Ask Ice Climber Players About Ice Climbers Thread

[Binx]

Hi guys, I notice that after G-reg and Cactuar went ahead and made their ask so and so about character threads that a bunch of other character sections went ahead and made some too, We don't an active pro but Wobbles does come drop nuggets of wisdom fairly often and I am relatively knowledgable about tactics and what not if people have questions, I might not be able to accurate predict my opponents as often as better players but I regularly can punish the things I do expect and thats what this thread is about.

So if you have a specific question regarding how to beat a move or tactic I can probably find the answer if I don't know it already. And I am sure the Wobbles and AznLep and Chok would be happy to pop in for help.

 

[Binx]

Kind of cool I get to ask the first question in my own advice thread, that question is going to be:

Q: What are the fundamentals in reducing my over-all lag and improving my mobility. So far I have noticed that the better Ice Climber players don't really roll spot dodge or use their B moves often. Checking SDM's frame data let me know that jump canceling your grabs will save you 10 frames of stun time.

A: Jump cancel grabs, reduce rolling and spot dodging, perfect wavedashes will increase mobility, obviously L cancel.

So any more tips for me? I am really working hard on becoming more fluid so I am better able to react to situations and punish more efficiently.

 

[choknater]

wavelanding helps a lot. lots of times people will escape CG's by DIing/jumping onto a platform and if you can't aerial them, do a waveland smash on the platform.

ledge play is also really important with solo popo, who is all about mobility anyway. master up-B stall because it's his fastest way to stall, better than just falling and double jumping. make sure you don't go too high or too low when you up-B. don't mess up ledgehop wavelands and make sure they are as close to perfect as possible. horizontal ledgehop wavelands on yoshi story bring you across almost the whole stage.

try using uairs and dairs when jumping onto a platform because it can keep you safe even if no one is nearby. it's not just movement, but safe movement which is important to protect nana.

spot dodging is not so good, but rolls are fine as long as you are rolling away for a desynched blizzard. i don't really like desynched blocks because they pretty much never hit, but blizzard first to protect yourself AND THEN use blocks is cool. also, sometimes protecting your roll with a desynched fsmash hits someone who is trying to follow your roll to punish.

as for lag... don't whiff smashes. you can hit people's shields, but don't miss completely. also, no unnecessary desynchs.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

How does one get around sheik's back air spam at low percents and f-tilt **** at mid percents? How does one manage that deadly grab the IC need in that matchup?

 

[Binx]

Someone correct me if I am wrong because I dont have a ton of experience vs Sheik, but I know you can wavedash upsmash her when he short hops and tries to do an aerial, even if you miss I am pretty sure you have time to block if she double jumps, if you think she will full hop or double jump you can run under and do a short hopped uair to beat her. You get the grab by forcing her onto the ground and getting close to her, sooner or later she will feel cornered and attack out of fear where you can easily punish her.

As for the f-tilt at mid percentages I am not entirely sure, a well spaced forward smash maybe, do you have time to wavedash grab during the tilt? maybe time it so the hitbox is just barely dissapearing when you get into range?

-

Thanks Chok, I sometimes kill myself with the ledge wavelands but its not really often, I have most of the tech stuff down, obviously dont want to be in lag from missing smashes but good to note for some, just because it comes out fast doesn't mean you are safe.

I know what you mean about sopo, I didn't actually know the up b stall was better than the DJ stall I'll have to try it, anyhow I actually need more advice on how to handle 2 climbers mobility rather than one, my sopo is pretty fluid comparatively, maybe I try to resynch too often? should I play 2 ICs like I would 1 IC and just rejoice when Nana happens to be there to help me combo haha? I know that isn't right but just wondering.

 

[choknater]

to rob: sheik's bair isn't too hard to get around. maybe she's just trying to keep your grabs away. simple wd fsmashes can knock her out of it easily. as for ftilt... i don't do this very often, but i've heard a lot that CC grabs can get through tilt spamming. also, remember, approaching someone and then putting up your shield can set up easy grabs.

for grabbing sheik... it is hard, especially if she jumps a lot. you want to grab her whenever she whiffs something. if she whiffs a jab or tilt, there's not much lag so don't try to punish that with a grab. but if she misses a smash or whiffs a dash grab, then it's an easy wd grab for you. then cg/wobble away.

to binx: if Nana improperly desynchs against your will, a good way is to run around to her position and WD in place. this resynchs you instantly. you obviously want them synched so that your combos do more damage.

this move helps if your dash dancing desynchs nana and you didn't want to do it. just wd in place and they're back to normal. it should resynch you even if nana is running in the opposite direction, which is really useful because it saves time.

also, there are many times when you are desynched while you are in close proximity with the opponent. if they are pressuring you, sometimes running away to resynch could actually leave you and nana even more open to hits. hit your opponent away first and then try to resynch. it's the same philosophy of decision making as if you're saving nana from off the stage.

