Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Pr0phetic]

Marth can def Grab Release --> Dair MK 0.o
He can also Nair and DB him.

 

[Reizilla]

GR nair on MK is another of those really hard ones. Also, DB can be easily SDI'd out of. I think GR -> fair is gauranteed on Falco and Snake (only if they jump break, obv).

Question of my own: am I just ****ing up, or is footstool spike not a real combo on everyone??

 

[C.J.]

It's not. Some you have to go either forwards or backwards some, others are just straight, then other just don't work. There's a thread here somewhere.

EDIT: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217053&highlight=footstool+spike

 

[PZ]

Can you cancel marth's up b by toughing the edge? Cpu gave extra shield preassure after up b when recovering<.< I also did a double up b in training mode. Also on a unrelated side note <3 marth's uair.

 

[Pierce7d]

If I didn't quote your post here, I felt your question was already adequately answered.

is rolling ever the best/good option for marth in a situation?

is it always better to use backroll to get the extra 4 frames of invincibility? would u PIVOT then backroll as a substitute for forward roll?

thanks

Rolling is a spacing tool and a mix-up tool. At higher levels of play, you often want to maintain constant pressure on your opponent, and people often get scared and hit block, or OVER-COMMIT to an offensive option instead of continuing a trap. However, in many MU's such as vs. MK or vs. Marth himself, rolling in as a cross up is good because opponent's MIGHT use a ground spacing tool which is vulnerable to cross-up, like Dancing Blade or Ftilt. Sometimes I'll dash out as a feint, and then use a back roll to get behind my opponent, but usually I like to just space and pressure with DB1 and then a standard DB, Dtilt, Fair, Nair pressure game.

[regarding Diddy Kong] don't get forward air'd.

This is very true. Crouching disables you from being vulnerable to a rising Fair, allowing you to get better punishes than if your shield was hit.

does platform cancelling have any lag at all?

can all characters platform cancel?

I don't believe it has lag. All characters are capable of platform canceling.

I believe Marth can do it on both of his jumps.

Some characters like DDD can only do it on their full hop.

D3 can platform cancel on his SH, if there was to be a low enough platform. However, characters with multiple jumps cannot platform cancel on a multi-jump (thank god)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzAWoZsGpwQ

frame 2

because he can't hit you unless you're dumb and let yourself get blown up by nades

he wouldn't but people mash buttons/spin the analog which means they may hit a jump command.

Snake can hit you without being dumb, but a proper spacing and pressure game gives Marth an upper hand. This is a GREAT MU to practice your spacing. Shield comes out frame one. Learning to evade grenades isn't hard. The trick is not to fear them. Ignore grenades that have 120+ frames before they can hurt you.

Yeah grab release to jab is guaranteed because every character in the game who ground grab releases another has a 1 frame advantage on them.

(i.e. the player who grabs is free to move from frame 29, the person who got released is free frame 30).

Bowser and Charizard get more advantage with releasing. DK gets more advantage when released.

Quick question. As Marth, how do you handle/punish Snake's dash attack and his F-Tilt? Whenever I go for the D Blade, I get whacked by the F-Tilt.

Try reading the MU thread for vs. Snake, and see if you can find my post anywhere there, because I've definitely covered this problem. Dancing Blade is a poor approach tool against Snake. If it trades with Ftilt, you have a LOT more hit stun than Snake does, and it gives him a free full ftilt after that, making you take 25% in the jaw while Snake took 4%. Considering the weight differences, this is horrible. Since the moves have very similar range and both come out on Frame 4, this trade happens far too often for me to advise using Dancing Blade as an approach. It's also not safe on block, and sets off grenades easily.

Of course, it's still good for a punish, and sometimes a juggle!

One new thing I'm trying to implement in my game vs. Snake, is to walk up and jab the air in front of him. If he swings Ftilt, it will clash. Often then, Snakes will try and be macho, and swing again, so I can roll behind them, block and then punish with Dancing Blade, Fsmash, Counter, or Dolphin Slash. Preferably Fsmash. It's good if the Snake has good spacing, and makes it hard to Fair them.

which % does marth grab release dair spike on mk ko guranteed?

will it still ko if it is stale? if not how much more % will you need?

does grab release dair also work on pikachu or any other characters?

does marth have any frame perfect combos/techniques?

what other grab release combos does marth have?

(haven't located brawl stats thread)

how many frames is teching? tech rolls?

how many frames is auto cancelled fair,uair ?

