• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

indigestible_wad

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
1,072
Location
Scappoose, Oregon
If you're having trouble getting to that reverse spike hitbox and keep getting the combo hitbox, you can try getting a nair or other aerial afterward. It will still knock them off the stage.
 

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
6,697
Location
England
Hey Axe, can you give me a run down of your dtilt game? I still don't understand it. :(
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Hey Axe, can you give me a run down of your dtilt game? I still don't understand it. :(
This would be awesome to understand. Seconded.

Personally, I use it to try and shield poke or safely shield pressure from a distance. I also use it after Nair if I hit their shield and I have spacing enough to dtilt to add shield pressure.

Sometimes I fast fall fair from above on the edge of their shield out of grab range then dtilt for extra shield pressure. The opponent sometimes will roll or spot dodge out of fear when their shield goes away.
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
I use it like marth would use a dtilt if he had a small sword.
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
1. range
2. i'm pretty sure marth can move out of his dtilt earlier than pikachu can?
 

soju

SD God
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
Being a Scrub
Uploaded a few matches from a while back. Should record some more next tourny i go to.
Sorry for the lack of audio and occasional lag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-unaH0hceA -Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIGkl6CS0Kg -Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8jnFOMaNc -Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1DvXsp0Jx8 -Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPo16Xz_UAk -Falco w/ Amazing accordion action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-jDU7cMTzQ -Falco(originally wasn't gonna upload this one because of all the lag at the end, but i really like that first combo) :B
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
I'm liking the frequent dair usage and pivot fsmashes, and your thunder shenanigans were fun to watch lol. Whoever DondonSF is has very quick reflexes.

Also, you seem to have a lot easier time guarding spacies that sweetspot than recovering back on stage (ie accordion video 1:45 unless you were doing that on purpose <_< there were other examples though, when fox/falco side-B over you they make a safe recovery 90% of the time)

Oh yeah, I have a question to pika players - when do you guys use dsmash? Because I honestly have no idea if there are specific scenarios for dsmash success...I used to spam it all the time but I realize that nowadays I barely dsmash anymore.

EDIT: I'm posting so much in this thread T_T
 

soju

SD God
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
Being a Scrub
Idk, its something about the dsmash that feels pretty good to me. I feel the only downfall to it is the lag, but its an amazing move to counter most aerials and if your not marth its tough to hit pika out of it. Plus occasionally I can grab space animals out of it if they DI wrong. But, I have a bad habit of abusing it when I don't really know what else to do, so it can get quite predictable.

And yurp ;D I'm trying to find all the exploitations of thunder since its a rather hype move, I also find myself starting to get a bad habit of abusing the fsmash as well :/ so I needa take a break off that.
And yeah, I'm really used to spacies sweetspotting so I get caught off guard a lot when they go over me.
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
DKUO. DON'T FEEL BAD ABOUT POSTING.
it makes things active :D

Thunder is a **** move. just sayin'. I like to use it as an edgeguard kinda thing sometimes (as pichu... idk how that works with pika)

It makes like... a wall that ends their recovery... then i smack 'em in da head.

i jumps off the stage then does my second jump back whiles pressing DownB and it comes down around the ledge area... I don't just like... stand on the stage and do it like a nubcake.
 

soju

SD God
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
Being a Scrub
>3> yurp, but i dislike doing it with pichu since it doesnt go all the way through, it doesnt really knock them back, and the length XD

And also I remembered a few pages back i said i wont post till i did decent at a tournament. . . :/ lol
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
lol why? Not posting restricts communication. If anything you should post more, I'd imagine it would be more beneficial to discuss melee if you're trying to do better.
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
I like pichu's thunder as an edgeguard because it covers all da options.. it doesn't knock them back far, but pichu can combo out of it (i don't believe pika can).
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
I know this is a really late response but here goes nothing lol. Sorry you guys ^^

Hey Axe, can you give me a run down of your dtilt game? I still don't understand it. :(
It's kinda hard to explain but I'll try my best lol. Basically...

My main use of dtilt is just using it as a safe little poking move to basically throw my opponent off their rhythm. One of my main approaches against an opponent that's a decent distance away is to dash towards them and do a running Dtilt. Sometimes it hits them, sometimes it doesn't, but after doing this for a while, I've realized that it's really effective whether you hit your opponent or not.

If I end up not hitting my opponent with it, I still do a running SHFFL Nair, and somehow I guess the Dtilt kind of throws them off because Pikachu is stationary for a small amount of time, so they misjudge their spacing and end up getting hit by the Nair (or blocking it, in which case you can still do a rising Uair to prevent getting punished). Here's an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liy8D3bIOdU#t=5m18s (at 5:18)
I feel like the Dtilt is basically an extension of Pikachu's approach, making it very very wide and deceptive to your opponent.

