Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[Purpletuce]

You don't think you can parry Falcon's stomp? It is just as easy as any other move, although it comes out a bit slower than his other aerials, so you're probably just trying to parry to quickly, like you're expecting a knee.

When Falcon is on the ledge, I usually just try to stay at a spacing where I can avoid ledgehop knee, while also being close enough that I can put pressure on his return to the stage.

Also, I went to a tournament a couple of weeks ago where I did decently(bad placement but the tournament wasn't really seeded, and my losses were only against good players, beat a good player as well). I had one good match on stream, but it never got uploaded to youtube. The match is me vs. a Marth/Falcon, at 2:30:45 in the following video: http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/551902996?

At the tournament I lost to a couple of puffs, probably because I was playing way to aggressive. Any thoughts on that MU?

 

[hamyojo]

My biggest issue with Falcon is that he can combo Yoshi so well. Falcon's the mid tier destroyer 'cause they're all heavy+floaty, which Falcon's uair adores and Yoshi's right in that range.
I think I'll do a lot better with more experience, he's still hard for me to parry if he doesn't just knee.

 

[Sashimi]

Interesting, I love when players ledgehop knee. It's so dangerous because if they get parried they're offstage without their double jump. I have trouble with waveland grab though, haha. I'll take your advice and try to space myself better.

While we're sharing results, I got 13th/61 at the most recent Ottawa monthly. Lost to an ICs player from Montreal name CEMO (ranked 10th there) and a local Fox player named Tom(ranked 5th here).

Here's the set vs Tom. Was probably the first tournament where I felt my tech skill was off, but I'm still happy with my placement.

@ Purpletuce I don't have much to say about your set (you're so good), but your dash attack habit might be something players could take advantage of. Congrats, though!

 

[MrHazuki]

You don't think you can parry Falcon's stomp? It is just as easy as any other move, although it comes out a bit slower than his other aerials, so you're probably just trying to parry to quickly, like you're expecting a knee.

It is impossible to crouch-parry (which I hope is the correct term), because the hitbox of a sh-dair always reaches down to a crouching Yoshi. Yes, ofc you can time it perfectly, but that is much harder and less reliable.

 

[Purpletuce]

PerhapsMan: Thanks. Congratulations to you as well. We both placed the same at similarly sized tourneys! Lets move up together.

So many upsetting things in that game against Fox... I know that feeling. He seemed like he at least was trying to do smart things against Yoshi, and with his rank on your PR, definitely no shame in losing. I'm not too good against that defensive kind of Fox, but my advice would be to try to call out his defense with more poke-kind of things that he can't react to. Mainly Dtilt is my go-to here. Bair is really good if you think he will jump, but the more patient a Fox is, the worse your Bair gets.

I'd also work on your option coverage when he is recovering or at a slight disadvantage (like you could him shielding). It seemed like a lot of the time you were trying to cover so many options, that you would miss the chance for strong follow ups. For example, several times you waited on the ledge and then punished his upB with a rising Uair. While this covers lots of options, the most you'll get out of it is 1 or 2 Uairs, unless you're in a spot where you'll land from the Uair immediately after hitting him. I think a good set that demonstrates this is aMSa vs SW. If you watch game 2, SW is taking lots of really safe recoveries, where he might take a hit, but will be able to recover just fine afterwards, because aMSa was covering lots of options. Game 3, aMSa adapts and starts to commit to his edgeguards more, and his edgeguarding overall improves. (There are definitely situations where you can still cover all options and get a kill though)


MRHazuki: I don't know why the stomp would be much harder to time than most other SH aerials. Usually opponents will hit their aerials low anyway, as to maximize their frame advantage.

 

[MrHazuki]

Stomp has always been harder for me.
Even one frame extra gained from crouching makes it worth doing.

 

[Purpletuce]

Random side-note: I think I've said this before, but I'm sorry if I make lots of statements as facts. I can definitely be wrong, and I'm always interested in hearing different opinions/perspectives.



I also crouch when I parry, in fact at this point I would like to learn to parry without crouching, so I can parry and option select for DI. I don't think you gain a single frame of leniency from crouching if your opponent does a low aerial(against Yoshi, there is no reason to do anything else).

