Arizona Brawl Power Rankings and Brawl Social Thread (Updated: November 2013)

[lusiris]

I completely agree on the amateur bracket. It is a really easy thing to do. You just take the people that didn't make it to bracket and make a amateur bracket where the winner of it all gets there money back. We did it at the tucson tourney before last and it was good.

 

[RaveRemix]

This season is definitely the most promising one yet. Not only are there great players returning to the scene, we'll without a doubt attract UAT students who play Brawl. And I can imagine it'll probably be easier to get more people as well because of the convenient location/the fact that it's not someone's house.

Not to mention, there'll be an onslaught of new players we can attract from Phoenix Comicon later next month! I was thinking everyone in the Brawl scene should go attend it together actually. :D

 

[DerpDaBerp]

I still don't understand why we should have a cash prize for the amateur bracket when players who did well enough to make it out of pools and then get 2-0'd in bracket get nothing

 

[Jar'd]

Problem with amateur bracket is, obviously, it's another bracket to run. Under ideal conditions, I think amateur bracket is a great idea. Logically though, tournaments always seem to run really inefficiently already. To add ANOTHER bracket seems like it'd be too much. Especially with the fact that almost everyone makes it out of pools. The bracket would contain something like 6 people? Might as well just play friendlies and watch the "Majors" as opposed to letting the Little League World Series play out.

Edit: Paying out for amateur is a JOKE. No offense, but if you didn't make it out of pools, like hell do you deserve even a dime from the pot. It's even worse than paying out to 7th or putting the whole scene on the PR. Completely ridiculous.

 

[RaveRemix]

I think it's very worth it to take out a very small chunk of the pot to motivate people to keep on coming to tournaments. This scene should be about growth, not greed.

 

[Jar'd]

Why not just give everyone their money back then? If all it is is about catering to scrubs, let's just turn on items and give handjobs to each other while we play.

 

[Duff0]

ha .

 

[Jane]

so tempted to sig that. lmfao

 

[RaveRemix]

^LOL

Well Javier, I just hate it when half of our scene doesn't even come to more than one tourney per season. It would be nice to find ways to make them regulars. Sacrificing $5 (the new price for Singles) for the winner of the Amateur bracket isn't a huge deal honestly. And usually we can take care of that bracket with one TV.

 

[Duff0]

make the fee 5$

we do pools. that caters to noobs. thats enough

 

[Duff0]

i think we should do round robins whenever possible those are fun

 

[Jar'd]

I think it's a valid concern, but we shouldn't be tempting them with money and titles. We should want them to come back not because they can say "well, I have a chance of not losing money, might as well go" to "Wow, that was really fun! I met a lot of cool people, learned about this game I really enjoy, and I would love to experience that again!" Emotional motivation is infinitely more powerful than monetary/physical motivations. If they are motivated because of the actual experience, they will return. That is what will build the scene.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

And I've been trying to get the PlayNTrade near my house to host regular tournaments, like one every other month or something around there. If anyone is in the area (Tatum and Bell) go in and request it, Ive had around 5 people go in, and it seems their only problems are finding a host and getting wiis.

 

[Duff0]

where do you live meow i live near tatum and bell

 

[RaveRemix]

@Javier
And I definitely agree with the sentiment that emotion > monetary motivation. But frankly, I don't think at all that an amateur bracket would stifle this emotional experience, but enhance it, as they would be getting a tournament dedicated to competing against people closer to their skill level.

 

[OkamiBW]

I think it's a valid concern, but we shouldn't be tempting them with money and titles. We should want them to come back not because they can say "well, I have a chance of not losing money, might as well go" to "Wow, that was really fun! I met a lot of cool people, learned about this game I really enjoy, and I would love to experience that again!" Emotional motivation is infinitely more powerful than monetary/physical motivations. If they are motivated because of the actual experience, they will return. That is what will build the scene.

Spoiler

This is Brawl we're talking about though...

And lol. Saying, "we shouldn't be tempting them with money and titles" implies you're a cut above the rest and that "they" all suck. If "they" see you say that, they will not return. That is not what will build the seen.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I live like.. A quarter mile from Horizon High, right off Paradise and 56th Street

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Look, amateur bracket is cool, but prize money is a prize not a consolation. The motivation one might have to come back to the scene by possibly getting their money back by showing they're the best of the worst is equally unfair to those who have made more progress than they by getting out of pools.

I highly doubt people don't come back because they didn't win any money. We have grown plenty with people who have accepted the fact that they will probably never place (i.e. me) and with people who have grown determined to get good enough to place (i.e. Shawn). I trust our community as a community to bring people back. If they like playing the game and playing it with the people already here, that should be enough.

