Ask Ice Climber Players About Ice Climbers Thread

[Twin_A]

Congrats Binx
Many wishes on a safe and long lasting marriage :D

So Wobbles how many infinites do you use lol?
And actually in everyones opinion, what is the easiest way to start wobbling someone? Like the set up I mean. What I usually do is just one D throw D air then hit it, that way I have less chance of messing up and I know Nana will be right there. Opinions on other good set ups?

 

[Binx]

I like thunder wobbles, dthrow most people DI and won't try to tech, let them hit the ground, jab infinite, altough my timing with the infinite is terrible and easily escapable. Also tech chase wobbles, grab dthrow predict tech wobble, they are the easiest for me to perform against slower falling characters though its really tough and I have a hard time a lot of the grabs I get on slower characters I have a tough time doing much out of, most of the time I just go for the usmash or fsmash.

 

[AzN_Lep]

Best setup for wobbling is WD outta shield -> grab -> f-tilt/headbutt. It's simple and effective.

 

[Zjiin]

Congrats Binx
Many wishes on a safe and long lasting marriage :D

So Wobbles how many infinites do you use lol?
And actually in everyones opinion, what is the easiest way to start wobbling someone? Like the set up I mean. What I usually do is just one D throw D air then hit it, that way I have less chance of messing up and I know Nana will be right there. Opinions on other good set ups?

One of my favorites setups for any kind of grab is drag blizzard with nana -> grab.

Best setup for wobbling is WD outta shield -> grab -> f-tilt/headbutt. It's simple and effective.

This way is probably going to be the one you use in most situations.

 

[Wobbles]

Oh guys, I'm happy to report that I found a solution to a problem I've been having lately.

When using Nana-grabs, sometimes you pull somebody all the way to the edge of the level or platform and you can't use d-throw up-smash (which is generally the most effective finisher). For whatever reason, it seems like d-throwing them off the edge pushes them out of range.

Fortunately, I just figured out how to consistently perform up-throw up-smash. Normally you don't want to use it because in order for it to work, you interrupt the up-throw animation. This means less damage, which is bad.

However, if you're on a platform and Nana isn't in reach for a d-throw up-smash, the enemy could be in KO'ing percent and you wouldn't have an available finisher.

But up-throw up-smash is actually pretty easy to do. All you do is have Nana charge an up-smash, and then:

1) Let go of A
2) Hit up immediately after.

You have to actually release the smash BEFORE you throw, and you have to do the two nearly simultaneously. This gives you a little extra vertical height before you smash, and it helps make it easier to land the smash.

Knowledge is power.

 

[Binx]

Nice wobbles, I had been doing uthrow first, it still kills pretty well, does this give you more damage than throwing first?

 

[kenkowtow]

OK I've got a few more questions:

1. Why isn't there a IC video thread?
2. Specifically, what are the utilities of U-tilt (I know it's useful but I can't see why it would be better than other moves)

2a. How do you transition into the move (WD -> u-tilt of course but how)​

3. Other than dair chain grab, what other chain grab techniques (if any) do you predominantly use
4. How do you deal with a constantly dodging, rolling, running, etc Fox? (other than "easily")

4a. When you grab a Fox what do you do? (At low, mid, high %)
I have tried the dair cg but at the 2nd or 3rd or so, the Fox DIs away (all foxes should say chain grabbed.. grr)​

 

[Binx]

OK I've got a few more questions:

1. Why isn't there a IC video thread?
Because there are not very many Ice Climber players that put out good videos and not many IC matches get recorded.
2. Specifically, what are the utilities of U-tilt (I know it's useful but I can't see why it would be better than other moves)
I mainly use utilt when I expect someone to spot dodge, especially if they are a fast faller because then I get the grab afterwards anyways, especially when I am solo popo.

2a. How do you transition into the move (WD -> u-tilt of course but how)​

I usually tech chase into it or predict a spot dodge into it, I personally prefer usmash when using it for anti air because its less laggy if I miss, easier to hit with and I know I will get full damage out of it.
3. Other than dair chain grab, what other chain grab techniques (if any) do you predominantly use
I use dair chain grab almost always if I am going to chain grab, other chain grabs are less reliable and usually harder to do, except against sheik where I favor dthrow dsmash.
4. How do you deal with a constantly dodging, rolling, running, etc Fox? (other than "easily")
Try to predict rolls and runs, with runs you can just chase further, when you expect him to stop, grab. Also if he likes to run through you sometimes surprise smashes can work. Fox is really hard to beat especially if they are good at avoiding grabs and gimping Nana, I personally believe that Fox is an IC COUNTER not anywhere near an even match, I don't know if other's agree with me or not but thats the way I see it.

