Anyone else + Ultimate's DLC = underwhelming?

[Shroob]

For the first time since Brawl, when I started speculation, I have a solid list of characters that I now want in Smash- broken up into three tears, as well as into Nintendo or Third Party.
There are just about as many Nintendo characters on this list as their are third parties- in each tier.
However, my difficulty with Nintendo is that, while there are some top tier characters from represented franchises (Paper Mario, Captain Toad, Dixie, Eevee, Meowth/Team Rocket), majority come from series that I feel would do well to be in Smash in the first place. I do wish instead of Byleth, maybe even Pythra, that we had Chibi Robo, Sukapon, Balloon Fighter, Andy ('Wars), Dragaux, Excite Biker, Chorus Kids, Lip, Isaac...I honestly don't understand why we do not- it suits Nintendo well to bring more attention to these quirky, mostly well selling, games.

I mean, there's an argument to be made that a lot of those would probably be base game inclusions, at least going by how Ultimate is functioning right now.


Byleth, Pythra and Min Min are all Switch-Era characters, and coincidentally, they're all DLC as well.


While I'm not Nintendo, and I don't pretend to be, it "seems" that their plan for Ultimate DLC is 2-fold. Include characters with titles on the Switch to help double as promotion, while also adding Switch-era characters to keep Ultimate from feeling dated.


Ultimate only launched with 3 stages from Switch-Era games, and besides BotW Link, we had no true characters from the Switch, aside from BotW Link, and some costumes for Mario. Now, we have 6 Switch stages and 4(5?) Swich-Era characters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I mean, there's an argument to be made that a lot of those would probably be base game inclusions, at least going by how Ultimate is functioning right now.


Byleth, Pythra and Min Min are all Switch-Era characters, and coincidentally, they're all DLC as well.


While I'm not Nintendo, and I don't pretend to be, it "seems" that their plan for Ultimate DLC is 2-fold. Include characters with titles on the Switch to help double as promotion, while also adding Switch-era characters to keep Ultimate from feeling dated.


Ultimate only launched with 3 stages from Switch-Era games, and besides BotW Link, we had no true characters from the Switch, aside from BotW Link, and some costumes for Mario. Now, we have 6 Switch stages and 4(5?) Swich-Era characters.

But what about me? What about Jujubee!?

(you get it or you don't)

- Since Three Houses is my 2nd most played Switch game behind Ultimate... got no problem. Sure its another FE character but the moveset differences give them variety compared to all the other FE characters already included. I don't get the mob mentality where they welcome Marth Clones with open arms but when a FE character does something different they want to burn them at the stake.

I have not seen a single person who dislikes Byleth, then go and praise Marth x 4.

 

[SmashSSL]

FP2, however, has been a complete mess. 2, likely 3, first party characters, which aren't surprising and are boring at this point. 2 secondary characters, villains, and one got in over the protagonist for no clear reason (thought the issue with Heihachi was not being able to incorporate Tekken, but Sakurai seems to know how apparently)

Did... did you just call Kazuya.... you know... the PROTAGONIST... a "secondary character that got in over the protagonist for no reason"?

Not sure it appealed to all audiences. If you don't like fighting games, what are the odds you care (at least positively)? Plus, fighting game fighters might be a bit...too accurate to their source games. It may have been unique with Ryu, but with our fourth now... He'll be unique, but I'm not a fan.

A character doesn't need to appeal to literally every single audience to be good (under that definition, we literally would have NO good characters at all, not even the ones you like). That argument would make just as much sense with anything else. If you don't like jrpgs, what are the odds you care (at least positively) about all the jrpg characters? Also, four isn't as big of a number as you think. Fire Emblem (a single, far from mainstream, specific series) getting eight characters is fine, but fighting games (an entire genre and the very reason why Smash Bros even exists at all in the first place) having (god forbid) four is where you draw the line?

 

[Shroob]

But what about me? What about Jujubee!?

(you get it or you don't)

I get the reference lol


But yeah, aside from Piranha Plant, who is just weird in general(Only DLC with a Palutena's guidance, no stage, not part of either pass, etc), it's 'kinda' obvious that Nintendo's handling 1st parties with a bit of marketing and "new"-ness mixed in together. It's a mix of business, and keeping Ultimate from not feeling "old", if that makes sense. Like, for as much as people may groan about Byleth's inclusion, Byleth came out in 2019, before him, our most recent character in Smash was Incineroar in 2017, and before that, Corrin in 2015.


That's not to say I don't want older Nintendo characters of course, because I do. Dixie and Andy both would be amazing, but Andy feels a little too late now.

 

[pupNapoleon]

- Since Three Houses is my 2nd most played Switch game behind Ultimate... got no problem. Sure its another FE character but the moveset differences give them variety compared to all the other FE characters already included. I don't get the mob mentality where they welcome Marth Clones with open arms but when a FE character does something different they want to burn them at the stake.

I have not seen a single person who dislikes Byleth, then go and praise Marth x 4.

I posted a note about this in another thread. What has surprised me about the Fighter Pass since Day 1 is some of the third-party picks. There are three companies that are major players with Nintendo that haven't gotten a character.

1. Komei-Tecmo - Ryu Hayabusa fits perfectly
2. Ubisoft - Rayman fits perfectly
3. Namco - Several great options but it seems like Lloyd or Hiehachi fit well

The fact that these three companies have gotten no IP in either pass and the fact that Komei-Tecmo and Ubisoft have no fighters in the game is just shocking with how supportive all three companies have been towards Nintendo.

Obviously with only two spots left (unless something funny is announced), at least one of them will be left out if not all of them. I would be curious as to why there is a lack of representation from all three if they are not among the last two spots.

I do think that characters from these three companies would have been far better supported than what we got.

Replace Terry with Heihachi and Joker with Ryu Hayabusa for example and you get more Nintendo-friendly IP and far better support. Rayman also should have found a way into this pass with how much his fanbase has been drug through the mud by Sakurai in the constant teases, trophies appearing in Smash 4, etc. they have received. No fanbase, except maybe Geno, have gone through worse.

It is very curious to me that this was posted after the announcement of Kazuya... did you come to Smashboards, but not bother to watch the direct (with a damn near guarantee of a newcomer)?

I get the reference lol


But yeah, aside from Piranha Plant, who is just weird in general(Only DLC with a Palutena's guidance, no stage, not part of either pass, etc), it's 'kinda' obvious that Nintendo's handling 1st parties with a bit of marketing and "new"-ness mixed in together. It's a mix of business, and keeping Ultimate from not feeling "old", if that makes sense. Like, for as much as people may groan about Byleth's inclusion, Byleth came out in 2019, before him, our most recent character in Smash was Incineroar in 2017, and before that, Corrin in 2015.


That's not to say I don't want older Nintendo characters of course, because I do. Dixie and Andy both would be amazing, but Andy feels a little too late now.

If this is the case... then I wish we got what we have in every other Smash- a legacy Nintendo character. Lip, Excite Biker, Balloon Fighter (which is one of the few characters I say SHOULD have gotten in, given they are Iwata's creation, and he was a mentor to Sakurai, and influential to Smash).

