Thunder Of Zeus
*Rumble Rumble*
He was offstage, anyway.
-
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Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)
- Thread starter Pierce7d
- Start date
Using db1 to cancel your run/dash isn't terrible. The fox trots are a set length otherwise; cancelling it at max/safe range doesn't leave most characters with options anyway.
But learning to fox trot "lighter" is uber special awesome.
But learning to fox trot "lighter" is uber special awesome.
folk!
Smash Apprentice
yo! is marths 2xf-throw,2xdown, d-throw to tipper guaranteed?...starting at 0%
on falco and fox. yeah.
Tophes
Smash Cadet
Isn't it:
Falco - 2 x F-throw + 3 x D-throw ---> F-smash
Fox - 2 x F-throw + 5 x D-throw ---> F-smash
Falco - 2 x F-throw + 3 x D-throw ---> F-smash
Fox - 2 x F-throw + 5 x D-throw ---> F-smash
Thunder Of Zeus
*Rumble Rumble*
I don't know about Falco, but I'm pretty sure you've got it right about Fox.
GPEternity
Smash Journeyman
don't lucario's hitboxes and priority increase with his damage?
Pandii.... priority also refers to the disjointedness of moves.
Marth's aerial priority is amazing, as his moves apply well in both 'regular' priority (high damage) and disjointedness priority.
Marth's uair at least has slightly more horizontal range than Lucario's dair... I believe.
I dont think his uair will always outdisjoint his dair though.
Marth has better aerial momentum.
Marth also has a better fast fall.
Utilt I would say is near certain to beat dair.
Marth's aerial priority is amazing, as his moves apply well in both 'regular' priority (high damage) and disjointedness priority.
Marth's uair at least has slightly more horizontal range than Lucario's dair... I believe.
I dont think his uair will always outdisjoint his dair though.
Marth has better aerial momentum.
Marth also has a better fast fall.
Utilt I would say is near certain to beat dair.
magikguy
Smash Lord
uhmm what is marth's second best option out of shield?
i would like to mix it up.
i would like to mix it up.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
true
you can also use them to punish laggy moves like Snake's tilts or D3's usmash
you can also use them to punish laggy moves like Snake's tilts or D3's usmash
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
I tried to post earlier, but apparently it didn't get through since the PC i was using was very slow...
Anyways, yeah there really isn't a "2nd best" option. And especially since Marth has so many options in general compared to most of the other characters, he's very flexible.
Like P3 said, DS is a good OoS option, and is one of your better ones. The only bad thing about it is that it's risky because you can miss. But, if you use it while under a platform, like at the center of BF, then you can't get punished nearly as easily or as hard, and it's pretty safe to use it.
In rare cases, Dair OoS is also good, and if you DI the whole time away from the opponent, then they shouldn't be able to get to you fast enough to severely punish you.
Even Jab OoS can be used well.
Btw Shaya, there's someone on AiB who researches and collected a lot of information and put it into his blog. He has formulas ranging from how strong or weak Lucario gets depending on stock, %, teammates, etc and to how fast Pokemon lose stamina. One of his pages was interesting, as it including info on Marth's Chaingrabs. Rukkiko, I think, was the one who pointed out this person in this thread like a month ago.
Anyways, it shows some of Marth's better Chaingrab Combos, and I don't remember the exact values, but most of them were like 10-11 dthrows on Shiek, Fox, Pikachu, and Falco, finished off with a tipper Fsmash at 0%, dealing about 50% damage. It said that you have to use Boost Pivot Grabs in order to fit that many throws in.
So do you know about this and can you share whether or not it's correct or not? Or whether it works generally unless you have good DI?
Anyways, yeah there really isn't a "2nd best" option. And especially since Marth has so many options in general compared to most of the other characters, he's very flexible.
Like P3 said, DS is a good OoS option, and is one of your better ones. The only bad thing about it is that it's risky because you can miss. But, if you use it while under a platform, like at the center of BF, then you can't get punished nearly as easily or as hard, and it's pretty safe to use it.
In rare cases, Dair OoS is also good, and if you DI the whole time away from the opponent, then they shouldn't be able to get to you fast enough to severely punish you.
Even Jab OoS can be used well.
