Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[Mormon Mammoth]

I only use bair when I play jiggs. And then I use it a lot.

 

[FourStar]

bair is hard to pull out for me. its one move where i don't know where it can be used

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

It's good as an aerial mixup to keep from being stale, but it's used better on some characters than others.

 

[oukd]

its been 8 months since i went all pika at a tourney and i decided to try it today at a small local event...my pika is not looking very good anymore so i dont think ill be using him in tourney for a good while. (unless something magical happens to change my mind)

ill still be posting here though <_<

 

[FourStar]

its been 8 months since i went all pika at a tourney and i decided to try it today at a small local event...my pika is not looking very good anymore so i dont think ill be using him in tourney for a good while. (unless something magical happens to change my mind)

ill still be posting here though <_<

you should pika just as a secondary :D

 

[oukd]

he's been my secondary for the last 3 years lol
ive only been a pika main for like 3 months before switching to falco

the thing is, there was a long period where i would enter events with pika since he was almost on par with my falco...but its been so long since ive focused on pika that my falco is just 20 times better than my pika now, and entering events with pika just gets me crushed lol

 

[FourStar]

he's been my secondary for the last 3 years lol
ive only been a pika main for like 3 months before switching to falco

the thing is, there was a long period where i would enter events with pika since he was almost on par with my falco...but its been so long since ive focused on pika that my falco is just 20 times better than my pika now, and entering events with pika just gets me crushed lol

make sure to work with him more then

 

[oukd]

i dunno about that lol

im a lot less focused on melee nowadays because of other priorities, and putting in less effort for more gains with falco just makes more sense with my current schedule. if my time opens up ill probably focus more on pika since i really like how he plays. but like...the effort required with falco isnt even remotely comparable

even during my terrible 'just spam tech' phase, my falco quickly surpassed my pika and has gotten me farther than all of the pika knowledge + theorybros i tried to cram. i actually read through this *entire* thread when i just started learning and constantly kept trying out new stuff, and that was the only thing that helped my pika keep up with my autopilot falco. i had text files just full of random pika improvement ideas/theorybros but almost nothing for falco. with falco i just learned some tech in a week and picked up random stuff i saw if i thought it was cool...it's just so much easier. pretty sure the same thing is happening with my fox too

 

[Captain Smuckers]

i dunno about that lol

im a lot less focused on melee nowadays because of other priorities, and putting in less effort for more gains with falco just makes more sense with my current schedule. if my time opens up ill probably focus more on pika since i really like how he plays. but like...the effort required with falco isnt even remotely comparable

even during my terrible 'just spam tech' phase, my falco quickly surpassed my pika and has gotten me farther than all of the pika knowledge + theorybros i tried to cram. i actually read through this *entire* thread when i just started learning and constantly kept trying out new stuff, and that was the only thing that helped my pika keep up with my autopilot falco. i had text files just full of random pika improvement ideas/theorybros but almost nothing for falco. with falco i just learned some tech in a week and picked up random stuff i saw if i thought it was cool...it's just so much easier. pretty sure the same thing is happening with my fox too

pikachu isn't good

 

[AXE 09]

Sounds to me like you just might be more compatible with Falco...

For me, Pikachu came pretty naturally. Even though I played a bunch of other characters, Pikachu was always my best. I didn't have to try to force him to be my best, he just was. I think it just has to do with how well you sync with a character.

 

[oukd]

thats a good way of putting it. i think the reason i i was better initially with pika because he didnt have to deal with getting 02d'd as much, but the more i played falco the more i found a "flow" with him and the less that posed as a problem.

plus, people were unfamiliar with the pika mu so that would randomly give me the edge in a lot of matches for a while, but i think my falco is at the point where that edge isnt going to be as helpful...

idk. maybe im just salty about my last tourney performance and getting disillusioned by my pika's skill lol <_<

@smuckers i still dont think pika is bad lol. he's in "aight" tier at the very least

 

[N64]

I started playing pika to be a special snowflake.

I kept playing pika because he's honestly my best character. And he's a ton of fun.

I agree that different people just mesh with or understand different characters better.

