APM of Smashers. July Update - The Fastest Peach

[Figgz]

this thread is good
huh, im hungry

 

[Lenca]

well well, very interesting thread...

APM is always needed in anything

 

[BigD!!!]

i'd be interested in some sheik

specifically drephen

 

[Stratford]

Drephen please.

And props to M2K for efficiency. That's a good thing.

 

[AprilShaw]

Don't know if anyone cares about this anymore but, I was bored lol so here it is.

Match: Mango (Puff) vs Armada (Peach) 1.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atJKXt1taMg
I did this for Mango
Match time: 3:43
Idle time (dead): 0:09
Active time: 3:34

DI - Getting hit
11 1st stock
12 2nd stock
13 3rd stock
9 4th stock
DI'ing his own movement
42 1st stock
53 2nd stock
42 3rd stock
31 4th stock
Jumps - 157
Jabs - 2
FTilts - 1
UTilts - 1
FSmashes - 6
USmashes - 1
Dashes/walking - 27
Dash Attacks - 1
Up airs - 14
Bairs - 42
Fairs - 37
Nairs - 36
Pound - 5
Shields - 21
Grabs - 6
Wavedashes - 8
Crouches/Drops - 12
Rolls - 5
Dodges - 11
L-cancels - 41

Total Actions: Somewhere between 668 (C-stick as much as possible) and 804 (no C-stick).
APM: Between 187 and 225

I did not count SDI or fast falls, and I was very conservative, so it's probably higher than this.

 

[demodemo]

i dont want to sound like a skeptic but mew2king vs. armada is not an accurate depiction of his apm at all

a lot of the match was getting tossed around (by both characters), and peach vs marth is not a high apm matchup to begin with

 

[hungrybox]

my apm is like

12

 

[DtJ Jungle]

surely you can hit up then back on the cstick more than 6 times.

 

[SheerMadness]

Cool I wonder what Yoshi's apm in ssb64 would be.

DJC'ing an aerial alone takes 6 inputs. example(z + jump +jump + left + a + z)

Wait do aerials count as 1 or 2 inputs?

 

[AprilShaw]

In SSB64 they'd be 2, in Melee, 1 usually. I accounted for both in my post though, which is why I gave a range lol

 

[Ballistics]

so is it better to have less APM?

 

[Dogysamich]

Realistically, the answer is no. But, the less APM you're able to produce, the less you're able to do.

That doesnt mean that if you can push out a high apm you're automatically better, look at all of the random Foxes in FL. (Im dead serious. It still makes me laugh that Random Smash Master 442 can multishine like shiz).

But, having more just flat out allows you to do more.

If you take 2 brain-dead foxes, the one who's cranking like, 150 or whatever the high end of smash is the guy who comes in on the n.air plane, where at the guy who's only doing 50 is sitting around shooting ground lasers.

On the other side, a puff who's doing like, 50 or so is the one who can actually space b.airs and whatnot and gets called gay while the one who can only pop out 12 or so is your lil sister who has a problem pounding back to the stage.

 

[KAOSTAR]

In SSB64 they'd be 2, in Melee, 1 usually. I accounted for both in my post though, which is why I gave a range lol

when you say an aerial in melee.

does that include "jump" seperately from DIing and direction plus a or z if you dont use C stick?

How would you quantify a marth fade back fair? assuming you are not using the c stick?

 

[Nihonjin]

so is it better to have less APM?

It's statistics, there is no better or worse.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Kira's APM​

So I did the APM of Kira. The top sheik in Socal. He also has nice hair, but I digress.

This is match number 1 against Zhu's Falco, from Active Gamers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNe0zVzskvk

I don't main sheik so there may be some problems but know I did this to the best of my ability.

The number after the second is the frame number. It's out of 30.

If you don't want to read all this stuff then here it is in a nutshell.

