Ask Ice Climber Players About Ice Climbers Thread

[Kail]

so ganon and c falcon are useless against IC hehe...
so what about fox, falco and sheik? they CAN double stick DI right?

Ganon actually has the advantage in this match up I believe. You can't shield grab him since his aerial will push you out of grab range, and WDing to grab is easily stopped by his jab and forward tilt. Once he separates you a smart Ganon will kill off Nana so he can grab effectively. The smartest thing to do would be catch him in the air, and make sure he doesn't fire off and aerial before you do.

Captain Falcon is becoming a common counter for Ice Climbers now. He is hard to grab because of his speed and his knock back will usually push you out of grab range. Don't try to wave dash to grab because chances are he's already in the air again, or half way across the stage. You'll likely lose Nana once you are seperated just like Ganon. However, once you get that grab in, don't let him go. The only time your safe from Captain Falcon is when he is in your hands.

Fox can get out of the down throw-down air chain throw fairly easy if they know how. Even if they do, chances are you can still catch them at least once. Like Binx said if they break loose twice they won't get caught with it so stop trying.

Falco it is a lot harder to get out of. In my experience it's worth trying more often since it's harder for them to break free.

Shiek, if you are uncomfortable with the down air or down smash, just down throw chain grab. You don't actually need to do anything to assist in it.

Also, if you are chain throwing a good percent of the time, you can just throw them and let them hit the ground. They will likely miss the tech, which means an easy wave dash to down smash. If they do manage to get the tech in, they only have 3 options so wave dash forward then punish the tech with either a regrab, down smash, or forward smash.

 

[Wobbles]

A lot of characters cannot get out of d-throw d-air if you're performing it against a wall; at least, I was able to do it up to around 200ish percent on Pokemon Stadium's tree and cliff formations without an enemy escaping. He was trying to tech, smash DI, and buffer rolls and dodges with the c-stick, but it didn't work.

He may have been doing it wrong, but I'm pretty sure the wall gives you a major boost in chaingrabbing abilities.

 

[BC AL]

Binx, why is it s 1/7 chance? and where is wobbles' post of these tricks he does? i ll bet its gona be really useful...XD
ooh so ganon and falcon do stand a chance..-_-because of their uber strong attacks eh..so one grab = over for ganon and falcon, thats all i really got to focus on then. Thanks for teh other advice though!
for fox, a dthrow once should be good then, and for falco you can try multiple times until he gets out and for sheik, (i am uncomfortable with teh dair and dsmash CG) i do a normal downthrow grab...and the teching advice..I LIKE IT HAHAHA kk i got it thanks again!
Wobbles, oh really, so that would only apply to corneria and pk stadium, still, useful to know thanks, and btw Wobbles, where can i find the tricks u do during chaingrabs? (as mentioned previously from binx?)

 

[Kail]

Easiest way to find it, click on Wobbles' name, go to public profile, go to all threads created by Wobbles.

 

[BC AL]

errgh, im still a noob at smashboards ic...
well thanks for all ur advice

 

[BC AL]

sorry for teh double post...but
i ve noticed in Chu's vids that he BARELY use ice blocks, well maybe once or twice in a match except when he's doing an ice block chaser, why is that? as long if you re at a good distance it should be ok to use...

 

[Tsuki]

Heya,im pretty n00b to Ice Climbers so i wondered how to Edgehog correctly?
When i wavedash both fall off and such.
And what should i use when ledgehopping?

 

[kenkowtow]

@BC AL
Although I can't be 100% sure I believe the reason is the same as Peach pulling turnips. Now if you're on the other side of FD then I don't see why not (but ice blocks don't go to the other side), but the lag-time after using the ice block is just too much.

@Tsuki
How to edge-hog correctly? If you are at "n00b" levels of gameplay if they're far out enough just SH or full jump onto the ledge, Nana should jump back onto the stage. If they're not too far then you would need to wavedash (...backwards). As far as both your climbers falling instead of grabbing, I think you're either too close to the ledge, wavedashing too far, or a combination of both.
The climbers don't really have too many viable options as far as attacking from the edge. F-air is too slow, n-air has low range, b-air hits behind, d-air... well use d-air. Now if you have some time to practice it, you should really try to practice wavedashing onto the stage. I personally think this is the Ice Climber's best option.