 

[SmashSSL]

And to OP, come on.
You have the option to buy the specific characters you want individually, you have the option to wait until you know what character is going to be released before buying them, you were literally warned to NOT buy the whole pass blindly if you don't trust its value (something that should not even be necessary to begin with) and you try to blame YOUR poor decision on Nintendo? So yes, Sakurai's warning took less time than the DLC announcement... because it's something that.... takes little time to say? Simple as that. How many times do you need to be told something as obvious as "don't buy something if you're not sure you're gonna like it"?

There's a thousand and one reasons to complain about Nintendo and to believe they are predatory (and no, that did not just start with 3D all stars and all those recent events, plenty of those reasons were already there since much earlier), and it's perfectly valid to not be interested in the DLC choices (I myself can't pretend I care about every single one), but arguing that people being stupid and making stupid decisions is somehow Nintendo's fault is sad.

If I go to a mexican restaurant and, having perfectly viable alternative options, I go out of my way to ask for the spiciest meal they have (after being warned by the waiter to not order that if I can't handle spice), it's not gonna be the restaurant's fault when I start crying because I couldn't handle the spice....

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would have loved that [getting all the characters at once]. Removes the toxic leaks and disappointment about wanted characters not making it.

And kills the immense publicity and promotion that Smash Bros brings.
As a person who values Smash as a consumer, and for its value to Nintendo... I pass on the notion of getting them all at once.

I definitely agree, it was just my preference.

Had there been more Smash fan requests in the DLC pack, sure the speculation would be fun. However, it is like "Rayman is coming" only to see him passed up every time.

Someone jokingly referenced a Smashboards theory in that every character added since Steve had less than 10 pages of posts about the character or no threads at all. It is hype if you get big fan requests like Banjo but not really hype if you do not get fan requests. The lack of big fan requests has created toxic speculation about the DLC. DLC really isn't that great for most Smash fans (sure you can justify nearly every pick but most of them were not highly requested). It is fun to hype if you get stuff that people want, not so much if you don't.

I understand this (as someone who has not had the strongest connection to most series- though I do love a character like Terry, who shows me how necessary he is, once announced).
But similarly... there isn't all that much to gain if they appeal to people who are already so hyped about the game that they come to a forum and post about it. We are already dedicated fans, who mostly all bought all the content, and certainly bought the base game.

I thought FP1 was perfectly done, even if most of the characters were ones I personally didn't want. I got my dream character (Banjo & Kazooie), a character from a series I wanted in Smash (Persona). Hero, while not for me, is incredibly iconic and it's great having 4 characters in one moveset. While I'm tired of Fire Emblem, they didn't get a unique character in the base game, so Byleth makes sense for a first party character (unlike a Pokemon). And Terry is unique in not being expected, not being insanely popular, but is still iconic in its own circles and represents SNK in general.

Gotta love that Fire Emblem is a required series to get a new, unique character, each game.

I will say, with the exception of Steve, you probably mentioned the two most popular IP in the pass. However, I think the key is who was missing. For example, is there any excuse for why Crash and/or Rayman are not in the pack? They are highly clamored for and both are very iconic Franchises. What about Ryu Hayabusa who is basically the last major NES character not in the game after Simon's inclusion. People parody his series regularly. Just check out the AVGN episode about Ninja Gaiden (actually there might be more than one).

Tekken's announcement today wasn't a bad one. Many people think we should have gotten Heihachi instead and I could see that but other than that comment, I definitely think Tekken deserved a spot. Seph probably should have been a base game character since FF7 was already represented in Smash but still his addition was HUGE. However, you take those two and Steve and/or Banjo out and you really don't have much in the pass that gets people hyped.

The only thing I will comment on here, is that there are several first party NES games that were also very big... Excite Bike!

Kazuya is an amazing pick from a very successful fighting game. From what we could see, they adapted the moveset perfectly from Tekken to Smash. This was a solid pick that appealed to all audiences and also gave us an unique fighter that looks to have a fun-to-play playstyle. Regardless who is the last fighter, I’m not going to hold it again and Sakurai and his team for not including “popular picks”. I like Crash, Lloyd, Sora, and the rest of them but I have no qualms seeing Min-Min, Byleth, Terry, Seph, Steve or anyone else taking their place. There are countless factors that go into character negotiations and I would wager “popular pick characters” are low on the list; especially if they don’t prefer a fun playstyle as Sakurai once said. Sakurai doesn’t “owe” us these characters and expecting that is borderline childish. I get people get frustrated or demoralized when they don’t get a character they wanted and money was possibly spent to purchase a product that is, more or less, defunct. I hate to say it but that’s life and the more you learn to roll with what you got; it’s easier to progress forward.

I do not think Sakurai 'owes' us anything... quite honestly, I feel he owes it to himself to include some of the aforementioned popular picks. There has, to my knowledge, not ever been a video game wherein so many franchises collide, with so many partnered parties. Sakurai, being a fanatic of the medium, is blessed for the well-earned right to be able to choose, possibly, any character in the video game pantheon with which to play- to the point that companies are coming to him, begging for characters. From his point of view, even, and for the legacy of the game itself, it does feel that some bigger franchises would be a wildly famous idea. A lot of the characters I most want have nothing to do with me; Lara Croft, as an example, I have no connection towards- but her legacy and sales defy many other series.

Not sure it appealed to all audiences. If you don't like fighting games, what are the odds you care (at least positively)? Plus, fighting game fighters might be a bit...too accurate to their source games. It may have been unique with Ryu, but with our fourth now... He'll be unique, but I'm not a fan.


Plus, he may have had one of the most boring trailers for Ultimate. And they finally put Ganondorf in a trailer, to dunk on him. Maybe not as disrespectful as Sephiroth's...or maybe mroeso.

But, yes, what a state of affairs that so many Smash fans don't seem to actually want Nintendo content. Calling Pyra and Mythra shill picks seems especially odd as they are, what? Three or more years old at this point? Maybe for the series, but at this point it kind of deserved more. Were the Inklings shilling? Ridley? Fox? Samus? Captain Falcon?

I really am at a loss for when people don't want more fighting game characters (particularly when they do want platformers, or ARPGs/ JRPGs/ RPGs, where the fighters are likewise just about the same).
Smash is the biggest video game crossover of all time... how sensible is it to have fighting game characters crossover here? Very. It makes complete sense; in fact, it is a shame we only have 4, only having come in the last five years.

 

[mynameisBlade]

You know... I have to agree for the most part.

The following characters would not have been missed if they didn't get in: Joker, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Steve as a playable fighter and not just a Mii which would have saved a #### ton of development time apparently AND still gotten JUST AS BIG OF A REACTION........and now Kazuya. I would not be wondering where these characters were if they were not in. I wouldn't be looking at the Smash roster and saying..."Where is Terry Bogard?"