4a. When you grab a Fox what do you do? (At low, mid, high %)
I have tried the dair cg but at the 2nd or 3rd or so, the Fox DIs away (all foxes should say chain grabbed.. grr)​

At low percent I like to either dthrow and tech chase, or on FD sometimes I uthrow and go for dash attack > ect. Or dair chain grab if they dont know how to SDI. Mid percent I really like dthrow fsmash or dthrow tech chase, or bthrow edgeguard., at high percents during a grab I like to dthrow take a step forward and forward smash sometimes you can do this with sopo if they are at high enough percent, especially if they DI up from the throw.

 

[Kyu Puff]

1. There is, it just isn't stickied. (And people are lazy.)

2. U-tilt has good vertical range and comes out faster than u-smash. It also has a long duration. It isn't that useful, but sometimes you can wavedash -> u-tilt under someone's SH as a punisher.

3. Regular d-throw chaingrab is really useful, if Nana is desynched or dead. D-throw to d-smash works the same way but racks up damage quickly. D-throw f-air can chain-throw some chars (spacies I believe) but I use it more often as a grab combo starter.

4. Wavesmashing? Or use more jabs. Also, a useful trick to wavesmashing is the DDD-smash (courtesy of Wobbles). At the end of your wavedash hold the opposite direction and d-smash, and the ICs will face opposite directions which keeps the hitbox out for a few more frames... that may help against dodging.

4a. Throw in jabs and blizzards, or some f-tilts if wobbling is legal, and he should start mashing to get out of the grab which will randomize his DI. If they consistently DI out of the CG, do a combo instead.

U-throw and u-smash combos at low percentages. D-throw -> u-smash is a good combo starter.

D-throw to SH F-air leads into a regrab, tech chase or smash.

At mid-high percents you can d-throw CG, which also recquires different DI and if you do it right is harder to escape.

 

[Zjiin]

2. Specifically, what are the utilities of U-tilt (I know it's useful but I can't see why it would be better than other moves)

People seem to forget that it has great priority over a surprizing number of aerials. Against fast fallers like fox and falco, you can usually juggle them with 2-3 uptilts in a row at low percents and end with a SH Bair. Unless thier DI is ridiculous, they're not going anywhere.

 

[Lixivium]

OK I've got a few more questions:

1. Why isn't there a IC video thread?

There is. But it's buried pretty deep so you have to search for it.

2. Specifically, what are the utilities of U-tilt (I know it's useful but I can't see why it would be better than other moves)

2a. How do you transition into the move (WD -> u-tilt of course but how)​

​

You answered your own question. Up-tilt (WD it for more range) will beat out a lot of SHFFL'ed D-airs and sometimes even N-airs from Fox/Falco/Falcon. You can also try WD -> Up-tilt if you think they'll spotdodge as you approach. There's a reason you see Chu using a lot of WD Up-tilts from the ledge (ledge invincibility makes it even more useful).

3. Other than dair chain grab, what other chain grab techniques (if any) do you predominantly use

There are dozens of threads for this already. D-air and reverse D-air are really all you need because other chain throws don't work as well. Maybe the occasional D-throw -> Blizzard or D-throw -> SH Ice Block chainthrows on fastfallers.

4. How do you deal with a constantly dodging, rolling, running, etc Fox? (other than "easily")

4a. When you grab a Fox what do you do? (At low, mid, high %)
I have tried the dair cg but at the 2nd or 3rd or so, the Fox DIs away (all foxes should say chain grabbed.. grr)​

Obviously it depends on the particular Fox you're playing. Fox can DI away and shine/spotdodge out of the D-air chaingrab. I've heard this can be solved by moving Nana forward a little when doing the D-air, but I've never been able to do this. If they are getting out of your D-air chains consistently then just D-throw -> (F-smash) -> tech chase. I've noticed that if a Fox DI's completely away, they'll more than likely tech roll backwards, and you should be fast enough to catch them. I can't tell you how many times I've done this to people:

D-throw -> dash forward -> WD D-smash

F-smashing works especially well if you're facing the edge; they'll essentially kill themselves by DI'ing away. If you have your back to the edge you can do Up-throw -> F-smash or reverse D-air -> F-smash.