If I end up hitting my opponent with the Dtilt, it kinda depends what percent they're at. If they're at a low percent (or they're a fastfaller and they're at a percent where they won't fall down), I usually end up going for a grab, or an Ftilt or another Dtilt just to knock them further away, then follow up with a running SHFFL Nair. Example of a grab:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLyHN3z85CY#t=45s (at 0:45)

If they're at mid percent, or they're a floaty character (or in a fast faller's case, they fall to the ground), I usually go for either a running SHFFL Nair right after I hit them (which can usually combo into Usmash), or just go straight for a Usmash.


All this stuff is kinda hard to explain lol. If you watch any of my matches within the last year and a half or so, I use Dtilt a lot in pretty much every matchup except for maybe like Peach and Jiggs since they're in the air so often, and I usually just use Dtilt against opponents who are on the ground for the most part.

I hope that helps ^^
 

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
6,697
Location
England
Yeah I saw you use it a lot, I tried to replicate it with little success so I decided to ask.

Thanks so much btw. :3
 

sulliman1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
45
Location
Virginia
as a mixup to the dtilt wd in place or a little forward or back out of run has the similar effect of breaking movement rhythms but functions differently, it isn't as fast but has higher priority and longer duration, so you're not really trying to catch people by surprise with ftilt or threaten with it but more restrict their approaches (especially since you can angle it up as anti-air). there's a certain spacing point (mu dependent of course, this is all assuming pika has less range than the other character which is true for a majority of the cast) pika gets to in the neutral game (the other part of which is spent battling for stage control via movement and projectiles, which i'm not very good at and won't speak about), right outside where you can't react in time to your opponent's quickest approach where he has to:

run away. you can play with teasing this border/baiting with a good DD game. not as good against faster characters like fox sheik falcon who can close the gap.

wd back. good since pika kinda sucks with his back to the opponent minus upair oos mostly

shield. generally not the best option but an important one to consider

spot dodge/prepare to CCC. ...not gonna say plain "no" because that crushes creativity but easily the most situational and therefore least common action

throw out a defensive attack (keep in mind offense can be the best defense and vice versa, by advancing your defense to a threatening position you are also attacking). on the scale of "don't know what opponent is going to do" to "perfect read," these are the best attacks to be mixed up based on a bunch of different factors: dtilt/ftilt/jab aren't very punishable but don't have much payoff besides damage and interruption, dsmash (has more endlag but a higher payoff plus great priority)/upair (if you read their jump it can beat them before their aerial comes out) are punished easier but lead to more stuff, fsmash/upsmash have great payoff but need a pretty damn good read or you get ****ed, and then you need a perfect read for grab lol.

throw out an offensive attack, aka approaching. sh/fh nair good against grounded and aerial chars, sh/fh fair more against more aerial based chars, dash attack is garbage until a very high percent, grab pretty much have to bait a laggy move, and then there's always the running upsmash we love to go for. fh overshoot thunder is interesting lol it's a decent escape at FD if you're backed into a corner because the wall it creates last longer than a lot of people think. but yeah you guys know what you need to do once you actually get in

what separates good players from bad ones is that they can integrate all these options seamlessly and use multiple combinations of them simultaneously to cover the most options and adapt to their opponent's playstyle the best while remaining unpredictable themselves

sorry if all of this is worthless/obvious, but there are plenty of up and comers who read and don't post and could use some of this, and idk writing it down and intellectualizing it helps me understand pika better. this started as a simple ftilt celebration lol well there's some of my general pikachu philosophy. let me know if any of it is blatantly wrong, etc.
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
Unless combo'd into, I like to think of Ftilt as Pikachu's defensive move. It's pretty disjointed, stays out for a long time, and stops most approaches (and even clanks with high priority ground attacks like Marth Fsmash :)) Unless I'm combing into an Ftilt, I usually only use Ftilt for people to run into, and it's a pretty safe move.

Dtilt can be used more offensively as well as defensively, but it doesn't have the same priority that Ftilt does, and you can't angle it upwards and it doesn't stay out nearly as long. However, I still use Dtilt a lot more just cuz it's a good move to try to force your way in towards your opponent if you're just looking to approach or be more aggressive.


BTW


I'm not sure how many of you guys knew this already, but I've never done it before until last night. I always had a strong feeling Pikachu could do this but I just never actually tried doing it until yesterday haha.

