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Arizona Brawl Power Rankings and Brawl Social Thread (Updated: November 2013)
- Thread starter RaveRemix
- Start date
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
wait how do you find out how many posts one has made in a particular thread
Duff0
Smash Ace
there should be a tournament this weekend
Dark Shifter
Smash Ace
@ jard, not even i know that yet lol.
i say cartoon cartoon mascots.
i call billy from billy and mandy.
i say cartoon cartoon mascots.
i call billy from billy and mandy.
KiraFlax
Smash Lord
There should be a tournament on the 24th whether it be here or tucson. preferably tuscon because we need to find another venue just in case gamers inn wont host us anymore for sure.
Jane
Smash Hero
go to the page that shows all of the threads (so click on "the best region in the region!"), and click the number of total replies on the far right of this thread.
@Jard Watching apex was preety sad, i don't think we should ban MK now so we can have another chance at playing the japenese again.
Because they said at apex that, if we ban him, they won't be coming back to play us. Cause they have alot of MK players.
We are having a smashfest at my house this friday, so if you wanna go just text me.
Also, @Duffy you should come!
480-343-6799
@Tucson we should have the next tourney on the 24th.
Because they said at apex that, if we ban him, they won't be coming back to play us. Cause they have alot of MK players.
We are having a smashfest at my house this friday, so if you wanna go just text me.
Also, @Duffy you should come!
480-343-6799
@Tucson we should have the next tourney on the 24th.
Govikings07
Smash Journeyman
Need mk to beat japan? Sounds like the u.s. -_- Ppl just need to get better right? Thats how anti bans see it
JustinKamikaze
Smash Ace
^ Don't need MK to beat Japan, but need MK to practice to beat Japan. If our MK players can lose to Olimar/Rob and theirs can't, than we still got a lot to improve on still.
Or we could all just watch Ic's vs Ic's all day which was entertaining.
Or we could all just watch Ic's vs Ic's all day which was entertaining.
Duff0
Smash Ace
i dont want to go to just a smashfest haha.
Yoshiken96
Smash Journeyman
Well, as a believer in the scientific method, I am always in support of testing a hypothesis with an experiment. While I believe that Apex was an eye opener to the U.S. as to how lax and lazy we have become in our progression, and how we need to pick ourselves up and really try to get better, we can't deny the fact that an MK main still won APEX.
I still want to see everyone, including MK mains, improve, but I do want to see how the metagame would evolve/change with him banned, so my support goes to a temporary ban. Probably 6 months or something, just to test all the theorycraft around. It doesn't need to be a permanent one.
I still want to see everyone, including MK mains, improve, but I do want to see how the metagame would evolve/change with him banned, so my support goes to a temporary ban. Probably 6 months or something, just to test all the theorycraft around. It doesn't need to be a permanent one.
Govikings07
Smash Journeyman
Justin thats still needing mk right? We need mk meaning in any way. To watch and study, to play or practice.
Jane
Smash Hero
lol, i can 100% guarantee you that the japanese will be back, for a variety of reasons. one is that most of them won a ****-ton of money. land of the free indeed. second is that they will see this as a challenge. they will want to see "can we beat the free-mericans with their new rule? challenge accepted."
guaranteed.
anyways, next tourney is on the 4th.
guaranteed.
anyways, next tourney is on the 4th.
Govikings07
Smash Journeyman
Seriously why cant we beat them with the new ruleset? Just means mks banned and a few other changes. Unless ppl agree we need mk -_- stop relying on mk. **** gets boring to watch mk dittos.
You don't understand at all, do you? It's not saying we need the physical character to win, it's that we need the experience and knowledge of Mk's meta which will further develop in Japan. We are only limiting ourselves, especially with the possibility of a removal of the ban in the future. It's ignorant to say needing to practice the matchup is being "reliant" on him.
Thinking over what the Japanese have said, it's only our bullshit ruleset that leads to Mk's dominance. An experiment isn't valid when it has variables that manipulate the dependent variable towards a specific result.
