Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[M4ge]

So today I played a bunch of offline friendlies with my friend Hippiedude (Mario/Luigi main to everyone who doesn't know him.) and I tried to play only by reading his moves, spacing him out, and punishing his mistakes accordingly. It worked, but not as well as I thought it would. =\
Every time I was getting momentum, he just stopped it and got momentum himself. Every time he did this, I had to back off and think of another way to get him in a bad position.
I was wondering if anyone had any tips on keeping momentum while keeping pressure the other person. Any ideas?

Taken from another thread.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Taken from another thread.

Fair/Shayair and dtilt all the time.

Fair and Shayair autocancel and cover in front of Marth really well; they will block off those pesky fireballs that are screwing your momentum. Against Mario, use more shayair, since he likes to cape.

Mario and Luigi are ridiculous with their utilt/uair/usmash juggling games. Marth is very vulnerable from below. What does this mean? It means that you have to do some bizarre **** to keep them on their toes. Air dodge, DS and- dare I say it? COUNTER when you can't get out of their traps.

Anything I didn't cover that you were wondering about?

 

[M4ge]

Mhmm.

This guy knows how to PS almost all of Marth's moves, probably should have mentioned that earlier. I've had trouble getting around it. I Dtilt too close and I get PS grabbed. My retreating fairs don't work well since he can just chase me and PS those. I probably just need to use a few more grabs...

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Mhmm.

This guy knows how to PS almost all of Marth's moves, probably should have mentioned that earlier. I've had trouble getting around it. I Dtilt too close and I get PS grabbed. My retreating fairs don't work well since he can just chase me and PS those. I probably just need to use a few more grabs...

Bait the shield and then screw him over.
Options:
Shield Breaker- it has a bit of startup lag which will be sufficient to outlast the PS frames. It can be use in the air as well as the ground, which is useful.
DB1 Stall- it really throws off your opponent's timing, which is crucial when PSing.
Grabdahoe- Grab>Shield. nuf said.
Mix it up- bla bla bla.

 

[Viquey]

you could always play snake

and use ftilt

works wonders on wifi......

but other than that.....
ledgecamp!

Hahaha. Nah, must remain loyal to the prince!

XD That works I guess.

On Samus:
Fair or Shayair through missiles.
Bait and dodge the Blue Blast of *****iness with ADs or SDs.
DI the hell out of her Up+B (I think you can 0,o) and punish.

On Snake:
Throw back uncooked grenades, if you can.
Bait the c4 detonation.
Keep him in the air.
Dtilt his rolls and dash attacks.
Don't fall for the dthrow tech-chase.

On Falco:
Fair a lot. A lot.
Crouch the shdl and short hop the lag cancelled ones.
Punish the predictable phantasm.
Pivot grab when you suspect he's going for the spot-dodge>grab; he likes to do this a lot at lower percentages.
Add different levels to your game; full hop, double jump and short hop so he never knows where you're headed.

Ooh great advice, thanks! Confirms lot of stuff I was kinda figuring out anyways, so that's good.

Thankfully the Falco just stands there spamming lasers and not doing anything fancy like shdl'ing, and then he *charges* smash attacks, so I can see them coming from miles away (though that unfortunately doesn't make it unavoidable, 'cause I keep getting thrown by someone/something else straight into it XD). Everything else... he uses so little it's not a problem, or he doesn't use it well or... idk. He's a really... weird... guy, and the way he plays seems to reflect that. XD

 

[M4ge]

Gonna try those first 2 options, haven't thought about those. Thanks.

 

[Pr0phetic]

If your talking about Hippie's Mario Bros playstyle, I'd have to talk to you on AIM about dealing with it, as knowing that + exp will help. His Luigi is too good -_- And I don't wanna blow his spot =x

 

[Shaya]

I didnt say tipper fsmash I don't think.

Fully decayed dtilt will still be comboing up until the point people can DI up and away if you catch someone against a wall...

130% may have been too much damage to get an fsmash out of it, but a dtilt to DB may have still worked.

Actually, decided to test it:

Fully decayed dtilt into fsmash (tipper) without any SMASH DI (normal DI wouldnt work anyway) on snake will work if you hit him as close to marths body as possible up until about 105%.
Dtilt to dancing blade will be working until about 120-130%.