The idea for your opponent is to do their aerial, and hopefully get a combo off of it. When they do an aerial, the combo becomes easier when the time between the first and second attacks is shortest, which happens when the time between them hitting with the aerial and landing from the aerial is smallest. So ideally for them to combo you, they'll do an aerial low enough that they would hit you at the same time, crouching or otherwise. (this is also how you do aerials to not get shield grabbed) The only thing that really stops people from doing low aerials is if the opponent interupts them before they get a hitbox out. What are you going to do? Try to beat Falcon's aerials with your nair?

So if your opponent is good at shffl-ing, the crouch won't really help in a lot of situations.

There are exceptions, such as if they're nairing out of shield, or are trying to aerial through your shield... but those aren't really parrying situations, in my opinion.

 

[MrHazuki]

I know that they would like to minimize their lag, but for instance CF's nair is crouch-parryable, since it doesn't hit very low.
A lot of times, against all kinds of players, crouching really gives you more frames for parry.
Even more important is that Yoshi's stupid head hurtbox isn't hit first while crouching. I believe that some approaches can't even be parried standing up, because the head is so far out and you need to shield (make the head invincible) so early that they won't reach the parry hurtbox within the frame window.
If anything, we should learn to parry backwards instead.

 

[kofinater]

I definitely want to work DD parry and sidewalk parry, the dash animation lowers yoshi's profile, but its definitely harder then crouch. Good posture yoshi from sb4 would be a buff in melee lol.

 

[kofinater]

Also, I don't think its worth parrying stomp, just uptilt.

 

[Purpletuce]

Crouching/turning around will only change where your hurtbox is before the parry. You still get all 6 frames of parry for any move (functionally 4 though), the only thing crouching or dodging will help is if BEFORE you parry, they would have hit you should you not have been crouching/reversed. I think you are parrying too late. You should be able to parry a move just fine, even with your head sticking out, you just need to parry when he is about to hit your head.

Also, CF can definitely hit low Nairs. First hit Nair's hitbox is almost as far below Falcon as stomp. Second hit Nair is also a very low hitbox, and can hit Yoshi when he is crouching. In fact, do this test. Play Falcon, and have P2 be Yoshi. Unplug P2's controller, hold up on the joystick, then plug P2 back in. Release the joystick, and Yoshi should be stuck crouching. Now play as Falcon, and try to SH Nair without hitting Yoshi. You can't SH Nair with Falcon without hitting Yoshi's crouch(unless Falcon is trying to hit with the tip of his toe). That is if you do literally the worst possible SHFFL. All it does(against any real Falcon's attempt to aerial) is make Yoshi's parry a really late timing. This furthers my assumption that you are parrying too late. You can also hit Yoshi's crouch with Falcon's late Uair pretty easy. (late Uair means crouching won't help at all with that either.)

Parrying stomp is definitely useful, although it is often easier to intercept him. I usually use Up-Angled Ftilt though.

 

[Sashimi]

I would argue that you don't even get 4 frames for most moves. As early as frame 3 your powershield shows up and starts to cause trouble if you're not blocking the move exclusively with Yoshi's head, which would be impossible if your opponent is doing low aerials like they should. Unfortunately, powershield takes priority over parry, and our physical powershield is basically useless

That being said I agree with Purpletuce, and sometimes I wonder if crouch parrying is a bit of a crutch for me. I think learning to parry without the crouch benefit would help land parries in very frame-tight situations where you don't have time to crouch before the move will hit you, which is really the best use of parry, because against a good opponent, that's the only time they're actually going to just run right at you with an attack.

I believe that some approaches can't even be parried standing up, because the head is so far out and you need to shield (make the head invincible) so early that they won't reach the parry hurtbox within the frame window.
If anything, we should learn to parry backwards instead.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, but the parry hurtbox is identical to Yoshi's regular hurtbox, so anything that would have hit you without shielding would also have been parried with shielding, so long as you didn't shield too early, which would allow it to also hit your powershield bubble on frame 3/4 or your shield on frame 5/6.

Parrying backwards makes reflecting projectiles easier, but actually makes parrying slightly tougher since it essentially guarantees that the move will hit both Yoshi's body and his powershield. If you're blocking an attack from behind you never have more than 2 frames to do it.