 

[Lixivium]

sorry for teh double post...but
i ve noticed in Chu's vids that he BARELY use ice blocks, well maybe once or twice in a match except when he's doing an ice block chaser, why is that? as long if you re at a good distance it should be ok to use...

Because Ice Blocks are easy to get around, and good players can often punish you for it.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Question...

How often do you guys change up chain grabs in the middle of a chain grab? For example, I'm playing a Fox, right? Fthrow Fair spike -> Regrab Dthrow block-> Regrab Dthrow Dair ->Regrab Dthrow Ngrab Fsmash. This could REALLY confuse their DI and lead to really gay, gimpy kills. We have so many more chaingrabs than just Dthrow Dair, why not use em? If you add in Blizzards after each regrab, that's ALOT of damage and a very confused opponent.

[edit] I'm really having trouble timing the dthrow Ngrab with each character. When should I timed the Nana grab? Also, nana throws too unpredictably for me to regrab consistently(I can only do it like 50% of the time) could I possibly Jab-grab? It seems like it would be easier to pull off(I'd try it out myself but my Wii is being stupid and doesn't wanna read any games). Also, If Jab IS viable, could we chain off of the B-throw too? Would a pivotted jab be able to reset the enemy. Is the hit box for the jab higher than a grab hitbox?

I try to be so good and think so much about this game and yet I still suck at this game... ugh. It's depressing. D:

 

[choknater]

they are hard to pull off creatively under pressure. but if you believe in yourself and you trust your skill/timing to do it in a match, then give it a try.

also.. even if it screws up their di, no CG is inescapable and there is still a chance the opponent could DI correctly even on one of the throws and still escape.

 

[Kyu Puff]

[edit] I'm really having trouble timing the dthrow Ngrab with each character. When should I timed the Nana grab? Also, nana throws too unpredictably for me to regrab consistently(I can only do it like 50% of the time) could I possibly Jab-grab? It seems like it would be easier to pull off(I'd try it out myself but my Wii is being stupid and doesn't wanna read any games). Also, If Jab IS viable, could we chain off of the B-throw too? Would a pivotted jab be able to reset the enemy. Is the hit box for the jab higher than a grab hitbox?

I try to be so good and think so much about this game and yet I still suck at this game... ugh. It's depressing. D:

I had to sit down for 2 hours just to learn the general timing of each character. For spacies, you have to hit Z a moment before you hear the "thunk" of them hitting the ground. For fairly heavy characters like Marth and Falcon, you regrab a moment after they hit the ground (once you figure it out it's much easier to do). For monsters like DK or Bowser, you must wait until you see them going upwards, then regrab. Basically, it's completely dependent on the weight of the character. In my mind I just ask myself if they are lighter/heavier than spacies, or lighter/heavier than Marth and use those two as a point of reference when to regrab.

You don't really have to predict Nana's throw. After she grabs, immediately move forward a little bit. This way, it doesn't matter if she f-throws or d-throws, you can grab from either (at least, for most characters). If she u-throws, depending at the percentage, the easiest option is to chase them with a full-jumped u-air. B-throw is the hardest to punish, but you can wavedash backwards to tech-chase.

And don't worry, I'm in the same boat as you... I practice tech skill to death and play against my friend a lot, but I when I go to tournaments I get totally crushed because I can't play intelligently. :/

 

[Binx]

Well guys I played yesterday and after not playing for several weeks I was pretty rusty after 3 or 4 games though I started getting it back and after about 10 I was playing better than ever and I practiced some tricks I've seen from other ICs, so forward throw to ice block vs fast fallers, fun, also short wavedashes to confuse your opponent by making them repeatedly expect a wavesmash and have no idea when it is going to come, I also did this a few times where instead of wavesmashing I turned around and grabbed instead MINDGAMES jk, anyways though lots and lots of funsies.

Also a fun thing vs Fox dthrow usmash ice block nana pult to where they fell, if they do tech and block it will trap them in shield.

 

[choknater]

fthrow to ice block over ledge is too good

bthrow works too

falco/fox who dont react fast enough die LOL. even if they do react, they can die, as long as they get hit by the block. i wonder what DI lets them escape? probably just away di and an early jump, which usually goes to side b, which usually means free smash LOL (unless you get hit by the side b, then tough luck.)

 

[Speedsk8er]

Not so much asking for advice or posting advice but....

