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Mr. Escalator

G&W Guru
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It is possible, yep!

Also, on second thought, if UTD Zac was actually referring to the uses of Judgment I listed and me saying it was hard to use safely in his post instead of what I thought he was saying (that Judgment wasnt his worst move), then I actually don't disagree on that notion. Zac knows the hammer better than most, I was just listing the situations I personally would chance the move.

It's still his worst move, possibly better than Utilt but that's arguable, but if you were just arguing that it is a useful move even if it's the worst I sorta take back a bit of that!
 

PentaSalia

Smash Master
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A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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The reason why F-tilt is bad is because for every situation G&W could be using F-tilt, he has a better option.

F-tilt simply doesn't do anything remarkable. D-tilt is a better poke. F-smash destroys spotdodges better. F-tilt is also pretty unsafe on block, while the other two attacks are relatively safe on block.

Basically the one time where F-tilt is better than D-tilt and F-smash is out of shield against specific attacks, and against those attacks, you really really should be dashgrabbing out of shield.

G&W's U-tilt isn't bad. It's just very situational. It's REALLY good at punishing air dodges (and sometimes spotdodges) and juggling (juggle space animals anyone?). It's also a good KO move at high percents, if I recall killing Mario at like 140ish percent, which is better than what G&W can hope to achieve with F-tilt. U-throwing and walking -> U-tilt works pretty well. It's G&W's safest move overall when his opponent is above him, in that he's least likely to get punished for properly spacing this move.

Judgement is G&W's second worst attack. It's not useless because it's one of his best moves for edgeguarding against Snake.
 

Mr. Grey

Smash Cadet
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Jan 10, 2009
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X-Zone
I might be wrong about this, but I swore you can juggle DDD with 2 peices of bacon from chef into a 9, I pull it on my friend who mains DDD all the time. I dont think its guaranteed unless you fire out 2 chef projectiles, so by the time the second one hits, your close enough to him to number 9 him :d
 

A2ZOMG

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A2Z Could explain the usage of jab canceling? im a bit confused on what to do.
Jab canceling makes it easier to get grabs. It also helps scout whether or not they are spotdodging, because the Jab is safe on spotdodge (not to mention it's safe to throw out in general due to its low lag).

Jabbing is also really good against people who don't tech the D-throw, since of course, Jab canceling leads to a grab, allowing you to reset the trap.
 

Lightning Tiger

Smash Apprentice
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MD/VA
alright Thanks.
I'll be working on this in addition to better tech chasing.
any tips?

Also while watching some vids.
would anyone be interested in finding out which grab Gaw can duck right under?
and the frame data for duck.
 

Mr. Grey

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I had a quick question, what does the term "buffer" mean.
I simply do not understand what it means. Please explain.
 

KirbyIRL

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Conway, AR
There is a certain window during the ending animations of some moves or after landing where you can input a command (IE dash, jump, attack, etc) and your character will carry out that command as soon as it is able to do so. For instance, if you do an up-B as GaW and hit your A button just before the parachute deploys and wait, once the up-B's animation is over he'll do a n-air immediately.
 

A2ZOMG

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Yeah. Considering how easy it is to mash 6 times a second, the buffer window in this game to do frame perfect actions is huge.
 

Novabound

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 21, 2004
Messages
156
Out of curiosity, didn't we have a stage discussion thread? What happened to it? : / I wanted to put some of my cents into stage strategies...
 

Lightning Tiger

Smash Apprentice
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I searched up the threads on the GaW boards. Could anyone tell me if there is a thread on Tech chasing?
if not i kind of want to make one seeing how useful tech chasing is.
 

PentaSalia

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tech chasing is all about reading your opponent well ;/
really can't elaborate much on that
that's all on your reading skills

though several characters roll/land a certain way after the throw and there are also some that you shouldn't techchase at all, i.e snake

im not sure if there's a thread about it though

it might just be explained briefly in the guide

but it's a pretty good idea
 

A2ZOMG

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I searched up the threads on the GaW boards. Could anyone tell me if there is a thread on Tech chasing?
if not i kind of want to make one seeing how useful tech chasing is.
Cutter made one a long time ago.

