Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[K 2]

Opps. I didn't mean if you could spike with it (I know its a rather weak spike). I meant if someone else could spike you. i.e. Toon Link dairs you will you are using phantasm to recover; will you get spiked, or no?

 

[8AngeL8]

Oh, I get it. Hmm, I'm actually not sure, I haven't had it happen. I've got a TL friend I can test it out with later today to see how it goes down!

Either way, that's some pretty epic timing on the TL's part.

 

[K 2]

Well, someone characters have fast/long lasting hitboxes for their spike, which can make horizontal recovery dangerous (ike's side b, luigi's side b, pika's side b, etc.). Most character's recovery moves have super armor frames, invincibility frames, or super high priority so they won't get spike/hit out of their recovery. I admit, your opponent want have to have insane reaction/prediction to spike you out of phantasm (if it's possible), but if they figured out how to do that, you're basically dead everytime you get send offstage.

 

[8AngeL8]

I could see you getting hit out of it right as you activate the side-b, for that split second while you're not moving yet. I don't think it'd be possible to reliably spike you out of it once he's moving, though.

I'll test some spikes out later today, post the results tonight.

 

[Denzi]

Opps. I didn't mean if you could spike with it (I know its a rather weak spike). I meant if someone else could spike you. i.e. Toon Link dairs you will you are using phantasm to recover; will you get spiked, or no?

It would be very dangerous for a TLink to try it, but I've seen it done with a R.O.B., so yes, it's possible.

 

[XxBlackxX]

yes ive seen it happen with other characters(marth) but a Tlink will have a hard time timing the spike and it will be very dangerous. also im pretty sure its only at the beginnning;

 

[Denzi]

yes ive seen it happen with other characters(marth) but a Tlink will have a hard time timing the spike and it will be very dangerous. also im pretty sure its only at the beginnning;

The one I saw (with ROB) was in the middle of the Phantasm. I tried to find the video, but I couldn't remember where I saw it.

 

[XxBlackxX]

oh...well i know the phantasm has some of the worst priority in the game so i guess it IS very possible. maybe ill test it with my friend tomorrow.

 

[8AngeL8]

Haha, one of my friends actually tried to say the other day that Falco has insane recovery and is ungimp-able.

I rofl'd inside quite heartily.

 

[XxBlackxX]

Haha, one of my friends actually tried to say the other day that Falco has insane recovery and is ungimp-able.

I rofl'd inside quite heartily.

lmao
reminded me of the time my friend (who used to main marth) said MK's weakness is his crappy recovery cuz he used up b all the time.

 

[8AngeL8]

It astounds me just how little some people know about the game when they claim to be good. I found some people playing that I didn't know here on campus the other day so I sat down to play with them and I picked Snake. They asked me why I would play such a terrible character.

When I Ftilted, they asked how I used that "secret move".

 

[Denzi]

I get the same thing from my friend a lot. I won a match with Mario by only shieldgrabbing his (obvious) approaches and caping his recovery. All he said was "Arrrrggh! There's no way to even beat you! Stop being so cheap!"

lol @ "secret move"

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

I know the SHDL is great for moving around and covering your feathered arse, but is there any use for combining it with that comparatively-quick ground laser you get upon landing? Does that triple-shot have any camping value whatsoever? It seems like that SHDL-shine combo, but for longer range.

What're some good uses for his dtilt? That's probably my most underused move.

 

[GodAwful]

What're some good uses for his dtilt? That's probably my most underused move.

I like to use it when my opponents are at low percents to combo with after a sweet spotted d-air.

 

[Mith_]

I know the SHDL is great for moving around and covering your feathered arse, but is there any use for combining it with that comparatively-quick ground laser you get upon landing? Does that triple-shot have any camping value whatsoever? It seems like that SHDL-shine combo, but for longer range.

What're some good uses for his dtilt? That's probably my most underused move.

Shooting a laser while grounded generally isn't a good idea. Unless your opponent is off stage. Camping with grounded lasers can be campy but isn't as good as others. It can get evaded (I can't evade it, because I fail at this game but w/e).

