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[ballin4life]

If you use a move up enough in the air that the ending lag does not matter, then yeah. Just double jump off of the top of the highest hyrule platform and use a non fast-fall Ness d-air.

Ness dair always auto cancels...


Also I'm surprised at people saying Tornado is worse than Pokemon. Tornado you at least can typically see / hear it coming - the pokemon can pop out any time the door is open it seems.

 

[kys]

I've seen Tornados directly affect the outcome of a match.

I've never seen Pokemon do that, although I can see it happening. It's more of a non-issue in a competitive setting because no one plays Saffron.

 

[prisonchild]

how can being thrown/hit into an electrode at 50% for a ko not be worse than a little 'nado?


also isn't saffron banned because ness has no hope of recovering down the two pillars?

 

[kys]

Can't tell if serious?

The circumstances for being hit/thrown into an electrode at 50% are really rare. But I'll play along.

You could DI to the wall so you're not gonna die from an electrode at 50%.

Getting put in a Hyrule nado at 50%: Depending on who you are, your matchup, and where it is, you could very well be killed from it (DK punch, Luigi upb, Jiggly Rest, Samus Charge Shot, any dair, any hit to edgeguard, or the platform nado). Either way, in both circumstances it changes the game in a way it shouldn't in competitive play. So there's not a huge point in arguing it. Also, as I SAID B4, no one plays Saffron.

I'm not going to go into ALL the different ways nados are absolutely mind-blowingly horrible, because it should be self-evident.

The rule is that a Ness can ask for another stage or ban Saffron or whatever. Just a character specific thing. It's not a big deal. Most characters are screwed anyways if they get stuck in one of the pillars.

 

[asianaussie]

ness isn't even super-disadvantaged on saffron tbh

 

[TANK64]

Pokemon are not even a real problem lol.

Nados on the other hand create deaths that affect games on an almost per game basis.

Spoiler

Seriously though, when I play online I lose like two stock A GAME to some nado bs.

Spoiler

Granted online I play with sound off, but still that's some "bad luck."

I want to be good at smash not controlling the weather.

 

[ballin4life]

You can plan a pretty picnic but you can't predict the weather

 

[The Star King]

Yeah you can it's called meteorology

 

[ballin4life]

I was talking about Hyrule


But even in reality weather is notoriously hard to predict. That ****'s complicated yo.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2008/04/21/how-valid-are-tv-weather-forecasts/

If you don't want to read the whole blog post I think this quote from a meteorologist sums it up:
“We have no idea what’s going to happen [in the weather] beyond three days out.”

 

[The Star King]

Dude I sooooo that coming rofl. Know you too well ballin

I was joking, for the record. I know it's hard to predict

 

[prisonchild]

yeah rest as jiggles and get blown off the edge on DL and tell me something is not wrong

 

[Hiphiphooray]

In reference to Saffron vs Hyrule, I would assume most people have much more experience to draw on about how Hyrule screwed them over. If everyone played Saffron as much as they played Hyrule, I would think there would be much more complaints about how unfair it really is. This is just my guess though.

100 matches played on hyrule, tornado screws me 10 times and someone camps 10 times.
10 matches played on saffron, and no camps or random gimmicks... saffron is obviously better

 

[AtotheZ]

I guess the only solution is to host a tourney with only banned stages to get to the bottom of this

 

[Han Solo]

Apex is just around the corner, and I've been watching tons of videos of last apex. One video in particular kind of annoyed me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYKV1O-tGlk

It seems like when one player messed up, they would swear or yell pretty loudly. If I were the other player I would be annoyed and really distracted because something like that would draw me out of the game. I read the backroom recommended ruleset, and it doesn't seem like it addresses anything like this. If it were someone in the crowd, I could probably ignore it, but it's a lot harder when this person is sitting right next to you.

 

[KnitePhox]

im going to be joking and trying to make my opponent laugh during matches....maybe.

but nothing akin to (massive melee drama thread lolo) inui-->unknown in terms of volume




practice up general conversation during Skype Smash sessions....imo, more people should skype smash aside from all this







how come..every ****ING time......