Total actions: 504

Total match length: 2:37

APM: 193

Start of match: 4;16

dash right
Shield
short hop
dash right
walk right
Full hop Nair (2)
Shield
short hop left (2)
Needle
Needle cancel
double jump left (2)
fast fall Fair (2)
L cancel
shield
short hop left (2)
waveland (2)
dash right
shield
full hop left (2)
double jump
waveland down (2)
shield
full hop
double jump right (2)
dash right
dash left
shield
wavedash left (3)
dash right
Nair
jab
jab
DI Falco's Dtilt
airdodge
shield
roll left
full hop
waveland right (2)
DI Falco's Nair
double jump right (2)
Dair
airdodge
DI Falco's Dair
DI Falco's Dtilt
Needle
dash left
dash attack
full hop left
fast fall
Dash right
Short hop Nair (2)
DI left
DI Falco's Shine
Fair
Shield
wavedash right (3)
Ftilt (2)
Shield
Spotdodge
Dash right
DI Falco's shine
DI Falco's Bair
Fair
Double jump left (2)
Up B down (3)

Time of Kira's first death: 35;16
Time of re spawn: 37;16
Total Actions: 85

fast fall
dash left
Full hop
Waveland Right (2)
double jump left (2)
Ftilt (2)
Platform drop
Fair right (2)
L cancel
Shield
dash left
wavedash left (2)
dash right
Shield
DI Falco's Dair
Shield
DI Falco's Nair
Dash right
Dash attack
dash right
full hop
Turn around Needle (2)
Needle Cancel
turn around
Shield
Wavedash right (3)
walk left
Shield
Shield Grab
DI falco's Shine
turn around needle (2)
dash left
Shield
wavedash right (3)
dash right
dash left
JC grab (2)
grab pummel
dthrow
charged Usmash (2)
dash right
Full hop Fair (2)
dash right
wavedash left (3)
Ftilt (2)
jab
jab
walk right
Full hop Fair (2)
fast fall
Shield
roll left
wavedash right (3)
Ftilt (2)
Dsmash
DI Falco's Shine

1 minute Mark
actions: 78
total actions: 163

DI Falco's Ftilt
Up B left (3)
Shield
Shield Grab
grab pummel
Bthrow
wavedash right (3)
Ftilt (2)
Short hop Fair (2)
fast fall
L cancel
Needles
needle Cancel
dash left
Full hop
Waveland right (2)
turn around needle (2)
dash right
dash left
Shield
Shield Grab
roll left
dash left
full hop
Turn around needle (2)
Needle Cancel
wavedash left (3)
Shield
Full hop right (2)
Fair
Fast fall
L cancel
Shield
Spot dodge
DI Falco's Fthrow
double jump right (2)
Fair
Up B right (3)
ledge drop
Double jump right (2)
Utilt (2)
grab
grab pummel
bthrow
Short hop left (2)
Bair
fast fall
L cancel
wavedash left (3)
ledge roll right
Needles
Needle cancel
wavedash left (3)
dash right
Shield
DI falco's Fthrow
tech roll right (2)
turn around
dash left
Needles
DI Falco's Dair
DI Falco's Fsmash
Fair
Fair
double jump right (2)
Fair
Up B right (3)
Shield
Roll right
DI Falco's Fthrow
double jump right (2)
Fair
L cancel
shield
Wavedash right (3)
grab
grab pummel
grab pummel
Bthrow
dash right
double jump Nair left (3)
Shield roll left (2)
dash right
JC grab (2)
Grab pummel
Dthrow
charged Usmash (2)
jab
jab
shield
roll left
Ftilt (2)
DI falco's Nair
Ledge drop
double jump left (2)
Up B right-ish (3)
DI Falco's Dsmash

Time of Kira's second death: 1:56;01
Time of re spawn: 1:57;28
actions: 197
total actions: 360