Dtilt at 0% can lead into an unavoidable Chain Grab. It can also lead into a Dair, Up angled Ftilt, Fsmash, SHL, there are a lot of possibilities. The range sucks though lol.

 

[Denzi]

Staying in the "lasers" category, the Silent Laser -> Boost Usmash:
1. Is it unavoidable? (if the laser hits)
2. Is it a good way to get kills? (aside from a spike)
3. Is there a good method to pulling it off consistently? (my fingers seem to slip a lot, though I'm getting better)

 

[8AngeL8]

1. If it hits and you're close enough, the Usmash will hit. You have to be pretty close, though, so if they shield it, a lot of characters like DK or Marth can punish you before you can Usmash.

2. I find it Falco's most reliable way to get kills. Before I figured out this trick, my DK playing friend used to tear me apart every single match because I couldn't land and kill moves. Once I discovered this, the matches swung the other way instantly. Getting kills this way is practically broken for Falco.

3. Nothing but practice, man. I think the hardest part is consistently getting the silent laser, honestly. Once you've got that, the boost smash is pretty easy.

 

[Denzi]

Alright, thanks. I guess I'll just have to keep working at it. And yeah, I still find the silent laser rather difficult.

 

[CELTiiC]

I find myself missing a lot of SHDL and SHL, do I just need to practice timing again, or what should I do? Thanks in advance.

 

[Denzi]

I'm not sure about SHSL because I miss a lot af those myself (the standing ones, I somhow find the retreating ones much easier). With SHDL, i'd say just remember that it's not jump -> mash B, it's jump -> wait -> press B twice. Other then that, it's really just practice.

(regular, not silent SHL is also just a matter of getting the timing down, But I'd go for the silent ones unless you still find those too hard to consistently get.)

 

[CELTiiC]

I'm not sure about SHSL because I miss a lot af those myself (the standing ones, I somhow find the retreating ones much easier). With SHDL, i'd say just remember that it's not jump -> mash B, it's jump -> wait -> press B twice. Other then that, it's really just practice.

(regular, not silent SHL is also just a matter of getting the timing down, But I'd go for the silent ones unless you still find those too hard to consistently get.)

Yeah, I do wait, but sometimes when I wait I only get 1 off, I guess it's just lack of practice. I get Silent lasers sometimes, but I still need work. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Do not care what anyone says trying to find a thread on a particular topic using "search" is a pain.

Alright I'm trying to incorporate the pivot grab, boost pivot grab, reverse pivot grab whatever the heck the thing is called into my chaingrabs, but find the timing seems a bit slow and people can escape it. So is there either a thread or video guide on this yet?

If anyone is willing to explain it here, this is what I am doing: Dgrab > dash > Pivot > grab. Now if that is the correct method of doing I'm either doing my dash too late or only certain people can be boost pivot grabbed (again whatever the technique is called).

And yes I am attemping this in the given percentage range of about under 45%

 

[Denzi]

Regular pivot grab shouldn't work at all, and if it does, you just got lucky. The reverse grab boost is the only way to change direction during a chain grab. The way I do it is Dthrow > dash > back on the control stick > shield + A, but the other way (if I'm right) is Dthrow > dash > back on the control stick > C-stick back + Z (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I know the first method works, but someone else will have to confirm the seccond one.

 

[Tommy_G]

Pivot boost grab is dash>dash attack> pivot> grab from standing position. Anywhere else if you don't time the dash attack in there, it doesn't go as far.

I found the weak up air hit box. It's in his tail when Falco flips.

 

[Mith_]

Do not care what anyone says trying to find a thread on a particular topic using "search" is a pain.

That's what this thread is for buddy
although you should search first

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Regular pivot grab shouldn't work at all, and if it does, you just got lucky. The reverse grab boost is the only way to change direction during a chain grab. The way I do it is Dthrow > dash > back on the control stick > shield + A, but the other way (if I'm right) is Dthrow > dash > back on the control stick > C-stick back + Z (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I know the first method works, but someone else will have to confirm the seccond one.

Thanks! Finally I can do this properly. Well, practice time. Yes, the second method does work.