 

[Jupz]

Around what percentage does the blue (up) version of DB kill at? (on mario)

Thanks in advance

 

[Lord Chair]

He follows up with dairing and tech chases as well. The grab set-up is really dangerous and leads to much more dangerous things than his true combos.

Starting from 0%:
Dthrow -> buffer grab dthrow -> gatling combo = 9+8(?)+6+15= 38% guaranteed.

Dthrow -> buffer grab dthrow -> dair = 9+8(?)+13 = 30% guaranteed.

Tech chase options are good for Falco, but you shouldn't allow him to get more than an additional 10% out of it. Gatling combo gets Marth in a bad position though, you can expect people to use both ways of dealing damage out of a grab.

 

[Reizilla]

what's the gatling combo?

 

[Player-3]

dash attack to upsmash

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

Ain't dash attack one of Marth's worst moves?
How can it be a combo?

 

[Player-3]

its a falco combo, not marth

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

Oh..ok..it sounded wrong so I had to know

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Starting from 0%:
Dthrow -> buffer grab dthrow -> gatling combo = 9+8(?)+6+15= 38% guaranteed.

Dthrow -> buffer grab dthrow -> dair = 9+8(?)+13 = 30% guaranteed.

Tech chase options are good for Falco, but you shouldn't allow him to get more than an additional 10% out of it. Gatling combo gets Marth in a bad position though, you can expect people to use both ways of dealing damage out of a grab.

Point stands that his Grab is still deadly and should be avoided ^_^

 

[Marshmallowman]

Does anyone else use their C-stick as tilts instead of smashes? i just started playing competitive brawl two and a half weeks ago, and i find it helps a lot for getting out of a smash habit, plus with tilt to jump on, you dont have to worry about accidentaly jumping instead of utilt, or moving forward a little when you ftilt.

 

[Viquey]

@Marshmallowman: I did that for a bit. It helped. Mostly broke the smashing habit (and now half the time I use fsmash is just 'cause the jump input didn't take for some reason, but what was supposed to be a fair did >.<). I ended up switching back 'cause I couldn't reliably smash when I WANTED to, especially not perfectly fast like if I had csticked it. So yeah. It works, but you may not keep it in the long run. It's either train yourself to do tilts normally on cue and cstick smashes, or train yourself to consistently smash on cue with the control stick + a and cstick tilts instead. Whatever's most comfortable for you.

Another upside to csticking tilts is that dair won't fastfall, though. xD

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Lol.


Good info there, Shaya Thanks.


"Around what percentage does the blue (up) version of DB kill at? (on mario)

Thanks in advance "

Uh if he has perfect DI and the stage is Battlefield, the DB is totally fresh and you hit with all 4 moves... not sure, but definitely between 120-180%...

@M4ge

Another thing. Are you using short hopped aerials only or are you fulling hopping them? When you approach with fairs, if you want to DI backwards but still get grabbed/attacked, then it means you should probably try to full hop more. Full hopping will still allow you to get that Fair low to the ground, and it gives good vertical height after, so you could DI to either side... If they're coming after you, you could use another aerial before you hit the ground or you could rejump, (change direction if needed) and do another aerial. Even after all this DI'ing away from them, if you think you won't make it back to the ground and you have no time to shield, remember that you can take advantage of the momentum you get from landing to make you slide a bit... So if you want to slide backwards, then just tilt the stick back as if you were walking, but input it about when you touch the ground.

@Rukkiko

oh in that case, can you tell me about his style --- I mean, how to deal with Marios like that?


@Marshmallowman

Yeah it's definitely a viable option. However I just turn tap jump off for the utilt problem. The thing about Dairs not ff'ing though is really nice .

If you can't get a reliable quick smash with the Control Stick + A, then you can practise using C-stick and Z (which I'm pretty sure works although C-stick is set to tilts...)

 

[Marshmallowman]

Can anyone link the marth combos thread? having trouble finding it

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Right here

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234060

 

[Reizilla]

What is this?! Don't talk about tap-jump off in the Marth boards! But really, you should just always learn to just tilt on command. It makes things a lot easier once you get it down and has the added advantage of using your up-b out of shield with characters like Marth and MK. The only time I use tap jump off is for characters that have a good DACUS because it makes it easier to do for me, but even then I've learned to do it with tap-jump on for Snake so I can hop with nades since it's really uncomfortable to hold B and push X.