I believe at 54%, MK will die from a fresh GR Dair. I read that a while back somewhere here.
If Dair was the very last move you hit with, then LOL. It shouldn't be stale though, especially if you get a pummel or two.

MikeHaze has, and will continue to be the expert on GRs.

Marth has a LOT of traps that requires speed and precision. For example, on a lot of characters like MK, Marth can do stuff like Fthrow at 0- Nair - Dtilt - Studder Stepped tipper Fsmash for 44 percent, but usually it's your opponent's DI that stops this. If you're fast, you can read DI, and adjust accordingly. If my opponent likes to DI up, against MK I then do Fthrow - Nair - jab, which knocks them to the ground and typically makes them block, and then regrab to Fthrow - studder stepped tipper Fsmash for about the same damage. Or sometimes Fthrow - Nair - Utilt, wait for the airdodge - Fsmash or Usmash.

Look at the Frame Data guide for Marth specific frame data involving advantages.

I forget teching frame data (it's bad though, lol). Try not to tech unless forced, and then try to anticipate your opponent's options. Typically a good rule of thumb is that if your opponent is Dashing Towards you, tech towards them. If your opponent is waiting, tech away.

 

[PZ]

Umz kinda answered it myself looking at marth's AT vids through video response.

 

[Reizilla]

Pierce, I remember Junk saying that buffered DB beat out Snake's Ftilt if it clashed with jab, like you were saying. Do you or anyone knoe what frame data looks like for clashes?

 

[Player-3]

it has to do with how much hitlag(?) the move induces


like, clank with wolfs ftilt and you'll see a huge difference between your after-clank lag and his

 

[earla]

anyone got a link to the videos ally marth vs adhd

 

[Toby.]

Pretty sure they haven't been uploaded yet.

 

[Silhouette]

Sup guys
Question, you guys wanna watch some stream??

School is in Session, Cincinnati OH 60+ entrants.

Live Stream

ps: sorry if I missed your social

 

[earla]

im practicing stutter step f-smashes, it seems as tho with different timing i can get two different distances?

is that possible or am i mistaken?

 

[dean.]

It's possible. You need the longer one to get fthrow > fsmash on characters like Zelda.

 

[Albert.]

Is ChaosMarth a girl?

 

[Reizilla]

So the legends say. Many have doubt, however. I mean, what kind of girl would name themself "ChaosMarth?" A not-girl.

 

[Shaya]

There are 5 frames of the initial dash that each frame has a different length.
Hence there are 5 different lengths to stutter step.

The full 5 frames is about 1/3rd-half of marth's sword length. Meaning you can really extend the range of your fsmash by quite a large margin.

 

[earla]

cheers dean, jp

1. more effective to dair spike backwards then forwards? why?

2. more effective to footstool spike backwards or forwards? why?

3. good situations to go for normal dair spikes?

4. good situations to go for footstool spikes?

5. how do normal dair/footstool dair spikes compare in safety, effectiveness etc.? cheers

6. when grab release dairing mk, is i generally better to full hop the dair to auto cancel? or sh dair so you can punish afterwards easier?

7. is 10-dthrows - tipper f-smash guranteed on all spacies? how much frame leeway do we have? and is it generally 0-death? thanks

 

[Rad]

cheers dean, jp

1. more effective to dair spike backwards then forwards? why?

There are more frames where the Sword is 'backwards,' and during them the spike hit-bubble is not in a ******** position.

2. more effective to footstool spike backwards or forwards? why?

It's character dependent? I don't believe one is simply 'more effective.'

3. good situations to go for normal dair spikes?

D-air spiking only really works on opponents that are below you, so sometimes a ledge dropped rising D-air can be used 'sensibly' to intercept a recovery. Spiking through a predicted air-dodge is sort of possible, but more combo-vid stuff.

4. good situations to go for footstool spikes?

When a ZSS D-smashes an opponent off-stage? I don't think footstool spikes are ever sensible. I guess if the opponent has a recovery that you'd gimp with a footstool anyway.

5. how do normal dair/footstool dair spikes compare in safety, effectiveness etc.? cheers

Neither is really sensible in any situation, although the risk / reward for ledge dropping a D-air on a recovering opponent makes it an option.

6. when grab release dairing mk, is i generally better to full hop the dair to auto cancel? or sh dair so you can punish afterwards easier?

Pretty sure you have to do a rising full hop D-air, although I haven't put much time into it.

