i've only go to two nor cal local tournies and i'm literally the only pika main and the low tier main as well..... but good thing everyone plays spacies cuz they feel the thunder rage
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Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
neutral stuff
- cf doesn't have very good answers to crossups especially on shield. so cross up nair a bunch into etc followups/mixups
- cf is very fast, don't run into his zoning/spacing punishment with bad nairs
- at the same time don't let cf establish pressure or offense. he's better at stage control so youll want to try and keep as much control as possible to keep up
- cf really wants to stay grounded & sux above you, but watch out for sudden ff aerials (because fast fall speed) and you should be in a good position
- on that note, jolt may be able to get cf in the air but only at long distances. worth a try, jolt at long distance is pretty safe
- dont try to outprioritize his aerials unless it's your uair vs his not-dair (trading is usually fine if youre gimping though)
defense stuff
- don't get grabbed, but if you do di down/away to avoid regrab. do the same with uthrow to make followups harder
- avoid uthrow jab regrab with di down/away, sdi away on jab, buffer spotdodge on grab...or something (thinking about apex2013 axe vs hax)
- dont get caught in nair, but generally when getting naired you want to sdi 2nd hit down/away into buffer spotdodge on landing (against grab) until he mixups his followup
- when recovering vs his edgehog, if possible dont upb to a spot where he can knee you
offense stuff
- combo him like fox/falco - cgs, up attack strings into nair/bair/usmash finishers
- if you see an opportunity to put him offstage do it. his recovery sux
N64
Smash Champion
i don't like cfalcon being able to move. once he starts moving he has the chance of hitting me, and he hits so damn hard.
i usually just try to rush him down. overshoot a lot of nairs so he can't dash dance away from it. once you hit him with anything, follow him, stay below him (if possible), and don't let him have any space.
matchup is really fun imo
, if a bit scary.
i usually just try to rush him down. overshoot a lot of nairs so he can't dash dance away from it. once you hit him with anything, follow him, stay below him (if possible), and don't let him have any space.
matchup is really fun imo
, if a bit scary.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
@N64 Yea the MU is pretty fun it's just I didn't feel comfortable with the way I was playing against a cfalc.
@dkuo Thanks avoiding being grabbed is a real ***** and I had no clue the way I should Di to avoid the regrab.
@dkuo Thanks avoiding being grabbed is a real ***** and I had no clue the way I should Di to avoid the regrab.
AXE 09
Smash Master
DI diagonally down/away to avoid the regrab.
Generally, doing cross up Nairs against Falcon is awesome.
Oh and lots of grabs. Uthrow will combo into Usmash at pretty much any % lol. Unless you're under a platform, in which case you can go for platform tech chases
Generally, doing cross up Nairs against Falcon is awesome.
Oh and lots of grabs. Uthrow will combo into Usmash at pretty much any % lol. Unless you're under a platform, in which case you can go for platform tech chases
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Uthrow I kept trying Dthrow that explains a lot.
and uairs and nairs are really useful against Cfalc. my friend gets so pissed off cuz he never gets a chance to hit me when he uses Cfalc becuz of those two moves
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Uair hasn't been pulling through for me when I have been playing Falcons. So when do you use it?
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
up air is really useful after using a crossup nair. If you immediately do a rising up air after landing it covers you really well. They can't crouch cancel the up air and if they were shielding, they will likely get caught if they trying doing something out of shield. It's also obviously useful for gimping him if you get the right hitbox and it can be used to combo the crap out of falcons.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Oh! Makes sense now thanks.
indigestible_wad
Smash Lord
Captain falcon doesn't really have an option against uair imo, except a few situations. When he's in the air just start throwing it out, or when you see him start to attack.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
So what do you do against Puff? More specifically how do you get around bairs I have been having serious problems with this lately.
thats a question for AXE.
