Legend of Zelda Archive: Theory Thread

[SinkingHigher]

lol rapax.

"Grasping" means that you are trying to hold on to something that is out of your reach or fleeting.

In other words, your idea that link uses his right hand in Zelda Wii relies on a simple game mechanic and nothing more. What Darkurai is saying is that the picture above DOES count. It's not a "what if", it's solid fact that link uses his right hand now, whether it is to accommodate the wiimote or not.

In other words, you're "grasping" at the idea that link is always left handed, when in actual fact he is not ALWAYS left handed anymore.

 

[Spire]

Darkurai, I hate to break it to you, but I think you too are "grasping" to support this theory.

There was a sword guru in Majora's Mask who 'taught' you how to attack certain ways, but does that mean he's related to Link? Not a chance in the world. Wind Waker, being the succeeding console Zelda to Majora's Mask actually borrowed quite a number of elements from it, along with Ocarina of Time. The kids on Windfall Island are obviously a direct reference to The Bombers [Secret Society of Justice] in Clock Town. Koboli the Rito Postman highly resembles the Postman from MM too, and while his figurine suggests that his ancestors were postmen too, that does not mean he's related to the Hylian postmen (which would be descendents of the Running Man). His Rito ancestors could very well have been postmen too, and his physical appearance is simply a nod to the Postman from MM.

Orca is a sword guru created, again, as a nod to the Swordsman in Majora's Mask.

The Hero's Shade was created as a compliment to Orca, but I highly, highly doubt he has any relation whatsoever to any line of heroes. Link's bloodline isn't the only one who knows swordsmanship. Anyone can! Although, it's interesting to note that Orca's hair strongly resembles Link's hat.

Spoiler

What if Orca is Link's grandfather, divorced from his grandma...[/don't take this seriously]

 

[Rapax]

lol rapax.

"Grasping" means that you are trying to hold on to something that is out of your reach or fleeting.

In other words, your idea that link uses his right hand in Zelda Wii relies on a simple game mechanic and nothing more. What Darkurai is saying is that the picture above DOES count. It's not a "what if", it's solid fact that link uses his right hand now, whether it is to accommodate the wiimote or not.

In other words, you're "grasping" at the idea that link is always left handed, when in actual fact he is not ALWAYS left handed anymore.

Ok, thanks for explanation. Sorry for being silly >_>

But it is still a fact. I'm not grasping in any way. I don't mind if this skeleton is Link or not. I just say that it is a really much bigger possibility than that he should be orca. And Darkurai throws everything he got in to disprove this.

But it is a fact that Link ever used the same hand and it is a fact that nintendo just switched it for the players. And it is also a fact that even then the shade wields his weapon the same way. And it is still also a fact that orca doesn't q_q

So, why should orca suddenly change his weaponhand in dead? q_q

Please, be serious. It can't be Orca. Absolutely no way. >_>

 

[Tacel]

Wait, does the hand the player is holding the Wii Remote in determine what hand Link uses to wield his sword?
I say this because, if the player is left handed, wouldn't it be odd for them to play Twilight Princess?

 

[Jonkku]

Wait, does the hand the player is holding the Wii Remote in determine what hand Link uses to wield his sword?
I say this because, if the player is left handed, wouldn't it be odd for them to play Twilight Princess?

No it doesn't change, and actually no, it's not that weird.. Although I just didn't pay much attention to it. (Metroid Prime 3 is a bit weird to play though, but that's off-topic.)

And yes, I am left handed.

 

[Darkurai]

Please, be serious. It can't be Orca. Absolutely no way. >_>

The theory is not that Orca is the Hero's Shade.

The theory is that he shares the same bloodline as the Hero's Shade, Twilight Princess!Link, and the Blade Brothers.

 

[Spire]

Now I'll give it to you -- the Blade Brothers are definitely an interesting point to make.

Even more interesting is the idea of playing as an ancestor/descendent of Link that is not one of the Links. Look at Castlevania for example. The Belmont bloodline has sported plenty of heroes to topple Dracula, with Simon simply being the most well known. There's a great chance that the Blade Brothers are relatives of Link somehow or another, especially Swiftblade the First. I'd love to play a game as him rather than Link. It doesn't have to be based around Ganon, Ganon, Ganon, but rather a very different approach with a different enemy.

 

[Phantom7]

I actually agree with Rapax on the "right-handed" discussion. Link was right handed in the Wii version of TP and left handed in the GC version. I think that's evidence enough to say it's a simple game mechanic.

