Ask a Question, Get an Answer Thread~[Read Before Asking a Question]

[ballin4life]

Will the brash and overweaning young cobr_evolution defeat the venerable and mighty star king in a battle of smash knowledge? Stay tuned to find out.

More like which one will learn how to read first

 

[Toomai]

Back to original question:

How come sometimes when you bair (especially with Pikachu) your opponent will be sent forward instead of the intended backwards? Does this have something to do with which part of the hurtbox the move interacts with first?

This is based solely on what side of the attacker the target is on. So if you have a single large hitbox that covers your whole body like Kirby's nair, opponents will be knocked to the left if they're on the left, and to the right if they're on the right. This applies to all moves in SSB64 and Melee (and the vast majority in Brawl), you just rarely notice it happening because it's not common that an attack with a very clear "intended direction" has hitboxes far enough behind the attacker that targets can get hit while on the wrong side.

 

[Yobolight]

Is Falcon considered a hard counter for DK?

 

[Smasher00]

When getting up from a ledgeguard - ie. when you want to have your invincible get-up frames but still be holding the ledge so that your opponent can't grab it - do you use the roll (z), attack (a) or a simple up? Is it dependent on percent and character?

 

[clubbadubba]

i really like use get up attack when my opponent is recovering. If you time it right and are using the right character you will hit them and send them back off of the edge, but this time they have no jumps left. If your just trying to edgehog though, I'm not sure what the difference is. Though you know being over 100% makes you get up slower no matter which option you choose, actually makes edgehog timing easier.

 

[rpotts]

Is Falcon considered a hard counter for DK?

I would consider him a hard counter, especially on Dreamland. Probably doesn't counter DK quite as hard as Pika or Kirby but he's not too far behind them, and close to even on DL.

When getting up from a ledgeguard - ie. when you want to have your invincible get-up frames but still be holding the ledge so that your opponent can't grab it - do you use the roll (z), attack (a) or a simple up? Is it dependent on percent and character?

It's character dependent, and also depends on your damage, as all ledge get-ups are slower over 100%. However, unlike in Melee, you don't ledgehog during the whole animation, only while the character is actually occupying the ledge. Some characters have very quick get ups, like DKs under 100% get up attack. That example would hog the ledge for significantly fewer frames than say Falcon's over 100% get up attack.

Don't forget that you should ledgehop to refresh your invincibilty frames just before your opponent recovers, oftentimes that will be enough to edgehog them, avoiding the risky get ups all together.

 

[Yobolight]

Do you guys all use Hori Mini Pads or do some of yall still go OG 64 controller?

 

[Battlecow]

most of them go OG

maybe 5-6 hori brothas in the house?

 

[joY]

Werd.

I use a Hori!

 

[prisonchild]

do you guys (or did you) ever use 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 time in training mode?

 

[ciaza]

only if i wanted to see if some things were possible, like captain falcon sh double uair or fox sh dair x 5 on jigglypuff

 

[The Star King]

Why x5? He can do an infinite number of them.

I used it for what ciaza said or for thinking of training mode combo ideas.

 

[ballin4life]

Why x5? He can do an infinite number of them.

I used it for what ciaza said or for thinking of training mode combo ideas.

all those ideas that we never get to see ...

 

[The Star King]

Yep

It's not that much don't worry, plus Ricky ended up doing some of the ideas I already had, like using DK dash attack for comboing (although I can improve that by using it in the middle instead of a finisher) or platform cancel Samus dairs on descending Congo Jungle platform (can improve that also)

Also like all my combo ideas end up being on Falcon >_> because he's the one I beat up in training mode

 

[RickySSB]

I must be a good player, because, apparently, I can read your mind and take some ideas.

 

[Yobolight]

Aside from the gimicky Yoshi crouch cancel parries, what would be some scenarios where I would actively want to crouch cancel?

 

[Battlecow]

When the rat bend the body

it is a trick we use often

no seriously though, virtually never. I used to fool around with CC'ing DK's get-up attack with heavy chars because people would do it blindly, but even then it's eh.

 

[pingding]

I have a question what character is like peach or luigi from melee and I'm a melee man so I'm just starting to get back to 64

 

[pingding]

Do you guys all use Hori Mini Pads or do some of yall still go OG 64 controller?

What in the world is a hori mini pad I have never heard of that

 

[clubbadubba]

when i know i'm about to get hit but can't avoid it i'll crouch cancel. Granted the better solution is not to put yourself in that position in the first place, but yea it can be useful. Plus ducking dodges some aerials as well so sometimes its a good bet.

 

[kys]

Ducking can be a nice tool against Foxes who spam fair.