 

[Binx]

thanks chok, I'll try the wavedash resynch tonight. Also thinking of positioning to resynch as saving nana will probably help my IC game as well, I should be getting some recent vids up of me really soon, probably tonight or tommorow night.

 

[choknater]

i'd like to see ^_^

 

[Binx]

They are recorded I just need to upload them, watching them makes me cry though, prolly cause I was watching some M2K vs Chu matches first.

 

[PB&J]

good thread binx..we needed one

 

[Pookiez]

quick question: Is it "bad" that I don't really JC grab? If i'm doing a CG it just seems that it is pointless to add anything that might complicate it and outside of that I rarely run grab, i usually do a wd grab/wd turn around grab (sometimes shield grab which I'm trying to cut down on since it gets punished more than it helps). I'm still trying to improve my ICs as much as I can. I'm just curious as to how important is it to JC grabs for them. That is the one thing that I am not proficient "enough" when it comes to tech.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I personally don't see the point in JC grabs with the ICs. Their WD is their primary form of movement, and from what I've seen people only run with the ICs to do their dash attack. I wouldn't worry about it at all since their wavegrab has insane range.

 

[Binx]

its one of those techs you won't use much but you might as well master just in case, although if you don't do a perfect jump cancel grab it actually is faster to dash grab.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Jam Stunna: JC grab is better than a wavedash grab in a couple of situations, mainly during a chain grab, during a jab -> grab if they DI away from the jab, or out of dash dancing if they whiff an aerial.

I was actually going to ask: a lot of times I've seen IC players constantly do dash grabs; is there any particular reason for this, or were they just mistakes? Does landing a dash grab makes it easier to start wobbling or something?

Pookiez: All you really have to do is press up while you're hitting Z. I find it pretty useful during a plain old d-throw CG; it allows you to chase DI easily. Like Binx said, it's not the end of the world if you don't do it, but practicing it can't hurt.

 

[Pookiez]

you press up? I've only ever done it with with y>z which seems to uncomfortable for my liking. I guess I'll try doing it by pressing up, since I do that for run up smashes with other characters anyways.

 

[Binx]

*double post* freezy internet

 

[Binx]

Thanks Kyu that was perfect, yeah I use up as well, sometimes I am lazy and don't do it which is really bad, and occasionally I just misstime it and hit them at the same time resulting in a dash grab.

I think most IC players just don't really know, as for the wobbling question actually Nana takes 10 frames longer to recover from the dash grab which REALLY throws off my wobble timing, so if thats the reason *wierd*.

 

[Pookiez]

well, if you dash grab I have noticed that you can actually start wobbling w/o having nana jab at all. while she is in grab animation you headbut and then make her DOWN tilt (if you try to forward tilt, she will just do a dash attack). I'm actually going to see if i can practice this it looks like it starts out faster by doing it this way.

Edit: nvm, it actually faster to do it with JC grab anyways, since the first tilt doesn't hit consistently.

 

[Binx]

Thanks for looking at that Pook interesting idea though, I can only imagine the wonderful things we can do that we havn't tried yet. I had this crazy desynch happen last night in a dream and when I woke up I thought about it and was pretty sure it would work, by the time I got to a computer I had forgotten it though =*(

 

[choknater]

xD i still don't even know how to wobble

 

[Pookiez]

Liar!! I seriously refuse to believe that.

 

[Binx]

I've never seen him use it in a match, I dont really wobble very consistently, I can do it but I keep hearing the hammers hit and then I **** up my timing.

 

[Pookiez]

I don't usually time it perfectly, but I notice that most people give up on smashing out of it after a few seconds, so i usually am able to wobble to high percents because of that XD. I do get it perfectly timed often though.