Thinking over what the Japanese have said, it's only our bullshit ruleset that leads to Mk's dominance. An experiment isn't valid when it has variables that manipulate the dependent variable towards a specific result.
Jane
Smash Hero
explain these two thoughts further plz
Yoshiken96
Smash Journeyman
Wait, Of course the experiment would be valid. The dependent variable is supposed to always change from the variables given in the experiment. The experiment wouldn't be valid if you had to change the variables so that you could get an expected outcome. If we had to change the ruleset just to cater to a single character, then it would show that character to be over-centralized.
Getting back on subject though, what makes the MK ban even more effective is that it has never been done before. We have no idea whats going to be expected. Too much of America plays MK, and has Metaknight experience. He is played way, way, way more over here than in Japan, where many other characters have been developed and have become viable. Japan doesn't play for money over there as much as they do for honor. They have less to lose if they don't pick the strongest character in the game, thus allowing them to develop all of the matchups more. Apex proved this when Nairo got super close to beating Otori, but not even anywhere near beating Nietono, who then lost to Otori. He clearly didn't know the Olimar matchup as much as the MK matchup. With us banning him, it allows us to learn the metagame of all the other characters, and every other diverse thing that the game has to offer.
Getting back on subject though, what makes the MK ban even more effective is that it has never been done before. We have no idea whats going to be expected. Too much of America plays MK, and has Metaknight experience. He is played way, way, way more over here than in Japan, where many other characters have been developed and have become viable. Japan doesn't play for money over there as much as they do for honor. They have less to lose if they don't pick the strongest character in the game, thus allowing them to develop all of the matchups more. Apex proved this when Nairo got super close to beating Otori, but not even anywhere near beating Nietono, who then lost to Otori. He clearly didn't know the Olimar matchup as much as the MK matchup. With us banning him, it allows us to learn the metagame of all the other characters, and every other diverse thing that the game has to offer.
JustinKamikaze
Smash Ace
Orrrr this might sound really silly, but people could stop complaining and instead put that time into improving! Dumb I know D:
I on the other hand wanna see the rise of Olimar during the MK ban.
I on the other hand wanna see the rise of Olimar during the MK ban.
The problem is, claiming that the changes to the rule set are being put in place only in regards to a single character are not true. While it may have an influence, that's only an extremely viable complaint in the case that the objects in discussion had no glaring issues in regards to competitive viability. You can't say "Brinstar is a 100% perfect stages with no issues at all, except for the fact that MK can go there." If that is the case, then there is clearly a element that requires serious reworking. That isn't the case though. This goes in regards to other stages as well, even the likes of Delfino and Halberd, or rules like the timer and sudden-death ones.
The other characters in Japan aren't developed to an [arguably] greater extent because they aren't "playing to win" (they still are), it's because their rule set doesn't cater to the success of MK. He's only an extremely dominant force because our rule set, from stages to time limit, makes it much easier for him to succeed. Japan, in preparation for Apex, held tournaments using our rule set, and the results showed an increase of MK's viability. In fact, the general consensus of why MK performs so well in America, in the eyes of the Japanese players, is our ruleset(1). This is also a growing opinion, as of post-Apex.
Slightly besides the point, but Nairo 2-0'd Nientono is winners bracket. Nairo mentioned in the interview afterwards that Nientono was just an extremely smart player who learned a lot of his habits over the course of the two sets. It wasn't at all in the lack of match-up experience. Nairo is damn good at the match-up. Nientono is just really smart. If anything though, you could say that the fact that our rule set artificially buffs MK and his results, by the fact that Otori beat Nientono for [what I believe is] the first time here, while Nientonoconsistently wins in Japan.