 

[Purpletuce]

Am I understanding it right that crouching may actually make you more likely to powershield?

 

[Sashimi]

(Hope I can word this in a way that makes sense)

It makes you more likely to reflect projectiles than parry them (assuming you can crouch under the projectile - if it's reaaally low, then powershielding becomes harder when you're crouching), but for regular attacks it doesn't make a difference because Yoshi has no physical powershield on frames 1-2. The shield bubble you have during frames 1-2 only interacts with projectiles, so it doesn't interfere with parrying regular attacks.

So in any situation where crouching makes a difference (ie: early aerials), a powershield can only happen if you press shield way in advance - because you can press the shield button either within two frames of it hitting you while crouching, or within two frames of it hitting "where you would be if you were standing" and either of those timings will result in you parrying the move with the first two frames of your shield (no risk of accidentally powershielding).

If they're doing it late (like they should), crouching doesn't make the powershield any more likely than normal (ie: the likelyhood of you pressing shield more than 2 frames before the hitbox is active) because the move is going to hit you at the same time regardless of whether or not you're crouching. So it doesn't make it more likely, but it also doesn't reduce the likelyhood in this situation.

So there's no "downside" to crouching before a late aerial, you just don't get the benefit from it that you would against an early aerial.

 

[Purpletuce]

There is no downside to the crouch, assuming perfect execution. It still carries the tradeoff of you getting a crouch cancel, but having twist DI, if you miss the parry and get hit. Which is definitely worth noting.

 

[hamyojo]

So... anyone see me on VGBC Low Tier City 2 stream?

 

[kofinater]

yoo, good stuff dude, def looked too antsy vs westballz I thought you could have pulled out that game 2.

 

[V3ctorMan]

just in case they didn't I got you hamyojo.. There was surprisingly alot of Yoshi action this week.. (Even my washed up scrubby self found myself playing... I miss melee.. and people to play.. Keep up the good work Yoshis ...

Hamyojo

vs Westballz (losers top 8) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jezw6WqIW70&feature=youtu.be&a
vs SS PBnJ - (Losers Bracket) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkcMvhOVgA&feature=youtu.be&a
vs King Ramses (winners bracket) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVJGYcDu3M&feature=youtu.be&a

*Awesome job Hamyojo* <3 Keep it up!

aMSa

vs Flash (Japan's best player) GF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOz-L7Ej9eU&feature=youtu.be
vs Flash (WF) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McTH3YHq1tk&feature=youtu.be&list=UU_41fgCx0Cg_pE1EfTg9p1g
vs Koto LF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1S7DOypNcs&feature=youtu.be&list=UU_41fgCx0Cg_pE1EfTg9p1g
vs Soten - Winners Semis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49YyXSgkidA&feature=youtu.be

*it's aMSa* haha, he's amazing.

V3ctorman

vs Ic3 (winners bracket)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2nbmdG5nJI&list=UUh4KJOemR5sg5-NxWZw76QA
vs Angel (winners bracket) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB88ekYdoU&list=UUh4KJOemR5sg5-NxWZw76QA
vs Axe (winners semis) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxNNZxE_-r4&list=UUh4KJOemR5sg5-NxWZw76QA
vs Tai (Losers Semis) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT3QCVwN4UY&list=UUh4KJOemR5sg5-NxWZw76QA
vs Westballz (Losers Finals) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP_6_3qbysk&list=UUh4KJOemR5sg5-NxWZw76QA

*Some washed up scrub, that won't quit for some reason* I miss playing


Good news (technically bad news) I only have one job instead of two, so... I may actually be able to be useful again... but honestly, you guys are doing wonderful, and spreading the Yoshi love.. but because i'm washed up, i may/may not be behind metagame... I tried to watch all the Yoshi' sets this weekend.. If I missed anyone, my apologies.. <3 you guys, can't wait to be back..

I don't know all. but awesome job Hamyojo, ^^, I don't know what you placed at your tourney.. aMSa, got 2nd, at his tournament, and I got 3rd.. Keep up the work Yoshis.. 4 more months, and this job thing is gonna not be so rough.

