Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Tari]

Hello Marth Boards. I was going over combos in Training Mode and for some reason, when I tried to Footstool -> Dair, it didn't work. I have that technique really down usually, but I couldn't do it for some reason. I tried it on different characters, and some were easier than others....

Any reason possibly that would make this happen?

Tis character specific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=magcZxxaO7I

Or you messed up.

 

[Nefarious B]

Hi guys

I was wondering, since you guys have your awesome dtilt with it's iasa frames, if you could help me with something.

I'm wondering how Iasa affects buffering. So let's say (random example) your dtilt had 5 IASA frames. Technically you can end the attack 5 frames early. So, since buffering involves inputs made in the last 10 frames of an attack, would you technically have 15 frames to buffer? Or do the IASAs not change anything?

 

[Pr0phetic]

Hi guys

I was wondering, since you guys have your awesome dtilt with it's iasa frames, if you could help me with something.

I'm wondering how Iasa affects buffering. So let's say (random example) your dtilt had 5 IASA frames. Technically you can end the attack 5 frames early. So, since buffering involves inputs made in the last 10 frames of an attack, would you technically have 15 frames to buffer? Or do the IASAs not change anything?

I would think that, say you buffer a dash after your Dtilt. Since Marth's has IASA frames, the dash would just occur once those frames begin, instead of as soon as the full Dtilt finishes.

 

[uhmuzing]

Tis character specific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=magcZxxaO7I

Or you messed up.

Oh... I see it now.

 

[V]

What are some good ways of approaching snake and staying inside? I have a hard time getting through all his stuff.

 

[Pr0phetic]

What are some good ways of approaching snake and staying inside? I have a hard time getting through all his stuff.

Nair's and retreating Bairs. Ofcourse the traditional Fair.

You most definitely should learn to powershield nades.

 

[V]

Nair's and retreating Bairs. Ofcourse the traditional Fair.

You most definitely should learn to powershield nades.

I do powershield them but he cooks them pretty well, so if i perfect shield and drop it to move in it blows up in my face lol. I haven't played snake too much with my marth at all. (I have like, 3-4 mains) but I realllly want to be able to **** a snake with my marth too.

 

[Tophes]

Any of you guys ever use spot dodge in your game? I rarely ever use it since I find myself to get punished too much whenever I do it. Do you think it's useful?

 

[MDJA109]

Spot dodging is highly situational, and of course you have plenty other options rather than spot dodging. I don't really use it in my gameplay as it is easily punished, and your other options are much more useful than spot dodging. The only thing that a spot dodge can do that a shield can't do is avoid a grab. You can just shut out an approaching grab with a tilt or jab, or jump to avoid the grab and punish.

 

[A1lion835]

Is there a thread listing all the marth chaingrabs? It would be really helpful for me if someone could find a link. Thx.

 

[MDJA109]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234060 that's the in progress Marth True Combo thread, it contains grab combos and chaingrabs as well

 

[A1lion835]

Thanks <3 .

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Well actually Spot dodging is usually one of your better defensive moves. Usually it's better than a roll dodge (again, this really depends on what character you are), since roll dodges only go a set distance and if the opponent's reaction time is fast enough, he can punish you. Spot dodging is sometimes slightly riskier than roll dodges of course since you're probably right next to the enemy, but since it keeps you close, unlike the roll dodge which rolls you away, you can punish them better.

But again, you always need to mix up shielding and spot dodging and roll dodging, or else the opponent will start predicting you. The balance between the three also depends on what works best against your opponent.

 

[MDJA109]

I think your alternative options are much better than spot dodging. Spot dodging is very easily punished by any multi-hit move or good reaction from your opponent, also Marth's roll isn't very good that shouldn't really be used. Rather than spot dodging, you can cancel their approach with an attack, dash back, jump back, or even just shield the last three are very viable options to go back in and punish. Just read your opponent, and make sure you know what's coming. I'm not sure however, this is just a my perspective of it.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah cancelling approaches with attacks or running back is always good too. I was talking more about close combat situations where running or counter attacking or such weren't viable and only shield, spot dodging, and rolling were applicable.

I agree that spot dodging is bad especially with multi-hits. Shield is actually probably your best choice if your grab range is larger than theirs or equal.

Anyways... Tophes have you visited since? lol

 

[MDJA109]

couldn't you just dash away as well? marth's dash ***** haha

 

[Tophes]

Visited since what? If you're talking about reading the response posts, then I've been busy reformatting the comp so I couldn't read the posts lol.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Lol yeah, dashing works too XD.

Oh lol alright XD.

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario's are having stage discussion, and seeing how there's no definite data on it from your board's discussion, we'd like more in-depth opinions on some good marth's of which stages to pick:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7801177#post7801177

 

[Bluekn16ht]

'LO people . im a new marth player . know any tips for a noob??

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

'LO people . im a new marth player . know any tips for a noob??