My analysis of the experiment was probably a pretty bad one, though. The point I was trying to make that was, an experiment only supports a hypothesis. When the only experiment performed is one that leads to what is expected, no new valuable knowledge is gained. We've been running a three to four year long experiment on how our rule set affects MK. A more reasonable experiment would be one where we ran Japan's rule set, and see if the results were still the same. If that was done, and both experiments led to the same conclusion, while it still proves nothing, it does support the conclusion that I'm ignorant and don't have any idea what I'm talking about in regards to reality.
Final edit: I could keep changing and rewording things all day, but I'll just leave it be, let it get ripped to shreds, then try again. also justin your dum
The other characters in Japan aren't developed to an [arguably] greater extent because they aren't "playing to win" (they still are), it's because their rule set doesn't cater to the success of MK. He's only an extremely dominant force because our rule set, from stages to time limit, makes it much easier for him to succeed. Japan, in preparation for Apex, held tournaments using our rule set, and the results showed an increase of MK's viability. In fact, the general consensus of why MK performs so well in America, in the eyes of the Japanese players, is our ruleset(1). This is also a growing opinion, as of post-Apex.
Slightly besides the point, but Nairo 2-0'd Nientono is winners bracket. Nairo mentioned in the interview afterwards that Nientono was just an extremely smart player who learned a lot of his habits over the course of the two sets. It wasn't at all in the lack of match-up experience. Nairo is damn good at the match-up. Nientono is just really smart. If anything though, you could say that the fact that our rule set artificially buffs MK and his results, by the fact that Otori beat Nientono for [what I believe is] the first time here, while Nientonoconsistently wins in Japan.
My analysis of the experiment was probably a pretty bad one, though. The point I was trying to make that was, an experiment only supports a hypothesis. When the only experiment performed is one that leads to what is expected, no new valuable knowledge is gained. We've been running a three to four year long experiment on how our rule set affects MK. A more reasonable experiment would be one where we ran Japan's rule set, and see if the results were still the same. If that was done, and both experiments led to the same conclusion, while it still proves nothing, it does support the conclusion that I'm ignorant and don't have any idea what I'm talking about in regards to reality.
Final edit: I could keep changing and rewording things all day, but I'll just leave it be, let it get ripped to shreds, then try again. also justin your dum
Duff0
Smash Ace
dude i want japans ruleset so bad holy eff can we please use it
Dark Shifter
Smash Ace
agreed with josh.
Yoshiken96
Smash Journeyman
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you earlier Jard. I thought at first when you implied a change in the ruleset that you meant just minor tweaks like the LGL for example, or a level or two being banned.
Actually, I am totally in support of trying out the Japanese ruleset. I will support any sort of change that has given evidence of a successful progression of the Brawl metagame. The Japanese ruleset showed this evidence by demolishing us at APEX, and so I would totally back that.
I guess the reason that I am in support of the ban at the moment is because it is the only big change that the community is considering at the moment. That is why I only want it to be temporary, because I just want to test and see if anything comes out of it. However, if the community decided to try to implement the Japanese ruleset in place of the ban, then I would totally back it and put my vote down for the same reason - just to test it and see what would happen.
I will go for any real big change right now as long as it shows promise, gives good evidence for its support, or that makes sense in my head.
Actually, I am totally in support of trying out the Japanese ruleset. I will support any sort of change that has given evidence of a successful progression of the Brawl metagame. The Japanese ruleset showed this evidence by demolishing us at APEX, and so I would totally back that.
I guess the reason that I am in support of the ban at the moment is because it is the only big change that the community is considering at the moment. That is why I only want it to be temporary, because I just want to test and see if anything comes out of it. However, if the community decided to try to implement the Japanese ruleset in place of the ban, then I would totally back it and put my vote down for the same reason - just to test it and see what would happen.
I will go for any real big change right now as long as it shows promise, gives good evidence for its support, or that makes sense in my head.