Fast fall
dash left
Full hop
Waveland right (2)
dash left
dash attack

2 minute mark
actions: 7
total actions: 367

charged Usmash (2)
dash right
Wavedash right (3)
Full hop left (2)
Bair
turn around
Ftilt (2)
walk left
Dsmash
turn around
wavedash left (3)
ledge drop
double jump Right
Needles
Needle cancel
dash right
shield
roll right
wavedash right (3)
shield
dash left
DI Falco's Nair
Shield
Roll right
Fsmash
dash left
shield
full hop
waveland down (2)
platform drop
walk left
dash left
Full hop
Nair
DI right
dash right
wavedash right (3)
dash left
wavedash right (3)
needles
dash left
shield
short hop right (2)
Nair
L cancel
grab
dash left
shield
roll right
grab
DI Falco's Jab
Full hop left (2)
Fair
turn around
walk right
full hop
turn around needle (2)
Needle cancel
dash left
JC grab (2)
shield
roll right
Wavedash right (3)
Needles
dash left
Shield
Full hop right (2)
Shield
DI falco's Uthrow
double jump left (2)
Dair right (2)
L cancel
Shield
DI Falco's Nair
Get up attack
Shield
Roll left
Jab
Dsmash
Shield
Roll left
Ftilt (2)
Shield
wavedash right (3)
dash left
JC grab (2)
grab pummel
Dthrow
dash left
dash right
dash left
JC grab (2)
DI Falco's Jab
Dsmash
dash left
Wavedash right (3)
dash left
Dsmash
Needles
dash left
fast fall
Double jump
Fair
Up B (2)

End of Match: 2:45;15
Actions: 137
Total actions: 504

Total match length: 2:37

APM: 193

At least it's more than a Marth or something lol

 

[Ballistics]

Hmm you guys seem to be collecting alot of data.

I think it would be more interesting to just collect lots of teching data.

something like...

9 out of 10 players tech rolling left after being upthrown and landing on the ground in the far right zone of the stage

 

[Tee ay eye]

So I did the APM of Kira. He has nice hair. He's also the top sheik in Socal, but I digress.

Fixed for accuracy

 

[Kira-]

So I did the APM of Kira. The top sheik on the entire West Coast. He also has nice hair, but I digress.

fixed again

not that it means much more lol

Thanks Stab! i move around a lot more than i thought O_o

 

[JFox]

some do eggm, im almost positive his fox would set a new record for highest APM of smashers

 

[jugfingers]

somone record zhu's hands when he does his dustless dashdancing and then post it on youtube.

thats gotta be a fair number of aps

 

[AprilShaw]

when you say an aerial in melee.

does that include "jump" seperately from DIing and direction plus a or z if you dont use C stick?

How would you quantify a marth fade back fair? assuming you are not using the c stick?

When I say aerial I literally just mean the attack, not jumping or DI or anything. Direction + A would be 2 inputs, C stick would be 1. And yeah, if you held the direction you would DI afterwards, so I counted that as 2 separate inputs when it would often be only one.

And I don't know what you mean by fade back. You mean retreating F-air? I'd say, jump (one) DI back (two) forward + A (four) DI back again (five). Possibly fast-fall and l-cancel for 7 total.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Kira, get over yourself.

 

[Zoler]

ugh.... >.<

....

 

[RockCrock]

This topic is not about Starcraft APM. You are free to leave.

 

[Strong Badam]

hahaha get ***** Zoler

 

[Tomacawk]

Zoler, that isn't true. Early game takes a lot of micro too due to scouting, small intensive unit usage, and it takes massive apm if you get cheese/rushed early
late game requires far less apm because you're basically a moving your troops for positioning and macroing while waiting for a skirmish
anyway, back on topic
apm of fumi someone? or taj's m2?

 

[Zoler]

Early game do take lots of APM indeed tho I never said otherwise. I said that anyone can have a high APM in the early game because it's just easier to spam then. I do not agree with you that late game is "basically" moving and macroing.

Say TvP for example. You're mining your base, build turrets, expanding, scouting, scanning, moving army, harassing, etc.

Early game is more like.. move scout, make scv, wait..
I don't question your abilities but what are your iCCup rank?

Also I take back what I said about APM not being needed in smash that was silly of me. Indeed you can collect many valuable data from reading the players APM.

 

[Tomacawk]

well Terran takes high APM at all times, they're all about mobility, intense unit management, and harrass...
I quit SC a long time ago but my friends that I still talk to are C+/B- on iccup so if I still played I'd be C/C+
I have some older fpvods of me if you wanna check it out on youtube, although it's kinda janky because I didn't know like any builds (I had quit for 2+ years then came back and didn't know **** lol)

 

[null55]

lol what a stupid sounding game.

take it to PMs. /mod tone

 

[Zoler]

lol what a stupid sounding game.

take it to PMs. /mod tone

You sound stupid lol jk

lets get this back on track, whatever the initial discussion was about xD

 

[QED]

It doesn't necessarily make a difference, its just for curiosity, people act like this game is easy and if you tell them you do over 200 inputs per minute that might shut them up a little bit.