Then again, whoever is the tournament organizer can do whatever they want. But if there is to be an amateur bracket with a refund prize, make that clear beforehand so I can know to not enter.

And Okami, you know you have some fun when you play Brawl with us

 

[lusiris]

Well I think making it $5 for singles is going to help draw in more people as well. Running the amateur bracket was easy we just dedicated the smallest TV to it and had them update it. We don't have to award a prize but having a amateur bracket allows some of the lower skilled people to compete against people with around the same skill level and that helps them grow. Getting 3 stocked by Kyle will not help a newer player grow. By versing people around the same skill level they can improve. When it comes down to it it really is the TO's discretion of course.

 

[heysuess]

And I've been trying to get the PlayNTrade near my house to host regular tournaments, like one every other month or something around there. If anyone is in the area (Tatum and Bell) go in and request it, Ive had around 5 people go in, and it seems their only problems are finding a host and getting wiis.

I've actually called them a few times and asked them to host another one. Nothing yet.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Well I think making it $5 for singles is going to help draw in more people as well. Running the amateur bracket was easy we just dedicated the smallest TV to it and had them update it. We don't have to award a prize but having a amateur bracket allows some of the lower skilled people to compete against people with around the same skill level and that helps them grow. Getting 3 stocked by Kyle will not help a newer player grow. By versing people around the same skill level they can improve. When it comes down to it it really is the TO's discretion of course.

yeah man I completely, 100% agree. It's just not cool to have a cash prize for it is all I'm saying

 

[Jar'd]

Tommy, before I forget, you're the best.

 

[Duff0]

I live like.. A quarter mile from Horizon High, right off Paradise and 56th Street

oh okay. i go to pinnacle lol

im jealous of your choir program

 

[OkamiBW]

Well I think making it $5 for singles is going to help draw in more people as well. Running the amateur bracket was easy we just dedicated the smallest TV to it and had them update it. We don't have to award a prize but having a amateur bracket allows some of the lower skilled people to compete against people with around the same skill level and that helps them grow. Getting 3 stocked by Kyle will not help a newer player grow. By versing people around the same skill level they can improve. When it comes down to it it really is the TO's discretion of course.

What about getting 3 stocked by M2K and Dekar in your living room? Did I gain any EXP points for that? :x

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I don't like the idea of amateur bracket, or the idea of taking payout for it from the Singles Pot. Amateur Brackets are a nice/cool thing to do for scrubs, but it is not necessary and in no way deserves to take it's money from the Singles Pot to use as payout.

I honestly feel like the negatives outweighs the positives in terms of amateur bracket in this state.

Don't think NYTE reflects how we actually run our tourneys in AZ. Even though we are talking about Brawl here, we take waaaaaaay too much time to start/finish our events in Tucson or Phoenix (it's usually worse in Tucson since Phoenix takes years to get down here all the time.)

In terms of time, the amateur bracket is a bad idea, since we have no spare-time as is that won't slow down tourneys even more. For an amateur bracket to be really ideal, you would need two or more TV's than we normally have to make it seem like we aren't running an extra event. Sometimes we don't have a whole lot of set-ups and people get too caught up playing friendlies, this can certainly be minimized/enforced better every tourney, but especially for Brawlers, you guys are bad, excpet at NYTE, you were good.

Also, by the time someone would run amateur, it would be the time the non-Finals TV's are being opening up and being used for MMs/Friendlies that the non-greedy people have been waiting all day for to open up, I don't think taking set-ups from them for a worthless amateur bracket is cool. Hell, I smoke weed and I don't hold up events as hard as some people do playing friendlies just about every tourney.


What happened to people having the drive to enter tourneys from playing against, and watching the best play. I know it certainly happened this past weekend for me with Melee at NYTE watching Forward play at a regional again got me hot, and I played many Melee friendlies this weekend, I actually feel it ended up helping me quite a bit in brawl bracket later on. Scrubs should be looking forward to getting ***** by and learning from higher level players, striving to one day be where they are as one of the best in the smash scene. If we have to baby them and make them play other scrubs of their level in a separate bracket, they aren't going to get any better or learn anything, it's more of a general waste of everyone's time/set-ups/money. People will learn better from better players, not other scrubs around their own level.


/Real Talk

 

[OkamiBW]

People will learn better from better players, not other scrubs around their own level.

Something I heard that was really cool one time was:
You learn new things from those better than you.
You practice new things on those worse than you.
You test your knowledge and mastery of these things on those at your skill level.

