Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Pierce7d]

What is the safest way to recover while pit shoots arrows at you?

edit: (when you're in a position that you have to do more than hold right/left and airdodge)

edit2: yes i mean when pit is on the stage.

Fair through them, I wouldn't recommend counter or airdodge, but if you DIed whatever hit got you off stage properly, this isn't bad. Try and reserve your jump till at least the second arrow, or, recover low and arrows aren't much of a problem.

At what distance should I start using brickwalls?

When you're ready to start camping, preferably when you have control of the center of the stage, and when your opponent is not in range to hit you. Being in tipper range is irrelevant, because you'll hopefully be moving around/mixing up your brickwall, or it will be easily shattered.

 

[Mazaloth]

When you're ready to start camping, preferably when you have control of the center of the stage, and when your opponent is not in range to hit you. Being in tipper range is irrelevant, because you'll hopefully be moving around/mixing up your brickwall, or it will be easily shattered.

I find that whenever I do the brickwalls, my opponents just get around it. Mostly by PS'ing, Backdodging then going forward and limiting my space, Rolling behind me, or using another attack to disrupt the attack.

Are there anyways to make this more effective? Because there is lag between the fall of the SH, another attack/Shff. This is where they punish me with a smash.

I can't seem to get enough space, and when I do they 'push' me to the edge.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Hey guys.

I was just playing my friend's Sheik with my Marth on Lylat and I went offstage to gimp him and I ended up footstooling him, and then I FF'ed and accidentally Uair'ed and it hit. I dunno if he tried to DI after the footstool, but the Uair connected. I don't know if the stage had something to do with it, but I thought it was interesting.

Also:

Is Fair to Uair a viable combo/string on any characters? I've pulled it off a lot, and I can normally SHFair->Uair->Utilt, for a pretty good chunk of damage.

I doubt either of these are viable though.

 

[magikguy]

fair to uair gets me shield grabbed -_-" , not worth it

 

[KillL0ck]

Would it be safe to say that IF I hit my opponent's shied(Say with Fair, also excluding power-shielding) that I would be SAFE from a shield grab? Assuming I make it 4 frames worthy? It's always bothered me when I've gotten shield grabbed from regular shield pressure.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Would it be safe to say that IF I hit my opponent's shied(Say with Fair, also excluding power-shielding) that I would be SAFE from a shield grab? Assuming I make it 4 frames worthy? It's always bothered me when I've gotten shield grabbed from regular shield pressure.

Depends on how good your spacing is, and if you have your double jump helps.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Would it be safe to say that IF I hit my opponent's shied(Say with Fair, also excluding power-shielding) that I would be SAFE from a shield grab? Assuming I make it 4 frames worthy? It's always bothered me when I've gotten shield grabbed from regular shield pressure.

As said before, all depends on spacing. Sometimes it's good to mix it up and just jump over your opponent though and maybe Uair or something, but that's only if you're getting really obvious and need to mix up your game. Just try to space well enough to tipper yet stay far away from your opponent, especially if you're playing D3 or something.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yes, but you need to be good with spacing/DI, especially with DDD... Against characters except for DDD and a few others, a tippered Fair will keep you safe from being shield grabbed. However, if you have your double jump, just like Rukkiko said, and you're up against someone like DDD and you know they'll try to grab you, then double jump away, or if they'll predict that, then go over them to mix it up. NEO does this a lot against ICs, he Fairs at them, then he immediately double jumps so he's too high to be grabbed... you can see some videos of him using this technique a lot in the Marth Video Thread.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I find that whenever I do the brickwalls, my opponents just get around it. Mostly by PS'ing, Backdodging then going forward and limiting my space, Rolling behind me, or using another attack to disrupt the attack.

Are there anyways to make this more effective? Because there is lag between the fall of the SH, another attack/Shff. This is where they punish me with a smash.

I can't seem to get enough space, and when I do they 'push' me to the edge.

Your being overtly defensive probably, which really doesn't work in this metagame.

 

[Pierce7d]

Fair - Uair isn't a combo. It simply punishes your opponent for poor DI/not airdodging.

 

[Lord Chair]

Anything specific in DIing with Marth, or just DI > fair > DJ > FF?

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Anything specific in DIing with Marth, or just DI > fair > DJ > FF?

when recovering use Shieldbreaker once you have some forward momentum. it increases your momentum and helps your horizontal recovery. and remember to DI towards the corners.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

when recovering use Shieldbreaker once you have some forward momentum. it increases your momentum and helps your horizontal recovery. and remember to DI towards the corners.

No, shielbreaker recovery is bad. Too punishable.



:sniper:

 

[Lord Chair]

when recovering use Shieldbreaker once you have some forward momentum. it increases your momentum and helps your horizontal recovery. and remember to DI towards the corners.