All there is to techchasing is learning common getup patterns. There isn't a surefire way to explain it. It's about your instincts about your opponent's mentality, and having good reaction time also helps.

However, if your opponent doesn't tech, and lands behind you, 99.99999999% of the time they will roll behind you.

Players that try to be "smart" will try to roll towards the ledge when you D-throw them near it. If you think your opponent isn't that smart, either they will roll away from the ledge, or do a getup attack, and walking away beats both these options. If they do the getup attack, you get to hit them with a free B-air/F-air.

Against opponents that tech...maybe you could try U-throwing them to learn which way they DI. Otherwise similar rules apply if you D-throw them near the ledge. Otherwise usually, they rarely roll in the same direction after you successfully techchase them once. Also, be aware of the gutsy opponents that try to tech in place and attack you. If you can predict/react to that, then free D-smash/regrab.
 

Today

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Heyo! Question guys!! I generally have problems with Olimar, Donkey Kong, and Lucario!
Olimar Pikmin hurts! I figured the best way to go against an Olimar is to try and stay close to him and attack instead of far away and a constant Bair? I don't exactly know.. haha! Just it seems I try and stay far away and so does he, which allows him to throw Pikmin at me and rack up damage that way. Are there any solid ideas to do against Olimar?
Donkey Kong bair isn't exactly fun. Not only that, he's heavy and G&W is light. So he can kill me at a lower percentage while I have to rack up damage for him. I guess the best thing is to bair him, too? But DK has some nice range..
And I don't know why I have an issue with Lucario. He just seems to be something I can't exactly go against.. haha..
Thank you very much guys~!! Any tips are appreciated!!
 

cemo

white walker
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I love the d-throw techchase. On small platforms d-smash is practically guaranteed. I can't really add much to what A2ZOMG said, though. Fair is a great option, since it catches a lot of people with bad DI.

GaW can essentially tech chase himself to death. His rolls and techs are just so awful. ):
 

2-2

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Heyo! Question guys!! I generally have problems with Olimar, Donkey Kong, and Lucario!
Olimar Pikmin hurts! I figured the best way to go against an Olimar is to try and stay close to him and attack instead of far away and a constant Bair? I don't exactly know.. haha! Just it seems I try and stay far away and so does he, which allows him to throw Pikmin at me and rack up damage that way. Are there any solid ideas to do against Olimar?
Donkey Kong bair isn't exactly fun. Not only that, he's heavy and G&W is light. So he can kill me at a lower percentage while I have to rack up damage for him. I guess the best thing is to bair him, too? But DK has some nice range..
And I don't know why I have an issue with Lucario. He just seems to be something I can't exactly go against.. haha..
Thank you very much guys~!! Any tips are appreciated!!
There are some post a couple pages back in this thread that talk about dealing with Olimar, DK you mainly want to keep in the air because his aerials can be beat by G&W, and Lucario isn't too bad of a matchup, make sure to kill him when you get him into high percents or you will be f-smashed, and that's no bueno.
 

A2ZOMG

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Heyo! Question guys!! I generally have problems with Olimar, Donkey Kong, and Lucario!
Olimar Pikmin hurts! I figured the best way to go against an Olimar is to try and stay close to him and attack instead of far away and a constant Bair? I don't exactly know.. haha! Just it seems I try and stay far away and so does he, which allows him to throw Pikmin at me and rack up damage that way. Are there any solid ideas to do against Olimar?
Donkey Kong bair isn't exactly fun. Not only that, he's heavy and G&W is light. So he can kill me at a lower percentage while I have to rack up damage for him. I guess the best thing is to bair him, too? But DK has some nice range..
And I don't know why I have an issue with Lucario. He just seems to be something I can't exactly go against.. haha..
Thank you very much guys~!! Any tips are appreciated!!
Vs Olimar.

