Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[FourStar]

Personally would you still stay Pika against IC's or would you recommend switching to a secondary?

Personally i think the Sheik MU is hard ONLY when you have no understanding of her. After that its just realizing to space a little against sheik and take advantage of any mistakes (personally)

Also, i feel like my worst MU's are IC's and Doc, THEN Sheik. other than that are there any other troublesome MU's?

 

[N64]

character selection is up to you. ICs do suffer from having a few really bad matchups, so if you want to pick up peach or jiggs or something for them then that's viable.

As far as pika's troublesome matchups, the top 6 are probably: sheik, ICs, peach, jiggs, dr.mario, and mario (but who plays mario these days). Good spacies are pretty tough, and I personally hate fighting marth, but the rest of the cast (unless I'm forgetting someone) should be pretty manageable.

 

[AXE 09]

I like to go Young Link or spacies vs IC's (Wobbles), but it still depends. How much Pikachu experience they have is a huge factor to consider. Everybody knows how to fight against spacies. Peach is always a good pick vs them, but I would only recommend her if you have plenty of experience in the matchup. If you miss a Dsmash, that's a free grab for them which could mean death for you.

Also, I agree with N64's list of hardest matchups for Pika

 

[FourStar]

personally i don't have trouble playing peach because nor cal peaches aren't too good .

and for the IC's MU i hate going in pika so i decided to move to fox or falco in that MU. but who would you recommend? i use falco more if that helps

 

[ChivalRuse]

Why would anyone play Jiggs vs ICs? It's not a favorable matchup for Jiggly xD

 

[N64]

i dunno man. i just play the pika and the chu. My sources must be outdated.

 

[AXE 09]

wobbles tells me that falco is slightly harder for ic's than fox is, but i personally do better as fox vs ic's (even though my falco is better than my fox).



i have a question actually...

so earlier today, i was playing friendlies vs a marth, and we were on yoshi's. i was at a very low percent, and he fthrew me, and i instantly collided with the floor. so i ended up in knockdown state instantly, kinda like being down thrown by fox/falco. it's the first time i've ever seen this happen, and idk what caused it. have any of you guys seen this before?

and sorry for no capital letters. the phone that i have right now is weird. i feel awkward not capitalizing things lol

 

[FourStar]

wobbles tells me that falco is slightly harder for ic's than fox is, but i personally do better as fox vs ic's (even though my falco is better than my fox).



i have a question actually...

so earlier today, i was playing friendlies vs a marth, and we were on yoshi's. i was at a very low percent, and he fthrew me, and i instantly collided with the floor. so i ended up in knockdown state instantly, kinda like being down thrown by fox/falco. it's the first time i've ever seen this happen, and idk what caused it. have any of you guys seen this before?

and sorry for no capital letters. the phone that i have right now is weird. i feel awkward not capitalizing things lol

No you're not crazy that has happened to me a lot actually lol. IDK what it is but it happens at random

 

[ye25]

Do you guys have any tips for sweetspotting with quick attack.
Like angles that you guys think are easier to sweetspot with?

 

[GimR]

so if you guys have been following vgbc, gimr has been speedrunning adventure mode very hard with falco. this was his latest video http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/c/2941037

i decided to take some of his things and incorporate it into a pika run, and ended up beating his record http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDhQucpWks

now gimr is thinking about going pika for his runs
https://twitter.com/VGBC_GimR/status/380384286269911040
https://twitter.com/VGBC_GimR/status/380352216030134273

you guys should join in on these goofy speedrun attempts :D lol

I think Falco is fastest over all. It's just gonna take a ridiculous amount of work T.T

 

[FourStar]

I think Falco is fastest over all. It's just gonna take a ridiculous amount of work T.T

thanks to you posting now i know what Gimr finally means

 

[oukd]

I think Falco is fastest over all. It's just gonna take a ridiculous amount of work T.T

but doc's upb 1-shotting pokemon

and i beat my pika time with falco lol

 

[FourStar]

so what is the number one key thing to going in with the nair? cuz lately i have been trouble going in with a SHFFL nair. especially against Doc and spacies.

 

[oukd]

you can wait for the opponent to commit before nairing, but good opponents won't just give you free nairs like that

if there's a number 1 thing...itd probably be making sure you aren't giving away your nair, ie your ground movement isnt predictable before the nair etc. i used to always wd back before nairing and that always got me terrible results with people who caught on. thats also part of the reason axe's dtilt>nairs work so well since it interrupts his ground movement for a moment, catching people offguard (also dtilt can hit them etc but thats another part of it). the less your opponent can predict a nair the more likely you can launch nairs without eating huge punishes (so even if you trade it won't be the worst thing ever)

also, launching a nair at a closer range usually has better outcomes, or at least it's usually safer once it launches from a closer range. the closer you start a nair the harder it is for them to react/zone/avoid in general, you're more likely to hit with a stronger hitbox that way, and you can worry a little less about timing your nair to be early/late since they'll usually be in hit range earlier. on the flipside getting that close with pika before nairing is kind of tricky since your range is kind of bad

lastly, hope you arent about to be zoned, because getting your nairs zoned over and over feels awful and nairing against good turtle-styled walling is painful lmao

 

[N64]

Going to agree mostly with dkuo. The most important thing with nair is probably to make it difficult to predict and/or react to. Pikachu's nair is alright for getting in, but it's not an amazing aerial by itself. It doesn't beat much, do good damage, or have a great range. Much of what makes it good is pikachu's speed allows him to use it in situations that forces the opponent to have to predict it (not just react to it) in order to counter it.