Someone is like OH insert other fighting game is way more technical and difficult, and I'm like F* you I do 200 actions a minute in smash how many buttons do you press in Streetfight what you walk back and forth 1 time a second, for 60 apm with a spike of 62 apm for fireballs, well eat a **** then.

disclaimer: I have nothing but disrespect for other fighting game players, I myself have played more than 30 fighting games and enjoyed the vast majority of them plenty.

^True facts.

Then again, the fighting game players who diss on smash for being "too easy" are already idiots who think the number of buttons is actually a factor in a game's depth. -,-

A usual Street Fighter game has 6 buttons (3 punches and 3 kicks). SF4 has 8 (if you include the 3P/3K buttons).

Smash has:
A, B, X, Y, Z, L, R... aaaaand a c-stick.
So we have 7 buttons and an extra stick. (Not to mention L and R are pressure sensitive)

I don't know about everyone but I use ALL buttons:
C stick for aerials/smash/DI, Y for normal jumping/JC grabs, X for multi-shines, L for L-canceling, R for shield/wave related stuff and Z for throws/quick aerials.

So... the button # comparison, to me at least, does not make much of an argument.

I honestly believe the only viable argument for other fighters is that Melee players do not have to input multiple motions before executing "special moves." For example in SF series, qcf -> qcf-> attack would do a super. Or in SNK serires, you have something like qcb -> hcf -> attack.

However you can always counter that with, "We need super percise angles... so how are those 8 directions?" or "I press more than back/down+back for defense."

I know I've gotten off topic but I always felt strong about this. Special input motions are tech saavy and cool but simple input commands like Melee let's you focus on the mechanism of the game and increases fluidity in control.

... hm... maybe I should just make thread comparing Melee to other major brand fighters. Maybe then I'll truly understand why I love this game so much.


On topic: I play quite a few RTS so I was always interested in APMs for Melee. Thanks for the data. The numbers were around what I always expected.

 

[Eggm]

well Terran takes high APM at all times, they're all about mobility, intense unit management, and harrass...
I quit SC a long time ago but my friends that I still talk to are C+/B- on iccup so if I still played I'd be C/C+
I have some older fpvods of me if you wanna check it out on youtube, although it's kinda janky because I didn't know like any builds (I had quit for 2+ years then came back and didn't know **** lol)

I made it to C- last season and am close to C- now and I only have like 120 apm and i play all Terran. I need higher apm tho... I wish I had my melee apm in SC I'd be godly lol.

 

[1048576]

I wonder what Brawl's APM is like?

 

[Tomacawk]

30-60
characters with projectiles might break 70

 

[Aftermath]

I went ahead and tabulated one of my old matches (Samus). It's one in which I played reasonably well and I think represents my average technical playing. It's on Yoshi's Story so that affects a few aspects of my APM, but in this particular match I didn't make great use of the stage.

This is the match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrwF-K8yNg0

It's from a tournament that was in Jan '08.

As far as the counts go, since I'm the one that played, I know exactly how I hit buttons, so I can tell when I hit or held a direction for consecutive wavedashes and whether or not I used the cstick. Surprisingly though, I didn't really wavedash all that much in this match.

The format I'm doing is # of inputs.Action performed. I know that I always wiggle free from grabs and out of tumble, but I obviously only counted things which produce and effect. One thing I get told a lot though is that I have the most controller movement of pretty much anyone, but the least happening on screen of anyone as well.

