirby, maybe the odd one will pop up in doubles.

Also, you know how if you have tap-jump off you can't use upB again until you jump? Well this is true even with tap-jump on. The reason we can seemingly do it it because when you move the control stick up, it tap-jumps but you don't realize it because the upB momentum canceling takes over.
Try this: Use Extreme Speed somewhere, as long as it end's in you NOT dieing. Now move the control stick to utilt, (if you jump, start over) now try using upB. You cant. Note: if you start charging an aura sphere instead, you aren't tilting high enough.

 

[phi1ny3]

Not that most of us will ever see Kirby hats other then LucarioHat Kirby, maybe the odd one will pop up in doubles.

Also, you know how if you have tap-jump off you can't use upB again until you jump? Well this is true even with tap-jump on. The reason we can seemingly do it it because when you move the control stick up, it tap-jumps but you don't realize it because the upB momentum canceling takes over.
Try this: Use Extreme Speed somewhere, as long as it end's in you NOT dieing. Now move the control stick to utilt, (if you jump, start over) now try using upB. You cant. Note: if you start charging an aura sphere instead, you aren't tilting high enough.

Interesting point u got there. This was one of my other reasons, until this was pointed out.

 

[PSYCHE]

I find that d-tilt leads very well into a force palm chaingrab, especially at low percents.

How does everyone feel about this? Does it work better than a normal jab>jab? I cant try it for myself right now, but it seems interesting.

Also, Im having a pretty hard time with d-tilt. the only time i find myself using it is when I am being approached. Should I do this?

 

[Popertop]

It's always good to have extra options for your attacks.
It would depend on the part of d-tilt you hit with I think.

But it's good to use in close quarters because it has some nice range on it.
And it pops them up nicely for a followup.

 

[PSYCHE]

Sweet.

Another question is does anyone ever try to purposefully hit with the hitbox that comes out from behind Lucs d-tilt?

 

[Milln]

There is no hitbox behind Lucario on dtilt. You have to be like... INSIDE Lucario to take damage from it.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Another question is does anyone ever try to purposefully hit with the hitbox that comes out from behind Lucs d-tilt?

There is absolutely no reason to PURPOSEFULLY try to hit with that hitbox. Less damage and less kockback.

You have to be like... INSIDE Lucario...

O,o

 

[phi1ny3]

You have to be like... INSIDE Lucario to take damage from it.

So now, middle schoolers who are doing dissections are now using dead Lucarios, and they are all probing the question "does Lucario's dtilt have a backward hitbox?"
lol, but yes, the hitbox, if there was any, would be verry tiny, so what would be the point?

 

[PSYCHE]

Alright, thanks guys. Im getting better with d-tilt. But the other move im having a hard time deciding when to use is his u-air. When are some good times to use that?

 

[Nodrak]

Alright, thanks guys. Im getting better with d-tilt. But the other move im having a hard time deciding when to use is his u-air. When are some good times to use that?

At low %'s they're good out of utilt combo's but a nair might do just as well. Generally I use uair for kills at higher %'s. Throw or knock an opponent up then uair, works great on floaty characters since they die so easily upwards. (Like Lucario ironically)

Also about dtilt, you'd use this over jab>jab>FP when your opponent is slightly further away then the jab's range or you know his next attack from your opponent will be out ranged by it.

 

[phi1ny3]

Alright, thanks guys. Im getting better with d-tilt. But the other move im having a hard time deciding when to use is his u-air. When are some good times to use that?

I had problems with utilt as well, but it is sometimes good to occasionally SH it, and since it's hitbox lingers for a bit, it's kinda like ur drawing a vertical wall, so it's good in that sense.

 

[Nurotasama]

I’m 99% sure you can’t do it with n-air or d-air

You can do it with dair. Let me try to get a video of one before I go to bed.

Edit: Here's a quick video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7VY-hpG6Cs

 

[Milln]

I can't find the rest of Jeepy's post of what you quoted and I don't see the point of the video. What are you proving? *clueless*

 

[Nurotasama]

I can't find the rest of Jeepy's post of what you quoted and I don't see the point of the video. What are you proving? *clueless*

Original post, the big green section:

Infinite Second Jump (B-air)

There is a thread in the Tactical Discussion Forums that says that most characters can Infinite Second Jump (ISJ), so I tried with Lucario.

(Video will be up soon, it is uploading! Basically it's just me doing it with B-air.)

If anyone can do this with his u-air or f-air (I’m 99% sure you can’t do it with n-air or d-air), please tell me exactly how you did it so I can make a video of it.

Credit to 3xSwords and Gazebo

The thread mentioned discussing it in Tactical: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172824


Pretty much you can cancel out the landing lag by using an attack on a specific frame and buffering a jump at the end. If you notice in the last jump I did a second jump off the ground like normal, dair, then another second jump without actually touching the ground (you can tell when you touch the ground if dust clouds appear instead of only the second jump ring).

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Infinite Second Jump (B-air)

There is a thread in the Tactical Discussion Forums that says that most characters can Infinite Second Jump (ISJ), so I tried with Lucario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfrdOWZMjXo

If anyone can do this with his u-air or f-air (I’m 99% sure you can’t do it with n-air), please tell me exactly how you did it so I can make a video of it.


I appreciate the video Nurotasama! I'll add it to the OP.

 

[Silvran]

Hmm... fair wall of pain if we can infinite second jump with an fair? If so... well, that could be amazing.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I don't think that Lucario can effectively do a WoP with his second jump, since it goes a little bit too high...

 

[Nodrak]

I don't think that Lucario can effectively do a WoP with his second jump, since it goes a little bit too high...

Depends on the character you're fighting and your percent. A lot of the time I end up doing 3 fairs then midair jump for the last one before recovering. Some characters will get hit if you fair fair > jump > fair fair though.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yea, I can't do it with NAir, way too much end lag.
I'll keep trying FAir and UAir...
-DD

 

[PSYCHE]

Im sure you can do it with fair and uair. We just gotta figure out the timing.

 

[phi1ny3]

Ya, nair is definitely bummed out. But maybe fair? or uair?

 

[Nurotasama]

Fair and Uair are definitely possible considering their lag time is less than the time of the LSJ.

If I had my new digital camcorder yet (its shipping in sometime this week) it would be much easier to get these to work: just stand next to a marker such as smaller blocks or Ganondorf and spam vertical attempts at a LSJ for half-an-hour at varying heights that would about place your ending lag of the attack right above the ground and run a frame-by-frame playback to find the exact height you started the attack in comparison to whatever.


Nair might be also possible to LSJ if used on a certain frame during the initial momentum upwards directly after the second jump. I'll have to try it out over the next few days.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Just did the ISJ with u-air a couple of times. I'm still trying with f-air.

 

[nightSN]

hmm iv been able to do it by canceling my jumping momentum with d-air

 

[Nurotasama]

hmm iv been able to do it by canceling my jumping momentum with d-air

Since Dair cancels momentum you can do it on the way up or down as long as it is in a proper position in the air. Its a bit more difficult than after a full second jump, though also rather useful. Personally I am practicing with dair on the way up for practicality and dair on the way down to simply become more accustomed to this.

 

[nightSN]

so question: does timing change on a spot where i d-air since it cancels momentum?