 

[Han Solo]

I have a question what character is like peach or luigi from melee and I'm a melee man so I'm just starting to get back to 64

Luigi in Melee is pretty similar to Luigi in 64 I'd say. They're both slidey characters, although there's no real way to use Luigi's slideyness in this game like the wavedash in Melee (you can shield dash or whatever that's called, but it's not the same). Mario is better though.

I'm pretty sure Peach doesn't have a similar character in this game. You can say that Peach's downsmash is used as much as Kirby's utilt, but I think that's stretching it.

 

[asianaussie]

if you like pulling and hurling things a lot, link is good, but he hasnt got a move anything like peach's d-smash

 

[ballin4life]

when i know i'm about to get hit but can't avoid it i'll crouch cancel. Granted the better solution is not to put yourself in that position in the first place, but yea it can be useful. Plus ducking dodges some aerials as well so sometimes its a good bet.

crouch cancel is better than shielding in many cases

 

[TANK64]

Boom taught me that ccing is broken in this game.

*runs*

 

[pingding]

So luigi and Mario are good choices then. Another question how can I avoid Kirby's dair it's wrecks me

 

[weedwack]

So I am currently unable to connect to any server with pj64k and ownasaurus' tweaked kaillera. What sort of thing usually causes this?

 

[M!nt]

They're all down lol

go to the galaxy backup server: 66.175.211.87:27888

 

[B Link]

Boom taught me that ccing is broken in this game.

*runs*

wut lol, seems nearly useless to me? Except for maybe yoshi?

 

[ballin4life]

someone teach me how to beat Mario. i have no idea what to do against him. combos don't work. i can't get around his fireballs. i can't edgeguard his ridiculous recovery.

i use falcon and fox btw if that helps

/imad

 

[clubbadubba]

Falcon vs mario is an easy matchup.

Step 1: Don't get hit by fireballs.

Step 2: Hit mario with a grab, usmash, or aerial.

Step 3: Combo mario.

Step 4: Edgeguard.

In all seriousness, you must be rushing into mario. It depends what map you're playing on I guess, but on Dreamland you have to circle around the stage to avoid fireballs. The top platform is your friend, mario can't get fireballs up there too easily without putting himself in danger. I think I often get to the top platform, and then mario finds his way onto one of the side platforms because its a natural move for people (and if he doesn't get up you'll be able to get closer to him easily), and then I find an opportunity to drop down to the floor so I am underneath him. Getting underneath mario with falcon is a good idea imo.

Comboing mario can be difficult for sure. I find I don't use fair as much vs mario as other matchups, too floaty and you have to double jump to land one in many scenarios so you can't follow up as well. I usually fthrow to sh uair, then try and get back in the air quickly for more uairs. If you think you won't get another uair in, spike and tech chase instead. In my experience spike to tech chase will lead to better finishers than just using a nair, bair, or stale uair tipper vs mario. For example spike -> tech chase -> fthrow-> less stale uair tipper is now possible. Also at low percentages, I think you can do falcon on jiggly style combo's where after fthrow you pivot/dash pivot and follow up with a barrage of bairs/uair tippers.

Edgeguarding is tough in this one though, definite advantage to mario. If you can hit him on the way back that is obvi the best (like in the middle of down b), but that would be his mistake to make. I'm a fan of edgehogging if you can get the timing right, at the very least forcing him back to the stage so you can immediately pop him up with dair and then finish. Or you could sh dair just barely off the stage trying to catch him during up-b. It'll trade, but you'll recover just fine. Just don't let him slip past you onto the stage or you're dead! Also if you absolutely can't edgeguard and it gives more chance of you dying than him, then don't edgeguard lol. Falcon has a really good advantage on stage imo, like +2/+3. Its the huge off stage disadvantage that even's out the matchup a bit.

Oh one more thing about fireballs. Sometimes mario thinks he's such a bad *** with his wall of fireballs coming at you that he can safely run towards you. Be more of a bad *** and Fsmash through his fireball wall and catch him unawares if he does this. This is probably all wrong at higher levels than me, but to me falcon vs mario is pretty straightforward

 

[asianaussie]

just pick yoshi and parry absolutely everything

 

[M!nt]

I can't edgeguard his ridiculous recovery.

lol you would hate my mario

 

[The Star King]

I would answer but I already told ballin like ten ways to edgeguard Mario with Fox, as well as the other questions, so yeah

 

[KnitePhox]

My best advice is to (somehow)read the ridiculously overpowered roll--->dsmash mixup/mindgame

 

[ballin4life]

@clubba - thanks for the response

the thing for me is that with Falcon on DL I can death combo Pika 80+% of the time, but Mario is pretty heavy and never dies from any of my combos, so I have to try to edgeguard that recovery. If he gets back he's now at 80% where I can't really one hit kill him with an aerial or anything. Now again I'm relying on hitting him off the stage and edgeguarding. He just seems to never die.

