Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[oukd]

I've actually been meaning to test that on my own out of curiosity. I might start a list eventually and post it, but it'll take a really long time...

 

[soju]

basically works against most low tier projectiles and jabs, pretty much everything else is out of the question, and you need to be a set distance away so itll be rather tough getting it off on any ground attacks >->

 

[AXE 09]

Dkuo, you are amazing <3

...Are you guys talking about Pika's SWD?

 

[soju]

yep

10pikas

 

[AXE 09]

I'm pretty sure it works with any move that will clank with Quick Attack, or any projectiles that don't have very high priority and are able to be clanked with (for example, you can't do it off of a Falco laser, but you can off of a Samus missile)

 

[soju]

yeah it works with every move that with the same priority, the thing is pikas up-b has very little priority so your not going to be swding through smashes or tilts anytime soon.

And I had a very interesting dream last night which includes me and Axe playing 3rd strike at EVO >->

 

[DerfMidWest]

I don't understand how this works... do you just upB into the projectile?

 

[Nicknyte]

CAN THIS BE USED WITH PICHU, AND WILL IT DEFEAT AXE?

I HAVE THE SV CROWN FOR A REASON, AND I AM NOT AFRAID TO SHOW IT. :D lol SV too good.

 

[soju]

no, due to pichu's up-b having no hitbox it has nothing it can clang with and just get hits

And it works by hitting a similar priority hitbox with the middle of your second up-b, it's done easiest by jumping then immediately up-bing down then towards the attack.

 

[DerfMidWest]

tis quite a silly thing.

 

[soju]

Soju used Revive

 

[AXE 09]

Axe used Helping Hand!

 

[SSBMLahti]

Lahti digivolves t-

Wait...

 

[AXE 09]

Awesome/funny moment in tournament lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_NkHuSGwAY#t=9m3s

(9:19)

 

[soju]

lol. . . looks like he missed that rage quit <3

also, i must get my rematch with Tai again, it was embarrassing how horrible i played that money match, I've gotten my groove back but it won't stay for long since I now live in a place without any competitive smashers :[

 

[Deleted member]

So I'm probably gonna be posting in this thread now since I got to the point where my Pikachu is getting developed, and I am becoming serious about playing this character more and more.

I don't really think I'm gonna main him, but I think I'll pick him up as and build him as a strong secondary character for now. I'll see where this goes I guess...

At first, I just started playing with Pika because he was fun, but now I got a fiery passion that cannot be extinguished by all the up smashes in the world.

N64 recently moved to my state and I had the good fortune to play against his Pika and to learn from him.





Anyway, introductions aside...

@ AXE or N64

How do you specifically use Pika's up-b in ways other than recovering?

I mean things like up-b edge hog, up-b platform cancels, up-b for interrupts and gimps off edge.

Today when I was practicing my tech skill with Pikachu, I found that I could edgehog from the lower platforms on Battlefield. I also tried to see if I could edge cancel the lower plat from dropping down off the edge and up b'ing it (works but difficult to do). I will be putting effort into mastering those techniques though because they are very useful.

Can you share any other practical techniques similar to these regarding up-b?

 

[oukd]

@soju: this might be too personal, but where do you live now? <_<

@drpepper: you should watch videos of axe to see how extensive his ub+B edgecancels get. I feel like he gets better with them every time he attends another tournament. The more you practice, the better your angles become.

Also, how many of you guys are going to Apex 2012? I'm 99% sure that I'll be there.

 

[N64]

my main non-recovery use of pika's upB is the bthrow -> QA out and back. Can catch some chars' recoveries, and ends with you grabbing the edge, so you can drop off nair or edgehog or do something else from the ledge.

UpB edgehog is also super useful. Usually I'll do this from stage level, but you can do it from platforms as well on some stages. The main thing to note about this is you can do it from decently far away from the edge (it's the fastest way to ledgehog if you're far from the edge). Also no other char (except pichu of course) can really do this, so it's something extra the opponent has to think about. If they're not thinking about it, it can really mess up their recovery plans. "i'll just fastfall and upB to the edge before he can get there" suddenly becomes "well crap, now I guess I have to upB to the stage? do I still have enough room to make it?"

There's also the superwavedash, which I don't really utilize, but it looks super cool. It's been mentioned a ton of times, so I won't go into it unless you're unfamiliar with it. It can be useful, just have to have super good predictions.