I imagined a much better and more appealing world where we get things that are far more remarkable and ground breaking such as the following replacements I have picked out which shatter more barriers than ever before and would be overall far more impressive than the mostly eastern created characters that we currently have as DLC:

Crash Bandicoot - This should've been a given from the get go. He was even in the if there was a Smash 2 list made by Sakurai long ago, which Banjo Kazooie was also in. Having Sony's most memorable gaming icon go head to head with Segas and Nintendos is really what should've happened, but I highly doubt it now.


Scorpion - Mortal kombat (as well as many other American made gaming franchises) isn't in Smash because it wasn't made by Japanese developers. Let's just rip the band-aid right off and not sugar coat it. Sakurai himself said that the language barrier makes it extremely difficult to work with many companies. I call bull ****. Sakurai puts whatever he wants in Smash. And he barely makes the right decisions in my opinion. Any characters he adds will always sell and get positive receptions unless its Fire Emblem for the one thousandth time.....

((((((CAN YOU IMAGINE IF SMASH HAD DONE THE IMPOSSIBLE???? With Ryu already in from Street Fighter and now Scorpion from Mortal Kombat ??? WHAT THE ?? MK AND SF in the SAME GAME ???!! Mortal Kombat VS Street Fighter has always been the fight that ALL fighting game fans have wanted to see. Sakurai could've easily put his name on that accomplishment...yet sadly.... It just doesn't seem possible with his or Nintendo's mind set. AND DON'T EVEN try to tell me that this #### wouldn't SELL LIKE HOTCAKES....))))))

Agumon - I can't think of better marketing for a character.... NOW YOU CAN FINALLY HAVE POKEMON VS DIGIMON IN THE SAME GAME????!!!! I would argue Agumon is the single most HYPE character Bandai Namco has in their arsenal, but because he isn't a humanoid with the look of an anime character..he will never happen... (sigh)

Master Chief - Same reason as Crash Bandicoot... Just because we got Banjo, that means NOTHING at all toward Xbox.. Banjo is a RARE character in all of our heads. Not even Steve or Cuphead scream Xbox to anybody in their right mind.... Master Chief is that other icon we needed, but I know for sure that ain't happening now. Sheesh they sure missed out on some damn beautiful choices so far.

Sora - Look I don't care what anyone has to say about Sora being in Smash. It's clear that the majority of the fandom wants him. IT'S LIKE PRINTING MONEY???? !!! Seriously, how in TF are we not getting BIGGER NAMED characters...

SMASH ULTIMATE??? was probably a poor choice of names. It implies the greatest version of someone or something.....uhhhh... Look I have to be honest. Minus the DLC for this game. It IS WITHOUT A DOUBT...the best Smash game we've had to date (despite Brawl having a way better Story Mode in Subspace), but geezus the DLC picks are atrocious for the most part.. For most people that played Smash when they were younger until now... Characters like Joker, Byleth, Steve, and Min Min just don't do a damn thing for us.. Period.

It is fine when you put that stuff in as base game for the newer audiences that you want to bring in, but IMO I think DLC should be for ONLY fan requested characters. A few surprises is always expected, but I honestly think Sakurai just does what he wants....and I disagree with most of his choices and don't glorify him like most Smash enthusiasts seem to. I'm sure he is a good guy, but he isn't god with ultimate abilities to make everything perfectly, because if he was, this roster would have way more cereal box WORLD RECORD SHATTERING characters in it than it does right now...

Even little things like swap out a character like Corrin for Dixie Kong... YOU KNOW ONE OF THOSE CLASSIC CHARACTERS.... Trade out Wii Fit for Waluigi... People like simple stuff...man. Swap Chrom echo for Funky Kong Echo... Easy stuff.... LEGACY is what Smash has always seemed like it was shooting for, but apparently not..and passionate folks like me just have to swallow that big disappointing pill and realize that Legacy of a character really doesn't mean the same thing to everyone, but I wish it did... I really really wish it did. I know for sure Nintendo had the money to get each and every one of these characters if they wanted to.. I would just like to know whyyy....tf... wouldn't you...?

Anyways its nice to let out the true feelings of simple things here and there from time to time. I do passionately care about Smash getting its just desserts, but I think Sakurai knows that regardless of what characters he adds (bar anymore FE) that they will just sell, because its Smash, so he does wtv tf he wants to, and the fact the some of us can SENSE that vibe is so damn annoying... But whatever... This is just my opinion. Have a good damn day!

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah no, you're not alone there. I, personally, am feeling very validated in my decision to not buy either of the Fighter Passes, and not just because I don't play Smash anymore. I'm probably in the minority where so-called "internet-breaking" picks like Steve and Sephiroth do very little for me, but when a more niche/unexpected pick like Banjo or Pyra/Mythra shows up, I am ALL OVER that ****. Considering this DLC has been almost nothing but the former and seen very little of the latter, I'm left feeling underwhelmed overall. I gotta say, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of how every new character HAS to be a big-name third-party guy these days, to the point that I honestly really want Nintendo to pull something crazy like Funky Kong or something for the last character just to throw everyone for a big ol' loop.

(Though I will say, watching from afar as the Smash community breaks out in hives over another fighting game character being added to the game has been pretty damn amusing.)

So to you... the best fighters pass is a troll pass?

You know... I have to agree for the most part.

The following characters would not have been missed if they didn't get in: Joker, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Steve as a playable fighter and not just a Mii which would have saved a #### ton of development time apparently AND still gotten JUST AS BIG OF A REACTION........and now Kazuya. I would not be wondering where these characters were if they were not in. I wouldn't be looking at the Smash roster and saying..."Where is Terry Bogard?"

I imagined a much better and more appealing world where we get things that are far more remarkable and ground breaking such as the following replacements I have picked out which shatter more barriers than ever before and would be overall far more impressive than the mostly eastern created characters that we currently have as DLC:

Crash Bandicoot - This should've been a given from the get go. He was even in the if there was a Smash 2 list made by Sakurai long ago, which Banjo Kazooie was also in. Having Sony's most memorable gaming icon go head to head with Segas and Nintendos is really what should've happened, but I highly doubt it now.


Scorpion - Mortal kombat (as well as many other American made gaming franchises) isn't in Smash because it wasn't made by Japanese developers. Let's just rip the band-aid right off and not sugar coat it. Sakurai himself said that the language barrier makes it extremely difficult to work with many companies. I call bull ****. Sakurai puts whatever he wants in Smash. And he barely makes the right decisions in my opinion. Any characters he adds will always sell and get positive receptions unless its Fire Emblem for the one thousandth time.....

((((((CAN YOU IMAGINE IF SMASH HAD DONE THE IMPOSSIBLE???? With Ryu already in from Street Fighter and now Scorpion from Mortal Kombat ??? WHAT THE ?? MK AND SF in the SAME GAME ???!! Mortal Kombat VS Street Fighter has always been the fight that ALL fighting game fans have wanted to see. Sakurai could've easily put his name on that accomplishment...yet sadly.... It just doesn't seem possible with his or Nintendo's mind set. AND DON'T EVEN try to tell me that this #### wouldn't SELL LIKE HOTCAKES....))))))