 

[Cobrevolution]

just registered. lord, that fee. i thought i already paid for the student center to host **** in my goddamn tuition.

 

[Yobolight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEBWIrFlKY4&feature=youtu.be

Tell me what Falcon and Ness are doing wrong.

Edit: but mostly Ness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0nmja6BxGc&feature=youtu.be

I want to go to the next level, but I don't know what that would be.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEBWIrFlKY4&feature=youtu.be

Tell me what Falcon and Ness are doing wrong.

Edit: but mostly Ness.

That falcon needs to stop using his mediocre moves like dash attack and dsmash. There are a lot of better options. Versus ness in particular I like bair and ftilt. Maybe a surprise fkick if you're a man.

I don't play ness but it didn't seem like you were doing anything super wrong. You yo-yo'd one of falcons recoveries that you should have just aerial'd and then aerial'd one that you should have yo-yo'd. But it seemed solid overall. You should just play better people. Online maybe? You seem awfully committed to this game to not spend $10 for an adapter.

This is all just my very humble opinion

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Your ness is fine, I would want to see it vs. someone who isn't that bad.

Use more DJC b-airs imo

 

[Yobolight]

Your ness is fine, I would want to see it vs. someone who isn't that bad.

Use more DJC b-airs imo

I don't get how my opponent is bad?

 

[ballin4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEBWIrFlKY4&feature=youtu.be

Tell me what Falcon and Ness are doing wrong.

Edit: but mostly Ness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0nmja6BxGc&feature=youtu.be

I want to go to the next level, but I don't know what that would be.

In Video 1:

Falcon needs to jump out more with aerials when edgeguarding ness. Falcon really needs to do more to not let Ness get back with just a double jump. Once Ness is forced to upB edgeguarding is really easy, so Falcon wants to try really hard to force Ness into that situation. Falcon's bair should beat all of Ness's aerials that he can do when double jumping back to the stage.

Falcon should use less forward air in combos. Falcon should use usmash more (both in combos and as an approach / defense against an approach.

For Ness combos after doing a bunch of utilts/uairs you can do weak hit nair -> bair rather than just bair as the finisher. Racks up a little more damage and hits them a bit further off the edge.

At 2:45 or so I don't like your combo in the tent. Try to hit off the walls in there for a longer combo.


Video 2:

At 1:20 or so you utilted on shield - should go for the DJC shield break here. You do the same again around 3:10

 

[Yobolight]

For Ness combos after doing a bunch of utilts/uairs you can do weak hit nair -> bair rather than just bair as the finisher. Racks up a little more damage and hits them a bit further off the edge.

Can I get a video of the weak nair -> bair?

At 1:20 or so you utilted on shield - should go for the DJC shield break here. You do the same again around 3:10

My opponents don't let me shield break anymore. Unless I am doing something wrong, it seems they can always roll out of the shield pressure.

 

[kys]

You're not fast enough if they're rolling out of shield pressure. When shield breaks are done properly nothing can be done to get out of them.

Honestly, don't even bother going for the shield break. Just get the grab.

 

[Yobolight]

Honestly, don't even bother going for the shield break. Just get the grab.

Exactamundo

I am pretty sure I am almost as fast you can go and have the move come out. Perhaps DJC Uair is not fast enough?

 

[Battlecow]

nope. You just need to be faster. You can break with uair and dair and even nair (no one does nair).

often shield breaking's better than getting the grab

practice practice practice

keep in mind the timing's different on shield than on air

 

[The Star King]

Remember that stale moves = less shieldstun

 

[Yobolight]

keep in mind the timing's different on shield than on air

Remember that stale moves = less shieldstun

Two helpful points of info.
I now understand why I see people doing flashy shield beaks.

 

[ballin4life]

nope. You just need to be faster. You can break with uair and dair and even nair (no one does nair).

often shield breaking's better than getting the grab

practice practice practice

keep in mind the timing's different on shield than on air

I use nair, it works pretty well. I kinda like alternating between nair/uair/dair.