 

[lusiris]

Stuff

Well we ran a amateur bracket perfectly the tournament before last with a turnout of around 25 people and we got out around 11. A lot of our problems with time in Tucson are centered around running two tournaments at the same time, weed breaks, and phoenix not showing up till around 5. I feel a player grows by versing someone a little bit higher in his skill level then compared to versing M2K and getting destroyed. If you were to verse that higher skilled player in a ton of friendlies then you can grow but just getting demolished in a single 2/3 doesn't help. I have been playing smiley for over a year and we both have grown as players by competing our strengths against each other. All I am saying is if we have the time I don't see the problem with running a free Amateur bracket for the people that don't make it out of pools so they can get some well deserved matches so they can have fun and compete in some way. If you want to complain about time how about we make it if you don't show up to a match in 10 minutes from when your name is called then you get disqualified because having to wait 1 hour for you guys to finish having a smoke break sucks. I don't think we should do that but all I am saying is that if we do have enough time then I don't see the problem in helping to bolster our numbers by having a amateur bracket.

 

[RaveRemix]

As a T.O. I always want to make sure the majority is satisfied with the way things are run, and since most of you are against taking money for amateur brackets, I'll go ahead and abide to that, at least during normal tournaments. I do however feel like an amateur bracket (with payout) would be nice for Power Ranking tournies, since there'll be more money to distribute anyway (with the higher entry fee), and there'll probably be a much larger turnout. Ultimately, it would be nice for everyone to fight for a prize in APRD tournies, not just the better players.

In terms of hosting a free amateur bracket in normal tourneys, that will depend on the number of entrants. I imagine in most cases though, our numbers will be too small and we'll probably have everyone in pools advance to the same bracket.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

oh okay. i go to pinnacle lol

im jealous of your choir program

Oh cool, I go to Horizon, but choir is not really my thing

What streets are you off of?

 

[Duff0]

i live way up north. scottsdale and jomax

i still spend most of my time in your area we should smash sometime

 

[Aaven]

. .

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Well we ran a amateur bracket perfectly the tournament before last with a turnout of around 25 people and we got out around 11. A lot of our problems with time in Tucson are centered around running two tournaments at the same time, weed breaks, and phoenix not showing up till around 5. I feel a player grows by versing someone a little bit higher in his skill level then compared to versing M2K and getting destroyed. If you were to verse that higher skilled player in a ton of friendlies then you can grow but just getting demolished in a single 2/3 doesn't help. I have been playing smiley for over a year and we both have grown as players by competing our strengths against each other. All I am saying is if we have the time I don't see the problem with running a free Amateur bracket for the people that don't make it out of pools so they can get some well deserved matches so they can have fun and compete in some way. If you want to complain about time how about we make it if you don't show up to a match in 10 minutes from when your name is called then you get disqualified because having to wait 1 hour for you guys to finish having a smoke break sucks. I don't think we should do that but all I am saying is that if we do have enough time then I don't see the problem in helping to bolster our numbers by having a amateur bracket.

LOL at saying smokers take 1 hour for their breaks, and during bracket too. we leave before pools begins, and if it's during bracket it's before or sometime during Kyle's semi's/finals matches/after the scrubs have been eliminated so by then I'm not holding up their matches. Plus we get clearance from the person running pools/bracket every time we do smoke, and they let us know if it's an alright. time to go or not. Smokers aren't a part of the problem, really.

The only problem with Melee+Brawl tourneys being slow on the Brawl side is the Brawl players not bringing enough set-ups. Last Tucson tourney (not Pre-Nyte) Brawl had 3 setups, while Melee had probably nearly 8, like wtf guys, bring more full setups to tourneys. Brawl doubles also had a random 4 or more hour gap at that tourney. I'm not sure what amateur bracket you're talking about. I see nothing about it in any of the recent couple of month's results threads.

As a T.O. I always want to make sure the majority is satisfied with the way things are run, and since most of you are against taking money for amateur brackets, I'll go ahead and abide to that, at least during normal tournaments. I do however feel like an amateur bracket (with payout) would be nice for Power Ranking tourneys, since there'll be more money to distribute anyway (with the higher entry fee), and there'll probably be a much larger turnout. Ultimately, it would be nice for everyone to fight for a prize in APRD tourneys, not just the better players.

In terms of hosting a free amateur bracket in normal tourneys, that will depend on the number of entrants. I imagine in most cases though, our numbers will be too small and we'll probably have everyone in pools advance to the same bracket.

again, it would be a nice thing to have an amateur bracket w/ payout, but you're taking money from people who are putting a lot toward earning a placing in the money spots. We're already paying out past Top 3 for AZPRD's if i recall, and we're going to be stretching that payout further to scrubs who don't need to be PLAYING AGAIN trying to earn some money while there is a whole group of people between the amateurs and Top 5 that would be more deserving of a payout. although they will get nothing, just like everyone who places below Top 3/or whatever it is should be. I really feel like the Singles Pot should go untouched, and that if an amateur bracket is run, it's should always be free.

i live way up north. scottsdale and jomax

i still spend most of my time in your area we should smash sometime

hey guuuurl. I miss you.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Tommy, before I forget, you're the best.