7. is 10-dthrows - tipper f-smash guranteed on all spacies? how much frame leeway do we have? and is it generally 0-death? thanks

I can't say off-hand if it works on all spacies, but it's certainly not a 0-Death. Merely a 0-50% combo.

tencharlimit

I'm actually a noob so I'm probably wrong about everything.

 

[earla]

please don't reply to anything if you believe you're 'probably wrong about everything'. thanks anyway though.

 

[Pierce7d]

Pierce, I remember Junk saying that buffered DB beat out Snake's Ftilt if it clashed with jab, like you were saying. Do you or anyone knoe what frame data looks like for clashes?

As the person responded to you mentioned, the hitlag your move has on clank affects the speed which you return to neutral. However, I'd advise Counter, Fsmash, Forward Roll, Nair, or Fair, instead of trying to use Dancing Blade.

im practicing stutter step f-smashes, it seems as tho with different timing i can get two different distances?

is that possible or am i mistaken?

There are 5 frames of the initial dash that each frame has a different length.
Hence there are 5 different lengths to stutter step.

The full 5 frames is about 1/3rd-half of marth's sword length. Meaning you can really extend the range of your fsmash by quite a large margin.

This is correct, additionally there are 5 steps backwards for the same reason. Also consider you can dash out of your initial dash, to get a bit more range, though this is very, very difficult.

cheers dean, jp

1. more effective to dair spike backwards then forwards? why?

2. more effective to footstool spike backwards or forwards? why?

3. good situations to go for normal dair spikes?

4. good situations to go for footstool spikes?

5. how do normal dair/footstool dair spikes compare in safety, effectiveness etc.? cheers

6. when grab release dairing mk, is i generally better to full hop the dair to auto cancel? or sh dair so you can punish afterwards easier?

7. is 10-dthrows - tipper f-smash guranteed on all spacies? how much frame leeway do we have? and is it generally 0-death? thanks

I'm actually a noob so I'm probably wrong about everything.

Everything in Rad's post was relatively accurate, except Dair hits higher than you realize on the backside, and is pretty good with range. Use Dair when you see an opening, but don't try to create openings with Dair.

Footstool spiking is a great way to hit confirm, and I've been practicing it lately. Footstool comes out on Frame 1 I believe (that's the frame your midair jump comes out on). It's faster and easier to space, and 'combos' into Dair (and UpB). Practice on CPUs.


Also, I thought it was 9dthrows.

please don't reply to anything if you believe you're 'probably wrong about everything'. thanks anyway though.

This is true, but you were mostly right. I will come in and answer everything, and be sure of what I'm talking about, so if you're not sure, no answer is better than a wrong answer.

 

[earla]

were the ally marth vids vs adhd recorded?

marth vs diddy, what distinct advantages do we have over diddy that puts the matchup in our favour? 55/45?

pierce notes that mikehaze is a grab release expert? is there any chance someone could ask him to write up a guide on grab releases his explored that may not be too well known?

any marth lessons written up from him being the best marth around?

grab release dair on mk, any tips on getting it consistent? i've just been practicing it on someone mashing u-air.

 

[Saske Kedari]

this might be a silly question but with Marth how do you run in shield cause i like i seens vids of other marth players in out of no where they block while runing then continues the attack

so how do you doo it?

 

[mikeHAZE]

were the ally marth vids vs adhd recorded?

marth vs diddy, what distinct advantages do we have over diddy that puts the matchup in our favour? 55/45?

pierce notes that mikehaze is a grab release expert? is there any chance someone could ask him to write up a guide on grab releases his explored that may not be too well known?

any marth lessons written up from him being the best marth around?

grab release dair on mk, any tips on getting it consistent? i've just been practicing it on someone mashing u-air.

I'll be very honest with you, i hate most of marth boards. Most people here are self pretentious ***** so i only really share stuff with Neo. People treat others a certain way so in turn i treat them the same and be selfish and not share.


and i'm lazy.

but i like you, where are you from?


the best way to grab release down air MK is to use the "claw method." basically, instead of jumping with your thumb like i assume your default would be, use your index (2nd finger to the right of your thumb) and jump with x or y, while using your thumb to press down on the c stick (yes, it will feel awkward for a good amount of time). This allows for maximum distance and maximum frames on your down air.


for grab releases on MK, marth has many options which are all good in their own time.