Read guides.
Watch pros.
Fight your betters.
Take advice.
Don't do anything stupid.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

What ToZ said

 

[Pr0phetic]

He forgot: learn to pressure smartly, space, and watch your opponent during a match, and critique yourself to find errors within your game.

 

[Tari]

Above all else.. practice, practice, practice.

 

[Bellioes]

What is Phantom Lag and how does it work? All I know is that it effects Marths a lot and that theres a way to reduce it with aerials?
Im betting you goes know more about it so Im asking here. Thanks.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I actually have never heard the term "Phantom Lag" before.

Any care to explain and answer his question? Guess it have to appear with the disapperance of hitboxes or something?

 

[C.J.]

If I had to guess, I'd bet that he's talking about the triple jump glitch.

Edit:
Rukkiko when are you going to get around to updating your thread darn it!

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

He forgot: learn to pressure smartly, space, and watch your opponent during a match, and critique yourself to find errors within your game.

I don't forget anything. Ever.

Pressure smartly-watch pros, experience.
Space-watch pros, read guides, experience.
Watching Opponents-experience.
Self Critique-experience

 

[hippiedude92]

K I need a serious answer for this. Kays so as a Marth player, it's prolly the worst gayest case that you choke esp when you know your better against someone, and if it's a char that marth has like 6/4 or 7/3, it just doesn't work since l'm choking >.> so my question is vv *oh and everyone knows marth is just gay when the user is choking lol*

Anyone have a solution to a person who is good at observation skills but medicore in tech skill and a person that seems to choke alot and esp if he's down by alot in terms of %/stocks or what not, then starts thinking of massive johns in the back of his head and loses his focus/mentality on the match. *that person would be me T.T*

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, I do.
Practice a LOT, preferably with friends, but even if that means dummying around with cpus. Sounds rediculous, but it certainly helps with tech-chase skill (you can't rely on looking at controller lol, so you have to make your punishes more safe), but a few other things too.

How exactly do you choke? My biggest problem was recovery, because I was used to lucario's HUGE ledge sweetspot and curvability.

 

[hippiedude92]

I mean it comes in different ways, I mean **** PD even saw me lose to a NONE-USING NADE SNAKE and I still lost to a close set with my Marth. Shoulda been a legitmate win lol. And I don't look at my controller XD. But the part I def don't understand is how people can be in training mode for like hours, that's like hell to me lol.

but anyways, my choking is just blergh different. Like there's times where i'm like hella shaking as ***, i can barely input my commands, I'm running away like a ******, (like my usual fighting stance would be fairs and what not, but here I am running away and airdodging and ****, and exposing my blind spot), theres other times where l choke like, as l said before, if im down by alot, in the back of my head i'm already thinking of johns but obv in real life, no one would care, i just shake the hand and gtfo and prolly sulk abit lol.

and yeah recovery too sometimes, sometimes im always so nervous, that i miss the sweetspot for a the ledge. Also if i'm db1 stall, i sometimes end up doing a full db instead of doing db stall > upb sweetspot >_> feels so embrassing. Theres alot of times where i just throw out a fsmash unsafely when l could of just dtilt them x.x

 

[adumbrodeus]

I mean it comes in different ways, I mean **** PD even saw me lose to a NONE-USING NADE SNAK ...

When did you fight me? I don't remember ever playing you.

Spoiler

Lol, yea, my snake is awful, that's why I basically never use him

 

[hippiedude92]

lol ohey lookie, he found both of my posts on different boards though xD (I use both characters btw, wanted a good answer since l know luigi's aren't hella active rofl)

**** you almost made me believe I did play you before ._. omg lmfao. *wait did l play you before? lmfao*

edit: nvm my first part of the post, i swear im seeing the same people, fxking 5am all nighters lol.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Hey i have a problem guys

I have a very lame friend who always pick MetaKnight whenever i go with Marth. He also plays so lame, that i can't find a way how to properly put him on his place. He's a MetaKnight who is mostly on the ground, spamming Roll Dodges and Dsmashes. Use Side-B frequently. He always rolls behind me when he can because he can Dsmash me then. Although i predict some of his moves, sometimes i think he's gonna roll behind me and wait for it, but instead he does something else. It's very annoying and i don't know how to counter such MetaKnights. MetaKnight's Roll Dodge is also pretty fast ;o; What can i do guys?