 

[Lixivium]

Double post-no-justu!

People seem to forget that it has great priority over a surprizing number of aerials. Against fast fallers like fox and falco, you can usually juggle them with 2-3 uptilts in a row at low percents and end with a SH Bair. Unless thier DI is ridiculous, they're not going anywhere.

That's true, the other great thing about the U-tilt is the followup. You can almost always grab fastfallers out of an Up-tilt. At low-mid percentages I like to mix it up by charging a D-smash after an U-tilt - chances are good they'll be holding left/right to try to tech roll and add to the knockback. I don't know about using chaining multiple U-tilts; I would think spacies could shine or tech out of it, and Falcon can smash DI out of the second one once they see it coming.

 

[Binx]

I've never seen anyone have trouble DIing out of utilts, it is a great move when the situations arise to use it.

 

[choknater]

someone should make an IC video thread lol.

 

[kenkowtow]

I suppose I'll start working on one...

 

[Wobbles]

Up-throw actually won't do any damage because the throw itself never finishes. This is why you only use it when d-throw up-smash will not connect.

Actually, I found out that in an IC ditto, down-throw up-smash is incredibly hard to land because of how they bounce--or something. This may be the way to fix that.

Also, Fox is a very difficult fight. Your strongest position against him is when he's backed up against the edge, and even then he is fast enough to cross you up with a shine and put you at a huge disadvantage.

 

[kenkowtow]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3623420

Give me a [e-]cookie or go lock yourself in a freezer.

 

[Speedsk8er]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3623420

Give me a [e-]cookie or go lock yourself in a freezer.

*e-ice cream*

 

[Speedsk8er]

*double post*

How viable is the Dthrow- Tap reset chaingrab? Could this help us **** people that we can't chaingrab? Sure, it'll take a while but it'd be cool, right?

Also, F/Dthrow -> Fairspike -> Block -Tech-chase? how viable would that be? Nana spikes them into the ground, Popo tosses a block out. If they tech in place, they'll probably be hit by the block, giving you a free move. If they don't tech, they'll be hit by the block anyways, causing them to do the laggy stand-up animation, giving you a free move. IF they tech-roll away, they may be hit by the block and catch a follow-up anyways. Tech-rolling behind you is probably a guaranteed follow-up, I think it is a definite follow-up if you F`throw instead of Dthrow. Them tech-rolling behind you will probably not allow Popo to follow up(Block animation may not be over) BUT maybe you can make nana WD back and smash or something. Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

I doubt this would work though. Try it out and tell me.

[edit= I was just reading through the thread again and I saw this post.]

Fox and Peach's that know what they are doing should be forward throwing though right?

I was shielding and I got grabbed and I just kept holding L and when I was thrown I hit A after I had passed Nana and she grabbed while I was getting up, this was more effective than teching because it kept both nana and I safe, I wasn't able to follow up on the grab but if Nana had upthrow or thrown towards me I probably could have, he she throws down or away then at least they are off your back and Nana is alive. (this was against Marth) not sure if it works on all characters but it was **** fun, glad the thought occured to me haha.

EDIT: But yeah I agree with the clutch smash in some situations most times they are in the habit of attacking after they grab you and its really easy to smash them.

Could you potentially OoS upsmash also? I've been N-sheildgrabbing so I never really tried it but this post just gave me the idea. Would it work? Imagine getting Fthrown off by Peach and then having Nana OoS Usmash her and scoring the KO as you recover. Hell, you smash Up to DI the Fthrow anyway, this may help. Is it possible?

 

[IronChief]

Q. How do you make Nana throw people the direction you want them to be throwned?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Nana throws randomly, but if you're near the edge of a platform or stage, she always throws towards the edge.

Is Dreamland the best counterpick outside of FD?