I'll also use it semi-defensively after I've recovered sometimes. Say I got hit offstage, and successfully recovered to the edge, but now there's a marth onstage standing about tipper-length from the edge, and I still have to recover. I can jump from the ledge, but he'll fair me if he reacts to it, putting me back off the stage. I can roll or attack from the edge, but if he reacts to these then it's a free fsmash/grab/whatever. I can waveland on and either grab, usmash, or roll behind him, but i've been doing that a lot this match and he's probably caught on by now. Lets use upB. I drop from the edge, double jump, and just as my invincibility's running out, I upB straight forward through Marth, hitting him and landing on the stage. He's not facing me, and unless he crouchcancelled it, there isn't really anything he can do before I rising uair and get out of there. The main thing to get right when using this is to get your double jump height just right. If you're too low, you'll upB straight into the stage and grab the edge again. If you're too high, then you'll fall too far after the upB and have a laggy landing.

Also you can occasionally use it semi-offensively while recovering. If you knock someone off stage and jump off to nair them but miss, against some recoveries you can still upB through them and make it to the edge (then continue to edgeguard them). For instance, in a teams match once it was just me left vs a double fox team. I knocked both of them off with a nair, jumped out and dair'd one of them for the kill, then double jumped and upB'd through the other's firefox as he was recovering, making sure my upB still got me back to the ledge. This led to an edgeguard and me looking pretty neato.

You can do some upB ledgecancel stuff too, but Axe would know more about that. Super risky but pretty neato.

 

[soju]

@dkuo- i moved from norcal to socal XD but im about an hour away from any competitive smash scene :[
if i save up enough money and have a free schedule ill definitely go XD need around 300$ in extra cash *actually alot more, if i dont want to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue <3

@n64/teemo- don't forget about axe's silly up-b as an attack off the ledge, it hits falcon out his up-b and spacies out there charging animation of the up-b, and it can totally demolish samus and ness recoveries.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks for the tips.

I think theres more to be discovered with Pika's up-b but is really hard to do at the same time

I plan to become proficient in ledge cancelling his up-b off of platforms from dropping down off the ledge because it is hard to get back on stage as Pika vs some characters.

Specifically, the one I discovered while playing with my tech skill seems to have huge application but is hard to consistently do. I dunno if its used or already known, but it seems nice.

This is what I'm talking about:

 

[soju]

its fairly easy to do on dreamland because if you just drop from the ledge your at perfect distance

and good luck with the edge canceling, i will say its hard as balls with a lot of platforms but who knows maybe up-b shenanigans is not my forte :3

 

[AXE 09]

There's definitely a ton of up-b stuff with Pikachu that can be useful in more ways than just recovering. N64, I really like your idea of doing your up-b straight through your opponent from a ledge hop. I've done that before but I never really felt that it was safe, but after you explained it just now and I thought about it, it actually doesn't seem bad at all as long as your opponent isn't expecting it.

Super Wave Dashing is so awesome if you know a certain attack is coming that far ahead of time It's more of a show off type thing, but there are certain situations where it's practical and possibly your best option.

You can up-b and edge cancel from any ledge. It's extremely difficult to pull off on command, but there are certain "spots" where you can mark yourself and up-b a certain direction and always edge cancel. Unless I'm in one of those spots, I definitely can't edge cancel on command (without missing like 90% of the time). But I keep finding more and more spots where you can edge cancel easier (the most standard one being standing on one of the lines on Battlefield and edge canceling on the top platform). I came up with another edge cancel position about a month ago and only Taj/Tai has seen it. I've been so eager to do it in a serious match lol.

There's so much awesome stuff about Pikachu's up-b. I <3 Pikachu so much

Thanks for the tips.

I think theres more to be discovered with Pika's up-b but is really hard to do at the same time

I plan to become proficient in ledge cancelling his up-b off of platforms from dropping down off the ledge because it is hard to get back on stage as Pika vs some characters.

Specifically, the one I discovered while playing with my tech skill seems to have huge application but is hard to consistently do. I dunno if its used or already known, but it seems nice.

This is what I'm talking about:

Lol!!!! That's an epic drawing hahahaha. I think I have some examples of what you're talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fo19lmlwk#t=33s (0:33)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2pk-JEs-c#t=1m53s (1:53)

 

[Deleted member]

Yes exactly that Axe.

Pikachu can get back on stage alright, but vs characters like Marth or even Sheik its harder because they control so much space with their grab range or attack range.

This is just another way to solidify his recovery and make it back to the stage to attempt to control it.