Agumon - I can't think of better marketing for a character.... NOW YOU CAN FINALLY HAVE POKEMON VS DIGIMON IN THE SAME GAME????!!!! I would argue Agumon is the single most HYPE character Bandai Namco has in their arsenal, but because he isn't a humanoid with the look of an anime character..he will never happen... (sigh)

Master Chief - Same reason as Crash Bandicoot... Just because we got Banjo, that means NOTHING at all toward Xbox.. Banjo is a RARE character in all of our heads. Not even Steve or Cuphead scream Xbox to anybody in their right mind.... Master Chief is that other icon we needed, but I know for sure that ain't happening now. Sheesh they sure missed out on some damn beautiful choices so far.

Sora - Look I don't care what anyone has to say about Sora being in Smash. It's clear that the majority of the fandom wants him. IT'S LIKE PRINTING MONEY???? !!! Seriouisly...! How in TF are we not getting BIGGER NAMED characters...

SMASH ULTIMATE??? was probably a poor choice of names. It implies the greatest version of someone or something.....uhhhh... Look I have to be honest. Minus the DLC for this game. It IS WITHOUT A DOUBT...the best Smash game we've had to date (despite Brawl having a way better Story Mode in Subspace), but geezus the DLC picks are atrocious for the most part.. For most people that played Smash when they were younger until now... Characters like Joker, Byleth, Steve, and Min Min just don't do a damn thing for us.. Period.

It is fine when you put that stuff in as base game for the newer audiences that you want to bring in, but IMO I think DLC should be for ONLY fan requested characters. A few surprises is always expected, but I honestly think Sakurai just does what he wants....and I disagree with most of his choices and don't glorify him like most Smash enthusiasts seem to. I'm sure he is a good guy, but he isn't god with ultimate abilities to make everything perfectly, because if he was, this roster would have way more cereal box WORLD RECORD SHATTERING characters in it than it does right now...

Even little things like swap out a character like Corrin for Dixie Kong... YOU KNOW ONE OF THOSE CLASSIC CHARACTERS.... Trade out Wii Fit for Waluigi... People like simple stuff...man. Swap Chrom echo for Funky Kong Echo... Easy stuff.... LEGACY is what Smash has always seemed like it was shooting for, but apparently not..and passionate folks like me just have to swallow that big disappointing pill and realize that Legacy of a character really doesn't mean the same thing to everyone, but I wish it did... I really really wish it did. I know for sure Nintendo had the money to get each and every one of these characters if they wanted to.. I would just like to know whyyy....tf... wouldn't you...?

Anyways its nice to let out the true feelings of simple things here and there from time to time. I do passionately care about Smash getting its just desserts, but I think Sakurai knows that regardless of what characters he adds (bar anymore FE) that they will just sell, because its Smash, so he does wtv tf he wants to, and the fact the some of us can SENSE that vibe is so damn annoying... But whatever... This is just my opinion. Have a good damn day!

I agree with every single one of your choices- they are all in my top 10 third party characters.

Yes, I want Agumon vs Pikachu, but that is because of my connection to Digimon, and my desire for the 90s digital pet era to be represented.
Yes, I want Scorpion- I want MK v SF, but I also want MK v SF v Tekken (hell, add in Soul Caliber, Virtua Fighter, King of Fighters, ARMS, Joy Mech FIght, Darkstalkers, Guilty Gears...I want a fighting game crossover with all these games).

But these are not objectively better choices, they are just your (or in this case, mine as well) choices.
You want Funky Kong... and I think that is ludicrous. If DK has a clone, then give him the Melee variety, smaller and faster, and actually have a character that you say we get in Funky Kong, as a Legacy character.... lets get DK Jr. THAT actually means something to Nintendo. Funky Kong has never mattered to the games, much less the company.

You say you want fan requests- but then assume these weren't fan requested. Hell, you state Steve isn't important. How can that be true? This- coming from a guy who only expected a Mii costume, because I didn't think they would put the effort into what we got, what really showcases the craze that was Minecraft.

As far as record shattering? That is again, your opinion. Yes- I fully agree Sakurai chose Joker and Terry from his own bias. But there is a distinction to be made between what I want, and logical reason as to right and wrong.

 

[C3CC]

I completely regret having bought both passes. I trusted Sakurai. If I had known that I'd only like Banjo and Min Min, I would have only bought those two separately. I don't even know who the **** Kazuya is, same thing applied for Joker, Hero, Terry and Byleth when they were announced.

Completely underwhelmed and disappointed. I don't even care about who the final character is at this point.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I completely regret having bought both passes. I trusted Sakurai. If I had known that I'd only like Banjo and Min Min, I would have only bought those two separately. I don't even know who the **** Kazuya is, same thing applied for Joker, Hero, Terry and Byleth when they were announced.

Completely underwhelmed and disappointed. I don't even care about who the final character is at this point.

What did you think you were getting... and why did you think such?
Additionally, if the first FP bothered you so much (disliking 80 percent of it), why did you then buy the second?

 

[mynameisBlade]

So to you... the best fighters pass is a troll pass?

I agree with every single one of your choices- they are all in my top 10 third party characters.

Yes, I want Agumon vs Pikachu, but that is because of my connection to Digimon, and my desire for the 90s digital pet era to be represented.
Yes, I want Scorpion- I want MK v SF, but I also want MK v SF v Tekken (hell, add in Soul Caliber, Virtua Fighter, King of Fighters, ARMS, Joy Mech FIght, Darkstalkers, Guilty Gears...I want a fighting game crossover with all these games).

But these are not objectively better choices, they are just your (or in this case, mine as well) choices.
You want Funky Kong... and I think that is ludicrous. If DK has a clone, then give him the Melee variety, smaller and faster, and actually have a character that you say we get in Funky Kong, as a Legacy character.... lets get DK Jr. THAT actually means something to Nintendo. Funky Kong has never mattered to the games, much less the company.

You say you want fan requests- but then assume these weren't fan requested. Hell, you state Steve isn't important. How can that be true? This- coming from a guy who only expected a Mii costume, because I didn't think they would put the effort into what we got, what really showcases the craze that was Minecraft.

As far as record shattering? That is again, your opinion. Yes- I fully agree Sakurai chose Joker and Terry from his own bias. But there is a distinction to be made between what I want, and logical reason as to right and wrong.

The Funky Kong, Waluigi, and Dixie are just etc, etc, etc, etc, examples. Nothing more. I do think OUR picks would've been so much more well received overall if I do say so myself. Unless I say the words "Steve is not important" I'm not implying that either. Steve is just my could've been a Mii costume and Sakurai would've been just as glorified for it as he was for working his ass off and making him fully playable, which in turn would save development time for any of the picks that I listed instead.

Steve is def important, BUT if a character can be made into something LESS significant with almost the same payoff.. I see no reason why Sakurai chose the hard way on that one.. Doesn't really know how to pick his battles me thinks. Thank you for your constructive feedback.