 

[Darkurai]

I actually agree with Rapax on the "right-handed" discussion. Link was right handed in the Wii version of TP and left handed in the GC version. I think that's evidence enough to say it's a simple game mechanic.

I direct you once again to the concept art to the new Zelda for Wii. Link is clearly right-handed. Don't pull any "that's only for the gameplay" here; when discussing strictly in-universe things, the real world does not exist.

 

[Spire]

I direct you once again to the concept art to the new Zelda for Wii. Link is clearly right-handed. Don't pull any "that's only for the gameplay" here; when discussing strictly in-universe things, the real world does not exist.

Let me direct you to the fact that most people in the real world are right handed, so for a built-for-Wii game, Link is going to be right handed. This is the first canonical right handed Link, unless they give the option of choosing which hand he is. Then he's either considered indifferent or ambidextrous.

 

[Phantom7]

I direct you once again to the concept art to the new Zelda for Wii. Link is clearly right-handed. Don't pull any "that's only for the gameplay" here; when discussing strictly in-universe things, the real world does not exist.

Haha, it obviously did in the Wii version of TP. They mirrored the entire game so that Link could be right handed (they didn't have time to flip Link's 3-D model and nothing else, since that would cause collision errrors and what not) just because it would be easier for the Wii-remote swordplay, since most people are right handed. I'm sure they're willing to do the same for Zelda Wii.

I've been paying close attention to the concept art. One of the first details I noticed was that Link is right-handed, which made me think, "Oh, since this is a Zelda Wii game, Wii-remote control is going to be included, just like in TP Wii." It's going to be that way for every Zelda game for Wii that uses Wii-remote control.

 

[Spire]

Also, how does the real world not exist, Darkurai? The real world creates and consumes Zelda. The games are built to tend to the needs of the real world, and since the majority of people are right handed, the world needs a game based around that control scheme.

 

[Darkurai]

Let me direct you to the fact that most people in the real world are right handed, so for a built-for-Wii game, Link is going to be right handed. This is the first canonical right handed Link, unless they give the option of choosing which hand he is. Then he's either considered indifferent or ambidextrous.

Right. I just said this.

Haha, it obviously did in the Wii version of TP. They mirrored the entire game so that Link could be right handed (they didn't have time to flip Link's 3-D model and nothing else, since that would cause collision errrors and what not) just because it would be easier for the Wii-remote swordplay, since most people are right handed. I'm sure they're willing to do the same for Zelda Wii.

I've been paying close attention to the concept art. One of the first details I noticed was that Link is right-handed, which made me think, "Oh, since this is a Zelda Wii game, Wii-remote control is going to be included, just like in TP Wii." It's going to be that way for every Zelda game for Wii that uses Wii-remote control.

This doesn't change the fact that when talking about in-universe facts, we can't take real life into account. This argument is akin to saying "The reason that people in Termina look like people in Hyrule isn't because it's an alternate dimension, it's because the developers didn't want to make brand new character models." While it's

Spoiler

probably

100% true, it's not really an argument anyone's going to accept when talking about what Termina is exactly.

Spoiler

please note that Darkurai does not actually believe Termina is an alternate dimension

Also, how does the real world not exist, Darkurai? The real world creates and consumes Zelda. The games are built to tend to the needs of the real world, and since the majority of people are right handed, the world needs a game based around that control scheme.

I do not mean to say that the real world does not exist, but theories like the ones in this thread depend on pretending that Hyrule, Termina, The Great Sea, etc. are the real world. Otherwise, everything can easily be answered with "it's just a game and that's how they wanted it", and thus the fun of all the theories is gone. The real world does exist, but we must pretend for now it doesn't.

 

[Phantom7]

I do not mean to say that the real world does not exist, but theories like the ones in this thread depend on pretending that Hyrule, Termina, The Great Sea, etc. are the real world. Otherwise, everything can easily be answered with "it's just a game and that's how they wanted it", and thus the fun of all the theories is gone. The real world does exist, but we must pretend for now it doesn't.

Unfortunately for you, that is the truth, and as much as you pretend, and as much fun as you have while pretending, it will never be true. So fantasize all you want; the Zelda world will always depend on the real world.

 

[Spire]

"it's just a game and that's how they wanted it".

That's the only truth in your post. The series began like this and continues to thrive like so. Yes, the timeline and connections between the games has become more and more apparent over the years, but it has grown just as much throughout the audience as it has with the developers. In essence, we are as much of masterminds as they are. The difference is they create, we consume.