 

[BigglesWorth]

I would love to ask two questions since this something I'd like to dig into more with Yoshi. Shield Pressure with Yoshi.
How do you prefer to pressure a shield as Yoshi?

The other question is help fleshing an idea out. I was thinking about what to do after connecting a perfectly spaced fair on a shield. Cancelled Jabs are 0 on shield if I remember it (come to think of it, I am unsure where I read that xD). But, I have been trying to think maybe I should just try to parry > aerial. Since, it should mean by the time an opponent can do something out of shield, I would have parried into a fair or something. Maybe Fair - Jab.Jab- Parry > wavedash back ftilt. I am trying to think if I can make a situation to where if the opponent isn't in shieldstun I am invincible or have putout a shield safe move. That way, even if its not true shield pressure, it is a trap to so it is extremely dangerous for someone to do something out of shield. Any suggestions on what might accomplish this?

 

[Sashimi]

what to do after connecting a perfectly spaced fair on a shield

Depends entirely on what your opponent intends to do out of shield. There are no true blockstrings in this game (except maybe some weird ICs stuff I don't know about, haha) so you have to make do with frame traps and good spacing. This means your shield pressure relies on two things:
1) Knowing when (what situations) your opponent likes to shield
2) Knowing what your opponent likes to do out of shield

Spoiler

As far as I know, jabs are negative on shield by a lot and they are only safe when spaced properly (there is no IASA for Yoshi's jab, so I don't know what you mean by jab cancelling). Jab is fast enough for frame trap situations where your opponent goes for something like a shield grab, but this only works as a read because your opponent has no reason not to just shield your jabs. They do very little shield damage and once you're done, your opponent is free to get away/punish if you mis-spaced it.

Fair > Jab > Parry > Wavedash back > Ftilt doesn't make much sense as a pressure string because the Jabs are only safe at a distance where you wouldn't need to parry afterwards and the wavedash back would take you way too far to continue. If you space it closer your opponent can just grab you (or do anything really) after the jabs.

Parrying works during shield pressure, but it it important not to let it slow you down too much, because that gives you a larger window for your opponent to get away. It can be used to help you get out of a situation where you misspaced Fair and need to make it safe.

If I know my opponent will stay in their shield, I alternate Parry > DJC Nair > Parry > DJC Nair etc, timing the parry for whatever out of shield option I've seen them using the most. If I'm feeling gutsy I'll replace some or all Nairs with Uairs instead. This has a better reward but is more risky since Uair is -2 on shield at best.

Tilts are safe but don't get you any reward except maybe a shield stab from Dtilt.

Also, I'd avoid repeated Fairs on your opponent's shield. One is okay, but after the second one they will just jump forward and hit you before the Fair comes out.

If you don't expect your opponent to stay in their shield for a long time, you're better off just baiting out whatever OoS option they like. Spaced Fair, retreating DJC Nair and cross-up Bair are the safest in this situation. Trying fancy things when they aren't necessary will just get you punished.

 

[Kimimaru]

Since June I've been out of NorCal, but I came back earlier this week for a job interview and went to a tournament last Tuesday. It was my first day playing Melee against human opponents in a couple of months; however, I've been playing Smash 64 online almost every day before that.

I had one match recorded on stream (starts around 1:38:25) and I appreciate all feedback:
http://www.twitch.tv/showdownsmash/b/559926423

Last time we played I beat him on FD, but I feel I should've struck both it and Yoshi's for the first game this set. I think Pokemon Stadium is actually his best stage and I don't recall ever beating him on it, so I need to make sure I win the first game next time.

FYI, this was a free tournament and the seeding wasn't too great (this was 2nd round Winner's side, way too early for a match like this). My highlight for this tournament was beating Gar, a Sheik player who took a set off ZeRo during Pat's House 2, 2-0, but that wasn't recorded. Overall, I placed 13th out of 64 entrants.

I agree with V3ctorman: keep it up everyone! Yoshi players seem to be stronger than ever before. HMW even makes a comment about this in my set above.

EDIT: The above link no longer works since that stream recording was taken down. Here is the match uploaded to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BCejZaST4c

 

[hamyojo]

but awesome job Hamyojo, ^^, I don't know what you placed at your tourney.. aMSa, got 2nd, at his tournament, and I got 3rd.. Keep up the work Yoshis.. 4 more months, and this job thing is gonna not be so rough.