Edit: I just figured chok didn't wobble because he didn't like using it.

 

[choknater]

i really don't know how.

so i'll ask you all a question for ice climber players:
how do you wobble?

LOL j/k. it's just... i always time it incorrectly.

are you SUPPOSED to jab first with nana? double jab? no jabs? is ftilt or dtilt easier?

i have trouble with stuff like that.

 

[Pookiez]

jab > Ftilt (wait till nana isn't in grab animation)

Timing is a ***** and it seems that I am able to wobble for 30 minutes and the next 30 minutes I get the timing wrong every time so I stop trying >_>.

I really don't know how to make sense out of that... how the hell can I loose tempo so **** much, lol.

 

[pockyD]

i don't wobble either

ic players don't jc grab because they're lazy -_-

and dash grab works just as well in chain grabs (since both standing grab and dash grab come out on the same frame)... dash grab even has more forward range so it might even be better for catching DI away

but yes, it is very much necessary to be able to grab out of a dash (for whoever said jc grab was unnecessary because of wd grab) - dashing is just better (read: much less laggy) for short distance maneuvering (much more noticeable as SoPo of course since you are free to dashdance without getting nana dizzy)

 

[choknater]

i wish ice climbers had a good boost grab

sheik's and fox's are just insane

 

[Speedsk8er]

Okay, so I'm not good at this game at all and I tend to rely of desynch combos and regular combos MUCH more than chaingrabbing or Wobbling for my stocks(I don't do either at all). I love playing like this but it gets REALLY hard when I'm facing someone good. Most of my viable desynchs are:

A: Landing the grab
B: Quick thinking if I whiff a grab
C: SHFFL desynchs
D: Auto-cancel/Landing desynch
E: Roll/Spot-dodge desynchs
F: Pivot Desynch- I'm working on doing the version of the Pivot desynch where you can get Nana to Shorthop-block. Most of the time, I just make Nana Dash attack and I follow up with an Uair juggle.
G: Solo Squall desynch: I dunno why but this desynch works for some reason. Jab-cancel -> Popo squall works for whatever reason. Keep in mind that they can DI out though and sometimes they do.
H: Tipper desynchs- work occasionally now. I usually land it from aerials now as opposed to Ftilts although Ftilt Tipper desynchs sometimes work too.

Any other quick desynchs?

 

[Binx]

My main method of desynching is dash dancing and grab desynchs, sometimes I spot dodge to camp, most of the time I dash dance desynch a forward smash or a blizzard and then continue pressure, often times though I find it detrimental, this absolutely ***** worse players though. Against good people I rarely desynch at all, one because they dont give me time to, two because they will punish me when both IC's are lagging anyways and if they dont I am only doing half damage now. And three because I am being pressured most of the time and dont have time to do one.

Honestly I think its more benificial to stay synched at all times unless you are comboing, more damage + better control, and the only time this isn't true is when your opponent can't do anything about stopping the desynch combo, however sometimes I need to nanapult or something to force action onto my opponent cause ICs dont have a lot of range and I play against many a Marth and I need a way to force him to approach me outside of blocks that he can easily avoid/cut through.

 

[choknater]

i hardly use desynchs like pivot or short hop since they are a little more difficult to execute... i only do it if i really need to take that risk, which is rare. i actually pivot tilt and pivot smash much more with SoPo rather than both climbers.

the desynch i use MOST OFTEN is rolling away and then blizzard. this is pretty much the safest one so there's really no bad reason to use it. it's a good defensive move, which is fine because offensive desynching is too risky most of the time.

i also continuous desynch often. spamming fsmash or fairs or bairs while continuously desynched can be an amazing pressure game. however, continuously desynched aerials shouldn't be l-cancelled because it risks the other climber putting up a shield and messing up the desynch... but not l-cancelling also means it's much much easier to punish. that's why i like bairs because i don't have to l-cancel them.

obviously the best desynchs are straight out of grabs.

other than that? i don't really care about mastering all the other ways to desynch, especially if they are too hard to execute.

lol @ ice climber players being too lazy to jc grab. it's so true. i am also way too lazy to learn advanced desynchs. but it's all good cuz i don't need them.

 

[Binx]

Kind of funny that the character that is supposed to be the most grab based never grabs properly haha. I can't pivot with the c-stick consistenly so often times I will fsmash but nana will dash attack so I don't usually bother with it because we are stunned a similar amount of time so it doesnt desynch well for me, also its very inconsistent anyways.