Because once you charge it no one sees it coming? Overly situational, and almost never really needed to get back to the stage :/

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

No, shielbreaker recovery is bad. Too punishable.



:sniper:

Because once you charge it no one sees it coming? Overly situational, and almost never really needed to get back to the stage :/

you don't need to charge it all the way. all you have to do is tap it and you will move forward a bit faster than normal and you can still use any aerials or movies that you would be able to normally

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Then why don't you just move over to the stage in the air? Way easier and safer.

If you charge SB and someone's trying to gimp you then you're vulnerable while you charge, but if you just maneuver over to the stage, then you're not really vulnerable at all.

 

[thaxceptional1]

where is the exact sweet spots of the down air?

 

[A1lion835]

What are some of marth's worst and best stages? The kirby boards are discussing him here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221595.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Dair's sweetspot is at the tip, just like all of his attacks, although it may not seem like it. And i mean the tip all around the swing of the sword, not just directly below him.
One of the best, if not best, stages for Marth is Battlefield. Long maps without many platforms and/or has a high vertical blastzone are bad. I'd have to say 75m is his worst (jk).

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

What are some of marth's worst and best stages? The kirby boards are discussing him here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221595.

Thanks for contributing.

Best would be Battlefield and Delfino, worst Neutral is Yoshi's, and worst overall is prolly Japes.

 

[Mazaloth]

Your being overtly defensive probably, which really doesn't work in this metagame.

My Marth =/= Defensive

 

[mosesrko24]

I already asked this in the general thread, but how do you guys think Marth should be played in doubles?

Does EL's old thread apply?

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

I already asked this in the general thread, but how do you guys think Marth should be played in doubles?

Does EL's old thread apply?

i use him wif ike for kicks and giggles

he's pretty good for team attack on.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Best would be Battlefield and Delfino, worst Neutral is Yoshi's, and worst overall is prolly Japes.

Heh I was thinking of Japes being his worst, but I really have almost no experience on that map XD. But man, that stage's vertical blastzone is so messed up :/.

Delfino is a good stage? O RLY?!

Why would you say his worst neutral is Yoshi's? Just want to hear your reasoning. Although worst doesn't mean bad, I think Final Destination would be his worst, simply because there are no platforms. And occasionally, the lip can mess up any kind of tricks you may try to do off stage. The platform in Yoshi's is pretty useful.

An example of the lip being bad... let's say someone just edgehogged you, and you didn't see it coming somehow, and you already used Up B. Well, you may not make it onto the edge of the stage. BUT, let's say they edgehogged you, and you are still high enough to Up B through the edge and land on the stage. Then FD's lip becomes a problem because it'd trap you most likely, while let's say if you were on Smashville, you would be able to go "through" the stage and land on the edge.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197672


Kinda outdated.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Mm ok thanks for the link

 

[Chileno4Live]

I am thinking of this for a long time. But isn't Full hop Dair a good approach? Or just a move that we/i could use? From the ground, a shorthop Dair will have landing lag, but Full hop Dair has your side and beneath you completely covered right? Or am i wrong?

 

[Shaya]

Approaching? No. Not really. People can see it coming haha.

Defensive manouver? yes.
Some characters have issues dealing with vertical spacing, generally the ones with slow running speed.
I use full hop dairs quite a lot against Dedede (not at kill percents) and Wolf.

It's a good out of shield option as it covers both sides of you, beating out most character's cross overs.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Heh I was thinking of Japes being his worst, but I really have almost no experience on that map XD. But man, that stage's vertical blastzone is so messed up :/.

Delfino is a good stage? O RLY?!

Why would you say his worst neutral is Yoshi's? Just want to hear your reasoning. Although worst doesn't mean bad, I think Final Destination would be his worst, simply because there are no platforms. And occasionally, the lip can mess up any kind of tricks you may try to do off stage. The platform in Yoshi's is pretty useful.

An example of the lip being bad... let's say someone just edgehogged you, and you didn't see it coming somehow, and you already used Up B. Well, you may not make it onto the edge of the stage. BUT, let's say they edgehogged you, and you are still high enough to Up B through the edge and land on the stage. Then FD's lip becomes a problem because it'd trap you most likely, while let's say if you were on Smashville, you would be able to go "through" the stage and land on the edge.

Delfino is not a good Marth stage, contrary to popular belief. Well, at least it's better for everyone else (almost) lol

FD is okay for Marth because he has a lot of room to move around and against a character like MK can space without anything getting in the way. It also allows him to air release MK, Wario, and Squirtle easier.