Btw Shaya, there's someone on AiB who researches and collected a lot of information and put it into his blog. He has formulas ranging from how strong or weak Lucario gets depending on stock, %, teammates, etc and to how fast Pokemon lose stamina. One of his pages was interesting, as it including info on Marth's Chaingrabs. Rukkiko, I think, was the one who pointed out this person in this thread like a month ago.
Anyways, it shows some of Marth's better Chaingrab Combos, and I don't remember the exact values, but most of them were like 10-11 dthrows on Shiek, Fox, Pikachu, and Falco, finished off with a tipper Fsmash at 0%, dealing about 50% damage. It said that you have to use Boost Pivot Grabs in order to fit that many throws in.
So do you know about this and can you share whether or not it's correct or not? Or whether it works generally unless you have good DI?
For some reason I'm having trouble with the Diddy Kong match-up. I honestly feel more comfortable fighting Meta Knight and Snake than him. I'm having difficulty stopping his momentum and gaining the upper hand once he's on a roll. I also need some advice on what options are best after you shield a glide tossed banana and he's coming towards you with a grab/dash attack/smash/aerial.
Thanks a bunch.
Thanks a bunch.
Tophes
Smash Cadet
Diddy Kong is a matchup with a high learning curve - you pretty much need to sit through and look at it thoroughly.
Diddy's glide toss is good, but your glide toss is better; it can give you the ability to do dancing blade right after, f-smash, or just grab to anything you want to follow up after it. If you want to mess around, just glide toss backwards and throw the banana. It will keep you safe and out of the ****.
After Diddy throws his bananas, his options are pretty much what you listed there. This is pretty much reading the player on your part. I find DS OoS a good option when I don't know exactly what he's going to do; until a get a good hang of it, then I try to react differently to keep myself safer from punishment from DS if missed.
Diddy's glide toss is good, but your glide toss is better; it can give you the ability to do dancing blade right after, f-smash, or just grab to anything you want to follow up after it. If you want to mess around, just glide toss backwards and throw the banana. It will keep you safe and out of the ****.
After Diddy throws his bananas, his options are pretty much what you listed there. This is pretty much reading the player on your part. I find DS OoS a good option when I don't know exactly what he's going to do; until a get a good hang of it, then I try to react differently to keep myself safer from punishment from DS if missed.
You shouldn't assume I always read every post in this topic btw.
`-`
From what I can gather.. Marth doesn't really have a boost grab...
I've never seen anyone do a boost grab with Marth that was anything more than his normal dash grab...
`-`
From what I can gather.. Marth doesn't really have a boost grab...
I've never seen anyone do a boost grab with Marth that was anything more than his normal dash grab...
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
HA HA! I knew I was right.... slightly.
Reizilla
The Old Lapras and the Sea
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from what i've heard, marth has a boost grab, it's just really ****ty and pointless because it's as bad as his dash grab. same with his boost smash.
and a question, do dash grabs have higher priority than standing grabs, or do i just have really bad reaction time? every time some one dashes at me and i try to grab them and they try to grab me, i always lose. the only times i ever win that is when i use a retreating pivot grab. and how exactly do i upsmash out of shield?
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
Well I'm not even sure if we're talking about the right AT when I say Boost Pivot Grab. I'm talking about that one thread that Bengalz made about retreating pivot grabs. Where you dash forward, then true pivot into a pivot grab. I think this is the one that the guy on AiB was talking about, but I could be wrong.
To do stuff out of shield, you need to hold shield (duh), then jump (you can do this tap jump off with Y and X), then simply do whatever move you want. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is how to do it.
Well, a lot of people use priority in the sense that includes range and speed and stuff, but the exact meaning just means how well an attack succeeds over another attack. Or this is how I take it at least. As in if attack A and B have the same start up frames speed range etc, attack A can have more priority and will "get through" attack B.
So in that sense they have the same priorities I'm pretty sure. I guess it's just that their grabs have more range than yours, or their dashes don't have their characters' "collision" size as far out as a standing grab does.
To do stuff out of shield, you need to hold shield (duh), then jump (you can do this tap jump off with Y and X), then simply do whatever move you want. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is how to do it.
Well, a lot of people use priority in the sense that includes range and speed and stuff, but the exact meaning just means how well an attack succeeds over another attack. Or this is how I take it at least. As in if attack A and B have the same start up frames speed range etc, attack A can have more priority and will "get through" attack B.