 

[Dizenn]

I disagree. I think its a pretty wonderful collection of DLC. Sure, some characters are more exciting or interesting than others, but overall, they've given us so much. Imagine in 2015 I told you that this game will include Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool, Sephiroth, and Steve, you would absolutely **** yourself in awe. In addition to bringing back every previous fighter, adding several new fighters for the base game, they're giving us 12 additional characters for DLC. Compared to Smash 4 DLC this bunch is phenomenal.

And yeah sure they could just give us every single fan favorite that the people want just to make us happy, but at the end of the day, they make their choices for a reason. Whether its copyright issues, moveset creation difficulty or promoting a new game or just because Sakurai wants it, thats totally valid.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I have not seen a single person who dislikes Byleth, then go and praise Marth x 4.

In Smash 4 Roy got praised when he was first announced. If my memory serves me right it was when Corrin was announced that people jumped on the hate wagon.
Chrom was also positively recieved (if not neutral) when he was announced for Ultimate,

 

[pupNapoleon]

In Smash 4 Roy got praised when he was first announced. If my memory serves me right it was when Corrin was announced that people jumped on the hate wagon.
Chrom was also positively recieved (if not neutral) when he was announced for Ultimate,

The only ones I saw that enjoyed Roy, were people who valued a veteran (not specifically him), and who may have mained him... the ones that I specifically remember, also liked Corrin.

Regardless, my point was not that no one liked M4rth (trademarking that), but that those who liked them also liked the FE newcomers.

I disagree. I think its a pretty wonderful collection of DLC. Sure, some characters are more exciting or interesting than others, but overall, they've given us so much. Imagine in 2015 I told you that this game will include Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool, Sephiroth, and Steve, you would absolutely **** yourself in awe. In addition to bringing back every previous fighter, adding several new fighters for the base game, they're giving us 12 additional characters for DLC. Compared to Smash 4 DLC this bunch is phenomenal.

And yeah sure they could just give us every single fan favorite that the people want just to make us happy, but at the end of the day, they make their choices for a reason. Whether its copyright issues, moveset creation difficulty or promoting a new game or just because Sakurai wants it, thats totally valid.

I do want a compiled list of companies that have stated they want their character in Smash Bros.
To my immediate recollection, not all verified, it includes:

• Crash Bandicoot (Blizzard-Activision)
• Rayman (Ubisoft)
• Ryu Hayabusa (Koei Tecmo)
• Scorpion (NetherRealm Studios/WB)
• Doom Slayer (Bethesda)
• Shantae (Wayforward)

That just about consists of all the companies I want, alongside the ones that exist.

 

[Shroob]

The only ones I saw that enjoyed Roy, were people who valued a veteran (not specifically him), and who may have mained him... the ones that I specifically remember, also liked Corrin.

Regardless, my point was not that no one liked M4rth (trademarking that), but that those who liked them also liked the FE newcomers.


I do want a compiled list of companies that have stated they want their character in Smash Bros.
To my immediate recollection, not all verified, it includes:

• Crash Bandicoot (Blizzard-Activision)
• Rayman (Ubisoft)
• Ryu Hayabusa (Koei Tecmo)
• Scorpion (NetherRealm Studios/WB)
• Doom Slayer (Bethesda)
• Shantae (Wayforward)

That just about consists of all the companies I want, alongside the ones that exist.

Gust is one. They're responsible for the Atelier series of games.

Proof: https://www.dexerto.com/smash/ateli...smash-ultimate-fighter-collaboration-1429594/

 

[Jassassino]

Honestly, brilliant passes. Kazuya obviously takes my top spot without even being in the game yet, but everyone else is a joy to play in my opinion - except Steve.

I don't know what people could have possibly been expecting. Did you all really think they'd add Geno, a character that's relatively akin to a relic from a game not many people are even aware of? I think there's a tendency among Smash players, competitive ones especially, to expect everyone to know all these niche picks because the game had some sort of influence within their closed sphere and genre. It's not how it works.

Besides, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero, Terry, Byleth - all of them have great gameplay opportunities and their inclusion is fantastic. The Mementos and KOF stages are phenomenal.

 

[Ze Diglett]

So to you... the best fighters pass is a troll pass?

If by that, you mean a pass full of obscure/surprise characters, then sure, I'll bite. That said, if you're calling Banjo a troll pick, I don't really know what to say to you. (Because I am counting characters that are popular, but not exactly current like him and Geno under that umbrella as well.)

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I completely regret having bought both passes. I trusted Sakurai. If I had known that I'd only like Banjo and Min Min, I would have only bought those two separately. I don't even know who the **** Kazuya is, same thing applied for Joker, Hero, Terry and Byleth when they were announced.

Completely underwhelmed and disappointed. I don't even care about who the final character is at this point.

Not knowing those characters says more about you than the quality of the pass. Call this ***** patrick cause he stay under a rock.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Boop:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[BlazGreen]

The DLC is clearly aimed at trying to appeal to as many people as possible which can have the unfortunate side effect of only having 1 or 2 characters per pass that people find interesting. For me personally I found FP1 to be very underwhelming and when combined with the issues I had with the game itself such as the buffer system and the online, I stopped caring about Smash pretty much for the whole of 2019 and the first part of 2020. Anyway here's my rating for the DLC and I'm sure you'll be able to see where I became interested again.

: I love joke characters in fighting games and so I gave Plant a shot when he came out but I found its moveset to be clunky and awkward to use. At this point I'm just indifferent to the character. 5/10

: I've never played a Persona game but I liked his reveal at the game awards. His gameplay is fine but as far as comeback mechanics go, Arsene is a bit bland. I like the stage and music though. 6/10

: Again, I've never played a Dragon Quest game so my initial hype wasn't the greatest but I found his command special to be one of the more interesting mechanics they've added. Unlike with Joker though, his stage and music selections area bit underwhelming. 6/10

: This was the first DLC reveal that got me hyped and I was really looking forward to seeing how they played. I do have some issues like the eyes on the Banjo's model looking a bit weird and how disappointing they are competitively but those are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. Overall a solid reveal. 8/10

: I usually prefer 3D fighting games to 2D but I still love that Terry was included. He has a interesting moveset including a fun but fair comeback mechanic and an absolutely incredible selection of music as well as a unique stage. If I had more of personal connection to SNK then he would probably rank even higher. 8/10

: It's honestly impressive how poorly they timed this reveal. After an entire Fighter Pass of 3rd party characters they not only decide to end on a first party but on a franchise that had already received some criticism for oversaturation. As a non Fire Emblem fan this was such a deflating reveal and Byleth's moveset didn't do much to win me over. The only positive I can give is that at least some of the music is good. 3/10

: After the Byleth fiasco it was probably wise to let people know beforehand than a first party reveal was coming and as for Min Min herself I think she's ok. She has a unique playstyle even if it isn't my cup of tea, an interesting stage and I like ARMS music so overall a decent enough inclusion. 6/10

: Initially I was not interested in Steve at all as I have very little experience with Minecraft but after watching the Sakurai Presents for Steve I was blown away by how they were able to implement so much of Minecraft's mechanics into Smash. Although his playstyle isn't for me I have nothing but respect for his inclusion. 7/10