The Sage of Shadow: Darklink
Smash Ace
Jard is right. The potential for our country to improve has decreased without new changes to the ruleset and mk's ban and I am sure Japan will continue to improve more than us now. It seems that later on Japan will be able to take top 8 as opposed to top 2 by the time of the next world tournament. Actually I am sure that will happen.
If our community cared about the growth of our country, then MK shouldn't be banned and the stage list should be changed. Artificially making MK stronger because of stages screwed us over at Apex.
This was Otori's first tournament win obviously meaning, he has never won a tournament before. They have to deal with multiple MKs of that caliber (him, Kakera, Masashi) at pretty much every tournament, and they beat them to the point where banning MK seems unthinkable to them. The best people in our country who don't use metaknight just suck compared to theirs.
Otori completely wrecked everyone except Nairo, who almost went even but still lost. Nietono essentially destroyed the loser bracket. Japan wrecked us. This is clearly visible in the sets with them completely outclassing many of our very best players. Ally got his *** handed to him! and M2K lost to a Japanese Rob.
The main difference is that Japan doesn't have a **** attitude towards losing and won't make excuses like thinking a character is bannable. And now they are on a much higher level than us. And it's funny because the last 2 nationals had an olimar win, which suggests he is the best character in the game now. (cough also a Falco and a Snake have won APEX before). In addition, Now many of our smartest players are also going to quit because of this ban.
In Japan, the best player uses IC's and the second best uses Olimar. Japan proved a more evolved metagame can develop with MK being legal. That is the argument.. This ban is silly now, and supporting it is just being ignorant.
^ Mikehaze's anti-ban video
If our community cared about the growth of our country, then MK shouldn't be banned and the stage list should be changed. Artificially making MK stronger because of stages screwed us over at Apex.
This was Otori's first tournament win obviously meaning, he has never won a tournament before. They have to deal with multiple MKs of that caliber (him, Kakera, Masashi) at pretty much every tournament, and they beat them to the point where banning MK seems unthinkable to them. The best people in our country who don't use metaknight just suck compared to theirs.
Otori completely wrecked everyone except Nairo, who almost went even but still lost. Nietono essentially destroyed the loser bracket. Japan wrecked us. This is clearly visible in the sets with them completely outclassing many of our very best players. Ally got his *** handed to him! and M2K lost to a Japanese Rob.
The main difference is that Japan doesn't have a **** attitude towards losing and won't make excuses like thinking a character is bannable. And now they are on a much higher level than us. And it's funny because the last 2 nationals had an olimar win, which suggests he is the best character in the game now. (cough also a Falco and a Snake have won APEX before). In addition, Now many of our smartest players are also going to quit because of this ban.
In Japan, the best player uses IC's and the second best uses Olimar. Japan proved a more evolved metagame can develop with MK being legal. That is the argument.. This ban is silly now, and supporting it is just being ignorant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD11l3omQzM
^ Mikehaze's anti-ban video
Dark Shifter
Smash Ace
i vote for a non ban az state. WHOS WITH ME?
SFA Smiley
The SFA King
**** Olimar.
Why the **** does nobody else realize how ****ing stupid he is? It makes me rage so hard
"Boo the most agressive character in the game, then wanna watch the campiest"
Anyway, besides being salty and hating the dumbest character in smash history
Dude Yummy! I'm recording replays bro and Kira handled you omg
sorry man, not to pour salt in the wound, but this was pretty bad lol
If it's any consolation I got handled by everyone last weekend
@GV7: You wrecked me the hardest all day in those Bowser vs Lucas matches, but I was playing extremely terribly I saw EVERYTHING you were doing I was having a hard time adapting, though. I'll win next time, I never get to use Bowser, but mine is better than that. I'm so confident in fact i'm willing to raise the price of the MM next time.
SFA Smiley
The SFA King
I'm in favor.