It has high platforms make chaingrabbing easier than on a stage like Yoshi's Story, it's really big, and the wind blows you towards the edge, so after one or two chain throws you can set up an edge chain! After seeing the new videos of Wobbles, I've been practicing Nana-grabs, and on Dreamland you can just start Nana-grabbing and eventually be blown to the edge. I never counterpick DL but it's looking solid...

 

[Lixivium]

Nana throws randomly, but if you're near the edge of a platform or stage, she always throws towards the edge.

Is Dreamland the best counterpick outside of FD?

It has high platforms make chaingrabbing easier than on a stage like Yoshi's Story, it's really big, and the wind blows you towards the edge, so after one or two chain throws you can set up an edge chain! After seeing the new videos of Wobbles, I've been practicing Nana-grabs, and on Dreamland you can just start Nana-grabbing and eventually be blown to the edge. I never counterpick DL but it's looking solid...

Dreamland is a double-edged sword...if you come up against anyone that camps a lot. I prefer FoD for counterpicking, sometimes even over FD.

 

[Binx]

*double post*

How viable is the Dthrow- Tap reset chaingrab? Could this help us **** people that we can't chaingrab? Sure, it'll take a while but it'd be cool, right?

Also, F/Dthrow -> Fairspike -> Block -Tech-chase? how viable would that be? Nana spikes them into the ground, Popo tosses a block out. If they tech in place, they'll probably be hit by the block, giving you a free move. If they don't tech, they'll be hit by the block anyways, causing them to do the laggy stand-up animation, giving you a free move. IF they tech-roll away, they may be hit by the block and catch a follow-up anyways. Tech-rolling behind you is probably a guaranteed follow-up, I think it is a definite follow-up if you F`throw instead of Dthrow. Them tech-rolling behind you will probably not allow Popo to follow up(Block animation may not be over) BUT maybe you can make nana WD back and smash or something. Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

I doubt this would work though. Try it out and tell me.

[edit= I was just reading through the thread again and I saw this post.]


Could you potentially OoS upsmash also? I've been N-sheildgrabbing so I never really tried it but this post just gave me the idea. Would it work? Imagine getting Fthrown off by Peach and then having Nana OoS Usmash her and scoring the KO as you recover. Hell, you smash Up to DI the Fthrow anyway, this may help. Is it possible?

I guess you could, but they would have time to get away, cause you have to wait for them to throw and they would have time to get away, T!mmy told me that from what he has seen in AR all characters all have 7 frames of invulnerbility during all throws, grabs grab on frame 8 so it seems pretty destined for that, usmash doesnt hit until 14 so I don't know that it's fast enough, although it would be cool for sure.

 

[billythegoat]

What are the best stages to counter pick against Marth?

 

[choknater]

FD definitely.

 

[BC AL]

ok just to clarify, there IS no such thing as a chaingrab with IC is there? besides teh downthrow chaingrab and the wobble?
All teh others can be Smash Di'd/Double Stick Di'd out of...And from what i see, Chudat never chaingrabs anymore except when he catches the opponent off guard...or if the person doesnt no how to get out of the chaingrab...

 

[Binx]

Against Marth FD and I also like dreamland because he cant utilt you through platforms as easily, its still a distant second though, FD is easily the best level for the matchup.

BC AL the best chain grabs are dair and reverse dair, I don't believe there is an inescapable chain grab outside of the wobble, if your opponent doesnt expect it though dair can work wonders against most characters. If they know the timing it can be escaped relatively easy though.

 

[BC AL]

Binx, r u serious? thats awesome then! can u tell me which characters those are? and btw...what is reverse dair? thanks in advance!

 

[blackanese]

how do i beat Bum and / or PC?


if your tip / strategy / or solution fails, i will personally sue who ever was responsible 4 the answer given 2 the question i have stated above. charges may include, this thread being closed, being banned, or even having 2 look at my face =)

this message has been approved by the blackanese foundation

 

[AzN_Lep]

grab them (this is a must) Wobble to 300% to f-throw f-smash. Don't get hit at all.

Do this 4 times.

100% guaranteed it'll work. Make sure you don't mess up any of the advice though.

 

[Kail]

Binx, r u serious? thats awesome then! can u tell me which characters those are? and btw...what is reverse dair? thanks in advance!