indigestible_wad
Smash Lord
Powershield upsmash everything.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Ha sounds simple enough, especially since upsmash kills Jiggs at like 40%
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
i had a really long post prepared but its gone now ~_~ time to retype i guess
if i had to guess, axe's answer would be to keep a tight dashdance close to jiggs so that you can sneak in a nair (or usmash/uair) during openings
if they're doing low WOP (wall of pain, aka bairing a lot) far away you can throw out jolts if you want. they dont tack on that much % though and it usually doesnt change the neutral game that much...jiggs can just start WOP'ing again
often if you want to punish WOP directly you'll have to nair preemptively by calling both jiggs' air movement and bairs. you can make this easier if you try to look for the jiggs' tendencies: how he weaves during bair, how many jumps he likes to do before landing, how high he likes to WOP, how he spaces bairs both distance-wise and time-wise, etc. stuff like that. patterns arent the most reliable thing though so take this with a grain of salt
keep in mind that trying to nair against WOP is pretty risky and personally id suggest against it unless you're confident in your reads. also keep in mind if jiggs can call your nair attempt they can just dj over it during WOP to completely neutralize it. you can also fire nairs from side platforms vs higher WOPs/jumping, but this limits your nair trajectory a lot and can be avoided pretty easily. again, i would suggest against nairing into a WOP...I usually wait for when the jiggs lands or goes high
trying to call when jiggs lands and doing a crossup nair then works pretty well since jiggs doesnt have the best grounded options (especially if your dashdancing is tight). keep in mind jiggs can throw out a smash attack or something similar against your nair if they see youre trying to punish landings, but this is made harder if youre close to the jiggs
you can try to trade with your usmash once jiggs is around killing % (even if its slightly lower, you could followup with thunder). dont trade with nair though lol. if youre feeling ballsy then you can try to powershield usmash but that's hard, shield usmash oos works too
for your reference:
axe vs hbox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741XSWhw0M0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaMx4-wrkw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wwkaFa6A4
(as you can probably see, playing vs good WOP'ing is pretty damn hard)
B-Air
Total: 39
Hit: 9-12
IASA: 31
Auto cancel: <8, >25
Landlag: 20
Lcanceled: 10
btw even though i suggest against punishing directly vs WOP i think it's possible to do it on reaction:
if you try to react to jiggs' foot coming out on frame 9, he has a minimum of about 20 frames of downtime, and another 5 frames of downtime before he can pull another attack out (this is assuming a perfect autocancel into a fast ground attack, which would be faster than another aerial). human reaction is around 15 frames, nair takes 4 frames to jump and 3 frames to come out for a total of 22 frames, with a few leeway frames to hit with the later hitbox. you want to look for times of lag to enter with nair.
jiggs' lag times:
lcancel takes 10 frames
autocancel takes 4 frames
jump takes 6 frames (and another 9 frames for a bair to come out)
o man i typed way too much ~_~ this alawys happens for some reason
tl;dr tight dd into nair punish vs WOP, trade w/ usmash or shield>usmash oos at higher %
if i had to guess, axe's answer would be to keep a tight dashdance close to jiggs so that you can sneak in a nair (or usmash/uair) during openings
if they're doing low WOP (wall of pain, aka bairing a lot) far away you can throw out jolts if you want. they dont tack on that much % though and it usually doesnt change the neutral game that much...jiggs can just start WOP'ing again
often if you want to punish WOP directly you'll have to nair preemptively by calling both jiggs' air movement and bairs. you can make this easier if you try to look for the jiggs' tendencies: how he weaves during bair, how many jumps he likes to do before landing, how high he likes to WOP, how he spaces bairs both distance-wise and time-wise, etc. stuff like that. patterns arent the most reliable thing though so take this with a grain of salt
keep in mind that trying to nair against WOP is pretty risky and personally id suggest against it unless you're confident in your reads. also keep in mind if jiggs can call your nair attempt they can just dj over it during WOP to completely neutralize it. you can also fire nairs from side platforms vs higher WOPs/jumping, but this limits your nair trajectory a lot and can be avoided pretty easily. again, i would suggest against nairing into a WOP...I usually wait for when the jiggs lands or goes high
trying to call when jiggs lands and doing a crossup nair then works pretty well since jiggs doesnt have the best grounded options (especially if your dashdancing is tight). keep in mind jiggs can throw out a smash attack or something similar against your nair if they see youre trying to punish landings, but this is made harder if youre close to the jiggs
you can try to trade with your usmash once jiggs is around killing % (even if its slightly lower, you could followup with thunder). dont trade with nair though lol. if youre feeling ballsy then you can try to powershield usmash but that's hard, shield usmash oos works too
for your reference:
axe vs hbox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741XSWhw0M0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaMx4-wrkw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wwkaFa6A4
(as you can probably see, playing vs good WOP'ing is pretty damn hard)
B-Air
Total: 39
Hit: 9-12
IASA: 31
Auto cancel: <8, >25
Landlag: 20
Lcanceled: 10
btw even though i suggest against punishing directly vs WOP i think it's possible to do it on reaction:
if you try to react to jiggs' foot coming out on frame 9, he has a minimum of about 20 frames of downtime, and another 5 frames of downtime before he can pull another attack out (this is assuming a perfect autocancel into a fast ground attack, which would be faster than another aerial). human reaction is around 15 frames, nair takes 4 frames to jump and 3 frames to come out for a total of 22 frames, with a few leeway frames to hit with the later hitbox. you want to look for times of lag to enter with nair.
jiggs' lag times:
lcancel takes 10 frames
autocancel takes 4 frames
jump takes 6 frames (and another 9 frames for a bair to come out)
o man i typed way too much ~_~ this alawys happens for some reason
tl;dr tight dd into nair punish vs WOP, trade w/ usmash or shield>usmash oos at higher %
N64
Smash Champion
my tactic for beating jiggs was to play sheik or young link instead.
but yeah, what dkuo said. nair and trade usmashes are good.
but yeah, what dkuo said. nair and trade usmashes are good.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Alright I was trying YL and he is a lot of fun to play so I might use him every now and the .