 

[Darkurai]

Unfortunately for you, that is the truth, and as much as you pretend, and as much fun as you have while pretending, it will never be true. So fantasize all you want; the Zelda world will always depend on the real world.

And you still miss my point.

The canon is all that matters when talking about theories about the canon. That's the whole point. If we were to look at it from the way that you're arguing, this entire thread is moot.

Ikana Canyon doesn't have any history because it's just a game and they needed a place for you to go.

The Gorman Brothers don't have any ancestors or special ways to attack Romani Ranch because it's just a game and someone needs to cause trouble.

The monkeys aren't Kokiri because it's just a game and someone had to help you through the temple.

Orca can't be related to Link because Link's left-handed, and he's only right-handed when he needs to be because it's just a game.

Get it now?
I feel this entire time we've been having two different arguments.

 

[Phantom7]

No, no, no, now you're missing my point! I'm not saying everything doesn't matter because it is all fantasy; I'm just trying to defend the fact that Link will be right-handed as long as Wii-remote controls are part of the game. Simple as that.

 

[Darkurai]

No, no, no, now you're missing my point! I'm not saying everything doesn't matter because it is all fantasy; I'm just trying to defend the fact that Link will be right-handed as long as Wii-remote controls are part of the game. Simple as that.

This is the problem with the entire argument we've been having:

We have been fighting two completely different arguments.

We are officially stupid fanboys.

 

[StinkomanFan]

Researching canon and links (no pun intended) between games is a pointless goal. Who cares if "The Ganondorf from the 2nt game is the same one in the the 9th"? Does it add any fun and playability into the game or does it just lead you into flamewars and disputes? Does every single little bit of trivia and fact lead to any headway ingame? Does the world need to know that "Link and Ganondorf are brothers" in your crackpot theory? No! So who cares? That was my 2 cents. I will now receive flames in any form.

 

[Darkurai]

Researching canon and links (no pun intended) between games is a pointless goal. Who cares if "The Ganondorf from the 2nt game is the same one in the the 9th"? Does it add any fun and playability into the game or does it just lead you into flamewars and disputes? Does every single little bit of trivia and fact lead to any headway ingame? Does the world need to know that "Link and Ganondorf are brothers" in your crackpot theory? No! So who cares? That was my 2 cents. I will now receive flames in any form.

Because it's what we do, and it's how we have fun.

 

[Tacel]

Because it's what we do, and it's how we have fun.

May I join?

 

[Clownbot]

Researching canon and links (no pun intended) between games is a pointless goal. Who cares if "The Ganondorf from the 2nt game is the same one in the the 9th"? Does it add any fun and playability into the game or does it just lead you into flamewars and disputes? Does every single little bit of trivia and fact lead to any headway ingame? Does the world need to know that "Link and Ganondorf are brothers" in your crackpot theory? No! So who cares? That was my 2 cents. I will now receive flames in any form.

Why is it so difficult for you to believe that some people actually enjoy wasting their lives doing stuff like this? It can be fun sometimes, and debates are (usually) healthy for you.

Also, Darkurai, apparently you did mean that WW and TP have to be in the same timeline for this theory to be correct (being that Orca and the Hero's Shade are somehow related ), which automatically disproves it. Correct me if I'm still mistaken, but that's what you seemed to say earlier.

EDIT: Sure thing, TAL! You're going to have some homework though.

No johns.

 

[StinkomanFan]

Why is it so difficult for you to believe that some people actually enjoy wasting their lives doing stuff like this? It can be fun sometimes, and debates are (usually) healthy for you.

From my experiences I've learned that the Jou method (avoid fights and life will be fine) is the way to go.

 

[Darkurai]

Why is it so difficult for you to believe that some people actually enjoy wasting their lives doing stuff like this? It can be fun sometimes, and debates are (usually) healthy for you.

Also, Darkurai, apparently you did mean that WW and TP have to be in the same timeline for this theory to be correct (being that Orca and the Hero's Shade are somehow related ), which automatically disproves it. Correct me if I'm still mistaken, but that's what you seemed to say earlier.

EDIT: Sure thing, TAL! You're going to have some homework though.

No johns.

I suppose it was my mistake naming the theory what I did, but this theory essentially can be summarized as "The Hero's Shade tells Link that the skills he teaches him do not leave their bloodline, and Orca teaches Wind Waker!Link the same moves, meaning Orca must share a bloodline with the Hero's Shade."

To share the bloodline, they do not need to live in the same timeline.