 

[FourStar]

People play characters either cuz they really like the character or because they like how good they play with that character. people who play character cuz they are supposedly "good" are typically not that good... at least in melee

 

[oukd]

youd be surprised how many good players started with a high tier because the character was good, and still main that character
(although that could just be a coincidence. who knows)
either way this is getting a little sidetracked...lets talk about pika stuff

what do you guys think about crossup nair on shield into utilt instead of rising uair?
looking at the frames, utilt will actually be more likely to come out earlier, there's less lag, more shieldstun (since it damages more), you stay grounded so people will have difficulty counterhitting you...iunno, it just seems like it can be a good option
i suppose the downside is that cc'ing utilt is easier (can cc at twice as much %) meaning it can only be used vs higher %'s. and that its range might be a little smaller, so it might give the opponent a closer space to hit you oos (although this is countered by the lag advantage)

 

[N64]

I like utilt as an option occasionally, but I generally just like the position rising uair puts me in better. If they shield the nair->utilt, I don't really like my options against most chars. If they stay shielding i can utilt or uair again and try to catch them jumping, or i can dash away -> dash back -> option. It feels kinda slow though, as the opponent gets to move out of shield before my utilt ends. Most chars can't punish me directly for this, but they can get away or get in a better position. If I uair instead, they have to worry about me potentially coming back down with a nair or another uair, and they risk going into the air in order to chase after me.

I think it's a viable option, but i think uair will more often be useful.

 

[FourStar]

Uair is always a good option to set up for combos for me. i usually follow an uair with another one and depending on the opponent 's DI i got into another uair, a dair, or a nair

 

[oukd]

@N64 the fact that opponents can move oos before your utilt ends also applies to uair, and theoretically you actually have more time to catch people after utilt than rising uair even though it doesn't feel that way...at least looking at the frames and lag it seems that way. idk im gonna try it out next time i play

also, the opponent risking going into the air is by virtue of you risking going in the air in the first place. if you don't take the risk and stay grounded they might not be as willing to go in the air, but at the same time you get to stay grounded which is a pretty big plus as pika

i agree that it's positionally awkward though. rising uair to falling nair creates a bracket of hitboxes above/below the shield which works well psychologically, while after utilt there's no falling hitbox to catch people jumping away or something (although you could do a rising uair and it might catch people in time). uair is also a little easier to combo off of since they're in the air with you...this is also the reason i dont use sh rising uair as much as fh rising uair

edit - did some testing, the range on utilt's hitbox from behind pika is miserable. im gonna drop this idea lol
kinda like turnaround utilt tho, more range and looks funny

 

[N64]

Yeah, you're probably right on the frame data. I suppose my main issue with it is the position it puts you in. I do definately use it more often in fights where I don't really want to be in the air right behind the char (i.e. sheik), but I rarely end up getting much out of it. It does put them in a bad spot if they do get hit, even if you can't successfully combo off it.

On a related note, what i do like doing occasionally is nairing through someone's shield, and then turning around and utilting. It is so slow and awkward-looking that it can catch people who don't know what you're doing, or think you're trying to turn->grab. The last hitbox of utilt is probably my favorite hitbox of utilt.

 

[FourStar]

so lately i have been messing around with pika's QA to the ledges but i'm so confused on how to ledge cancel. can someone help me please?

 

[oukd]

there's a specific distance from where your upb will cancel off edges. if you want to see it, go to dreamland, go to the side platform, go all the way to the inner edge of the side platform, jump, and upb cancel off the other side of the top platform. you have to try finding the distances though. you can get it from the ground on battlefield (up>side off top plat), and on ys i think (45' diagonal>side off top plat)

good luck at evo axe

 

[defsithe]

logged into smashboards for the first time in a long time to say axe just made me super happy 8 stocking that peach on stream

 

[FourStar]

there's a specific distance from where your upb will cancel off edges. if you want to see it, go to dreamland, go to the side platform, go all the way to the inner edge of the side platform, jump, and upb cancel off the other side of the top platform. you have to try finding the distances though. you can get it from the ground on battlefield (up>side off top plat), and on ys i think (45' diagonal>side off top plat)

good luck at evo axe

wait so the up b cancels by going into something?

 

[oukd]

edgecancelling
so yes, you go right into edges

 

[FourStar]

edgecancelling
so yes, you go right into edges

idk why but maybe i'm just directing the QA the wrong way cuz i doesn't edge cancel

 

[oukd]

axe is up 1 vs mango right now. TUNE THE *** IN
twitch.tv/srkevo3

edit: 1-1
axe if you win this i'll love and hate you at the same time lol

edit: T_T
you had it man
good work though

 

[N64]

FoD counterpick was weird! Even I, the main supporter of FoD Pikachu, found it an odd choice against spacies. Also I was surprised to see you do so many uthrows->ledgetechchase on mango (as opposed to bthrows). They seemed to work out about half the time, so it went ok. Is mango just particularly difficult to edgeguard after a bthrow? (besides the whole, mango is difficult to anything because he's mango).

Great set though. You had a lot of good conversions. You seemed a little nervous at parts, but super solid play over all. Gonna keep watchingggg... Get him back in losers axe!