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Fox is a pretty common counterpick for puffs, I find. I'm also pretty sure marth and sheik are "effective" against puff, but I wouldn't necessarily call them counterpicks
i would but they are retardedly arguing about circle jerking in the fox boards and the marth boards is really confusing
AXE 09
Smash Master
I would reply, but Dkuo already said it all. Good work man
I've kinda realized that it comes down to trying to get underneath her (or close enough to her) to try to hit her when she lands. She has 5 mid-air jumps, so she has to touch the ground at least every few seconds.
By the way guys, there's a pretty large AZ tournament this Saturday that we'll be streaming, and I'll probably be on the mic a lot lol. So if you wanna check out the stream and ask any questions or just talk or wanna watch some awesome tourney matches, please stop by
I've kinda realized that it comes down to trying to get underneath her (or close enough to her) to try to hit her when she lands. She has 5 mid-air jumps, so she has to touch the ground at least every few seconds.
By the way guys, there's a pretty large AZ tournament this Saturday that we'll be streaming, and I'll probably be on the mic a lot lol. So if you wanna check out the stream and ask any questions or just talk or wanna watch some awesome tourney matches, please stop by
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Thanks I will be sure to check out the stream and good luck. I have been doing better against Puff recently so thanks for the advice guys
Hey good job finally beating Wobbles! :DI would reply, but Dkuo already said it all. Good work man
I've kinda realized that it comes down to trying to get underneath her (or close enough to her) to try to hit her when she lands. She has 5 mid-air jumps, so she has to touch the ground at least every few seconds.
By the way guys, there's a pretty large AZ tournament this Saturday that we'll be streaming, and I'll probably be on the mic a lot lol. So if you wanna check out the stream and ask any questions or just talk or wanna watch some awesome tourney matches, please stop by
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Axe you still suck..
Thanks for housing me and SmurfyEXE.. <3
and good job nubcake
Thanks for housing me and SmurfyEXE.. <3
and good job nubcake
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Do you have a Video link for this I missed seeing this match and now I want to.
AXE 09
Smash Master
Thank you!!! (Screw you Tim lol)
I was so freakin nervous omg, but so happy after I won. This win meant a lot to me, although I didn't use Pikachu even once. I went mostly Fox lol. But here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-gx4b0fwkQ
I was so freakin nervous omg, but so happy after I won. This win meant a lot to me, although I didn't use Pikachu even once. I went mostly Fox lol. But here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-gx4b0fwkQ
N64
Smash Champion
traitor!
jk good job! robbles is so good at the game.
jk good job! robbles is so good at the game.
AXE 09
Smash Master
Wobbles always does so well vs my Pika =(
But I did use Pikachu in some other sets lol. Here's some Pikachu action for you guys
Axe vs. Maxxxpower
Axe vs. V3ctorman
But I did use Pikachu in some other sets lol. Here's some Pikachu action for you guys
Axe vs. Maxxxpower
Axe vs. V3ctorman
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
That venue looks so crowded...
Nice games as always your Pika is too good.
Nice games as always your Pika is too good.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
You can do a pseudo CG on spaces using up throw
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
its not pseudo, it's guaranteed also on falcon
remember to jumpcancel your grabs
they can di around though so platforms may interrupt. but you can techchase on platforms if they try escaping there. also they may di offstage in which case you should focus on a gimp/edgeguard
you can pseudo cg with fthrow if the opponent doesn't react to it well
also on falconremember to jumpcancel your grabs
they can di around though so platforms may interrupt. but you can techchase on platforms if they try escaping there. also they may di offstage in which case you should focus on a gimp/edgeguard
you can pseudo cg with fthrow if the opponent doesn't react to it well
AXE 09
Smash Master
Oh the venue was a lot bigger than it looks in the video lol. You're just looking at a small portion of the venue. We had about 40 people with like 15 setups.
And yes, Pikachu can chaingrab Fox, Falco, and Falcon on FD very well. Just make sure you Jump Cancel grab when you chase their DI