Pivot boost grab is dash>dash attack> pivot> grab from standing position. Anywhere else if you don't time the dash attack in there, it doesn't go as far.

I found the weak up air hit box. It's in his tail when Falco flips.

And it makes it easier for me to do. I've always had a problem with the boost smash bet this will not be any different. Still not as annoying has trying to get the SHL/SHDL timing down. What are the frames for the weak hit box vs the strong hitbox of the Uair??

That's what this thread is for buddy
although you should search first

I did, but after looking through was feels like a hundred threads I gave up.

 

[Mith_]

Staying in the "lasers" category, the Silent Laser -> Boost Usmash:
1. Is it unavoidable? (if the laser hits)
2. Is it a good way to get kills? (aside from a spike)
3. Is there a good method to pulling it off consistently? (my fingers seem to slip a lot, though I'm getting better)

Change your controller scheme if you find doing a certain tech difficult. I have my L button set to jump so I can use my left hand to jump and right thumb to shoot lasers, as opposed to sliding my thumb from X to B while risking doing another special or hitting A.

Sorry for the double post =/

edit: ouch, the OP spelled question wrong >.>

 

[tRoll King]

How-to: Dash attack -> up-smash?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How-to: Dash attack -> up-smash?

To do a dash attack than immediately hit with Usmash the simplest way for me is you use the dash attack on a character in the beginning frames of the dash attack than hit up on the c-stick (if that is set to smashes) almost directly after doing the dash attack.

Remember this method really only works when the dash attack in the beginning frames make contact with the character your attacking, if you do not do that it will not work and you'll just do a dash attack instead.

There are other ways to do this I think, but those ways escape me.

Edit: I forgot to add that the dash attack and Usmash both connect to hit the target up till ~60% on all characters, after about 60% is reached the dash attack hits them to far for the Usmash to connect.

 

[Tommy_G]

I can't get frame data but I know the weak up air hit box is a tail whip when Falco flips around. Look at his tail when he flips. Hitting with the tail means weak hit box, hitting with his feet means strong hit box.

Dash attack up smash, while hitting someone expect the dash attack to hit then right when it hits, press up on the C-stick.

Dash attack cancelled up smash, same as above without hitting someone, dash forward, press down on the Cstick(Down is the direction to have the dash attack come out instantly from the first frames of a run, left and right do side smashes and up does up smash) and up+Z. I suggest you to change L or R to attack to use that instead of Z. It's easier and theres a bigger window.

 

[fridayslobster]

yea the cstick down dash attack then a quick up z works the best when i play falco..

Question: Whats the easiest way to pull a neutral air on an opponent right after a down throw? it seems that every time i try to i end up doing a forward air instead of a neutral air and get punnishd hard.

 

[XxBlackxX]

uh....after the dthrow, do a quick foward shorthop then be sure to take your left thumb off the left stick then press a in the air.

 

[Denzi]

Question: Whats the easiest way to pull a neutral air on an opponent right after a down throw? it seems that every time i try to i end up doing a forward air instead of a neutral air and get punnishd hard.

If they're close enough for a gaurenteed hit with a SH Nair, then couldn't you just gatling them for the extra damage?

 

[8AngeL8]

The only time I can think of when you'd want to follow a Dthrow with a nair would be if the chain was finished under a low platform (such as the one of Halberd). Following with a nair would allow consecutive nairs onto an opponent through the platform. It's not guaranteed, but it could yield more damage than the gatling, and it gets your opponent in position for aerial combos.

 

[fox219]

What is Falco's matchup against fox?

 

[Denzi]

Falco > Fox.

 

[fox219]

yes!! thank you!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am back again, but this time about a strategy idea.

Is this at all an effective mindgame strategy for gameplay on final destination?

Part 1:
Flee > 1/4 stage left perform Retreating SHDL > Phantasm > Repeat

A better explaniation is that if you get some resonable spacing between you and your opponent. You flee in the opposite direction till about 1/4 full stage length from the edge than you perform the Retreating SHDL which the momentum will bring you to just the very edge of Final Destination you Phantasm out of the SHDL towards the center of the stage than you keep going towards the edge you phantasmed towards and repeat this whole stratgey.