So in that sense they have the same priorities I'm pretty sure. I guess it's just that their grabs have more range than yours, or their dashes don't have their characters' "collision" size as far out as a standing grab does.
Thunder Of Zeus
*Rumble Rumble*
I think Marth has a Dash Attack Cancelled Grab, or something.
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
Hmm interesting.
ZHMT
Smash Lord
You have trouble with Diddy cause hes a homo character, thats all
Just practice vs a ton of them and youll get better vs him
Note: Dont focus on gimmicky stuff (boost cancelled grabs pivot w/e bs) until you get great at basic spacing and decision making.
Learn how to use items.
Play with scrubby friends who are like "SMASHBALLS + EVERYTHING ELSE ON HIGH"
"ON SPEAR PILLAR"
then you'll become boss at beating diddy.
True story.
Play with scrubby friends who are like "SMASHBALLS + EVERYTHING ELSE ON HIGH"
"ON SPEAR PILLAR"
then you'll become boss at beating diddy.
True story.
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
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I went to my very first tournament, entering with Marth for the most part x.o
I had a pretty bad pool, best 4 would go to brackets, but 4 people were better than me. The pool I was in consisted of 7 people, including me. I ended fifth. I first played against a MK, he was spontanious with how he played and all. So we played, and i approached him with Full hopped Fairs and all. And he told me: "Each time you approach me like that, you'll eat an Up-B." So I stopped doing that for a while, because i remembered reading something on the Marth boards to use SHFFFairs and Dtilts, and not use Dancing Blade too much. (correct me if im wrong) So I did that but didn't really help out, unfortunately. I got 2 stocked, and i CP'd Halberd (Probably a bad decision but this is my first tourney and I didn't know what to CP, BF was banned >.<) So the second match was the same result, though I started to use FullHoppedFairs again, I did use some Grab Releases to Fair though. I even mindgamed him (i think) by UThrowing him on Halberd instead of a Grab Release, which resulted in Bad DI, he got killed around 120% with that.
So yeah, then I matched a DeDeDe, and that match went better, he always had 1 stock left with average to kill damage. Though I didn't know what to CP, I CP'd Pokemon Stadium 1, and I forgot about that stupid three, and he wall grabbed me out of that. When he CG'd me he baited my Up-B and all it was very bad. But I have a positive feeling over this match, it wasn't so bad. Then I battled a R.O.B. I got camped, and I almost got 3 Stocked. If it wasn't for that Fsmash I threw out randomly, he had 3 stocked me. He told me he was sorry, because he didn't want to play campy and gay like that, and he said he knew the MU very well. I was glad to hear that somehow, and I thanked him for his kindness. Then I CP'd Sonic on FD, he went Diddy. I almost won, I got predictable which was why I lost, to bad though. So yeah I lost another match against a very good Cpt Falcon, yeah I suck >_<. Then I finally won a pool match against a Link, the first match I lost, so I CP'd Battlefield and 2 Stocked him with Marth, then he CP'd Smashville where I completely baited his rolls and stuff and punished it with SHFFFairs, I 2 Stocked him there aswell. Then I played a very, very good Ganondorf. 2 Stocked him though, I pretty much outrange him, so he had no chance.
I guess I didn't do so well because this is my first tournament and I lack experience so yeah xD.
Sorry if i'm not allowed to post this here, but I just felt like posting this here. The players also gave me some tips, care to help me out how to punish what they said?
MK main: ''You attack my shield to much, from there I punished you so hard. Try not to attack my shield and just go back to not get hit.''
R.O.B Main: He said nothing, any tips to give me when I battle a R.O.B player?
DDD Main: He said nothing aswell, any tips?
Cpt Falcon: Nothing, he's just to manly for me, but i'd like some tips >.<.
I also have trouble seeing my mistakes, and I can't bait that good. I can only punish Air Dodges when they are in the air.
