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[Tom Bombadil]

First, I've been playing all the characters rather than just one (like you guys unanimously suggested) and my short hopping and z-cancelling in general got enormously more comfortable. So thanks for the suggestion.

Second, I'm having a lot of trouble ledgeguarding marios. Specifically with falcon and more generally as well. Is there a move of falcons that will actually hit mario through his upB or is there a different strategy that I should be using on him. I've found falcon kick to be great if he accidentally is horizontal to the edge at some point.

What moves on which characters will hit mario through his upB and what strategy should I be using if my character has none of these?

 

[prisonchild]

marios is one of the hardest to edgeguard (only pika can be harder). he has fireballs which give him forward momentum and make it more difficult to maneuver around, he has his downb which gives him more an extra boost and his upb is quite frustrating too.

here's the hitbox for his upb move: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4984/marioupb.gif

as you can see, the hitbox is pretty big. i can't remember offhand what is best way to defend that (i don't play against many marios) but here is the hitbox thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=276826 . look there to see what some of falcons best options are.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Hanging on the ledge vs mario is the best strategy imo. You have to know your invincibity frames pretty well in order to use this technique properly though.

 

[ballin4life]

Hanging on the ledge vs mario is the best strategy imo. You have to know your invincibity frames pretty well in order to use this technique properly though.

yup, this will force him to upB onto the stage then you can ledgehop -> attack or get up -> backthrow

also with Falcon you can definitely hit his upB with dair, but you have to time it and space it well. I think I've seen dtilt work too but that one seems really hard to me.

 

[M!nt]

also bair trades with mario up b pretty good doesn't it?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Someone want to give me a rundown on how to pivot edgehog. Is it just ridiculous timing or is there a secret?

Also, exact same question but about SHDL

Thanks

 

[asianaussie]

SHDL is timing + knowing to do a standing shorthop (not running), learn the timing of the 'pews' by mashing out a couple SHDL, then start pressing it with timing until you have it down

pivot edgehogs are about spacing, not timing

 

[prisonchild]

there's definitely timing involved with edgehogging, but do you mean a fast pivot? falcon has a cool dash > edgeguard which just depends on when you pivot (in the middle of your dash near the edge)


also i've been working on SHDL and the way it was explained to me is basically get that first laser out as quickly as possible, then the second laser can be timed depending on how low you want it to be. of course, it all happens pretty fast so at first (at least it was like this for me) you pretty much go as fast as possible. you get used to it though and learn to time the second laser.

 

[M!nt]

A good way to get a good feel for shdl is to use one hand for jump and another for the b button in my experience.

Then you can get how its supposed to feel.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Sorry I should have been more clear about the pivot thing. I'm talking about dashing off the edge but then pivoting so that you grab the edge immediately. I think it's technically called pivot ledge grab. I'm just wondering if it truly is only a well-timed pivot or if there is some magic involved.

 

[Battlecow]

it's a well-spaced pivot

you gotta know how the momentum works and how far you have to be from the ledge and how far you have to pivot based on that

 

[Tom Bombadil]

it's a well-spaced pivot

you gotta know how the momentum works and how far you have to be from the ledge and how far you have to pivot based on that

I see. Currently I don't know those things. Practice until I get lucky? Or does someone have a vid?

 

[B Link]

You're prob aware of this, but just in case you're not:

The pivot->ledgegrab is easiest with falcon and luigi. Also, that makes it the most practical to use with those two chars. Thus, it's pretty much a waste of time to practice pivot->ledgegrab with other chars.

Actually, it's pretty useless for luigi too. Falcon f t ........l?w?

 

[ballin4life]

fox can do it pretty well too. Fox can actually do it out of a full dash, rather than just an initial dash.

 

[TANK64]

What Ballin' said. Fox is def super useful (both the pivot, and the running one). And Samus' is pretty damn easy, but not exactly useful. I've also found Mario's/Link's pivot edge hogs to be useful. Those can be hard though, but I'm just a god .

It's just an exta tool to use. Some people don't think it's that important but whatever. Learn it if you want to. I think it's a shame to let something like tech skill hinder you play/growth as a player/options. So that's why I believe you should be proficient in every tech of your char that you might need to bust out one day.

Also you should practice your pivots and know the spacing simply for your on-stage fighting. Which is a necessity pretty much rather than just an option.

Also, remember to ff after the pivot to grab the edge faster. And also remember not to hold down because that will make you pass the ledge. This is with EVERY CHARACTER. ...why do people not get this >__>

Actually, it's pretty useless for luigi too. Falcon f t ........l?w?

Duuuude, noo. I'm gonna have to disagree here. You can shield dash pivot. And it protect you if they upB early. It's really fast, and you can use it to bair off the edge and stuff. Also there is the upB, upSmash, and grab OoS that goes into that as well. Plus you can mix it up and shield dash and nair of the edge and if they try and go early to avoid getting hit, then you just shield grab them and throw them off again. That one happens to me all the time. You don't even have to change the timing. You just shield dash and then A when you would fall off the edge. It's like an option select lol.

 

[Battlecow]

And also remember not to hold down because that will make you pass the ledge. This is with EVERY CHARACTER. ...why do people not get this >__>

Oh dearie me. I guess we know what you've been doing lately...

 

[TANK64]

I don't get it.

Melee reference?

Or a twss joke?

and the every char was referring to the ff. Probably should have ordered that differently.

Oh well, post still stands. Maybe not with fast fallers

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

And also remember not to hold down because that will make you pass the ledge.

this aint melee

 

[Yobolight]

I can do the teleport.

What the hell do I do with it?