You don't need to rely on it to get in, which i suspect is what's happening. Make your opponent aware of your dtilt, dash->jc.grab/usmash, jolts, occasional fsmash, etc. If they're just watching for when you're going to nair in, it's unlikely nair will be successful. If they feel they have to watch for many things, it's more likely that you'll get in when you do nair.

 

[FourStar]

yeah i think i really need to work on my movement that's all. like my dashdashing is godawful right now since i started school. but once i get my dashdancing back i should be ok with the nair.

also with wavedashing, when is it most applicable cuz i never wavedashing except for when i like to fake out the opponent

 

[oukd]

i cant really make a concrete list of wavedash uses, rather i think its better knowing exactly what wavedashing does and using it when you think it's appropriate. remember that -

1. you can wavedash any time you are grounded and have the option to jump (most notably out of dash, run, shield)
2. there's a few frames of commitment for it (10 frames? not sure)
3. it's excellent for fine-tuning your position (you scoot a little bit)
4. it's excellent for when you want to reset to standing animation (most notably out of dash, run, shield) (options out of standing are generally more diverse and useful than options out of dashing/running/shielding)
5. you can keep your standing orientation (left/right) out of wavedash. important in context of what moves you want to use in what position (hint rising uair)

a few specific things i suggest you use wavedashes for more are -

1. shield > block > wavedash out of shield > punish
2. dash in > wavedash back > observe reaction > keep in mind, reset
3. dash in > wavedash forward > observe reaction > keep in mind, reset
4. wavedash ledgehog when you're close enough (faster than upb)
5. wavedash under attacks (most notably med/high lasers)
6. initial dash > early wavedash (allows for options out of standing animation earlier than initial dash > run > crouch)

 

[Mormon Mammoth]

Wavedashing is all about spacing. I started wavedashing most when facing against one of my friend's marth. Whenever I foresee a move that would just barely hit me, I can use a wavedash to avoid getting hit entirely. You mainly use wavedashing to move just enough to allow for perfect spacing/avoiding moves.

(Didnt have dkuo's post when i posted this. So... what he said)

 

[Lawrencelot]

Hey guys I'm feeling like playing Pikachu in a tournament tomorrow but I haven't played him much in melee (my main is Sheik). I've played pikachu a lot in SSB64 but in melee it's all very different. So I got some quick questions:

how do you spike with upB? Does it depend on timing, the part of the tail, or where you hit your opponent?
If you want to upB into the ledge, do you have to let go of the control stick like you have to do with Bowser or Sheik?
How good are fair and bair really? I mostly use the other aerials, but which situations would call for a fair or bair?
I see a fast shffled nair as the best approach of pika. How do you approach other fast chars with good nairs? (i.e. fox)

 

[oukd]

spike with upB? upB doesn't really spike but you can gimp them just by hitting them sometimes. not guaranteed though esp if they react
i think you meant upA, in which case: http://smashboards.com/threads/ask-about-pikachu-hosted-by-axe-and-n64.240209/page-20#post-9542242

upB into ledge you do have to release

fair and bair are very situational imo. i rarely use either. fair for some extra reach if im edgeguarding something thats pretty much dead, bair if i see an opening (since it's unexpected for the most part). and some other finnicky stuff for both moves that are very situation-specific i guess. for the most part i don't use them but use your judgment if you feel they're appropriate

approaching faster characters with nairs you really have to close in on them. take their space by threatening with dashdance/tilts/other attacks/etc. before nairing. ideally before nairing, you'd like to be close to them and the amount of space they have to retreat would be limited

 

[FourStar]

LOL Thanks Dkuo for explaining everything to me :D please come to california sometime! We should play

 

[Lawrencelot]

Thanks dkuo! And yes I meant spike with upA. The tournament where I'm going to banned pokemon stadium and final destination, with only the four other regular stages so I think I would be at a disadvantage with pika but still I'm going to try him a few matches

 

[oukd]

ps isnt a huge hit imo. then again i dont think about ps all that often
fd is a double edged sword. on one hand you get to cg ff'ers, on the other you get cg'd by other characters. so...you're probably fine with the 4 regulars

lmao i just noticed the title change now. thanks n64 ~_~

 

[Captain Smuckers]

dkuo too good

 

[N64]

You end up giving out more information than probably me or axe these days, so seemed a sensible addition!

dkuo too good indeed.

edit: how'd your tourney go Lawrencelot?