Match Starts 0:02

3.Fall through missile
3.Wavedash
2.Wavedash
2.Wavedash
2.Jump left
2.Missile
1.Jump
3.FFL Uair
1.Usmash -_-
1.DI the throw
2.Jump left
1.Waveland
1.DI the dsmash
1.Jump left
3.FFL bair
1.Dash left
1.FF
3.Jump right and bair
2.L-cancel sex kick
1.Fall through platform
2.Fair (missed L-cancel)
2.Ftilt left
2.Ftilt right
1.Crouch
2.Jump uair
3.LC fair
1.Fall through platform
3.LC fair
2.FH bair
3.FFL uair
3.Wavedash
3.Double jump right
2.Airdodge down
3.Fall through missile
2.Dashjump left
3.Sex kick FFL
2.Dtilt
1.Shield
2.DI from a couple hits
0.Death
1.FF
2.Missile
2.Dashjump right
2.Missile
1.Dash left
3.Fair FFL
2.Dashjump left
2.Doublejump right
2.Waveland right
3.FFL uair
5.Fall through fair FFL
2.Jump sex kick
1.Shield
1.Dash left
2.Missile
4.Dash jump sex kick LC
5.Fall through fair FFL
2.Jump uair
2.Doublejump bair
3.Fallthrough missile
5.Turnaround wavedash FF
1.Stand up
1.Charge beam
3.Wavedash FF
2.Edge regrab
2.Edge regrab
4.Edge wavedash
3.Wavedaash
3.Doublejump airdodge down
3.Fallthrough missile
2.Jump left
3.FFL uair
2.Jump fair
3.Jump FF fair
4.Jump fair FFL (and shield)
3.Wavedash
2.Dashjump left
3.Doublejump waveland
3.FFL bair
3.Dashjump sex kick
4.Doublejump dair FFL (shield)
1.Spotdodge
4.Fallthrough fair LC (shield)
3.Jump fair
1.FF
1.Shield
2.UpB
1.Fall through platform
2.Doublejump uair
2.Roll
1.CC
3.Fair LC
4.Dashjump sex kick LC
3.Fallthrough missile
1.Beam
4.Dashjump missile
2.Dash grab
1.Uthrow
4.Jump fair FFL
1.Fall through platform
3.Doublejump bair
3.Wavedash
3.Wavedash
2.Fsmash
3.Wavedash
3.Wavedash
1.Ftilt
2.Dash attack
3.Jump missile
1.Dash
2.Missile
2.Dash attack
1.Dash left
2.Doublejump right
1.Waveland
1.Ftilt
3.Wavedash
2.Wavedash
3.Wavedash
3.Jump right sex kick
2.Spotdodge
3.Fallthrough bair
2.Jump left
1.Dash left
3.Wavedash
4.Dashjump sex kick FFL
1.Spotdodge
5.Fallthrough bair FFL
4.Doublejump airdodge down
1.Jab
1.FF
4.Edgehop missile
3.UpB right
1.Stand up
2.Utilt
2.Spotdodge
2.Fsmash
3.Jump missile
3.Fallthrough missile
2.Walk and jump
3.Doublejump bair
3.FFL Uair
1.Dsmash
1.Shield
3.Wavedash
1.Dash
3.Jump missile
2.Dashjump
3.FFL sex kick
2.Jab combo
2.Spotdodge
3.Jump bair
2.Bair LC
1.DI
2.Techroll
1.DI
2.Jump right
3.Doublejump uair
2.Missile
4.Dashjump sex kick FF
4.Doublejump sex kick LC
3.Wavedash and walk
3.Wavedash
3.Dashjump sex kick
2.Spotdodge
3.Fall through sex kick LC
1.Dash
2.Wavedash and walk
5.Turnaround wavedash FF
1.Stand up
1.Dsmash
1.Shield
2.Ftilt
1.Dash
4.FF doublejump waveland
2.Fsmash
5.Dashjump uair FFL
4.Doublejump bair
1.Techroll
3.Dashjump sex kick
1.Charge Beam
1.Shield
3.Wavedash
1.Dash
3.Doublejump turnaround beam
4.Edgehop missile
3.Jump missile
3.Fallthrough missile
1.Dash
3.Wavedash
4.Doublejump airdodge down
3.Fallthrough missile
1.Dash
4.Jump fair FFL
4.Dashjump missile
4.Walk off FFL uair (shield)
3.Jump fair
1.Shield
5.Jump fair FFL (shield)
2.UpB
1.Fall through platform
2.Doublejump uair
1.Walk right
2.Missile
1.Walk left
2.Missile
3.Dashjump sex kick
1.Sex kick
3.FFL uair
1.Dash
2.Missile
1.Dash
3.Wavedash
1.Dash right
2.Dash attack left
4.Dashjump missile
1.Dash
2.Missile
1.Dash
3.Wavedash
3.Wavedash
2.Missile
5.Turnaround wavedash FF
3.Edgehop
1.Shield
4.Doublejump bair
1.FF
2.Dash FF
1.Walk
2.Dashjump.
3.Doublejump waveland
3.FFL uair
4.Dashjump sex kick FF
3.Wavedash
1.Dash
3.Doublejump missile
5.Dashjump fair FFLC
1.Jab
2.Ftilt
3.Dashjump FF
4.Doublejump right sex kick LC
1.Charge beam
3.Wavedash (shield)
2.DI
0.Death
3.FF missile
3.Wavedash
3.Wavedash
3.Jump uair
3.Doublejump uair
2.Spotdodge
4.Fallthrough fair FF
1.Shield
4.Wavedash FF
4.Edgehop missile
3.Jump missile
3.Fallthrough missile
5.Dashjump fair FFL
2.Dash jump
2.Waveland
3.FFL uair
4.Dashjump bair
2.Fsmash
1.CC
3.Fallthrough missile
2.Doublejump left
4.Rising grapple (and pull-in)
5.Edgehop fair LC
2.Jump uair
3.FFL fair
2.Jump uair
2.FF uair
2.Jab combo
1.DI
4.Edgehop sex kick
2.Dash attack
4.Doublejump bair waveland
1.Ftilt
1.Shield
2.Jump left
2.Missile
2.Dash jump
2.Missile
3.Wavedash
1.Jab
2.Dtilt
1.DI
2.Doublejump right
2.Bomb
4.Edgehop wavedash
1.Spotdodge
1.DI
0.Death
3.FF missile
4.Dashjump missile
1.Dash
2.Missile
5.Dashjump sex kick FFL
3.Fallthrough missile
4.Dashjump fair FF
2.Dash attack
1.Shield
3.Wavedash
1.Dash
3.Wavedash
5.Dashjump fair FFL
3.Wavedash
2.Dash jump
1.Fair
2.Sex kick LC
3.Dashjump sex kick
4.Doublejump waveland
3.FFL uair
2.Dash attack
3.Jump missile
3.Fallthrough missile
3.Dashjump sex kick
2.Sex kick LC
3.Wavedash
2.Missile
1.Turnaround
2.Doublejump right
3.Sex kick FFL
2.Jab combo
3.Wavedash
1.Dash FF
4.Doublejump missile
1.Dash
4.Jump sex kick FFL
1.Jab
2.Dash attack
2.Spotdodge
1.Jab
2.Fsmash
3.Wavedash
2.Missile
5.Turnaround wavedash FF
7.Edgehop uair FFL
3.Jump uair FF
3.Doublejump bair
2.Missile
3.Fallthrough missile
5.Turnaround wavedash FF
1.Stand up