Also lol ty Axe about the drawing

 

[AXE 09]

Yeah I understand what you mean. Against pretty much any character, I usually opt for doing a waveland from the ledge onto the stage though, because if you do it fast enough you can keep your invincibility from the edge long enough to do pretty much anything like Usmash, Ftilt, etc.

But yeah definitely the more options you have, the better You don't wanna do the exact same thing every single time.

 

[Strong Badam]

how (physically) do you perform uair out of shield? double flick on c-stick? I'm probably gonna try to implement it with DK at some point.

 

[AXE 09]

I press up on the control stick, then press A. So I always full jump out of shield lol. It's super rare that I SH Uair OOS.

For characters that have slower jumps than Pikachu like Marth or Falco, To SH Uair OOS, I tap X, tilt up on control stick, then press A. I play a lot of 1P mode lol.

 

[indigestible_wad]

When you're practicing upb ledgehog from the stage, rolling gives you the right distance to be able to upb off the stage close enough to diagonal down to grab the ledge. Practice upb->roll over and over once you get it down.

I consider myself very proficient at upb ledge sweetspotting, although I feel that's a very immodest thing to say without videos to back it up. The idea that I had when I started practicing upb was, the last direction will be diagonal down, so your options for different sweetspots are based on your first quick attack. At the point where the second quick attack starts, imagine a circle with a quick attack sized radius around it. (for the first quick attack) This idea will give you insight into the spacing and an idea of how many options you have to do a sweetspot. I personally only use about five of them consistently. Axe uses one that I don't, but there's one I use that I'm not sure he does. There are also three downwards diagonal directions. Being able to do all three directions after your first quick attack is extremely useful if you get the spacing of your first quick attack wrong. And that's only the options for upb that end in a downwards diagonal direction.

The downwards diagonal is one approach to the ledge, and it seems to have the most uses. There is the upwards diagonal to the edge, used when you're far below the stage; the direct horizontal into the stage, and the vertical down. The usefulness of these things goes down as I mentioned them, especially the down vertical. Usually you want to have an angle so that you fall with momentum and can grab the edge, which is why I don't recomment ending in an upwards vertical. The upwards vertical should only be used as a reaction to someone grabbing the ledge after you do a single upb to grab the ledge, however there is an exception for poke stadium, with the way the ledges are shaped (this is entirely situational and I've only ever seen it utilized once).

The approaches to the ledge not from diagonal down are less versatile, but are just as useful. I have two ways that I use the upwards diagonal, and three ways that I use the horizontal. The down vertical I really only use after an up vertical to camp the ledge and keep my invincibility.

Oh, and don't forget that you can use a single quick attack, too!

 

[AXE 09]

I was a little confused at first because I thought you were talking about edge cancels lol. Not sweetspotting the edge. The term "ledgecancel" kinda mislead me because a lot of people say ledgecancel instead of edgecancel.

But yes, in order to up-b and have a "true" sweetspot on the edge, you need to be going at any downwards angle towards the edge, or straight down.

Pikachu's up-b can go in a total of 16 different angles (up, down, left, right, the 4 diagonal angles, and every angle inbetween those). Of those 16 angles, only 4 of them may be used to sweetspot any edge (3 diagonal downwards angles, and 1 straight down). However, of those 4 angles, I only use 2 of them (1 diagonal down, and 1 straight down). It's extremely rare that I'm put in a situation where either of the other 2 angles are needed, but sometimes it is your best option. It's just really hard for me input those 2 angles that precisely so quickly. Those angles are usually only needed if you're pretty far away from the ledge. If you're really close to the edge, then any of the 3 diagonal angles may be used to sweetspot the edge (possibly even straight down too if you're facing the edge and you're that close to it).

This is all referring to just 1 zip of the up-b though.

As someone stated a long time ago in this thread (forgot who it was and I don't wanna give false credit, but I like what he said and it stuck with me):

If you're going to use both zips of the up-b, the 1st zip can be thought of as simply putting yourself in a good position to sweetspot the edge, and the 2nd zip is used to simply sweetspot the edge. Sometimes you're already in position to sweetspot the edge, so the 1st positioning zip isn't necessary and you can just use 1 zip to sweetspot the edge. However, that positioning zip opens up so many possibilities for allowing you to sweetspot with the 2nd zip.

 

[indigestible_wad]

I totally confused my terms there. My bad, I know that it's called sweetspotting.

