Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[iRobinhoood]

I read somewhere that Doc has the second worst recovery in the game next to Roy. Anyone have a source? Or can confirm?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Roys goes further, but is worse because he falls fast and only has 1 option.

 

[iRobinhoood]

 

[oukd]

i dont think the mu is that bad but it is def in doc's favor when both players have equal mu understanding. doc has ++priority/cg>fsmash or other things/actually has a solid chance of edgeguarding you with cape

playing vs doc is kind of like playing against a mini ganon-marth hybrid from bizzaroland, so it's a little difficult when doc is on the defensive. the main thing he has on pika imo is an easier time spacing/poking vs pika coupled with his big fast wd/dd game that gives him a lot of stage control

there are pretty good guides on both the doc and pika boards for this specific mu

 

[DerfMidWest]

Its haaaaard. I hate that MU.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I read somewhere that Doc has the second worst recovery in the game next to Roy. Anyone have a source? Or can confirm?

Ness, Roy, Kirby, Bowser, and DK all have worse recoveries than Doc IMHO.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'll settle for 5th, but I'm only creating a reason to ****** about why I lost a match.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You should complain about his range tbh. You have a stronger case there.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think DK's recovery is a tad bit better.
But other than that I agree.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I feel his range is pretty decent actually lol. Maybe just me, that jab, awesomenesss.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Doc has crap range.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Pikachu boards for most active, I swear. It's awesome. Doc's jab > Pika's grab =p

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yes it is. But pika can infinte people into walls.

 

[AXE 09]

^Only if he's touching another wall or an edge though lol.

Doc is super tough

Not for Chad though

 

[DerfMidWest]

Stadium is a thing, silly Axeman

 

[iRobinhoood]

Pika jab infinites in 2v1's

That feeeeel.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

^ I love doin that lol. The reason you think that doc's range is even remotely good is because you're used to pikachu, silly. Also yeah, what the hell? Why is the pika board only active when we're talking about other characters? I know there are only like 4 of us, one of which is a pichu for god's sakes (lol), but this board is uber dead. We should aspire to become the falco boards :D

 

[N64]

pika boards are best boards

 

[DerfMidWest]

This may infact be the chillest board.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

Well it's mad chill obviously, but like nobody posts here lol.

Anyway, I was doin a stream last night so if any of you wanna look at the footage be my guest. I guess if you see any super amazingly terribly bad habits let me know. Just keep in mind that it was like 4 am and we were both very tired lol.

I start playing pika at like 1:15:00
http://www.twitch.tv/smokeybluntz/b/333957059

also vanir I hear you've been trash talking my friend smokey which I find hilarious. For a while he was like really bothered, it was amazing lol.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Lol. I wasn't really talking trash, but Kai takes everything I say out of context when he tells other people.

He's challenged me to like 50 mms, even though I'm probably not gonna go to any NY tournies for awhile xD

If you want to tell smokey what actually happened:

Spoiler

Kai sent me a bunch of PMs about how he was gonna body me and so on and then sent me a video of his falco, i responded telling him he was a scrub and I would 4 stock his *** all day
Then he asked me what I thought of smokey (posting a few other videos of him) and I said he was alright, but I didn't think he was on my level yet, kai relayed this to smokey as "vanir said you suck"

So yea. I still wanna **** smokey though, because Kai has been hyping him up

 

[oukd]

@Smuckers - I'll watch some...granted I'm not that good but w/e

• You might already know this (especially as a former Falco main) but a trick for di'ing against cgs is to di in a way where it's very ambiguous to the other player to know where to grab, usually so that you fall around the center of the opponent looks like you already know this but i'll leave it here anyways
• The main thing I'd like to point out is that the guy you're playing shields a lot whenever he thinks he's vulnerable (ie after whiffing/knockback/etc) so don't try to force your attempts to catch his movements oos too much with weird pika shield pressure, that's reserved for spacies lol...simply waiting outside of shield (ie stand, walk, dd, etc) after hitting it yields a reaction much more effectively than the strage utilt shield pressure you were using lol (one reason why crossup nair is so good) or you could just grab i suppose
• Sick reverse spike on the wizard foot lol
• And then you get hit by 4 of them in a row...
• Try finishing more uairs with dair at lower %'s, a lot of times using a nair finish at low % gives your opponent a free hit because there's less hitstun than nair ending lag, plus sometimes it can set up for more comboing. I don't think you got punished for it though so eh...
• On that note use dair more in general. Near the end of the almost JV4 match there were several points where ending your combos in dair/using dair in general would have set up edgeguarding/made it easier
• Sometimes you don't sweetspot when the opponent has no way of edgeguarding it which I found odd, but i guess it could boil down to awkward angles
• Do you guys have a no edgehog rule in friendlies? The lack of edgehogging is kind of funny <_< esp when the ganon couldn't have possibly made the stage
• You shouldn't be eating ganon fairs out of dd so you could work on dd'ing...then again 4am johns I guess

you play Pika kind of similar to how I play him, minus the goofy shield pressure. interesting
can't tell if you're better or worse than me though


On a side note, I started practicing up+B regrab without zips...it's pretty useful.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Ganon's recovery is balls and should be a free kill for you if he's bellow the stage.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

@vanir: yeah kai is ridiculous lol. You aren't going to rom though?

@dkuo:
thanks a lot for the advice, I don't remember using uptilt that often though..... I like never use it, I dunno. I use to use up air downair, dunno why I stopped/didn't do it yesterday but whatever. Oh and about the edgehogging thing, those matches were in no way the most serious matches ever lol, we were both tired so we didn't really bother edgehogging or playing as rigidly as we normally would. I'm not trying to say that I don't do tons of the stupid things I did in the videos normally, but I was sleepy D:
Anyway, we just bought the recording setup so we're very eager to use it, I'm sure I'll be recording again within like a week. I guess we'll have to see who is better at rom :O!