Um, that was aimed more toward marshmallow since he said he was pretty new, he might not have known that and this is the Marth board after all...

 

[Kishin]

Is it me or are you able to fast fall quicker with a vertical dolphin slash vs. a regular one?

 

[Lord Chair]

What is this?! Don't talk about tap-jump off in the Marth boards! But really, you should just always learn to just tilt on command. It makes things a lot easier once you get it down and has the added advantage of using your up-b out of shield with characters like Marth and MK. The only time I use tap jump off is for characters that have a good DACUS because it makes it easier to do for me, but even then I've learned to do it with tap-jump on for Snake so I can hop with nades since it's really uncomfortable to hold B and push X.

Um, that was aimed more toward marshmallow since he said he was pretty new, he might not have known that and this is the Marth board after all...

I have tap jump off :D

DS OoS is very possible with tap jump off, and since DS OoS is the only real thing tap jump makes easier, you should allow people to think about their options themselves. Controller settings are built on comfort, almost never on necessity. Not in this case, at least.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Is it me or are you able to fast fall quicker with a vertical dolphin slash vs. a regular one?

Lolwut? Dolphin slash is ALL vertical man.

 

[Kishin]

I don't know what to call it but...
Assuming you are facing right. If you DS normally without any DI then you land X distance to the right. If you DS and DI to the top right then when you land you'll land >X distance to the right. If you DS by holding top right then slide upwards then you'll land a little to the left from where you DS'd.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

What is this?! Don't talk about tap-jump off in the Marth boards! But really, you should just always learn to just tilt on command. It makes things a lot easier once you get it down and has the added advantage of using your up-b out of shield with characters like Marth and MK. The only time I use tap jump off is for characters that have a good DACUS because it makes it easier to do for me, but even then I've learned to do it with tap-jump on for Snake so I can hop with nades since it's really uncomfortable to hold B and push X.

Um, that was aimed more toward marshmallow since he said he was pretty new, he might not have known that and this is the Marth board after all...

Lol yea I might change to tap jump on but for now I don't feel like changing XD

@Kishin

That's just what happens when you DI with your DS... when you finish your DS, it still pushes you up a bit, and during that time you can DI. So if you hold up, you'll continue the momentum to the fullest possible, while if you hold it to a neutral vertical position such as right, then you won't be getting the full momentum from the end of the DS.

Is it me or are you able to fast fall quicker with a vertical dolphin slash vs. a regular one?

Are you talking about fast falling faster, or are you talking about reaching the ground sooner? You can't have different speeds of fast falling... if you're talking about the latter, then it's probably what I explained above, simply taking advantage of the upwards momentum, thus making you stay higher in the air, and so you don't reach the ground as soon as you do if you were to perform it otherwise.

 

[Kishin]

Oh, that explains it.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Ok good to hear Sorry if my post was confuzzleding XD.

 

[Jupz]

Thanks for that

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

quick question
can Marth do the Fthrowx3 -> Tipper Fsmash to Charizard?
i never tested it

 

[Reizilla]

quick question
can Marth do the Fthrowx3 -> Tipper Fsmash to Charizard?
i never tested it

check the Marth's True Combos thread. It has all of that. Don't remember off of the top of my head though.

 

[Broly]

yes i am sure he can. only ones i can think of that he cant do it is snake, lucario, and diddy i think

 

[Remzi]

yes i am sure he can. only ones i can think of that he cant do it is snake, lucario, and diddy i think

Nah lol, it actually doesn't work on most characters.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

I just know it works on the heavy characters..I just wanted to see if Charizard was also a victim

 

[Pr0phetic]

I'm pretty sure it can work on him, I never had a way to test it, but it seems it works on most of the heavies but Snake...

 

[Marshmallowman]

How do you use the character sprites in posts, like marth and such

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

How do you use the character sprites in posts, like marth and such

: marth :

No spaces. Or go to 'more' under 'smilies' and click his pretty face.

 

[Shaya]

I'm pretty sure Zard can't be grabbed again after an fthrow.

 

[Sake-Hato]

heres a good question,
How dose a advanced marth player evolve to the next stage?(witch would be pro level i belive)