Part 2:
Now since a smart person would catch onto this repeating pattern they would really do 2 things. They keep pursuiting, but try attacking you or shielding your lasers and phantasm from which they will try to combo you from there. Or they would just stay away from you and wait for you to approach.

Counters to both of those reactions to this strategy is pretty simple. If they stay away you can simply force an approach with camping of SHDL than go back to the Flee > 1/4 stage left perform Retreating SHDL > Phantasm > Repeat idea. Now all that will eventually provoke constant chasing after you from which they will be forced to try and shield/attack you while you phantasm away from them.

Now that you have effectively tricked them to really only 2 options to deal with you, on the next pass of the strategy you will not phantasm out of retreating SHDL which they will most likely expect you do. Instead you will use just about any other combo you can think of that will work against what you think they would try next.

Most people would probably try to spot dodge or shield a SHDL/Phantasm combo (it is what they have come to learn for most people to deal with Falco's phantasm), so you will most likely have to deal with that idea and follow up with something out of the the SHDL to deal with that.

Recap:
So basically the strategy for this mind game is you Flee > 1/4 stage left perform Retreating SHDL > Phantasm > Repeat back and forth from edge to edge of Final Destination. Using Camping SHDL at an edge to force that approach to go back to the previous idea till you get to the point where you can predict what they will try to do. After that you switch into combos from retreating SHDL to finish them off.

Persepctive:
From the persepctive of the person dealing with Falco they are seeing someone who for one is constantly fleeing and manging to escape each time. Also they are taking stunning damage from the SHDL and Phantasm. And when it seems Falco is predictable and they know how to counter Flaco, Falco changes playing styles and go on the offensive leading to their KO. After that the Falco goes back to this same strategy and eventually that person will get so annoyed/angry at this strategy, that they get too focused on trying to stop this and the person's playing style will start to be affected and they will make more errors allowing Falaco to make even easier work with them.

Problems:
Now this whole mindgame strategy seems effective on paper it seems a bit difficult to execute. Although I am no professional at using Falco, so I do make mistakes, but when I have used this and executed with very little mistakes on my part it seems to work exceedingly well on people.

Since this relys on SHDL to force approaches and allow easier approach for Falco, any character that shuts down Falcos laser will basically stop this whole mind game. Game @ Watch is good example of how to stop this mindgame by using his Dtilt to hit falco in Phatasm or the bucket on the lasers.

Name:
After spending awhile typing this I may as well give this Mindgame strategy a name
I think "Falco Mind Trick" works well.

 

[Denzi]

First, remember that no matter what, whether or not your mindgames are effective depends ENTIRELY on your opponent.

Generally laser spamming > laser + phantasm spamming. This is because the Phantasm has low priority and is easily punishible if done wrong/predictibly. Against you're strategy, for example, the opponent would be able to SHAD the lasers and catch you with an attack/grab out of your phantasm, where you would've been safe had you NOT used the phantasm.

As for your "tricking them" and not phantasming, I don't see how you'd be able to combo them if you're a phantasm's length (or close to it) away from them.

The reason this "mindgame" isn't so easy to execute is because of the amount of options your opponent actually has (depending on what character they are).

Spoiler

It's not a trick, it's an ILLUSION!

You should really only name something that you're sure a decent number of people will use. And I'm not sure many of us will. If you want to call it that, fine, but we won't.

TL;DR version:

It doesn't work so well.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Thanks for that Denzi. I posted that strategy because my playing style sort of evolved into basically that exact idea. I was hoping maybe I could refine it a bit to be something that works for me and would be more effective. I guess after thinking about it from the things you said Mindgames are not something that can be used on everyone and I'll have to change my playing style quiet a bit then :/. The name thing was for laughs as a starwars reference not much to be looked into. And as to me messing up, it was mostly with things like having too much momentum on the retreating SHDL, so I would fall off the stage and have to recover. Or I wouldn't SHDL spam correctly and get punished from that.

Anyway back to refining my playing style.