I had a pretty bad pool, best 4 would go to brackets, but 4 people were better than me. The pool I was in consisted of 7 people, including me. I ended fifth. I first played against a MK, he was spontanious with how he played and all. So we played, and i approached him with Full hopped Fairs and all. And he told me: "Each time you approach me like that, you'll eat an Up-B." So I stopped doing that for a while, because i remembered reading something on the Marth boards to use SHFFFairs and Dtilts, and not use Dancing Blade too much. (correct me if im wrong) So I did that but didn't really help out, unfortunately. I got 2 stocked, and i CP'd Halberd (Probably a bad decision but this is my first tourney and I didn't know what to CP, BF was banned >.<) So the second match was the same result, though I started to use FullHoppedFairs again, I did use some Grab Releases to Fair though. I even mindgamed him (i think) by UThrowing him on Halberd instead of a Grab Release, which resulted in Bad DI, he got killed around 120% with that.
So yeah, then I matched a DeDeDe, and that match went better, he always had 1 stock left with average to kill damage. Though I didn't know what to CP, I CP'd Pokemon Stadium 1, and I forgot about that stupid three, and he wall grabbed me out of that. When he CG'd me he baited my Up-B and all it was very bad. But I have a positive feeling over this match, it wasn't so bad. Then I battled a R.O.B. I got camped, and I almost got 3 Stocked. If it wasn't for that Fsmash I threw out randomly, he had 3 stocked me. He told me he was sorry, because he didn't want to play campy and gay like that, and he said he knew the MU very well. I was glad to hear that somehow, and I thanked him for his kindness. Then I CP'd Sonic on FD, he went Diddy. I almost won, I got predictable which was why I lost, to bad though. So yeah I lost another match against a very good Cpt Falcon, yeah I suck >_<. Then I finally won a pool match against a Link, the first match I lost, so I CP'd Battlefield and 2 Stocked him with Marth, then he CP'd Smashville where I completely baited his rolls and stuff and punished it with SHFFFairs, I 2 Stocked him there aswell. Then I played a very, very good Ganondorf. 2 Stocked him though, I pretty much outrange him, so he had no chance.
I guess I didn't do so well because this is my first tournament and I lack experience so yeah xD.
Sorry if i'm not allowed to post this here, but I just felt like posting this here. The players also gave me some tips, care to help me out how to punish what they said?
MK main: ''You attack my shield to much, from there I punished you so hard. Try not to attack my shield and just go back to not get hit.''
R.O.B Main: He said nothing, any tips to give me when I battle a R.O.B player?
DDD Main: He said nothing aswell, any tips?
Cpt Falcon: Nothing, he's just to manly for me, but i'd like some tips >.<.
I also have trouble seeing my mistakes, and I can't bait that good. I can only punish Air Dodges when they are in the air.
Mr-R
Smash Champion
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- 2,544
You play marth xD? why didn't you tell me !
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
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Dude, your to epic. I couldn't ask
The next time we meet, maybe you could help me out with some tips ? 
.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
I am that ROB player.
What Jumpman meant with not attacking his shield, he's quite right. I expected Ramin to answer that because he actually beats Jumpman but it looks like he's to f'ing lazy (still love you <3).
Against ROB just learn to powershield approach and the whole match-up goes a different way. Play aggressively and it should go about right. You shouldn't really get hit by spotdodge > dsmash unless you are spacing wrong.
Once ROB is either off-stage or in the air you have a clear advantage, his recovery is limited in the sense that he cannot airdodge out of upB unless he cancels it with an aerial first. Since Marth pretty much outranges him in the air, you can use that to your advantage. He's rather easy to juggle as well.
As for DDD, I just quit playing Wario in that matchup and I find it scary with Marth haha. Concentrate on punishing airdodges, DDD's aerial game is rather limited just off the ground since nothing (but nair) really autocancels. Patience is important there.
What Jumpman meant with not attacking his shield, he's quite right. I expected Ramin to answer that because he actually beats Jumpman but it looks like he's to f'ing lazy (still love you <3).
Against ROB just learn to powershield approach and the whole match-up goes a different way. Play aggressively and it should go about right. You shouldn't really get hit by spotdodge > dsmash unless you are spacing wrong.
Once ROB is either off-stage or in the air you have a clear advantage, his recovery is limited in the sense that he cannot airdodge out of upB unless he cancels it with an aerial first. Since Marth pretty much outranges him in the air, you can use that to your advantage. He's rather easy to juggle as well.
As for DDD, I just quit playing Wario in that matchup and I find it scary with Marth haha. Concentrate on punishing airdodges, DDD's aerial game is rather limited just off the ground since nothing (but nair) really autocancels. Patience is important there.