On Yoshi's, the ridges in the stage can seriously eff your spacing up, as can the Shy Guys. Would be gimps on your opponents are ceased by Rodger the ******** Ghost going "LOL IMA COME UP HERE NAO DAT K WITU?". The middle platform not only ****s any potential for air release things up but just doesn't really set up for anything of Marth's, especially if tipped up, along with providing your opponent with a nice chunk of the stage dedicated to a line which seperates the juggle-trappable Marth from hitting ground.

So it's not an issue of what is better for him really as much of cons weighed against cons lol.

JAPES IS NOT A GOD **** LEGAL STAGE WHERE THINGS MATTER, PEOPLE NEED TO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT LIKE IT EXISTS. Christ people, get over it.

And when it is legal, expect me to play Falco and do very gay things

 

[Chileno4Live]

Approaching? No. Not really. People can see it coming haha.

Defensive manouver? yes.
Some characters have issues dealing with vertical spacing, generally the ones with slow running speed.
I use full hop dairs quite a lot against Dedede (not at kill percents) and Wolf.

It's a good out of shield option as it covers both sides of you, beating out most character's cross overs.

Alright thnx i'll try to implement it into my game.

And lol at the post above. I, myself hate Yoshi Island alone. It's a **** stage and that ghost thing that pops up out of nowhere always helps my opponent, but when i need it, it doesn't come. One time i had the bad luck: I died, and 1 second later it popped up. Then later my opponent was about to die and what comes? Yep, the ghost >.< I hate it I only like it when i play VS diddy or IC's

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Alright thnx i'll try to implement it into my game.

And lol at the post above. I, myself hate Yoshi Island alone. It's a **** stage and that ghost thing that pops up out of nowhere always helps my opponent, but when i need it, it doesn't come. One time i had the bad luck: I died, and 1 second later it popped up. Then later my opponent was about to die and what comes? Yep, the ghost >.< I hate it I only like it when i play VS diddy or IC's

I was bout to get a +/-50% gimp spiked on this guy for the final stock: I pivoted, full hopped, fastfalled, jumped and daired . JUST before reaching the dz: ghost. bam. i lost (as i was above 100% already) and hated yoshi's since.

 

[clowsui]

Yoshi's is actually not that bad for Marth, it's my primary CP next to Smashville and BF. Most people ban BF, and if they are projectile users or have severe mobility problems with the platform (e.g. ZSS, Kirby) I pick YI rather than SV. I prefer this much more to LC, which gimps the **** out of me 24/7.

On Yoshi's, the ridges in the stage can seriously eff your spacing up, as can the Shy Guys. Would be gimps on your opponents are ceased by Rodger the ******** Ghost going "LOL IMA COME UP HERE NAO DAT K WITU?". The middle platform not only ****s any potential for air release things up but just doesn't really set up for anything of Marth's, especially if tipped up, along with providing your opponent with a nice chunk of the stage dedicated to a line which seperates the juggle-trappable Marth from hitting ground.

JAPES IS NOT A GOD **** LEGAL STAGE WHERE THINGS MATTER, PEOPLE NEED TO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT LIKE IT EXISTS. Christ people, get over it.

And when it is legal, expect me to play Falco and do very gay things

1. The middle platform doesn't DO anything in the way of juggle traps unless you're ******** and you're standing on the lower part or you refuse to drop down. If you stand on the higher part they have to try and call you out and jump up. Meanwhile, you can just choose to jump around, bait them to come up onto the plat and FF to someplace else. The platform tilted up helps Marth exercise his excellent fullhop option from the ledge. I'll agree hesitantly that it does have the potential to put Marth in bad situations though.
2. The ridges help you ledgesnap way easier than normal, not to mention they help you reset shieldpush situations better from the getup. They are also a rather easy/nice marker for the placement of ledgetraps; placing yourself 1/2 Marths away from the ridge is a perfect range for traps.
3. Most MKs dislike this stage because it's bad for their Tornado....but it's also not bad for them. /shrug
4. To solve Rodger-saves, just apply more pressure off the edge, expecting Rodger to come up always. It's rather impractical, but it gets the job done.

Also way to be arrogant. Japes is legal in the MW...which I'm pretty sure is actually growing in skill at a ridiculous pace. Note that Falco gets destroyed on Japes by Snake, Peach, and Olimar, all people who can simply camp out on the middle platform and **** the balls off of you if you decide to approach them on that platform.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Yoshi's is actually not that bad for Marth, it's my primary CP next to Smashville and BF. Most people ban BF, and if they are projectile users or have severe mobility problems with the platform (e.g. ZSS, Kirby) I pick YI rather than SV. I prefer this much more to LC, which gimps the **** out of me 24/7.

yeah, i cp SV loads and never pick lylat. lylat is queer.

 

[Pr0phetic]

yeah, i cp SV loads and never pick lylat. lylat is queer.

Lylat has to grow on you, as it is a good CP/Neutral for Marth.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Eh I don't like Lylat, I hate the way it tilts XD.