KiraFlax
Smash Lord
Most Legit stuff ever! mike haze getting down to the core, with stats, necessary logic finally not over looked, and being reasonable and not just getting pissed off and saying metaknight should be banned without thinking about it long enough. Another thing why metaknight should not be banned. Metaknight really forces the biggest challenge in the whole brawl game, therefor making people that strive to be better at the game acctually get better at a faster rate. all of our players 1 year from now with meta banned would not be as good as our people 1 year from now with meta not banned. Metaknight being banned= More Fun, more diversity, less pissed offness (maybe) More players. Meta not being banned= More Pissed offness, better players as indirect result, (maybe) less players. It all depends on what you want in this game. Want to be more skilled and have less fun or have more fun and be less skilled. when it comes to a competitive scene for any game or sport its mostly always about becoming better in the best way to best your opponents. I believe when playing for fun is when we should be trying to have more fun.
P.S. Im Right and no one else is that disagrees with me because im probably the best guy in the world.
BTW JAPANESE RULESET WAY TOO LEGIT WE WILL BE TESTING THAT OUT, I rule the world I can decide this with no vote.
P.S. Im Right and no one else is that disagrees with me because im probably the best guy in the world.
BTW JAPANESE RULESET WAY TOO LEGIT WE WILL BE TESTING THAT OUT, I rule the world I can decide this with no vote.
SFA Smiley
The SFA King
>You being the best
>Not me
You're better at smash but i'm top tier. I'll give you high, though
The Sage of Shadow: Darklink
Smash Ace
I want to take a vote in AZ about their feelings on the MK ban and the Japanese ruleset. Please read all previous points in this posts and feel free to make new ones. At least consider both sides to the arguments, and please don't troll a vote without consideration. Go watch Mikehaze's video and explore the new MK discussion after apex thread. Read NEW pro-ban and anti-ban sentiments.
PLEASE VOTE and give reasons when you do so.
FOR AN MK BAN RULESET OR THE JAPANESE (NO MK BAN BUT STAGE LIST AND TIMER) RULESET
FOR MK BAN: 0
FOR JAPANESE RULESET: 1
PLEASE VOTE and give reasons when you do so.
FOR AN MK BAN RULESET OR THE JAPANESE (NO MK BAN BUT STAGE LIST AND TIMER) RULESET
FOR MK BAN: 0
FOR JAPANESE RULESET: 1
KiraFlax
Smash Lord
I really would not like to vote for the MK ban, maybe ill vote later
But Japanese ruleset im am for that.
ive literally been training every day since apex no more sitting at home and not training at all and letting people catch up to my skill level.
But Japanese ruleset im am for that.
ive literally been training every day since apex no more sitting at home and not training at all and letting people catch up to my skill level.
The Sage of Shadow: Darklink
Smash Ace
Kevin, there is so much room for improvement with your pit and rob! That makes me excited haha
SFA Smiley
The SFA King
Against Ban
Neutral on stage deal. I understand the points about Japan's stagelist and recognize that i only play on smashville anyway but i REALLY like janky stages.
Neutral on stage deal. I understand the points about Japan's stagelist and recognize that i only play on smashville anyway but i REALLY like janky stages.
KiraFlax
Smash Lord
hmm. I would vote for MK being banned ONLY if it was a temporary test. because People can keep theorizing all they want but until we actually test it thats when we will knowif its better or not. but If its a permenant thing Then I would be against the ban due to my own theories. I really do think we should test it all out as well as japanese ruleset temporarily. like maybe a season or something
The Sage of Shadow: Darklink
Smash Ace
And after 6 months, Japan would continue to surpass the USA
KiraFlax
Smash Lord
**** those guys Im gunna **** ******** and ********* thier**** because that ******** ***** ****** keep meta knight legal and let me at those japanese ************ ******** **** ***** with a ****** ****
The Sage of Shadow: Darklink
Smash Ace
Edit for simplicity
KiraFlax
Smash Lord
Seriously guys we need to start getting serious about going out of state and getting better in general. theres many cali tournaments vegas tournaments and texas tournaments. Lets just plan and go to one. Im so hyped for this year.