Can I get a video of the weak nair -> bair?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cN7cH8zuxc

First combo. Pretend the dair at the end is a bair

 

[The Star King]

I personally prefer weak reverse fair because weak nair's higher ending lag makes it feel like it combos in less situations. Higher %s are required for weak reverse fair though.

Or so I claim. Because I actually think I use nair more. I know things but my Ness has a lot of things to implement. But there you go, Ness isn't a simplistic character, which I like. Anyways I'm digressing like usual.

 

[Yobolight]

Weak Reverse Fairs are the biggest myth. I have never seen someone actually do one in a combo intentionally. I know they are possible, but the set up to string it is infuriating IMO. The angle failure is the biggest draw back to it.

@Ballin The problem I see with with weak nair is that the victim falls to low. I fear a ground tech if the vid you showed me would have been in the center of Hyrule.

 

[The Star King]

They're not really much harder to do than nair after a dair or uair... What do you mean by angle failure?

Jeez discussions like this make me want to upload videos

 

[SheerMadness]

Yobo you're way too close minded man.

You essentially dismiss anything that you haven't seen or hasn't happened to you first hand.

Weak reverse fairs are very possible and I've had them done to me. Definitely by Peek and possibly Frogles too.

It's also not impossible to find visual examples either. I sincerely suggest you go on youtube and search "Sima Ness", and watch literally every video of his you can find. That'll teach you a thing or two.

 

[Yobolight]

They're not really much harder to do than nair after a dair or uair... What do you mean by angle failure?

Jeez discussions like this make me want to upload videos

Is the reverse fair DJC boosted? because those are freaking hard.

If not DJCing, I suppose that worldn't be too difficult. I need to not DJC everything.

 

[The Star King]

Wut. Reverse weak fair instead of nair... IDK how you would think that's DJC. It's usually a full hop.

 

[SheerMadness]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMWt0gMwPPU

1:56 of that video is another good example of how weak nair works.

I actually thought I remembered it being a weak reverse fair, which is why I looked it up. But it's just a nair. Still a stick combo though.

EDIT: Yobo you need to be more open minded. Just because you can't do something doesn't mean it's not possible. Especially since you have no experience with the competitive scene.

 

[The Star King]

Sheer that's a nair lol >_> but I actually think that's a better example of a nice place to use nair than what ballin posted (but he always gotta link his own videos I guess)

Dang I got ninja'd a bit

I need to see your shiny new Ness btw

 

[SheerMadness]

I meant nair yo.

My ness is too pro.

 

[ballin4life]

I personally prefer weak reverse fair because weak nair's higher ending lag makes it feel like it combos in less situations. Higher %s are required for weak reverse fair though.

I like weak reverse fair at higher percents when nair will hit too far away. It seems like a pretty small percent window though where weak reverse fair works but weak nair doesn't, so I typically use weak nair because it's easier. Sometimes I do weak bair -> bair too, even though that's not as good due to staleness.

@Ballin The problem I see with with weak nair is that the victim falls to low. I fear a ground tech if the vid you showed me would have been in the center of Hyrule.

You keep uairing/utilting until they are high enough that you can't uair/utilt them any more. At that point they will be high enough to full hop weak aerial -> double jump strong aerial combo.

BTW full hop weak aerial -> double jump strong aerial is a combo that works with lots of characters, not just Ness.

Sheer that's a nair lol >_> but I actually think that's a better example of a nice place to use nair than what ballin posted (but he always gotta link his own videos I guess)

I joke about how I'm always plugging my own videos, but really it's just that I remember them better so it's easier for me to find things.

 

[Battlecow]

sheer timestamps bro

just add "&t=1m56s" for 1 minute 56 seconds to the end of your YT URL in the link

saves people time

and that conclude's battlecow's forum etiquette PSA

 

[B Link]

I played sheer's ness on an ALT...uhhhhh....

Well let's just say it would be sick if it got to your yoshi level some day