Note: I always beat him, but he does beat me sometimes though. He doesn't even play competitively, yet he almost beats me, and he's like: ''I dont have to learn all those crap**** you're doing like Spacing etc.'' It annoys me sooooo much.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that when i play a different character than Marth, and i play against his MetaKnight, i pwn him so badly. Its just that he knows how i play with Marth, and the problem is that i can't mix things up so good. I usually have 1 pattern and i dunno how to mix-up things x.x

 

[C.box]

Hey i have a problem guys

I have a very lame friend who always pick MetaKnight whenever i go with Marth. He also plays so lame, that i can't find a way how to properly put him on his place. He's a MetaKnight who is mostly on the ground, spamming Roll Dodges and Dsmashes. Use Side-B frequently. He always rolls behind me when he can because he can Dsmash me then. Although i predict some of his moves, sometimes i think he's gonna roll behind me and wait for it, but instead he does something else. It's very annoying and i don't know how to counter such MetaKnights. MetaKnight's Roll Dodge is also pretty fast ;o; What can i do guys?

Note: I always beat him, but he does beat me sometimes though. He doesn't even play competitively, yet he almost beats me, and he's like: ''I dont have to learn all those crap**** you're doing like Spacing etc.'' It annoys me sooooo much.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that when i play a different character than Marth, and i play against his MetaKnight, i pwn him so badly. Its just that he knows how i play with Marth, and the problem is that i can't mix things up so good. I usually have 1 pattern and i dunno how to mix-up things x.x

1. Don't approach.

2. Counter/ shield side b's.

3 Use dancing blade to punish him rolling behind you

 

[Bellioes]

I actually have never heard the term "Phantom Lag" before.

Any care to explain and answer his question? Guess it have to appear with the disapperance of hitboxes or something?

No, someone said it has something to do with UpBing and then grabbing the ledge before its over or something. Oh, and that it affects Marth a lot. Sorry but thats all I can tell you

 

[Xisin]

No, someone said it has something to do with UpBing and then grabbing the ledge before its over or something. Oh, and that it affects Marth a lot. Sorry but thats all I can tell you

What I'm getting from this is you are up-bing and sweet spotting the ledge then getting up. However because you hit the ledge with your up-b you will lag upon your next aerial yes? I call it ds lag... but eh to each their own. captain Falcon is also effected by this sadly. Not much i found to do about it, exept try and ff a nair or fair when you can get away with it after you recover (IF you can get away with it! most smart people will try and ledge trap you which is easy to do to against marth.)

Hey i have a problem guys

I have a very lame friend who always pick MetaKnight whenever i go with Marth. He also plays so lame, that i can't find a way how to properly put him on his place. He's a MetaKnight who is mostly on the ground, spamming Roll Dodges and Dsmashes. Use Side-B frequently. He always rolls behind me when he can because he can Dsmash me then. Although i predict some of his moves, sometimes i think he's gonna roll behind me and wait for it, but instead he does something else. It's very annoying and i don't know how to counter such MetaKnights. MetaKnight's Roll Dodge is also pretty fast ;o; What can i do guys?

Note: I always beat him, but he does beat me sometimes though. He doesn't even play competitively, yet he almost beats me, and he's like: ''I dont have to learn all those crap**** you're doing like Spacing etc.'' It annoys me sooooo much.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that when i play a different character than Marth, and i play against his MetaKnight, i pwn him so badly. Its just that he knows how i play with Marth, and the problem is that i can't mix things up so good. I usually have 1 pattern and i dunno how to mix-up things x.x

if the mk side bs into you hes a fool. pretty simple... just shield it then up-b it, or you can do the counter option I personally prefer up-bing though. If he rolls behind you, just pivot a dancing blade towards him before he finishes the roll. or you can do a retrating fair. whatever works. Dealing with dsmash can be annoying but easy once you learn it. if a mk dsmashes and you shield it thats a free side b, however you must be fast about it.

edit- regarding the mk heres are two threads that should help you out. Pierce madea thread on situational stuff http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234559

and heres havok's old thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203056

 

[ninjablah]

can anyone put up a reply that could get me a good place to learn marth combos. cause im new to marth so i dont alot of great combos

 

[Pr0phetic]

can anyone put up a reply that could get me a good place to learn marth combos. cause im new to marth so i dont alot of great combos

Click here to find what you need.

 

[Bellioes]

What I'm getting from this is you are up-bing and sweet spotting the ledge then getting up. However because you hit the ledge with your up-b you will lag upon your next aerial yes? I call it ds lag... but eh to each their own. captain Falcon is also effected by this sadly. Not much i found to do about it, exept try and ff a nair or fair when you can get away with it after you recover (IF you can get away with it! most smart people will try and ledge trap you which is easy to do to against marth.)

So if I understood correctly, when Marth hits the ledge after UpBing, then the next time he lands on stage he will receive lag.

Well Ive been asking around and someone said that theres two different kinds of lag. If you land with an aerial, then you will get normal aerial lag even if the aerial should have autocanceled. And the other type of lag is where you just land normally. Here you get as much lag as if you had just landed after an UpB (which is a lot). To alleviate the most lag possible, the Nair has the least amount of landing lag and its definitely better than landing normally.

So much question is; is all of this true or did I not understand correctly? Also, is this the reason why I see so many videos where Marth ledge hop a Nair after UpB onto the ledge?