I use the roll desynch occasionally but I play against lots of patient and or fast people so its risky for me, say against captain falcon if he predicts it its an easy stomp or knee pressure.

I don't even know how I would desynch bairs... sounds awesome though, what is the timing to keep it going, do you jump with the next climber right after the first one swings? whats a good way to start it? ice block, blizzard?

 

[Speedsk8er]

My main method of desynching is dash dancing and grab desynchs, sometimes I spot dodge to camp, most of the time I dash dance desynch a forward smash or a blizzard and then continue pressure, often times though I find it detrimental, this absolutely ***** worse players though. Against good people I rarely desynch at all, one because they dont give me time to, two because they will punish me when both IC's are lagging anyways and if they dont I am only doing half damage now. And three because I am being pressured most of the time and dont have time to do one.

Honestly I think its more benificial to stay synched at all times unless you are comboing, more damage + better control, and the only time this isn't true is when your opponent can't do anything about stopping the desynch combo, however sometimes I need to nanapult or something to force action onto my opponent cause ICs dont have a lot of range and I play against many a Marth and I need a way to force him to approach me outside of blocks that he can easily avoid/cut through.

The funny thing is that I play against a Peach and the only way that I can pressure her decently is moving from synced pressure game to a desynched one. Of course, one screw-up in the desynch and I'm screwed beyond all belief. Of course, maybe the Peach I play against sucks.

 

[Zjiin]

Important Ice Climbers question:

When I'm playing smash, there's this CPU ice climber following me around and killing everyone for me. What should I do while she does that?

 

[Genuine]

ahh this is world wide problem for all IC playars.
This is how i stop it
first facing the edge
i do a spot dodge to screw up their synch. Then i shoot a ice block with that wierd AI playar. then I make popo do it. while im doing that I press forward - forward - X - down B. This will make the AI jump to its death using blizzard

 

[Kyu Puff]

Lol, sometimes I f-throw -> Nanapult off the edge... and usually I completely miss.

My usual method of desynching is a pivot desynch. Seriously, it's worth learning. Pivot to d-smash is huge, pivot to jab/dash attack can = free combos, and pivot to jumping ice block sets up a great approach. I also spotdodge desynch a lot, but that's a bad habit that I'm trying to get out of.

Speedsk8er: You could try the f-tilt guard desynch. It's akward to set up, but it comes out reasonably fast. F-tilt in the opposite direction, Nana will jab, then you crouch cancel her jab and can do any move (usually just blizzard or ice block).

I've never exactly understood what the auto-cancel desynch is. Is it the landing desynch where Popo does an aerial before landing and Nana doesn't, or is it something else?

 

[Binx]

I've never exactly understood what the auto-cancel desynch is. Is it the landing desynch where Popo does an aerial before landing and Nana doesn't, or is it something else?

I am pretty sure that the auto-cancel desynch is when you do a move that auto cancels like a SH bair, then hold up to make nana jump, however I am not 100% on this.

If that isnt it then it would be a fun desynch short hop bair during the bair animation hold up you both land nana jumps and then do whatever such as ice blocks with a slightly different trajectory or a forward tilt which would make nana fair and then desynch from there.... even a jab would desynch then

 

[Phlemingo]

I didn't check to see if this was asked already but how do make nana jump and do blizzard without popo doing blizzard.

 

[Binx]

I didn't check to see if this was asked already but how do make nana jump and do blizzard without popo doing blizzard.

No problem, you need to have popo be in lag already or do it out of a spot dodge, roll or grab.

So here are a few ways

grab then hold down b for a second nana should blizzard alone - not very effective

spot dodge (shield and press down) then hold down b for a second nana should blizzard alone

Roll then hold down b for a second nana should blizzard alone

Run left right left really quickly then hit down and b nana should blizzard alone (my favorite desynch) also you can invert this and run left right left.

There are more ways but this will give you a feel for it.

 

[Pookiez]

I like up b out of shield to blizzard when I'm pushed back. It works well when I don't mess it up >_>

I also tend to hold up alot so nana jumps after attacks,It gets me some good combos when i do that with either her Fair or dair.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Auto-cancel and Landing Desynchs are the same, basically.