 

[TANK64]

and the every char was referring to the ff. Probably should have ordered that differently.

Oh well, post still stands. Maybe not with fast fallers

You can still past the edge with different chars Samus, and fox's running one are easy ones that come to mind.

lol but I get it, you mean the hold down thing.

But you can pass the ledge if you don't immediately fast fall soooooo. lol I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.

But yea, that ain't Melee?

But yea, if you hold down, at the ledge, after ffing immediately, you won't pass it.

Better?

SORRY. Don't mean to spread misinformation. I USUALLY am really good with communicating...

 

[prisonchild]

I can do the teleport.

What the hell do I do with it?

you use it.



usually to finish combos that couldn't connect without it, although there are other purposes.

you can also use it for spacing

 

[ballin4life]

You can shield dash pivot

what exactly does this mean?

I can do the teleport.

What the hell do I do with it?

Assume you mean with fox: teleport usmash is sometimes needed as a combo finisher. E.g. fair -> teleport usmash (when just a dash usmash wouldn't reach them).

That's the main way I use fox' teleport, and it's a pretty rare situation.

 

[Battlecow]

with jiggs teleport nairs can be cool and surprising spacing tools, and teleport rests can be surprising and ballsy KOs.

 

[meowmeowrainbowkitty]

TeleSing for ...well, nothing really. But it's cool.

And I've been trying out teleport into a dair on jiggs, and it..semi helps. I mean, if you land it, it's like landing any other dair. But I guess the main benefit is spacing/making up distance?

 

[TANK64]

what exactly does this mean?

Dashing and then shielding while your sliding. Sort of like you can do with Falcon/Fox except Luigi's is leet because of the SLIDE.

And the pivot shield dash is basically what I was talking about later in my post. It's really useful, unlike Falcon's which is just a cool shield flash, but you might as well taunt cancel pivot since it's cooler, and you can't do both at once. If only...

Plus Luigi has advancing guard .

 

[ballin4life]

can you explain shield pivot dash again because I didn't get it

 

[firo]

Anyone try Pj64k and stuff on Windows 8? Thinking of upgrading but I want to make sure everything works without any problems first.

 

[M!nt]

I think It worked when I tried out it out.

windows 8 is awful though

 

[The Star King]

link can double stick jump to the top platform (time second jump appropriately) and land as soon as he starts falling, meaning you're basically jumping up and assuming a standing position

idk what else he might mean, his second jump is sorta difficult to work with the side platforms

people need to practise movement more period, training mode =/= combo mode

No, I was talking about if you double jump as fast as possible with Link (timing for pressing C twice is similar to Yoshi djc nair(?)), you'll land pretty much "perfectly" on the side platforms on DL/the first Hyrule tower platform. Like how a sideways Kirby or Mario C jump lands "perfectly".
Isai uses it quite a bit. There's also run-off -> jump as soon as you're off the main stage for Dreamland (you'll land on the platform perfectly) and platform drop -> jump on the Hyrule tower but those are more limited in where you can do them.

/late reply

 

[Yobolight]

Does Mario's get up attack have a large blindspot. It seems like it just doesn't work on Ness.

 

[Han Solo]

Does Mario's get up attack have a large blindspot. It seems like it just doesn't work on Ness.

I noticed the same thing for Luigi. I don't think there's a hitbox if you're standing basically on them.

 

[Yobolight]

I noticed the same thing for Luigi. I don't think there's a hitbox if you're standing basically on them.

Yeah that makes sense, the Mario Bros get up attack hitbox seems to be decently long range, but with a substantial blind spot.

This is fairly useful if the opponent decide for whatever reason not to tech.

 

[asianaussie]

No, I was talking about if you double jump as fast as possible with Link (timing for pressing C twice is similar to Yoshi djc nair(?)), you'll land pretty much "perfectly" on the side platforms on DL/the first Hyrule tower platform. Like how a sideways Kirby or Mario C jump lands "perfectly".
Isai uses it quite a bit. There's also run-off -> jump as soon as you're off the main stage for Dreamland (you'll land on the platform perfectly) and platform drop -> jump on the Hyrule tower but those are more limited in where you can do them.

/late reply

that's cool

guess ill try that if i ever decide to open smash up again

 

[firo]

I think It worked when I tried out it out.

windows 8 is awful though

Well, I can confirm that pj64k works just fine with Windows 8. It seems to be a bit more responsive in opening and closing as well. While PJ64k won't work on Windows RT (the tablet version), if you are looking for your kaillera fix I hope to get the client I'm working on to run on the Surface once I figure out what changes need to be made, so at least you'll be able to chat and stuff.

As a note for anyone interested - Windows 8 currently does not work well with any USB audio DAC, and produces pretty horrible clicks and pops during playback. It sucks, and I'll probably have to downgrade if it's not fixed really soon. If you don't have a USB DAC or don't know what those letters stand for then you should be fine.

 

[KnitePhox]

lol downgrade? just upgrade from win8 ----> win7

 

[ballin4life]

Be a true hipster and use Linux

 

[TANK64]

can you explain shield pivot dash again because I didn't get it

Trolling isn't nice Ballin'...

lol, but yea, I guess I'll find a vid.

-and also, you pivot first btw, if that's what you're hung up on. So there's shield-dash, and then the pivot>shield-dash (only this part the pivot IS the dash).

 

[prisonchild]

how do you guys record your console matches?

 

[Han Solo]

how do you guys record your console matches?

With a capture card. I had to buy 3 cable splitters with one signal going to the capture card and one going to the tv. I can't figure out how to stream with my card though. Oh well.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

so you mean dash pivot shield?