I got 7th at LTC, just in the money! I was playing soooooo nervous during those sets on stream.
Here's me playing less nervous at a tourney that thurs. I was scared vs Denti though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiuOWWmQJl8& vs JWU (Sheik, Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfueXOAsOA& vs Thoraxe (Luigi, Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guTu5gSCQ_c& vs Denti (campy puff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEihagj3bGE& vs Wobbles (IC's, don't watch this match.)

And I have to say I was playing friendlies with Westballz before our set. I went in with the rare mindset that I simply can't win, which I shouldn't have gone with. I do that vs Wobbles to. I think I'm going to drop that, because I could have won game 2 I was just playing silly. I've learned to never doubt myself and to seize opportunities when they arise.

V-Man, it was nice seeing ya play again, it was hype. We love ya.

Kimi you're so good, I'm jealous of your region. Laudandus says you're great, I just wish there were more vids of you. Laudandus destroyed me off stream btw, but I was also not expecting to win (more bad mindset stuff I will be fixing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lloh-w_EvlM&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guTu5gSCQ_c&
If anyone's up to give me advice this is where I want it the most. I'm very new to these MU's and it frustrates me so much. I was playing nervous but I don't think my option selects were to off. Falcon and Puff are both so hard

 

[Kimimaru]

Kimi you're so good, I'm jealous of your region. Laudandus says you're great, I just wish there were more vids of you. Laudandus destroyed me off stream btw, but I was also not expecting to win (more bad mindset stuff I will be fixing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lloh-w_EvlM&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guTu5gSCQ_c&
If anyone's up to give me advice this is where I want it the most. I'm very new to these MU's and it frustrates me so much. I was playing nervous but I don't think my option selects were to off. Falcon and Puff are both so hard

Thanks! I watched the Falcon match and here are my thoughts:

-First off, these matches were very close, which is great for being new to the MU!
-Great use of shield drops!
-F-air is a little risky for edgeguarding Falcon since he can Meteor Cancel it and has a better chance at making it back since the hitbox is out for only 2 or 3 frames, meaning if you miss you're now offstage. Usually what I do is wait on the edge and D-smash, F-smash, or edgehog -> N-air. Falcon's recovery is predictable so don't be afraid to be patient and see what he does
-I've noticed that you use F-air a lot from the edge, which was an old habit of mine. While it does have its uses, not mixing it up makes it predictable and thus makes it easy for the opponent to gimp Yoshi. Use ECEs to get Falcon away from the edge so you can get back on stage safely
-When recovering high, go for the edge or a platform. If the opponent is waiting, just go for the edge. Starting at 2:45, Falcon was waiting for you to attack and countered your option three times in a row. I see 2 possible options in that scenario: use Down + B to grab the edge, or recover low/mid height, throwing an egg to cover you
-More jab resets! Almost everytime I get a knock down on Falcon, I jab reset into lots of things depending on the percentage. If you want to mix it up and not jab reset, D-smash to mess up his DI
-More CC! Falcon has trouble dealing with CC; if you're having trouble getting a kill and came back from a fresh stock, one thing you can do is CC his N-air -> D-smash if you know its coming
-Nice use of U-smash; it's a valuable asset in this MU. I often use it to stuff approaches, which usually catches the opponent off guard and makes them miss the tech

That's all I've got so far. In general, patient Falcons are pretty tough to deal with. If he's on the ground and you want to use aerials, avoid FH aerials and try SH B-air or other DJC options. Pay attention to how much he's shielding and grab him or use Egg Lay if he's a shield-happy player. I feel if you had just a little more experience in the MU you could've won. Keep up the great work! I may get to the Puff MU later today.

I had no idea Laudandus went to LTC2. He's a very good, patient Sheik who is currently on the NorCal PR. Speaking of which, how do you feel about the Sheik MU?

 

[hamyojo]

I had no idea Laudandus went to LTC2. He's a very good, patient Sheik who is currently on the NorCal PR. Speaking of which, how do you feel about the Sheik MU?

Thanks lots for the advice, I'll put it to good use.