I would answer but I already told ballin like ten ways to edgeguard Mario with Fox, as well as the other questions, so yeah

link plz? sorry, i just don't remember. I also searched through your posts (in smash64 discussion) for "mario fox edgeguard" and didn't find it.

 

[clubbadubba]

hmmmmmm maybe you should really try the spike to tech chase option then if you aren't killing him with the combos anyway. Its especially good if you can do it onto one of the platforms on dreamland since he has no where to roll to.

So how do you attempt to edgeguard mario currently? Going off stage to hit him while he's trying to throw fireballs and edgehogging are my 2 favorite options.

 

[meowmeowrainbowkitty]

Another question how can I avoid Kirby's dair it's wrecks me

Probably just shield is the best option, but then you have to watch out for kirby's utilts afterwards. Maybe try teching out of the dair--like hit z+direction when you hit the ground. Or if you want, maybe you could DI out of it, like when you're getting hit by the dair, either smash or kind of toggle the stick in a direction (i tend to go way either left or right)

Also, @yobo, I think this match gives sort of an example of someone who CC's... just look at Beast throughout the game, he'll crouch randomly.. it does save him from being hit (Jaime jumps over) but 9:09 I -think- it reduces the knockback of the blast. EDITED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0NTgFlWHPc&playnext=1&list=PLA1A23673287F5FE9&feature=results_video ...<---kinda important.

merrpp.

Separately, i'm just wondering about DIing..with chars with big bodies, DK for example, DI, it should be easier for him to hit the ledge/walls when DIing, compared to jiggs or ness, right? just purely based on bodysize, and assuming the person DIs relatively well.

 

[prisonchild]

@clubba - thanks for the response

the thing for me is that with Falcon on DL I can death combo Pika 80+% of the time, but Mario is pretty heavy and never dies from any of my combos, so I have to try to edgeguard that recovery. If he gets back he's now at 80% where I can't really one hit kill him with an aerial or anything. Now again I'm relying on hitting him off the stage and edgeguarding. He just seems to never die.



link plz? sorry, i just don't remember. I also searched through your posts (in smash64 discussion) for "mario fox edgeguard" and didn't find it.

mix in some falcon punches in your combos

 

[The Star King]

link plz? sorry, i just don't remember. I also searched through your posts (in smash64 discussion) for "mario fox edgeguard" and didn't find it.

Don't remember? @_@ *insert typical SK rant about you guys having terrible memory here*. I wonder why I bother writing help posts like that sometimes, they never help anyone :/

I'm so unappreciated. This relationship is over.

You gotta use the power of Google bro. Although it still was a little hard to find.

Fox is not that bad at edgeguarding Mario. You can dtilt him really easily and aerial him away while he's still in hitstun, rinse and repeat. You can also at least try the usual edgehog -> punish landing lag method. If Mario jumps early and throws some fireballs, like at 5:50 of the video, there's my little gimmick of running under the fireball and hitting them with an aerial. At least do something. In the video you weren't doing anything at all.

He's not that bad at comboing Mario, either. Mario is one of the easiest characters to fair chain at mid %s. Fox's dtilt and utilt are good at lower %s, and his ftilt (yeah, seriously) can be used to assist fair chains. Mario himself has a hard time comboing Fox at low %s, although his uair chains are admittedly formidable later on.

Approach is the big one. If Fox utilizes shine well Mario has a really hard time approaching without his precious little fireballs, and Fox forces him to approach with lasers.

Looking at the video... second match was obviously a lot better than the first. Notice the long periods of time in which you were repeatedly bairing his fireballs? Well, it's better than getting hit by his full hop fireballs, like you did in the first two stocks of the first match, causing you to die quickly. But if you had shined the fireballs and thrown in some lasering you would be in control of the, er, neutral position, like Fox should be in this match-up. You can also try running under it in advance and punishing when you anticipate him doing a fullhop fireball. It's really not very safe for Mario vs such a fast character.

Mario's third stock second match is a good example of Mario living way too long because you were just letting him recover. Like I said before, you can try running under the fireballs and hitting him at places like 5:42 or 6:14. At 5:42, since he was too far away for his up-b to make it over the edge, you could have easily edgehogged and he would either die, or use down-B and been easily punished during the lag. At places like 6:02, you can try bairing through the fireball, or the cool-looking reflect fireball -> upsmash (Boomfan loves doing this with Fox >____>)

P.S. When you get knocked a bit off stage, don't jump and fair super early like you did at 1:27 or 2:32. Not sure why so many people do that, TBH it's like the worst you can so.

Although REALLY when you're talking about edgeguarding, tl;dr is just dtilt him. It's the best way and it's easy.