Also what do you mean regrab without zips o_o?

 

[oukd]

I'm going Falco for RoM though but perhaps we can play Pika dittos or we could play Pika vs Falco back and forth. It's rare for Pika players play the Pika matchup from the other side

Regrab without zips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24QWZL298g&t=1m15s
Iunno what to call it. QA stalling?

 

[Captain Smuckers]

We don't need to play in bracket lol, in fact i'd rather that we didn't. I'd also rather not pika ditto much lol, I'd totally want to switch off pika vs falco's as well as lots of falco dittoes. Just because I "main" pika now doesn't mean I've dropped falco =). Actually there are a bunch of matches of it in the stream somewhere if you feel like looking. Also I see what you're talking about now with the up-b stalls

 

[DerfMidWest]

@vanir: yeah kai is ridiculous lol. You aren't going to rom though?

Unfortunately not. I'm poor and its my senior year in high school so for the first semester I'm really trying to get decent grades and stuff.
There is a chance that I'll be able to make it, but its very unlikely.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I understand the feeling, of being poor and school and junk. Though for the record, of the videos you've seen of smokey, one was him trolling against Kai, and one was him messing around against his 8 year old brother. Don't use either as evidence of how good he is lol. I'm interested in seeing you guys play, especially since I have no idea how good you are. Hopefully I'll see you at rom though =)

To actually contribute to the thread, what do you guys think pikas 5 worst match ups are?

 

[oukd]

Oh yeah I was going to ask this earlier but kept forgetting: what do you guys usually do when falling down from a really high height (say after fox uair at mid/high %)? This is possibly the most awkward part of playing Pika for me.

I figure that it would typically be safe to just fall/up+b to edgehog and do an immediate invuln ledgedash and reestablish center stage, but I find myself doing a lot of retreating fairs when against people who want to catch me in the air...sadly that seems to be the most priority you can squeeze out of pika, and landing with it when the opponent doesn't go after you is really easy to punish. landing without attacks seems good when people try to punish your landing since there's less landing lag.

@Smuckers - ya i know lol, wasn't implying to play in tourney. i also want to play a bunch of secondaries vs pika mains out of curiosity.
and i'm very down for falco dittos.

Also, 5 worst imo (from worst to least worst) is Sheik-ICs (tied) Fox Peach Falco

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I agree like literally 100% with that list lol.
When falling from high up I generally try to di to the side so I end up off stage and start throwing out jolts as I fall then I just try to get to the ledge. I dont always do that but I guess majority of the time I do.
And yeah we should get on a setup at one point and play a lot of different matchups. Those italics are scaring me, I sense confidence ='(.
It occurred to me that I have never played anyone or even met anyone on the pika boards

 

[DerfMidWest]

@smuckers: i had a feeling, I watched some of the stream stuff (his ganon) and as I said, he's aight. There are some old *** videos of me on youtube (mostly pichu and fox, no ICs) from like... Months ago... Lol.
Nothing that accurately reflects my skill :/
I'm not all that great, but w/e.

@Dkuo: UpB is a wonderful thing. Iirc, the special landfall lag is only a few frames (not as short a pichu's but its still hard to punish if positioned properly)

As for hardest MUs (in order):
1. ICs
2. Sheik (not far behind ICs)
3. Fox
4. Marth
5. Doc
(6. Pika. **** dittos lol)

My reasoning for ICs being over sheik is as follows:
Pika cannot get through their camping, nor can he stop their approach easily (though dsmash can be effective). He can't pressure them, and is easily grabbed. Once grabbed, pika is among the easiest for the ICs to grab combo/0-death. They just shut him down completely if played correctly.
Sheik is similar, but to a lesser extent.

 

[N64]

1.sheik
2.peach
3.ics
4.jiggs
5.mario

imoimo

 

[~Tac~]

Hmm.
1. ICs
2. Sheik
3. Falco
4. Fox
5. Doc

I kinda have Doc and Marth on the same boat, MU wise. imo

 

[AXE 09]

I kinda feel like it's...
1) Sheik
2) Peach
3) IC's
4) Doc
5) Jiggs/Fox

That's definitely a flexible list though. I keep changing my mind about a lot of matchups.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Axe next tournament we're both at (excluding Big House? Are you going to that?)

Pika vs Sheik bo5 $5 MBR recommended ruleset
Falco vs Fox bo5 $5 MBR recommended ruleset
Peach ditto bo3 $2 MBR recommended ruleset

Any of these appeal to you?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Andddd

1. Peach
2. Sheik
3. Marth
4. Don't play that many people often so not much more after that.

A lot of people listed Falco, I like Falco's with Pika = D Offstage = kill mostly. Unless you're playing good falcos >.>

 

[oukd]

^ I do it every once in a while when I already know my opponent will jump in, but its lag really puts me off.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that falling with an aerial and ac'ing it is pretty good, you get the same result of no lag from simply landing with an added bonus hitbox on the way down...although you'd have to commit to it because you lose airdodge/upb/etc

I like a lot of the harder matchups with Pika too but I still think they're one of Pika's worse matchups, lol.

edit: KK vs Axe Peach ditto? o_O

 

[DerfMidWest]

I like how KK specified the ruleset xD

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't want no janky RC or MC or PF or what have you polluting my set with its jank

 

[DerfMidWest]

Axe isn't one of those janky kinda players