I don't get very much good Sheik MU practice, but my old training buddy was a Sheik(and was the kind who'd chain grab the whole time on FD, which I was fine with and it helped me get at least okay vs that) but that was awhile ago, before I even started to parry. I think it's not too bad, but DFW is pretty limited for exp. I don't think I've ever lost to a Sheik in tourney and I love comboing her. I think Falcon's harder in a lot of ways for me still.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Recently converted to Yoshi, after considering it for a few months. He may be a low tier, but I always found him so much more fun. Right now, I'm trying to practice my movement. How should I go about doing this? I also have trouble applying wavelands, since I don't know what to do afterwards. I'm mainly working on having decent tech skill at first, since my Yoshi tech is just HORRIBLE. Any other advice on how to get more consistent with stuff like this would be appreciated.

 

[Kimimaru]

The first thing I'd suggest is to get the Double Jump Cancel (DJC) timing down for his aerials. Next practice wavelanding on platforms and combine that with DJC aerials. Once you've got the hang of controlling Yoshi, you naturally begin to see his options in certain situations. The only thing I can suggest for being consistent is to practice tech at least once a day for a half hour to an hour (or longer depending on your preference).

The next step after that is to apply your tech in matches against human players.

 

[MrHazuki]

I hate Denti. I hate his guts. He is incredibly boring.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

The first thing I'd suggest is to get the Double Jump Cancel (DJC) timing down for his aerials. Next practice wavelanding on platforms and combine that with DJC aerials. Once you've got the hang of controlling Yoshi, you naturally begin to see his options in certain situations. The only thing I can suggest for being consistent is to practice tech at least once a day for a half hour to an hour (or longer depending on your preference).

The next step after that is to apply your tech in matches against human players.

What do you mean by combining wavelanding with DJC aerials? I've got DJC down from my experience learning it in PM, and wavelanding I'm still working on a bit. How should I practice wavelanding into a DJC aerial? Also, I see aMSa waveland on a platform, then somehow quickly drop down and immediately shift his momentum (and the way he's facing) to the other side of the stage. How does he do this? Is it an Isai drop into a reverse DJC?

 

[Kimimaru]

That is one application of combining DJC aerials with wavelanding. Yoshi, Jigglypuff, and Kirby are the only characters in the game that can change the direction they're facing with their double jumps, so what you're seeing is aMSa wavelanding then immediately using a DJC aerial in the opposite direction and fast falling.

I don't know which piece of footage you're referring to so that's what I think is going on. However, the "quickly drop down" part you referred to makes me think of a Double Jump Land (DJL) on a platform, which is similar to wavelanding except you use an aerial to cancel all lag except landing lag (4 frames). Wavelanding gives you 10 frames of lag, so DJL on platforms is over twice as fast.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Is DJL when I use an aerial and Yoshi stands on the platform immediately? It looks like he has a lot of frames where he can't do anything, can that be cancelled or is it just aesthetic? I haven't experimented much with it.

 

[Purpletuce]

Yes, that is a DJC, and the lag should be 4 frames. That is the shortest any type of landing will give you, although it isn't a massive improvement,(sometimes as little as 3 frames faster than landing with an l-cancel) it could be useful in certain situations.

Definitely isn't something you need to worry about when you're starting out. If anything, just be aware of it, so you don't cancel a hitbox when you're trying to chase with an aerial.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Found that aMSa would waveland off the platform into a RDJC. However, I'm still confused about practical ways to use wavelanding in normal games. Should I always try to waveland OFF? Also, another question: How do I approach as Yoshi?

 

[kofinater]

Found that aMSa would waveland off the platform into a RDJC. However, I'm still confused about practical ways to use wavelanding in normal games. Should I always try to waveland OFF? Also, another question: How do I approach as Yoshi?

No, don't always waaveland off, there is only so much space an oppenent needs to cover if you're wave landing off, I've recently been implementing short wave lands to stay on the platform as a mix up. Approach options are a bit limited depending on the matchup dtilt, bair, and nair are probably your strongest options in neutral

 

[kofinater]

Got some vids up, would like critique specifically on game 3 of Ultima Scout.
http://youtu.be/vS3BZeR0HEk Me vs Easy E(Falcon)
http://youtu.be/xSQqYaaRad4 Me vs Beer(Puff)
http://youtu.be/yvjVdN7VN0A Me vs Ultima Scout (Marth/Falcon)

I'd like to make bracket at The Big House 4, training is going into overdrive. Will be in the lab for sure.