Spam SH N-airs a lot to deflect his Pikmin. If you space this correctly, this can be used to poke Olimar safely, and if it hits his shield, you can just jump away, or if you know he's going to attack, you can D-air him here. Intelligent use of D-tilt is also unpunishable, and very useful for deflecting his Pikmin. Obviously don't spam it twice in a row and let him grab you. If you can bait a grab this way, you can punish him all the time with B-air. Olimar can never shieldgrab your Jab, but don't let him SDI away and grab you out of that. D-throw ***** Olimar whether he techs or not, because his techroll is really slow. If he can't tech, and you D-throw him near the ledge, 85% of the time he will DI behind you to avoid the D-smash gimp, so to punish this, you F-smash him for the KO.

Up-throwing him also works well, and of course, juggling him and edgeguarding him is extremely good.

Also, if he D-throws you at low percents, make sure to SDI up and away from him when he uses Up-smash, otherwise he can combo into an aerial more easily.

Vs Donkey Kong.

N-air out of shield is more valuable in this matchup than any other. Donkey Kong is a huge target and extends his hurtbox a lot, so if he attacks your shield with an aerial, N-air will almost always punish it provided he wasn't retreating B-air.

Don't get baited by his airdodge. If he manages to land after airdodging, he can U-tilt to punish whatever you whiffed. Learn to U-air him and time Smashes to discourage this. Grabbing him out of landing also is extremely effective.

Learn to use your lingering hitboxes, especially D-air to your advantage when edgeguarding him. Provided you don't mess up, Donkey Kong cannot avoid taking a hit offstage when he recovers.

On BF, D-smash is able to hit Donkey Kong while you stand on a platform. Abuse this when he's trying to get up from the ledge.

His <100% getup attack puts him behind you (assuming you are in normal range for ledge zoning). Considering how much Donkey Kong wants to use this to punish attempts to edgeguard him, learning to shield, and punish behind you is very important.

You can also powershield the Giant Punch on reaction, provided you are observant enough. It still pushes you back a fair bit when you do that, so be ready.

Vs Lucario.

The matchup for the most part is pretty straightforward. Don't get baited into his Aura Spheres and F-smash, and you should probably win. All of them you can defend against on reaction, and his F-smash has a slow enough charge release that can be powershielded on reaction (it's still hard to punish even on powershield, so you have to be really alert if you're going for that).

Edgeguard him hard, and also, don't get baited by his extremely fast roll either, and D-smash if you're in doubt that he might roll behind you to discourage this.
 

Splice

Smash Hero
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Playstyle wise,
I think you should try to Pressure Olimar, so don't let him get stage control and keep him on his toes.
For DK, be patient and play oppurtunisticly.
I don't how to play against Lucario, though.
Other than that, I nod my head at A2ZOMG and promote his knowledge.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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As for my opinion on matchup ratios

vs Olimar: 55/45 G&W all viable stages factored
vs Donkey Kong: 5/5 on most neutrals, 55/45 G&W on BF, dunno about counterpicks yet.
vs Lucario: 6/4 G&W

Both Olimar and Donkey Kong take a pretty high learning curve and patience to play against, so assuming you are new to the matchup, you will probably lose it a lot due to getting killed early for making a spacing mistake. Once you learn the spacing and timing of stuff, it starts getting a LOT better, due to how dependent those two characters are on a specific zoning/spacing tool, and how G&W can capitalize on and control that.

Lucario on the other hand as I said earlier, the matchup is straightforward. He can only get a kill "easily" by baiting you into full charge Aura Sphere or a clutch F-smash, and he otherwise really can't take you on directly. The only real trick to the matchup is being aware that he knows that, and not getting too impatient on your approach, which he can often avoid with something like his stupidly long roll that is a viable crossup option, and also, again I stress not getting impatient, as his Aura Sphere and F-smash are very difficult to punish. Edgeguarding and stage counterpicks are obviously in your favor.
 

Adamated

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
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Ohio
Hey guys, I have a quicky here for ya.