I like BF and SV most.

About the Shy Guys on Yoshi's Island: Do they have similar effects, as to the balloon on SV? As in, let's say your Fair is staled to its max. Then you hit a shy guy(s) with some uairs, will your Fair unstale a bit?
But yeah the "ghost" thing is what keeps me from picking Yoshi's too much.

 

[Pierce7d]

The sloped ground disrupting your spacing should be far more detrimental than the ghost.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Any TO who allows Japes is ********. I'm sorry, it's true. I'm not being arrogant, but the EC has the best TOs in the country and Japes is banned at every major event, more or less.

Yoshi's is significantly worse for Marth than FD in almost all situations. The only characters I could see myself doing okay against there are ROB and maybe...i don't even know lol. MK shouldn't even be using the Tornado much against Marth if he knows what he's doing but I find it extra hard to not get gimped on this stage by him, and the middle platform only adds to my woes as MK is superb at juggling Marth.

Clearly you're not familiar with hyperbolic speech. I'm exaggerating my points because I am a frequent debater and always attempt to make things sound much better/worse than they are. When I say the middle stage is terrible for Marth and that it sets up for juggle traps for your opponents, of course I know there's ways around it, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it isn't particularly beneficial in any way, and at (often)times even harmful. Also, I have a passionate hate for Yoshi's =)

As an added point, I love Lylat when I'm on my A game but hate it when not playing to my best potential or against MK. Lylat against spacies <33333333

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm getting killed so badly as marth when trying to recover onto FD/smashville. Any suggestions for learning to angle the recovery better so you don't hit the lip/underside?

 

[Xisin]

Clearly you're not familiar with hyperbolic speech. I'm exaggerating my points because I am a frequent debater and always attempt to make things sound much better/worse than they are. When I say the middle stage is terrible for Marth and that it sets up for juggle traps for your opponents, of course I know there's ways around it, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it isn't particularly beneficial in any way, and at (often)times even harmful. Also, I have a passionate hate for Yoshi's =)

Don't exagerate your answers this isnt a debate this is you trying to answer questions for other marths. you are trying to help people not win arguments. Yoshi's is good against Pit, falco, PK kids and others those shy guys help us more than they hurt us against some... mainly people who use projectiles that are disrupted by them. The only really terrible thing on Yoshi's is the slope of the stage. the platform is eh to me helps sometimes other it doesnt. I don't think its a weak stage for marth... never have... i just prefer others.

 

[clowsui]

Any TO who allows Japes is ********. I'm sorry, it's true. I'm not being arrogant, but the EC has the best TOs in the country and Japes is banned at every major event, more or less.


Stop stating your opinion as fact. Any good debater knows that he gets nowhere with whoever he's debating with when he denounces an entire region's TOs based on the matter of STAGE LEGALITY, something which is entirely subjective. Your manner of argument is rather erroneous, too -- "Everybody in my area makes good decisions. This stage is banned at every tournament. Therefore a good decision is to ban this stage." That's full of **** and you know it.

Yoshi's is significantly worse for Marth than FD in almost all situations. The only characters I could see myself doing okay against there are ROB and maybe...i don't even know lol. MK shouldn't even be using the Tornado much against Marth if he knows what he's doing but I find it extra hard to not get gimped on this stage by him, and the middle platform only adds to my woes as MK is superb at juggling Marth.

Did I ever compare it to FD? You're debating me on grounds that I never even tried to argue on. You make YI seem like the worst neutral for Marth...when it's largely matchup dependent. Marth does garbage on FD and Halberd too, both of which could function as starters. Rethinking it I will agree with you that MK is terrible to fight on this stage, but Marth definitely does well on YI. Slops are only minorly disruptive to your spacing/zoning in my experience.

Clearly you're not familiar with hyperbolic speech. I'm exaggerating my points because I am a frequent debater and always attempt to make things sound much better/worse than they are. When I say the middle stage is terrible for Marth and that it sets up for juggle traps for your opponents, of course I know there's ways around it, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it isn't particularly beneficial in any way, and at (often)times even harmful. Also, I have a passionate hate for Yoshi's =)

Debaters are not known for using hyperbolic speech; they are known for destroying the opponent using clear language that is not expanded in any way. The platform of Yoshi's is equally helpful as it is damaging - you can set up your own juggles on the platform, it's something nice to ledgejump onto and the angles make it so that you can apply shield pressure and shield poke...make them panic.

As an added point, I love Lylat when I'm on my A game but hate it when not playing to my best potential or against MK. Lylat against spacies <33333333

Most spacies have secondaries for Marth anyways, once you pick Lylat they know to switch.

Responses in bold. No grudge against you PD but please stop trashing my region's TOs as "********" when EC has bad TOs by the dozens.