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
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Dude tell me, how can you talk normally to the best Marth of Europe? XD I guess I was pretty shy lulz.
EDIT: Lol, i see. Thanks for the tips, I'm gonna try to keep it in mind xD. But seriously how to hell did you guys get that good -.-
I remembered a thread where I was told how exactly you should fight a MK, can someone link me to it please?
EDIT: Lol, i see. Thanks for the tips, I'm gonna try to keep it in mind xD. But seriously how to hell did you guys get that good -.-
I remembered a thread where I was told how exactly you should fight a MK, can someone link me to it please?
Because celebrities are making billions of dollars and have at least 5 women hanging on their fingertips, that they know of.
Doesn't include the groupies.
No one in the smash realm is at that level
HEY MR.R, snacks at my place later followed by some golf?
Doesn't include the groupies.
No one in the smash realm is at that level
HEY MR.R, snacks at my place later followed by some golf?
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
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Haha, I guess you right. But he still awesome.
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
I was there!
Wait did he die right after your uthrow at only 120%? Or were you on that platform and he DI'd up and killed himself?
Btw don't worry about doing bad on your first tournament... pretty much everyone does lol. I did horribly too and I set myself at a disadvantage the whole time because I didn't know the rules perfectly.
Wait there was a CF AND a Ganon in your pool? And they weren't scrubs?!?! Nice to see CF/Ganon reps :D.
Also, who's da best Marth of Europe?
Lord Chair
Smash Master
It was at 140% or so, he didn't DI at all haha. The CF was someone just messing around with everyone. The Ganon wasn't all thát good
.Mr. R is the best Marth in Europe until proven otherwise, and I'm smartass enough to proclaim myself second best until some random *** objects (neh really, does Europe have any good Marth except for the 2 of us?).
Mr-R
Smash Champion
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infact europe has allot of marthsIt was at 140% or so, he didn't DI at all haha. The CF was someone just messing around with everyone. The Ganon wasn't all thát good
Mr. R is the best Marth in Europe until proven otherwise, and I'm smartass enough to proclaim myself second best until some random *** objects (neh really, does Europe have any good Marth except for the 2 of us?).
bjay
leon
retroking
me
you
gaki( well he did quit brawl )
chileno ( apparantly xD )
veyron
captain jadde
borja
trio
And some more, im not saying they're all ''amazing'' but europe does have allot of marths!
and chileno plz u should have seen me at my first tourney i think i said 2 complete sentences that day.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I think Xonar is the best marth in europe.
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
Lol. Anyways, I was just a bit confused cus Chileno4Live said "how do you talk so normally to the best marth in europe".
Wow still, 140% is really low to die at from a upthrow... was it on the main platform or the high platform?
Wow still, 140% is really low to die at from a upthrow... was it on the main platform or the high platform?
Mr-R
Smash Champion
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- 2,544
chileno the number one way to improve is to play more against good people to improve ur basics, so forget about all the threads for now and just play more against good people, ( and maybe ask them for advice )
and since u live in a city where there are allot of good players that shouldn't be a problem now would it ?
and since u live in a city where there are allot of good players that shouldn't be a problem now would it ?
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
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I guess so, yeah the MK had 140%, see i even forgot the percents . I wasn't the only one who sucked in his first tourney, but i guess i've made some new contacts. I'll definitely try to get better. I also have a problem with friendlies, i play them to win, not to improve, i'll change that. Suddenly everyone in singles played so ****in crazy good that i got nervous xD. Against Jumpman i just felt so pwned...
Thanks for giving me a good feeling guys :D I feel like i ****ed this thread up xD.
PS: I think the Ganon was pretty good, i've never seen a Ganon like that before. And the Uthrow was on the main platform, he didn't DI it.
. I wasn't the only one who sucked in his first tourney, but i guess i've made some new contacts. I'll definitely try to get better. I also have a problem with friendlies, i play them to win, not to improve, i'll change that. Suddenly everyone in singles played so ****in crazy good that i got nervous xD. Against Jumpman i just felt so pwned...Thanks for giving me a good feeling guys :D I feel like i ****ed this thread up xD.
PS: I think the Ganon was pretty good, i've never seen a Ganon like that before.
And the Uthrow was on the main platform, he didn't DI it.