Amazing trailer, fun moveset and finally some more FF7 songs in Smash. I do feel a bit bad that other FF games haven't had a chance but I can't say no to such an iconic villain. 9/10

: Xenoblade 2 is my favourite Switch game and I've wanted a rep from that game since Ultimate was revealed but I knew that I'd have to settle for Rex even though he wasn't my favourite character. Imagine my surprise when they revealed that the Aegis was playable without Rex and that Pyra and Mythra could swap at will. Now I understand that not having Rex means that they don't accurately portray Xenobalde 2's combat but I can forgive that because I really like the transformation gimmick and how they play overall. The only negative I have is that the Counterattack remix isn't that great but honestly that's it. 10/10

: Similar to Sephiroth I didn't know I wanted Kazuya until he was announced. I grew up with the PS1 and Tekken was the only fighting game series I played during that era. Kazuya was my favourite Mishima and one of my favourite characters in the series overall so the fact that he was announced over Heihachi and Jin makes this reveal all the more special. From what I've seen so far Sakurai has done another amazing job at translating his moveset from Tekken to Smash right down to the hit sounds and the announcer. Another great reveal. 9/10

I'm lucky in that the most recent characters have appealed to me but I know not everyone thinks that way. I'm sure there are many people who view Pyra and Kazuya in the same way that I view Hero and Min Min and that's the problem when you try to appeal to whole gaming community rather than just Smash fans.

 

[Perkilator]

Curious- why would an assist trophy character disappoint you?

Simple; an AT being promoted in the same game in which they're an Assist Trophy would not only be wasted dev time (not that I'm a programming wizard or anything), but make their role as such pointless.

 

[UserKev]

I have yet to purchase any of DLC, PP, Terry and Sephiroth are on my to get whenever list. o_o For god's sake, can people who feel otherwise express how they feel without hearing constant *Well, you shouldn't have bought the DLC, use common sense, etc?" Honestly, we're being insulted beyond nitpicky when the Fighters pass would have maybe been reversed in reception if we got more of our "dream" wants in it. If your happy with the DLC, go make a "Anyone + Love = Ultimate's DLC" and praise them there and leave us to grieve.

 

[Perkilator]

Out of curiousity, how would you feel if Ultimate's DLC went like this?

Bonus Fighter: Bandana Waddle Dee

Vol. 1:

1. Sakura Shinguji
2. 
3. 
4. /Mythra
5. 

Vol. 2:

1. 
2. Crash Bandicoot
3. Sephiroth
4. Kazuya
5. Dr. Eggman
6. Sora

Okay, expanding on this a bit; how would you feel if this was the entire Smash roster?

Spoiler: 64

Starters

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Unlockables

• (Stage fought: Peach's Castle)
  • Complete 1P Game as any character
  • Complete Board the Platforms with
  • 25 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Dream Land)
  • Complete 1P Game with 3+ lives and no continues
  • 50 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Planet Zebes)
  • Complete 1P Game within 20 minutes without continues
  • 75 Vs. Matches
• (Meowth) (Stage fought: Saffron City)
  • Complete Target Test and Board the Platforms as all starters
  • Complete 1P Game as all starters
  • 100 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Melee

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. /
15. (Scizor)

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Mushroom Kingdom II)
   • Complete Stage 1 of Adventure Mode with the time ending in a ":X2" in the second's slot, then defeat in less than a minute and clear the rest of the mode
   • 10 Vs. Matches on Mushroom Kingdom
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • Complete Event Match #37
   • Summon 100 Poke Ball Pokémon
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. Ayumi Tachibana (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Unlock 100 different Trophies
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Battlefield)
   • Clear 100-Man Melee
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Fountain of Dreams)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all starters without continuing
   • Play Vs. Matches at least once with all 15 starters
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: Great Bay)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode with 20 characters
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Event Match #29
   • Clear Adventure Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Final Destination)
   • Play for a total of 15 hours
   • Summon a Legendary Pokémon 75 times
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as on Hard+ without continuing
   • Clear every bonus game in Classic Mode as
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Flat Zone)
    • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all other characters
    • Clear Target Test as all other characters
    • Clear 50 Event Matches
    • 1000 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Brawl

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. /
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Luigi's Mansion)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode with no continues
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic mode on Normal+ within 12 minutes
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: )
   • After beating SSE, head to the Ruined Zoo and run away from the Pig King Statue without losing a life; you'll fight Meowth instead of Porky, and winning ends the level there
   • Clear 20 Event Matches
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Corneria)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear 100-Man Brawl
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode on Normal+ as any character
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Path to the Ruins without losing a life; you'll fight Mewtwo instead of Wario
   • Clear Boss Battles on Hard+
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Temple)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Wilds I without losing a life; you'll fight Roy instead of Galleom
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Clear Target Smash with 20+ characters
    • 1000 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: )
    • Defeat Tabuu in SSE
    • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
    • Play 10 hours of Vs. Matches
    • 1100 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Complete Target Smash on all difficulties with any character
    • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Brawl
    • 1200 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: Mario Bros.)
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Collect 200 different Trophies
    • 1300 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the Lake; you'll fight Toon Link instead of Rayquaza, and winning ends the level there
    • Clear Classic Mode as without continuing
    • 1400 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Glacier without losing a life; you'll fight Wolf instead of Meta Knight/Lucario
    • Clear Boss Battles on any difficulty
    • 1500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (Base)

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 
23. 
24. Snivy
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. 
29. 
    • 
    • 
    • 
30. 
31. 
32. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Magicant / Onett)
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • Clear Classic Mode on 2.0+
   • 10 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Defeat 100 enemies in Smash Run (3DS only)
   • Collect at least 50 different pieces of equippment
   • 20 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Summon a Poké Ball Pokémon 100 times
   • Summon a Master Ball Pokémon 50 times
   • 30 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Corneria / Orbital Gate Assault)
   • Clear 100-Man Smash
   • 40 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Gerudo Valley / Skyloft)
   • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
   • 50 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
   • 60 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Dream Land GB/ )
   • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Smash
   • 70 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Brinstar / Pyrosphere)
   • Get 30 KO's with Samus's Final Smash
   • Defeat Ridley on the Pyrosphere stage (Wii U only)
   • 80 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Hyrule Temple)
   • Get 30 combined KO's with 's and 's Final Smashes
   • Outlast to up to 300% damage
   • 90 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Golden Plains / Mario Galaxy)
    • Get a successful recovery as 5 times
    • 100 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and Snivy on 6.0+
    • Clear a Final Battle in Smash Run without taking damage
    • 125 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: Reset Bomb Forest / Palutena's Temple)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and on 5.5+
    • 150 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: PAC-MAZE / PAC-LAND)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Eat 50 Ghosts on PAC-MAZE (3DS only)
    • 200 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: Arena Ferox / Coliseum)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • 300 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: 3D Land / Delfino Plaza)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • 400 Vs. Matches
16. (Stage fought: Duck Hunt)
    • Clear Target Blast as all other characters
    • Clear Classic Mode as all other characters on 6.0+
    • Unlock every Masterpiece (Wii U only)
    • 500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (DLC)

DLC Pack 1

1. 
2. Ayumi Tachibana
   • Stage: Fourside

DLC Pack 2

1. 
   • Stage: Suzaku Castle
2. 
   • Stage: New Pork City (Wii U only)

DLC Pack 3

1. 
   • Stage: Midgar
2. 