 

[oukd]

wanted to make this video like a year ago but never got around to it until now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ5MmPj13ts

not super comprehensive. just wanted to get the idea out there

 

[AXE 09]

I actually never realized Pikachu could do that lol. Thank you for posting that vid =)
I seriously want to get a new computer and some recording equipment to start uploading vids again

 

[FourStar]

As soon as you do get that computer i wanna see video of you playing with a camera of your hands. I've always wanted to see how players do certain things by looking at their hands

 

[oukd]

anyone watching bh3?

pikachad vs m2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NroPH4owFD8

pikachad vs pp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E06_VGfcaXY

 

[Hawt Salsa]

I'm thinking of maining pikachu, but I have one question.

When the hell do I jab?

 

[AXE 09]

OMG Chad you did so freakin good vs M2K!!!!!! You can actually take him out if you're on point, I know you can!

When to Jab? Besides doing awesome jab resets, you can jab by the ledge. Even if your opponent is on the ledge and shields it, it'll push them off, and the jabs can come out so fast that they hit your opponent before they have time to grab the ledge.

It's also my "panic" move, since it comes out on frame 2. Kinda replaces shine as a panic move, as sort of a "get away from me" move.

Careful jabbing Marth though, because his grab range is longer than your jab range, so they can grab you once your jabs stop connecting.

 

[FourStar]

Is there a time when u-tilt is more appropriate than uair? I was messing around and found that utilt is damn good when comboing across the stage.

 

[Hawt Salsa]

Thanks Axe! Its really intimidating to ask you advice, but what are some tips about using Pikachu's projectile? I cant really find any use for it.

 

[AXE 09]

I actually like using Utilt after a an approaching Nair now, because it combos pretty nicely =) You can get another SH Nair in there and continue the combo. I personally don't use it much unless it's in the middle of a combo, but I think it's actually decent after a crossup Nair, since it comes out just as fast a rising Uair would.

Pikachu's thunderjolt is pretty good to approach with when you're far away from your opponent. You can do a running full jump thunderjolt and run with it, as sort of a thunderjolt shield. Most people react to it by either shielding it, attacking through it, or jumping over it.

If they shield it, you can get a free grab. If they attack through it, you can fade back a bit before the thunderjolt reaches them and punished their whiffed attack, and if they jump over it, that's your chance to get under them and attack with a Uair to juggle them.

The thing is, you kind of have to predict which one they're going to do. I notice that players usually default to one of those three options all the time. So if they shield it the first time, they're likely to shield again the next time. So you can predict it and counter with a grab right as the thunderjolt hits their shield.

 

[oukd]

you know how when opponents do that really far away dd and you're trying to sneak in an approach but the opponent's walling everything out? esp vs marth/fox where if you sh its very easy to wall off and your grounded approach is also easy to react to since they're faster

empty sh > perfect waveland covers a HUGE DISTANCE from your jump point and nobody expects that huge waveland lol
and you can do anything out of it like dtilt or grab or w/e

i guess it sounds kind of gimmicky though, but you have some pretty mixups out of sh obviously. there are some mixups on the waveland itself too - you can do jump variations by using backwards sh, or deciding to use fastfall or not. also you can mixup the waveland itself with backwards perfect waveland, or normal waveland, or just land, or nair before hitting the ground. so you still have options n junk i guess

iono how well itll work, just something to think about i want to use this huge waveland more so ive been trying to come up with ideas
ill try it out next week on people if they do that faraway dd against me i guess

 

[FourStar]

why dkuo just why..... :'(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkTRhkvSKOQ

 

[FourStar]

Ok so i was watching the documentary i realized how many people were using the c stick for stuff. Is there time (in general or personally) where c stick is used for pikachu? I would think falling Uair but is that it?

 

[oukd]

i use it for all the aerials lol

but sometimes i also use control stick + a

 

[.K1]

I know this isnt pikachu specific, but I saw Axe tech a grounded shine from Fox.......I tried doing this and wasnt able to do it once. Is there something in particular that I need to do? Is it something that I can do reliably/practically in matches? Do I need to DI a particular direction or something? Halp?

 

[AXE 09]

I mainly use Cstick if I want to Uair and Fastfall at the same time, or for CC smash attacks, or for ASDI techs!

To tech Fox's shine while you're grounded, press L/R BEFORE you get hit by the shine. If you're not in the lag of anything, you'll just shield. But if you're in any sort of lag (from doing any move, or if you're getting hit by Fox's Dair and he's about to L-cancel into a shine), you'll tech. You can hold the control stick left/right to tech roll, or not hold any direction to tech in place (you'll still slide a bit though).