Edit: Grats on getting in to top 16! Good luck axeee

Double edit: Good run axe. Dr. Mario is a jerkface.

 

[D. Disciple]

idk why but maybe i'm just directing the QA the wrong way cuz i doesn't edge cancel

Time for me to make another pika tutorial I guess

 

[AXE 09]

Ahhhhh I tried!!! It was so tough.

I chose FoD just because I knew Mango doesn't like that stage, and I didn't mind it lol.

I never really found an opportunity to Bthrow him off stage... so I went for the combos/techchases most of the time.

And fighting Doc was difficult ;_; Not sure what I should've done differently

 

[N64]

ah, that makes sense.
I hate fighting doc too.

 

[oukd]

i feel like mango would be really good with avoiding bthrow gimps anyways lol

vs shroomed i think you should've been more careful with your followups at low% since a lot of times you end up resetting instead of taking advantage. this is especially the case when it ends with him grounded into cc dsmashing...although later in the set you did do this better (finishing combos in the air, focusing on uair setups etc)

maybe if you jolted more in neutral you could get shroomed on plats without risking nair/uair approaches

vs doc (particularly shroomed) its really hard to get in on since he's really good at throwing out moves for you to run into. turtle-style pika would probably work better...iunno lol

here's the set if you want to watch it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj8Hfs-mEJ0

 

[FourStar]

Ahhhhh I tried!!! It was so tough.

I chose FoD just because I knew Mango doesn't like that stage, and I didn't mind it lol.

I never really found an opportunity to Bthrow him off stage... so I went for the combos/techchases most of the time.

And fighting Doc was difficult ;_; Not sure what I should've done differently

hey against shroomed go fox or falco! you're mad good with them and idk if you've ever tried it with shroomed cuz he plays good against pikas

 

[AXE 09]

Any of you guys see how high Pikachu is on the tier list now?? My goodness o.O

 

[oukd]

totally called it, my tier list predictions were mostly correct :D
overshot ganon/dk drops by a few chars
i didnt get anyone in the roy/zelda/gw/m2/ness range right but w/e


do you guys agree with the rise though? i think samus might be equal to pika, and doc's def higher...so i guess i agree

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I think samus should be above pika, but I don't actually think it's that big of a deal so whatever

 

[N64]

I think it makes sense these days. I consider doc, samus, and pika (and maybe ganon) in their own tier and fairly interchangeable between eachother. What really holds pika back, I think, is just a few matchups above him being awful (sheik, ICs, and to a lesser extent peach). Because of this I find it difficult to really put him ahead of doc, who does alright against high tiers and whose high tier matchups i think are less varied than pika's. I think for the duration of a tournament doc does better as a main/specialist char and pika does better as a secondary/counterpick char is what i guess i'm saying. Samus is probably in a middle ground between doc and pika as far as matchup level variety, but probably overall slightly weaker than doc across the board.

Still all close enough that I could see my opinion changing on their order over the next couple years depending on how they're played in tourneys.

 

[FourStar]

still think pikachu needs to be higher

 

[FourStar]

ok so the other day i was having trouble trying to find a good secondary for me other than fox. fox is good but i would like to have a third character. which characters are good to pick up?

 

[oukd]

1 - who do you play better with?
2- who do you have more fun with?
3 - what's more important to you?

on the other hand
if you want to pick a character that compliments pika/fox well, maybe marth/sheik/peach would be good
that way you have a spacie (strongest characters), a high-tier floaty (less getting 02d-ed), and a mid-tier (matchup advantage)

 

[N64]

what dkuo said.

Pika+fox covers most matchups pretty well (because fox covers most matchups pretty well lols). If you want a 3rd char that will help you in tourneys, try to figure out what matchups you have the most difficulty with as pikachu and fox, and find someone you enjoy playing who does well in those matchups.

 

[FourStar]

1. ok so as far who do i play better with.... that's kinda up in the air right now. pika is my main which is obvious. but as far as secondaries go my marth, fox, and falco are all pretty even i guess.

2. I love playing with the three i named: fox, falco, and marth. sometimes i play sheik bu that's me goofing around

3. i want a character who has good gimping abilities and at the same time a solid move that can lead to combos. now fox is similar to pika in the way they are very up based (utilt, usmash, uair) so i would like to use fox. however i feel like while fox is better at getting the kill, marth and falco are easier to combo with. at least for me. i like falco for his ability to shine and spike along with his great spacing with his lasers. marth is really good at combos for me and fox is a character in progress.

so that's what i got right now
oh and i like to troll with jiggs if that helps?

edit: the real reason i play pika and fox is really they were the characters i loved in SSB64. so yeah its a pride thing to give them up