Lets say in the fox/falco matchup, would it be wise for the opponent to fill your bucket during a bucket brake? I know that the bucket doesnt brake if it's full, but is it worth doing if G&W is at high %'s?

Thanks.
 

A2ZOMG

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Depends on G&W's altitude...if he's low enough, you might get a cheap kill that way.

Otherwise I really wouldn't do that.
 

Adamated

Smash Apprentice
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Well, I did a little bit of testing anyway. Fox's lasers are weaker the further away they are. Ie. 3 bucketed shots at close range = 25% damage from OP and 3 weak bucketed lasers do 18% damage. Also the weak ones only kill fox above 100% from the middle of FD. So again I ask, worth it or not?
 

A2ZOMG

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Killing just above 100% is still pretty good, especially since it is G&W's fastest attack.
 

Adamated

Smash Apprentice
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okay, I thought that dsmash was faster and killed earlier than that. But thanks for the input guys.
 

cemo

white walker
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Don't go out of your way to fill up the bucket, though.
Getting a laser is not a good trade if you're going to eat an upsmash or something.

Plus if I was in killing percentage I'd rather have an empty bucket for the bucket braking.
 

hippiedude92

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Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
how the **** do you beat gaw's turtle and his dair??

everytime i get hit by his turtle, i always DI towards him like everyone says but it barely even helps because he ****ing has a follow up for it and if the turtle touchs my shield i have no clue wtf to do or else it'll shield stab mine.
 

cemo

white walker
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...are you marth?

sdi up out of the turtle and fair, up-b when he's trying to pressure your shield. the dair you can just shieldgrab or counter.

:(
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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how the **** do you beat gaw's turtle and his dair??

everytime i get hit by his turtle, i always DI towards him like everyone says but it barely even helps because he ****ing has a follow up for it and if the turtle touchs my shield i have no clue wtf to do or else it'll shield stab mine.
If your marth and he spaces the bair wrong you can Up B Oos and i also think you can grab him out of his bair in between the 3rd of 4th hit or something like that.
 

A2ZOMG

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how the **** do you beat gaw's turtle and his dair??

everytime i get hit by his turtle, i always DI towards him like everyone says but it barely even helps because he ****ing has a follow up for it and if the turtle touchs my shield i have no clue wtf to do or else it'll shield stab mine.
Don't get baited by him. Plain and simple. Bait HIM instead and punish him when he attacks. Your F-air reaches at a wider angle than his B-air, and can consistently punish his B-air. Up-B out of shield works if his spacing is not optimal.

Better G&Ws will bait you into their F-air, which never gets SDIed, and has more shield pushback (can be used fullhopped, where it has no landing lag).

If he fullhops his B-air and it connects (on predicted jumps), SDIing it probably won't work.

If he D-airs into you, Up-smashes and U-tilts and U-airs beat it, not to mention Counter.
 

PentaSalia

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how the **** do you beat gaw's turtle and his dair??

everytime i get hit by his turtle, i always DI towards him like everyone says but it barely even helps because he ****ing has a follow up for it and if the turtle touchs my shield i have no clue wtf to do or else it'll shield stab mine.
you could have just asked me instead of leaving me sour feedback after our matches lol=/


but yea,everyone has pretty much covered everything

Don't get baited by him. Plain and simple. Bait HIM instead and punish him when he attacks. Your F-air reaches at a wider angle than his B-air, and can consistently punish his B-air. Up-B out of shield works if his spacing is not optimal.

Better G&Ws will bait you into their F-air, which never gets SDIed, and has more shield pushback (can be used fullhopped, where it has no landing lag).

If he fullhops his B-air and it connects (on predicted jumps), SDIing it probably won't work.

If he D-airs into you, Up-smashes and U-tilts and U-airs beat it, not to mention Counter.
btw,he was using snake and diddy A2zomg

not marth :o
 

mikeHAZE

Smash Legend
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North Hollywood, CA
just powershield your way in. she's annoying with zaird and missles but once you get in, she has a pretty bad defense so you'll be able to follow up.
 
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