Grab release to

Fair (which has the potential to combo or follow up)
Nair (i dont like it lol)
Dair (mid percent kills, or tech chase follow ups)
forward b (To refresh your moves)
Up B (for kills if your fair is diminished, not sure which kills earlier if they're both DI'd)
dash attack (not really good at all imo lol. but if you're feeling sloppy this is the easiest gr to do, but the least effective)


Not sure if you're aware, but i'll inform you anyway. The reason grab releases work on characters is because some characters have an auto air break, which is caused when the character who is being grabbed does not have their feet on the ground. Obvious ones being Metaknight, or Wario. There are a few ways to manipulate your opponent into airbreaking though, so i'll explain.


If you grab an enemy at the edge of a platform (battlefield for example), it will cause a forced airbreak since there is no ground for them to stand on.

Another way an opponent will airbreak is if they press jump while breaking out of a grab. (so if they are aware of the air break and will ground break, you can always get a **** load of damage pummeling since they can't break out as fast)


Falco for example cannot be grab release combo'd unless he air breaks. If he DOES airbreak (by pressing jump while breaking out of a grab) Marth can Forward b him, fair him (if frame perfect), and spike falco off stage(though its much harder than snake, and probably doesn't work [tyrant and i tested it once but not thoroughly])

If you grab falco at the edge of a stage and force an airbreak (by his feet being off stage) you can do a dash off stage forward air.



hope this helps, there are many many many more grab releases and set ups you can create.

 

[Punishment Divine]

It's also worth noting that Marf has grab release - > Dash Attack on MK, which can be tipped with correct timing. Great way to make use of a ****ty move that keeps your fair fresh.

 

[mikeHAZE]

oh yeah, i knew i forgot something

 

[Saske Kedari]

so again Mike asnwer this for me how the hell do i run in shield at the same time with Marth

 

[Toby.]

earl is a really nice Australian smasher

 

[earla]

as toby said, from melbourne australia.

cheers for taking the time to help out mike. take care.

 

[ADHD]

I feel like I'd beat ya'll with mk.

 

[mikeHAZE]

nice try baptist

 

[Shaya]

Australian Marths.

Mikehaze loves all of em, right?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Dolphin Slash
Invincible frames: 1-5
Hit: 5-11

Just trying to confirm the meaning of this frame data.
Scenario:
Marth is in a shield and is now out of shield stun and wants to use Dolphin Slash to hit someone OoS.
Quesiton:
To use UpB, I would have to either drop shield or jump to cancel the shield drop altogether. However, both shield dropping and jumping is 7 frames. This to me seems as if droping shield or jumping out of shield is totally irrelevent as both induce the same number of frames. Now, I was thinking I was misreading this about the jump OoS into UpB. Does UpB start after the 7frames of jumping, or can it start anywhere inbetween those 7 frames.

I am basically trying to figure out if Dolphin Slash out of shield hits on frame 5, or really on frame 12 after considering jumping's intial frames.

 

[mikeHAZE]

12 would be tooooo slow, so i'd say the other


but i might be wrong (im not)

 

[Shaya]

Jump has 5 frames start up.
Dolphin Slash cancels jump start up.

Jump cancels shield drop lag.

 

[mikeHAZE]

meaning (i'm half asleep)


we have a grand total of how many frames?!

 

[Shaya]

dolphin slash comes out in 5 frames from shield.
If you start to jump then dolphin slash it comes out 5 FRAMES AFTER YOU PRESS UP B DURING THE JUMP START UP/SHIELD DROP.

 

[Saske Kedari]

lol i still didnt get a answer in i thought this was a thread for ppl to help others
by asnwering there questions guess not

 

[Foodies]

this might be a silly question but with Marth how do you run in shield cause i like i seens vids of other marth players in out of no where they block while runing then continues the attack

so how do you doo it?

When you are running, just press shield? I'm not quite sure what your question is asking. You can't shield during your initial dash though.

lol i still didnt get a answer in i thought this was a thread for ppl to help others
by asnwering there questions guess not

If you type with better grammar and be more polite your questions will probably be answered faster (or answered at all).

 

[mikeHAZE]

dont feed the troll lol.

report them instead

 

[LanceStern]

When you are running, just press shield? I'm not quite sure what your question is asking. You can't shield during your initial dash though.

After using Samus (who has an amazing dash -> shield) I found that Marths' dash is pretty slow. I'm thinking he's asking how to you grab out of a dash... which means you can't.