DLC Pack 4

1. (Azura)
   • Stage: Opera House (3DS only)
2. 
   • Stage Umbra Clock Tower

Spoiler: Ultimate (Base)

64

• 1.
• 2.
• 3.
• 4.
  • 4ε.
• 5.
• 6.
• 7.
• 8.
• 9.
• 10.
• 11.
• 12.

Melee

• 13.
  • 13ε.
• 14.
• 15.
• 16.
• 17.
• 18.
• 19. Ayumi Tachibana
• 20.
• 21.
• 22.
• 23.
• 24.
• 25.
• 26.

Brawl

• 27.
• 28.
  • 28ε.
• 29.
• 30.
• 31.
• 32.
  • 32ε.
• 33.
• 34.
• 35.
• 36.
  • 36ε. Shadow
• 37.
• 38.
  • 38ε. (Alph)
• 39.
• 40.
• 41.
• 42.

Smash 4

• 43. Snivy
• 44.
• 45.
• 46.
• 47.
• 48.
• 49.
• 
  • 50.
  • 51.
  • 52.
• 53.
• 54.
• 55.
• 56.
• 57.
• 58.
• 59.
  • 59ε. (Echo)
• 60.
• 61.
• 62.

Newcomers

• 63.
• 64.
  • 64ε.
• 65. Crash Bandicoot
• 66.
• 67.
• 68.
• 69.
• 70. Bandana Waddle Dee

Spoiler: Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. Crash
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. Bandana Waddle Dee
21. 

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 1

• 71. Sakura Shinguji
  • Stage: Grand Imperial Theater
• 72.
  • Stage: Yggdrasil's Altar
• 73.
  • Stage: Spiral Mountain
• 74.
  • Stage: King of Fighters Stadium
• 75. Sora
  • Stage: Station of Awakening

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 2

• 76.
  • Stage: Ramen Bowl
• 77. Sir Arthur
  • Stage: Demon Village
• 78.
  • Stage: Northern Cave
• 79-80. /Mythra
  • Stage: Cloud Sea of Alrest
• 81. Kazuya Mishima
  • Stage: Mishima Dojo
• 82. Dr. Eggman
  • Stage: Studiopolis Zone

 

[Blackwolf666]

The only ones I saw that enjoyed Roy, were people who valued a veteran (not specifically him), and who may have mained him... the ones that I specifically remember, also liked Corrin.

Regardless, my point was not that no one liked M4rth (trademarking that), but that those who liked them also liked the FE newcomers.

That’s your personal experience then. I’m looking at the overall reception and know people that loved the reveal of Chrom, Roy and even Lucina at their initial reveals but immediately hated any FE character that wasn’t a M4rth(I like that lol)tm; besides maybe Robin. You can argue that it wasn’t for that reason but it’s still fact.

 

[Janx_uwu]

I love that Fire Emblem's top selling game needs a character, because it is Fire Emblem. No other series seems to be treated this way. Even Three Houses, the best selling game, was under 3million physical copies by March 2020. I don't see how this warrants it's character. Pokemon, Donkey Kong...

Because Fire Emblem has a rotating cast-that's why we only get protagonists, because they are the face of each and every game. And the reason Awakening gets more than one character is because it virtually saved the Fire Emblem franchise. Someone like Donkey Kong-while I would love to have Funky Kong, Dixie Kong, or others, we have all we need-a main protagonist, a side protagonist, and a main antagonist. Now, I know what you're thinking-"but what about Final Fantasy, that has a rotating cast!"-and I wholeheartedly agree. But third party franchises are much more complicated to get into Smash. I reccomend watching this video, it explains what I'm trying to convey better than I could.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I have yet to purchase any of DLC, PP, Terry and Sephiroth are on my to get whenever list. o_o For god's sake, can people who feel otherwise express how they feel without hearing constant *Well, you shouldn't have bought the DLC, use common sense, etc?" Honestly, we're being insulted beyond nitpicky when the Fighters pass would have maybe been reversed in reception if we got more of our "dream" wants in it. If your happy with the DLC, go make a "Anyone + Love = Ultimate's DLC" and praise them there and leave us to grieve.

Seriously, do people go to support threads for characters they don't want and reply 'no i do not support this'?

Now I value the most obscure, forgotten 1st party character over the most popular and requested 3rd party character but when Kazuya was revealed that memory of my 7 year old self playing Tekken 2 with my cousin had a divine light shine upon him. It was glorious. If only it was King instead though haha

 

[Arthur97]

Did... did you just call Kazuya.... you know... the PROTAGONIST... a "secondary character that got in over the protagonist for no reason"?


A character doesn't need to appeal to literally every single audience to be good (under that definition, we literally would have NO good characters at all, not even the ones you like). That argument would make just as much sense with anything else. If you don't like jrpgs, what are the odds you care (at least positively) about all the jrpg characters? Also, four isn't as big of a number as you think. Fire Emblem (a single, far from mainstream, specific series) getting eight characters is fine, but fighting games (an entire genre and the very reason why Smash Bros even exists at all in the first place) having (god forbid) four is where you draw the line?

You can't appeal to everyone, almost certainly true, but I was responding to someone saying that it appealed to all audiences.

And part of the issue with the fighting game fighters is how they seem to try so hard to make them play like their games instead of Smash. For some like say, Kirby, that works just fine as they don't conflict, but when you try to turn Smash into another fighting game, I'm not a big fan. But, hey, if people are allowed to think most of the FE cast are Marth clones, why can't I think the FG cast up to this point have been eerily similar? I won't deny they're unique (where they're supposed to be), but that doesn't mean I didn't try to do focus attacks with Terry cause they seemed similar to me.

And, yeah, I give FE a pass, it's third party, bigger than you might be giving it credit, and two of the fighters are minimal effort additions even compared to Ken. If you haven't noticed that's the bigger issue with me. Third parties. Particularly when they have no real relevance to Nintendo.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Seriously, do people go to support threads for characters they don't want and reply 'no i do not support this'?

As someone who frequented the old Geno thread way back in the day, unfortunately, yes.

 

[Oracle Link]

I just think it is weird how we got 0 Kirby or Zelda Reps since Brawl/meele!

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

As someone who frequented the old Geno thread way back in the day, unfortunately, yes.

Holy smokes you’re right. I remember that now

 

[Noler_Mass]

a lie of a ballot pick.