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3728028#post3728028

Are you ready to main a different character? I promise to break them as much as I possibly can. Who's with me?

 

[juki]

this has probably being asked allready but if someone would be nice enough to awnser it i'd appreciate it.

"what are good edgeguarding strategies for an unexperienced player"

im not that good, i know how to wavedash but my wavedash is crappy. i can beat all lvl 9 cpu charecters so the question mainly is how to edgeguard against humans.

"whats the best way to train against cpus?"

should i just fight lvl 9 cpus?

 

[Speedsk8er]

this has probably being asked allready but if someone would be nice enough to awnser it i'd appreciate it.

"what are good edgeguarding strategies for an unexperienced player"

im not that good, i know how to wavedash but my wavedash is crappy. i can beat all lvl 9 cpu charecters so the question mainly is how to edgeguard against humans.

"whats the best way to train against cpus?"

should i just fight lvl 9 cpus?

For an unexperienced player going against unexperienced players, desynch a blizzard with Nana and smash with Popo. They probably won't be able to sweetspot consistently, giving you the smash. Against opponents that can sweetspot, I suggest charging a smash and Edgehogging.

Don't train against level 9s.... Screw around against lvl 1s. Get timing for chaingrabs, etc down.. I play lvl 5s to have fun screwing around with desynch combos.

 

[Frozenwave]

Alot of new guys come with a mind that Lv9's are hard to beat, For edgegaurding just do like Nanablizzard to smash or something like he said

 

[juki]

ok. thank you for replies

 

[Speedsk8er]

This'll never happen in a tournament match or EVER AGAIN:

I desynch comboed a Peach w/ SHFF(no L-cancels) Nairs ACROSS FD INTO A FAIR SPIKE yesterday in friendlies. I think it caught her by surpise. XD it looked so **** cool.

 

[Binx]

Nice speed haha,

as for edgeguarding if you don't think they will sweetspot properly spaced forward smashes are probably your best bet also I sometimes like to run in and grab when they are slightly above the edge, especially if it's obvious they are going to overshoot it.

For advance edgeguards I mainly like to wavedash ledgehog right before they upb so they when their up b reaches me I am invincable, if they are going to make the stage I can just hit up lightly to stand and then reverse forward smash them back off, chain throw, or whatever. If they aren't going to make the stage I don't even have to roll because I am still invincable. The timing can be pretty strict though so it takes some practice before it will help you, I have quite a few stupid SD's under my belt learning this one.

 

[choknater]

hi binx i love you

 

[Speedsk8er]

hi binx i love you

D: What bout meeeeeeee?

 

[choknater]

hi speedsk8er i love you too

 

[Seikend]

Hey. Sorry if this has been answered already.

Does Popo Grab to Downthrow Then Nana Blizzard and Popo Grab work on fastfallers at low percentages? If so, up to what percentage?

 

[choknater]

well pretty much at any percentage it is escapable through DI. it works up to all low percents as long as they dont DI right... and also, it stops working once they get into the percents where the blizzard freezes them... but by then, you'll wanna be doing a smash out of the grab anyway.

 

[Binx]

I love you too Chok, I would just dthrow dair fast fallers at low percents, its hard for them to escape between 0 and about 25 in my experience.

Fun trixy: Downthrow dair a fox or falcon at 0 percent ONE time, then the next time usmash instead, they will be holding away from you, they will probably tech away, wavedash and grab again, or you can smash them off the ledge, keep in mind they will be low damage so you probably wont get a good edgeguard yet.

 

[gamelover15]

I can chaingrab (donwthrow, shorthop down A) lvl9 marths for two grabs consistently (sometimes more). If I can do that, am I pretty good against real marths?

 

[Smasher89]

Only relying on dairchain isnt going to help you too much, but that's a a good start even though marth can escape it.

Is this called platform desynch or is this new?:

During some practice against cpus I "accidently" went down through a platform and emidiatly(actually wait so both climbers are like 80% throgh the platform) used up-b. Popo used it but Nana gets desynched and I noticed it´s possible do do any aerial, including blizzard and iceblock, could be useful for platform techase mindgames, even though it takes time to setup and might be situational.
I'm not sure but it might be faster then a spotdodge desynch so maybe using it for iceblockspam or something?