<3 you, man

Ultimately, it would be nice for everyone to fight for a prize in APRD tournies, not just the better players.

It's all about influencing people to become better players so that they have a chance at the prize.



and regarding time for another bracket, I am all too familiar with the lethargy of our tournament running, but I think now that we're past the regional it would be a good time to begin a more strict enforcement of planned schedules so that we can fit in things like other events and being able to go out to eat at nicer places that haven't closed yet. I think everyone will be happier with just more organization.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Sounds good to me, I'll let you know when I have some of my friends over (possibly joining brawl scene)

 

[lusiris]

stuff2

The tournament with the amateur bracket was on February 6th and I still have the tio file for it. Smiley won first place and Derp placed second for the amateur part. We finished in time at 11 then went to chilis. We had a turnout of around 25 and Phoenix showed up pretty early around 3. We had around 5 setups and we were not running melee on the same date. The smoke break was just a exaggeration but no matter the time it is taken it still holds up the tournament in the end. The only arguments you have against the amateur bracket are time and money. Well if it was free then there would be no problem with the money part and with the time option that can be easily fixed if we have enough setups. Running melee still takes up TV's which in the U of A lounge is a necessity considering there are only four which are occupied. I don't mind trying to run melee on the same date but running them at the same time can be hard to do. I just think we should set up a schedule and try to enforce it more. It makes it hard to do things if we have no clue when things officially start.
TL;DR We should make a tentative schedule. If we have enough time and setups I don't see the problem with running a free amateur bracket. It would only help us.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Yes, I think we've got some things to work out as a scene with our laziness when it comes to tournament anything, before we consider adding another event.

we definitely need to enforce a stricter schedule. this includes like Deciding A Few Days Before The Tourney On Whether Or Not We Will Do One Doubles Or Some Kind Of Side Event In Addition To Singles so that we aren't wasting a ton of time trying to decide on something.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

The tournament with the amateur bracket was on February 6th and I still have the tio file for it. Smiley won first place and Derp placed second for the amateur part. We finished in time at 11 then went to chilis. We had a turnout of around 25 and Phoenix showed up pretty early around 3. We had around 5 setups and we were not running melee on the same date. The smoke break was just a exaggeration but no matter the time it is taken it still holds up the tournament in the end. The only arguments you have against the amateur bracket are time and money. Well if it was free then there would be no problem with the money part and with the time option that can be easily fixed if we have enough setups. Running melee still takes up TV's which in the U of A lounge is a necessity considering there are only four which are occupied. I don't mind trying to run melee on the same date but running them at the same time can be hard to do. I just think we should set up a schedule and try to enforce it more. It makes it hard to do things if we have no clue when things officially start.
TL;DR We should make a tentative schedule. If we have enough time and setups I don't see the problem with running a free amateur bracket. It would only help us.

when in doubt of the tourney schedule, there is always a tentative one posted in the tourney thread. The Melee/Brawl tourneys in Tucson could at least have the Lounge tv's shared evenly between the communities (2 each), but people need to step up and bring more tv's to these tourneys.

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

Amateur bracket is a stupid idea.

Do you think I became the best player by never getting 3 stocked by the better players? Do you think only playing people around my skill level in place of playing better people got me good? Seriously, the only way to get good is get beaten a crapton of times. Stop suggesting this stupid idea. Why do you think I always allow everyone to enter bracket. Its so they can get some damn practice.

If you guys want to get truly better than forget about this moronic idea.

Shoutout to Justin K for destroying me in my early days. <3

ALSO: I NEED THE SKYPE NAMES AND FACEBOOK LINKS TO KIRA, TOMMY, K9, AND SILLY KYLE. Please give me that asap

 

[lusiris]

Amateur bracket is a stupid idea.

Do you think I became the best player by never getting 3 stocked by the better players? Do you think only playing people around my skill level in place of playing better people got me good? Seriously, the only way to get good is get beaten a crapton of times. Stop suggesting this stupid idea. Why do you think I always allow everyone to enter bracket. Its so they can get some damn practice.

If you guys want to get truly better than forget about this moronic idea.

Shoutout to Justin K for destroying me in my early days. <3

ALSO: I NEED THE SKYPE NAMES AND FACEBOOK LINKS TO KIRA, TOMMY, K9, AND SILLY KYLE. Please give me that asap

If we allow everyone in bracket then there definitely is no need for a amateur bracket. I think it was only suggested because of people getting cut in pools. So if everyone makes in bracket then I don't see a reason to complain.

 

[Govikings07]

I wouldnt mind having everyone in bracket. Pools are just for placings in bracket so im down with not cutting ppl in pools