It works on Shiek, Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Ganon, and a few others I believe.
It can catch Peach and Marth as well, but it is very simple for them to get out.

Reverse dair is pretty much what it sounds like. Only works on Captain Falcon and Ganon but I'm not sure on that. What you do, is down throw with popo, jump and DI forward with Nana, and once they bounce up from your throw, Down air. Then turn around and Regrab.

Pretty simple once you get the motion and the timing down.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Press the A button and stuff.

 

[BC AL]

IC Kail but it IS true that they can get out with a smash Di/Double stick DI right?
ooh so thats what reverse dair is...thanks...so it only works on ganon and falcon
i got teh motion and the timing down, im just wondering that if these chaingrabs are escapable...0_o i really hope not...

 

[AzN_Lep]

reverse d-air is inescapable for Ganon and Falcon if you time it right. It's also really useful if you dash grab fox or falco and Nana stumbles significantly in front of you. Just do a d-throw d-air and it'll work like a reverse propping them up for an easy grab.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Ultra-late, but congrats on the marriage Binx.

Is there any way to recover effectively as SoPo against Marth? I've found that when he knocks me off and I'm over 100%, it's pretty much a lost stock.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Ultra-late, but congrats on the marriage Binx.

Is there any way to recover effectively as SoPo against Marth? I've found that when he knocks me off and I'm over 100%, it's pretty much a lost stock.

Kick them.

No, not in the game. In real life. SoPo against Marth is hopeless.

Or Recover high.... your choice..

 

[Zjiin]

Ultra-late, but congrats on the marriage Binx.

Is there any way to recover effectively as SoPo against Marth? I've found that when he knocks me off and I'm over 100%, it's pretty much a lost stock.

Marth is going to try one of three things. How are you relfexes? heh.

If he goes out to spikes you or "feather touch" you just enough so you can't get back, you'll want to airdodge before he throws an attack. Depending how high you are, an ice block can be a good mindgame since it will stop your fall rate for a very short time. (only once!) Be careful when using ice blocks, because smart marths will just adjust. Also, SAVE YOUR JUMPS! If you have a still jump while above the ground level of the stage, you shouldn't be dying to marth.

If he want to hit you or god forbid, tip you, what i usually do is over+B over and past him and then DI backwards so i land back near the ledge. A lot of the time, the marth will throw an attack the wrong way, and in a panic smash the other way right away. If you're good at ledge cancelling-ledgegrab with the over+B then you'll be safe. Then it's a matter of WD onto the ledge to a jab-grab or just a grab depending who you're playing. Since you touched the ground before ledgegrabbing, you can also let go of the edge (back not down) , jump and over+B to get past a spamming marth.

The third thing marth will probably do is the bee-otch of the bunch. Marths who know might be full of mindgames or tricks, will just wait until you land and grab you, throw you, d-tilt, and then chase to F-air. The only really thing i do for this is head right towards him, and time an airdodge to go through him and a bit of momentum of a waveland, then i WD in the same direction to get away far enough out of his reach. DO NOT use the over+B to get around marths who like to grab a lot, since you're just giving them plenty of time to get their hands on you.

Note: I'm not claiming to be an expert on playing marths or on anything for that matter, but i play mainly good marths with my ICs, and i've had to learn.

 

[Wobbles]

Jam: You really can't survive unless the Marth makes a mistake in edgeguarding you. Generally speaking, your marching orders in that situation are to DI and keep trying. If he eventually lets you back on by accident, then try and make the most of your second chance at life.

 

[BC AL]

AzN Lep, thanks man, so ganon and c falcon are useless against IC hehe...
so what about fox, falco and sheik? they CAN double stick DI right?

 

[Binx]

Chu likes to forward b really high and DI back barely out of range and then fall onto the ledge, seems to work really really well even against good Marths.

Otherwise what wobbles said.

Thanks everyone for supporting my marriage lols.

BC, you need to use tricks to get people to not DI out of your grabs, I believe I read try to chain throw, if they escape it twice assume they know how and stop using it against them. This is good advice, basically read wobble's posts about what he does during grabs, he is very tricky and keeps people guessing, Ice Climbers have so many different options out of a grab your opponent should never know which one is coming.

Basically they have a 1/7 chance of guessing correctly unless they just have godly reaction speeds (they dont)