End Match 3:52

Total time 3:50
Total Actions 820

APM = 214

Lower than I'd have liked, but probably on a Pokestadium match where I spam missiles it'd be higher (I only used like a dozen missiles in this match). I think I tested it before and if one were to just shoot missiles repeatedly on the platforms, the APM would be a bit over 360 (it's like 50 frames per cycle, 6 inputs per cycle).

 

[RockCrock]

Ah, a Samus match, fantastic! Thank you very much Aftermath, this is a great contribution! And the APM is right in line with other characters, something I didn't expect. Excellent.

 

[Tomacawk]

anybody wanna play starcraft? I reinstalled and got chaoslauncher up and running so I'm ready to game

 

[Lovage]

anyone wanna do APM for one of my matches???

i recommend this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=570_FGChVUk
or this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGl057lja2w

i use u-stick for all my smashes and aerials, and be aware of when i run on platforms sometimes i do running shield drops (2 inputs)

 

[Wingy]

Wow! What a great discussion. Never knew how fast Melee smashers were going. Good work!

 

[EmuKiller]

Hey!

Something I just thought of is APM based on specific moments. in SFIV, your APM spikes whenever you combo and is significantly less when you're idle playing footsies or turtling.

Could someone do APM for specifically tough situations? As in APM during a tough 4-10 second combo.