 

[InfernalRaine]

im having trouble grabbing and chain throwing capt. falcon any tips?

 

[choknater]

im having trouble grabbing and chain throwing capt. falcon any tips?

do a reverse dair instead of normal, so that you hit him behind you and it's inescapable ^_^

anyway, just watch closely for when he hits the ground so you can get the timing down. he is actually one of the easiest characters to cg

 

[Kyu Puff]

Is this called platform desynch or is this new?:

During some practice against cpus I "accidently" went down through a platform and emidiatly(actually wait so both climbers are like 80% throgh the platform) used up-b. Popo used it but Nana gets desynched and I noticed it´s possible do do any aerial, including blizzard and iceblock, could be useful for platform techase mindgames, even though it takes time to setup and might be situational.
I'm not sure but it might be faster then a spotdodge desynch so maybe using it for iceblockspam or something?

Check out this video, around 00:48:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_yqpfcNLw [/shamelessplug]

It really seems like it could be worthwhile, but I could never find a practical time to use it. Platform tech-chase sounds cool though. If an opponent DIs to a platform after a u-air, waveland -> belay desynch -> Blizzard -> grab? Maybe useful if you just want to be flashy.

Also, is anyone actually in the process of writing an updated desynch guide, or did this hope die when Japanese Brawl was released?

 

[Zjiin]

Also, is anyone actually in the process of writing an updated desynch guide, or did this hope die when Japanese Brawl was released?

Yeah i think you hit that one on the head. Who's going to take the time for that, when they can be the the first source of brawl metagame?

 

[InfernalRaine]

do a reverse dair instead of normal, so that you hit him behind you and it's inescapable ^_^

anyway, just watch closely for when he hits the ground so you can get the timing down. he is actually one of the easiest characters to cg

thnx i'll practice that

 

[InfernalRaine]

What should i do against a smart marth?? (i play stupid)

 

[Binx]

Check the match up guide, and I don't really want to discourage anyone but if the Marth spaces properly they are really amazingly difficult to hit.

I learned the match from Chu by watching him vs M2K, shows how well you have to space against him, and all his attacks out range yours so its all about predicting his attack and coming in just as it ends and hitting with the very tip of yours before being hit again.

 

[Zjiin]

Check the match up guide, and I don't really want to discourage anyone but if the Marth spaces properly they are really amazingly difficult to hit.

I learned the match from Chu by watching him vs M2K, shows how well you have to space against him, and all his attacks out range yours so its all about predicting his attack and coming in just as it ends and hitting with the very tip of yours before being hit again.

Yeah, pretty much it's about the spacing. For less experienced Marth (less than m2ks at least) you can often fool them by WD in to shield and letting him throw out an attack as most c-stick happy marths will do. At that point it's easier to grab, or depending how close, shield-grab. When getting back to the stage, you should always try to go above him. Withouht a sweet spot, marths can mess you up something fierce.

It's one of my best matchups and it' still an uphill battle.

 

[InfernalRaine]

Yeah, pretty much it's about the spacing. For less experienced Marth (less than m2ks at least) you can often fool them by WD in to shield and letting him throw out an attack as most c-stick happy marths will do. At that point it's easier to grab, or depending how close, shield-grab. When getting back to the stage, you should always try to go above him. Withouht a sweet spot, marths can mess you up something fierce.

It's one of my best matchups and it' still an uphill battle.

alright thanks

 

[Speedsk8er]

I LOVE SHFFL DAIR. I've been doing this alot lately against people. Since Dair L-cancels so quickly, and I usually Tipper desynch off of it, I've done some SICK-looking desynch combos against my friends. SHFFL Dair -> N-Ftilt -> P-SHNair -> N-ShNair -> P-Fair -> to an Uair juggle. I tend to have to mindgame it alot though because it can get CCed and it's range isn't that good.

 

[Binx]

I havn't actually used the tipper desynch often, I tend to just play with very good spacing using my longest range attacks and avoiding aerial combat unless I am pretty confident I can't be hit out of whatever move I'm doing or I think an unexpected nair could lead to a forward smash (on a platform or off the ledge).

I definitely emulate a lot of my style from Chu except I tend to stay desynched for long periods of time after grab combos to maintain pressure. If I could choose though I would definitely play like Chu but when I got a grab I would play like Wobbles lol his edge chain throws are soooo goood.