 

[Kimimaru]

Hey kofinater, I watched your match vs. Ultima Scout and here are my thoughts:

Game 1:
-At around 1:30, in a situation like that you'll want to pressure Marth by throwing an egg since he's far enough for the egg to be safe and has few options in avoiding it. If an egg was thrown at the right angle he would've had no choice but to take the hit, airdodge, or use an aerial to protect himself; all three are beneficial since the latter two will give him enough lag for you to punish
-Throughout this game, you stayed too close to the edge when trying to edgeguard Marth. D-tilt is an amazing move, but if he's ledgestalling you'll usually want to space yourself so F-smash or a DJC aerial should hit if he decides to come in with an aerial
-Use ECEs when you see Marth potentially coming back to the stage. This sets you up for a N-air that can knock him back offstage and close out the stock
-At around 2:34, a better punish would've been turnaround D-smash, which would've ended his stock

Overall in this game I see you giving Marth too much space and not pressuring him enough. Use eggs when he's above you and incorporate grabs and/or Egg Lay to counter his shielding. I firmly believe Yoshi wins the MU on this stage, so work on your DI and ECEs so he has more trouble killing you. Dash attack is a good option against a Marth that used his double jump, so explore that too.

Game 2:
-Good use of eggs to edgeguard at 5:00!
-5:15 - 5:20: great techchase sequence here! I feel you may have gotten more out of the U-airs if you DJC'd them
-Marth whiffed many F-smashes and none were punished. Running grab -> D-throw -> U-air is a guaranteed punish if you're near the center of the stage, otherwise just D-throw gets him in a good position regardless. Other options include running D-smash or DJC N-air. Against this Marth, grab seems like the better option since he shields a lot
-Overall better job here!

Game 3:
-At 9:03, Falcon's missed tech should've been punished by a D-smash
-I like the use of U-tilt to punish Falcon's OOS options; I use it myself quite a bit too
-Nice ECEs on the mountain! I'm wondering why I see very little done on the edge to keep the opponent away, though
-Try to avoid jumping in the air too often or keeping your double jump out for too long; a knee at 30% may kill you

Overall you have pretty good fundamentals but need to improve your movement and edgeguarding with emphasis on the former. Yoshi needs to utilize all of his movement options to pressure the opponent and give himself more offensive and defensive options that are unavailable otherwise. I think it's great that you can parry, but sometimes I thought you may have been fishing for one too often.

Also implement a grab game and practice comboing with DJC U-airs. Those are your greatest assets against fastfallers (actually any character, really), so you'll need to have those down to increase your chances of making it out of bracket. You can practice basic ones against CPUs, but if you have the 20XX training pack it'll be even easier since CPUs will mix up their DI.

You have a little over a month for TBH4, so continue watching videos of aMSa/VMan/others and practicing on your own or with friends (preferable). Attend more tournaments and try to get more matches recorded so we can help you further. Good luck; I know you can do it!

 

[kofinater]

Thanks man, I'll be going to weeklies every Friday(Man on a Ledge) which has a stream and 2-3 side recording setups and there is going to be a huge regional(The Shape of Melee to Come 5) the week before TBH4, so I should have some things up. Now that I'm at school I'll have a much easier time playing against people.

 

[Denti]

I hate Denti. I hate his guts. He is incredibly boring.

I hate MrHazuki. I hate his guts. He makes me feel like... feel like.. a sexy woman!

 

[MrHazuki]

I hate MrHazuki. I hate his guts. He makes me feel like... feel like.. a sexy woman!

^_^
Stop being a cancer to smash.

 

[Denti]

^_^
Stop being a cancer to smash.

 

[MrHazuki]

I don't mind being a hater of something worth hating.

Got 4:th at a local in Denmark. Lost to Eagle's Doc and a smart parry-avoiding Fox (Navn). Had barely slept at all and felt a bit ill the entire day. I fell asleep between my sets so people had to wake me up.
Some sets might be recorded.