Pikachu can go all the way under battlefield by himself and make it to the other side without dying :p For some reason I feel like I should've already known that but I just never actually attempted it enough to be successful until now haha. You just stand on one of the side platforms, full jump and charge your forward B, release it at the right time, and you'll be able to up-b safely on the other side of the stage if you get enough distance :) Awesomeawesomeawesomeawesome
 

sulliman1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
45
Location
Virginia
is there ever a reason to combo into ftilt as opposed to something else? i don't doubt that there is but i can't imagine too many scenarios where ftilt is the only option or a decent mixup besides like drastically getting them to DI it really bad at high percents because it's unexpected-->edgeguard maybe. probably because i'm not good. please explain, no rush?
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
It doesn't happen too often, but sometimes after you hit someone with a SHFFL nair, they'll be in a position where a usmash won't be quick enough to combo. The scenario I'm thinking of is basically when they're at a somewhat mid/low percent, and after you land on the ground from your Nair, they're above/in front of you. If you go for a Usmash, their hitstun will end in time for them to jump out and it won't combo. So instead you can go for an upwards angled Ftilt =) Not exactly powerful, but it adds damage and puts you in an advantaged position in relation to your opponent.

Also, sometimes even if I can combo into a Usmash, I still like chosing Ftilt over Usmash against Fox/Falco if we're next to an edge so I can go for an edgeguard.


:phone:
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
ftilt is a beast move (with pichu too). so good for edgeguarding. especially for pichu a lot of the time since they can SDI my fsmash :(
but when playing kind of worse opponent or somebody who dun't DI good, I prefer fsmash because its out for awhile and kills a lot faster (on most stages, a well placed fsmash can send falco far enough to prevent him from recovering at like 30%). its also really easy to intercept a fox/falco's upB with fsmash when they are under the stage, but ftilt is definitely safer and it doesn't hurt me so yey :D
I like fsmash more while they are at lower percent though. at higher percent, ftilt is the *****.

aside from being a great edgeguard/gimping tool, ftilt sets up some stuff nicely. Its got high priority, comes out fast, and has a ******** looking hitbox that is really nice. it will mess up people's approaches sometimes and lets you start pressuring them (I believe axe said this)
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
Uploaded a few matches from a while back. Should record some more next tourny i go to.
Sorry for the lack of audio and occasional lag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-unaH0hceA -Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIGkl6CS0Kg -Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8jnFOMaNc -Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1DvXsp0Jx8 -Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPo16Xz_UAk -Falco w/ Amazing accordion action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-jDU7cMTzQ -Falco(originally wasn't gonna upload this one because of all the lag at the end, but i really like that first combo) :B
BTW I watched 3 out of the 6 matches lol ^^ Lovin' the Pika man :)
 

N64

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
2,158
Location
Stalking Skler
My pikachu guide is up. At least the first third of it. It's over there *points to Pikachu forum*. I still have to do the matchups section, but that will come character-by-character. But that is what I need to ask you guys! Which matchups do you want to see done first? I'm assuming fox/falco/shiek will be first requests, but let me know which of all the matchups you guys most want to see and I'll try to do them in order of demand. At the moment I have Pichu done (lol) because he was the first on my old matchups thread.
 

soju

SD God
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
Being a Scrub
its WIP still. . . he needs to know who everyone wants a matchup done on first to get the biggies out of the way

and thx axe :3
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
I agree with Doc/Luigi ^ maybe Mario too. The 3 Marios are tricky when playing Pika.
Personally I'd like to see Ganon/ICs/Peach.

Also, Axe should write about the Yoshi and M2 matchup, he should know those well :D
 

ILoveKe$sha

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
75
Location
Knoxville, TN
Okay so I have a question about Pickachu. Why isn't he top tier? I mean he has beast combos and gimps and a really good recovery, why isn't he?
 

Sapphire Dragon

Smash Master
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
4,789
Location
Let go of the scars that define you.
NNID
SapphireRyu
3DS FC
3351-4374-1516
Switch FC
SW-2172-6976-4896
I was never competitive with Melee Pika but I have (and still) mained him for several years, ever since my mom got me Melee when I was like 10. I'll just guestimate here.

It's probably because of his speed and general moderate weight yet he's easily KO'd. Fox (and Shiek?) are faster than him, Marth has a longer range, a bunch of his attacks can be absorbed or reflected, and he doesn't have QAC. All of these things combined make him low-mid tier.
 

N64

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
2,158
Location
Stalking Skler
Guess I'll do doc, luigi, then sheik. Tentative agenda.

Also there's a bunch of stuff, but Pikachu is mainly low tier because his of his somewhat low damage output, lowish range, and lack of approach options. He has trouble getting in on a lot of people, and some characters punish him pretty hard.
 
Top Bottom