You shouldn't purposefully put yourself in a position where your second quick attack will be one of those odd angles, but it is good to be able to react correctly if you are put in that situation, when screwing up will likely mean death or a combo.

 

[oukd]

Axe, how often does the situation arise where your opponent predicts that you're going to position yourself for the sweetspot and guards you out of it because they knew where you were going to go, for instance, for the 1st zip? Sometimes I second-guess myself and end up going for a non-sweetspot from the bottom in case they guard against a sweetspot recovery, but then end up getting guarded anyways. Now that I think about it, I second-guess myself a lot in general...

I guess an easier way to ask this is whether angling for a sweetspot while recovering is always the best option.

*edit: Ah sorry, my wording was a little confusing. I meant to ask if there's ever a reason to up+B to the edge from the bottom (without sweetspot) as opposed to the top (with sweetspot).

 

[indigestible_wad]

It is the best option until people start reading that you go for the edge. Everybody has different tactics to edgeguard from what I've noticed, and you have to adjust to how people react to your recovery. I've noticed that people who stand right next to the ledge while you quick attack are the most likely to do a wavedash edgehog. People who actually hang on the ledge will often do a roll if they expect you to sweetspot, or bait you into going for the stage to punish you. I see the latter with captain falcons a lot. Then sometimes they'll stay on the stage and try to attack you. Marths do that a lot, and there's not a lot you can do. Platforms help in that case I've noticed.

It's okay to second guess yourself at first, but then once you notice how your opponent is reacting to your recovery, you should be able to adapt. If you're going onstage when the opponent consistently hogs the ledge and jumps up to punish you, go for the ledge. You have three options, sweetspot, stage, and quick attack without sweetspot, and for anything other than FD, you have platforms. Each one of these options requires different strategy and timing for the opponent to punish you.

tl;dr No, it's not always the best option to sweetspot. Hogging the ledge is arguably the easiest way for your opponent to kill you. But if you have the ability, sweetspotting is preferrable to lag.

 

[soju]

Heya guys, I'm probably going to be gone from the boards for quite a while. I sorta feel like I try and contribute too much on this board while not representing Pikachu enough, since I've never made it out of pools in a tournament. So I'm going to be a tournament fiend for the next couple months and won't be back until I get into at least the top 11 in a tournament, not including small local tournaments.

Lates~

 

[DerfMidWest]

well... good luck i guess....
I tried to be a tournament fiend over the summer, but everytime I was about to go to one something came up on like the same day that I had to go to <_<

It made me mad.

 

[Deleted member]

The more I play Pikachu the more I realize how his spacing takes a different kind of tech skill in precision and accuracy sorta like Falcon.

You can do so much but it requires great accuracy and control.

 

[indigestible_wad]

*edit: Ah sorry, my wording was a little confusing. I meant to ask if there's ever a reason to up+B to the edge from the bottom (without sweetspot) as opposed to the top (with sweetspot).

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're asking that from the same initial position, whether to go straight to the edgegrab with one zip from below, or to get the sweetspot by using two zips.

In most cases it would be better to go for the sweetspot imo. However there are certain situations, usually for mindgames and mix-ups, where going straight for the edge on your first zip would be smart. The first reason that pops into mind is marth's forward smash, where the timing difference will disrupt him hitting you, if you space it correctly. There are other similar situations. Also, by getting close to the wall, you have the opportunity to tech things, whereas if you come from above you won't be in a position to do that.

 

[oukd]

oh yeah, totally forgot you could tech from the bottom lol. thanks :D

 

[DerfMidWest]

today i saw pikachu on a greeting card. It confused me for a little bit, because it made absolutely no sense, but then I realized, that greeting cards are the most obnoxious present when they don't have money in them. well, besides maybe like... socks. I hate when I get socks for my birthday. It makes me mad.

 

[Pogogo]

Can someone explain uair to me? Its really wacky. For example, sometimes ill go to uair spike someone and it will flub and hit straight up(the kind very useful for comboing)

edit: the pika guide says hitting the very bottom of the opponent will produce a spike. More desc would be helpful though

 

[DerfMidWest]

hmm welp, if they are kinda in front of you and you smack 'em, they will get spiked. if they're directly over you, they'll go up (pree much)
so go spam it and you win good.

 

[N64]

1st hitbox: behind you. hits them upwards.
2nd hitbox: above and slightly behind you. reverse spikes.
3rd hitbox: above and slightly infront of you. spikes.
4th hitbox: in front of you. throws them behind you and slightly up.

practice getting used to the positioning and timing.