To explain this, let's pretend that Child-Timeline!Zelda and Adult-Timeline!Zelda each have a daughter named Rose and Abbi respectively. Rose and Abbi share the Royal Bloodline despite not existing in each other's timelines.

 

[Tacel]

Sure thing, TAL! You're going to have some homework though.

Thanks!
I have no problem with LoZ homework =D

 

[Spire]

Thanks!
I have no problem with LoZ homework =D

Meaning you're going to need to play and study the games. You may learn to accept Zelda Wiki as your best friend.

 

[Darkurai]

Meaning you're going to need to play and study the games. You may learn to accept Zelda Wiki as your best friend.

TV Tropes helps a little too.

 

[Tacel]

Meaning you're going to need to play and study the games. You may learn to accept Zelda Wiki as your best friend.

I've started paying attention more while I play. And yeah, Zelda Wiki is awesome.

TV Tropes helps a little too.

Thanks.

 

[Phantom7]

I honestly don't think Orca shares the same bloodline.

I think Link might (maybe), since he is a chosen Hero.

But Orca is simply an experienced swordsman with an intelligent brother. There is nothing in the game that implies he may contain the blood of the Hero.

 

[Scott!]

Hm, would his brother also share the bloodline if Orca did? Would that affect the theory in any way? Hm, he'd have to share something, since they're related, but does he show any signs of heroism?

 

[Darkurai]

I honestly don't think Orca shares the same bloodline.

I think Link might (maybe), since he is a chosen Hero.

But Orca is simply an experienced swordsman with an intelligent brother. There is nothing in the game that implies he may contain the blood of the Hero.

Except there kinda is, since he teaches Link skills that are only passed down through the Hero's Shade's bloodline.

Hm, would his brother also share the bloodline if Orca did? Would that affect the theory in any way? Hm, he'd have to share something, since they're related, but does he show any signs of heroism?

I forgot that Orca had a brother, actually.

But he would indeed share the bloodline as well. He wouldn't necessarily know the skills or be a hero, but by definition he would share the bloodline.

 

[Phantom7]

Except there kinda is, since he teaches Link skills that are only passed down through the Hero's Shade's bloodline.

Remember that TP was made after WW, so those techniques were first introduced in WW. This means that the developers did not intentionally include those skills to show that Orca is part of the Hero's bloodline, because the idea that the Helm Splitter and Parry Attack are 'Hero-only' skills didn't even exist until TP's development. They decided to reuse those skills in TP just to include familiar gameplay for WW fans.

 

[Darkurai]

Remember that TP was made after WW, so those techniques were first introduced in WW. This means that the developers did not intentionally include those skills to show that Orca is part of the Hero's bloodline, because the idea that the Helm Splitter and Parry Attack are 'Hero-only' skills didn't even exist until TP's development. They decided to reuse those skills in TP just to include familiar gameplay for WW fans.

This, again, leads into the argument that occurred earlier in regards to real life and story segregation. Sure, we could explain everything with "it's a game and that's just how they made it" but, well, it wouldn't be very fun.

 

[Phantom7]

This, again, leads into the argument that occurred earlier in regards to real life and story segregation. Sure, we could explain everything with "it's a game and that's just how they made it" but, well, it wouldn't be very fun.

That's not the point. Sometimes you just have to face the truth, no matter how fun it may be to resist it. And not everything through Zelda works that way, since Zelda does have a complex and interesting story line, with loads of mysteries for the player to discover on their own. But you must be aware that you can only go to a certain extent with it.

 

[Shade613]

When will the next theory be up. I like disecting them.

 

[Darkurai]

I have not abandoned this thread or anything, but at the moment I simply don't have any theories to work on; at least not ones with sufficient evidence to support them.

 

[Rapax]

What about the snowy part of hyrule? Especially the house there. Who has built it? Why? When?

I'm sure it weren't the yetis and the building itself looks familiar to other hyrule buildings...

Just threw it out there...

 

[Kingdom Come]

I have a theory.

But I am not 100% sure if I should post it here or make my own topic. I don't usually do theories so.

 

[Darkurai]

I have a theory.

But I am not 100% sure if I should post it here or make my own topic. I don't usually do theories so.

Well, I'd suggest making a new thread, but there's nothing stopping you if you want to put it here.

 

[Phantom7]

I have a theory.

But I am not 100% sure if I should post it here or make my own topic. I don't usually do theories so.

Go ahead and post it here if you really want, as long as it's not another theory that can be explained by elements the producers used in more than one game.

Spoiler

I'm looking at you, Darkurai.