... idk about that one. Cloud had pretty heavy support.

also, unrelated to the quote, but I feel there’s a difference between assessing each character and being personally uninterested/disappointed (a respectable opinion), and acting like buying the FP is an actual moral dilemma and Nintendo not picking highly speculated characters is somehow ethically wrong (a less respectable opinion)

 

[Brother AJ]

Seriously, do people go to support threads for characters they don't want and reply 'no i do not support this'?

Now I value the most obscure, forgotten 1st party character over the most popular and requested 3rd party character but when Kazuya was revealed that memory of my 7 year old self playing Tekken 2 with my cousin had a divine light shine upon him. It was glorious. If only it was King instead though haha

To be fair, the OP proposed a question presumably for anyone to answer. Support threads are something else entirely. If they wanted to only hear from people that agreed with them they probably should've specified that in the OP.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

To be fair, the OP proposed a question presumably for anyone to answer. Support threads are something else entirely. If they wanted to only hear from people that agreed with them they probably should've specified that in the OP.

True but they aren't disagreeing with the OP, they are telling people they were dumb for buying the pass.

 

[SmashSSL]

Because Fire Emblem has a rotating cast-that's why we only get protagonists, because they are the face of each and every game. And the reason Awakening gets more than one character is because it virtually saved the Fire Emblem franchise.

Eh. I feel the franchise's emphasis on multiple character casts could be perfectly represented via Assist Trophies instead of taking all the time and resources of a full character so many times. That's the same reason why we have a pokéball item instead of giving Pokémon 40 characters. I mean, at the end of the day, characters are the ultimate representation of a franchise, items and stuff like that don't even compare, imo characters should depend more on how big and important the franchise itself is, and how much representation it warrants (with third parties obviously having a higher bar), and then if the franchise itself has a big focus on characters/items/locations, etc. represent those as Assist trophies or items, or stages. It's like those people who argue Zelda has a bigger representation than FE in Smash just because it has items, but items are not even close to compensating for characters... at the end of the day, you play the game and you feel more reminded of FE than Zelda, characters just have an inherently bigger impact.

I mean, Pokémon has a huge emphasis on... well... the pokémon themselves, which are also "characters". With that argument you could justify Pokémon getting like 40 playable characters in the game but... no. It has a much more logical amount of them (yes, it still has more playable characters than most franchises.... Because pokémon, as a franchise, given it's status, rightfully deserves a lot of the main form of representation, not simply because of it's "rotating cast"), and the focus the series has on its "characters" is represented via the pokéball summons. It could perfectly be the same with Fire Emblem: give it a much more fitting number of actual playable characters for what the series is (which, sorry to say as a FE fan, but regardless of its relatively recent success, it's still nowhere near a top 3 series in terms of importance, and it's understandable that people get upset when it gets forcefully treated like it is) like... 5 characters (still more than what series like Kirby have btw) or so, and then represent the big emphasis on characters the series has via the Assist Trophy items, without taking as many resources and giving the chance to less-represented franchises to get a character.

Also the reasoning for Awakening getting represented is solid, but... how does that translate into "it NEEDS three characters, not one or two but three"? Of course it earned a spot in the roster, Robin should 100% be here to stay, but... three characters is just unnecessary. I'd even understand keeping Chrom, but... three...?

I think Nintendo simply wanting to attract a lot of attention to the series (which would not be surprising at all) is a much more likely explanation for its current amount of fighters than it's "rotating cast"

 

[pupNapoleon]

If by that, you mean a pass full of obscure/surprise characters, then sure, I'll bite. That said, if you're calling Banjo a troll pick, I don't really know what to say to you. (Because I am counting characters that are popular, but not exactly current like him and Geno under that umbrella as well.)

What I meant: you stated you actively liked the obscure, disliked the popular, and enjoyed the salt from Kazuya being a fighting game character.
Hence, trolling pass.

... idk about that one. Cloud had pretty heavy support.

also, unrelated to the quote, but I feel there’s a difference between assessing each character and being personally uninterested/disappointed (a respectable opinion), and acting like buying the FP is an actual moral dilemma and Nintendo not picking highly speculated characters is somehow ethically wrong (a less respectable opinion)

Cloud would have been a great ballot pick.
But we got Bayonetta.

Because Fire Emblem has a rotating cast-that's why we only get protagonists, because they are the face of each and every game. And the reason Awakening gets more than one character is because it virtually saved the Fire Emblem franchise. Someone like Donkey Kong-while I would love to have Funky Kong, Dixie Kong, or others, we have all we need-a main protagonist, a side protagonist, and a main antagonist. Now, I know what you're thinking-"but what about Final Fantasy, that has a rotating cast!"-and I wholeheartedly agree. But third party franchises are much more complicated to get into Smash. I reccomend watching this video, it explains what I'm trying to convey better than I could.

That's actually not what I'm thinking.
I'm thinking:
- Donkey Kong has three primary characters, from a series that founded Nintendo, and has top 10 sales. That it makes more sense to include three constant characters from a popular series, than 8 characters who make one appearance from a moderate series. That all of those three characters are more recognizable to the masses than any Fire Emblem character. That they are more unique individually than half the roster of Fire Emblem.

We can get into this more, but their is really no point. I've long ago put to rest that there just isn't a logical reason that Fire Emblem gets as much support as it does, because any avenue you come from- it is simply favortism. Nothing wrong with this, but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend anything else has merit. Let's call it what it is, so that we can move on.

That’s your personal experience then. I’m looking at the overall reception and know people that loved the reveal of Chrom, Roy and even Lucina at their initial reveals but immediately hated any FE character that wasn’t a M4rth(I like that lol)tm; besides maybe Robin. You can argue that it wasn’t for that reason but it’s still fact.

Chill, dude. Yes, it is my experience, which is what I started off with saying. Just as it is your experience that you seem to have experienced the opposite. But throwing out the word fact, in a conversation that has thus far been about opinion (and doesn't even clarify any individual phrase as a fact), is absolutely useless.

The Funky Kong, Waluigi, and Dixie are just etc, etc, etc, etc, examples. Nothing more. I do think OUR picks would've been so much more well received overall if I do say so myself. Unless I say the words "Steve is not important" I'm not implying that either. Steve is just my could've been a Mii costume and Sakurai would've been just as glorified for it as he was for working his ass off and making him fully playable, which in turn would save development time for any of the picks that I listed instead.

Steve is def important, BUT if a character can be made into something LESS significant with almost the same payoff.. I see no reason why Sakurai chose the hard way on that one.. Doesn't really know how to pick his battles me thinks. Thank you for your constructive feedback.

That all makes complete sense...
But it doesn't dissuade the fact that just because the ballot hasn't been full of our favorite characters, that they aren't favorites of many others.

Okay, expanding on this a bit; how would you feel if this was the entire Smash roster?

Spoiler: 64

Starters

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Unlockables

• (Stage fought: Peach's Castle)
  • Complete 1P Game as any character
  • Complete Board the Platforms with
  • 25 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Dream Land)
  • Complete 1P Game with 3+ lives and no continues
  • 50 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Planet Zebes)
  • Complete 1P Game within 20 minutes without continues
  • 75 Vs. Matches
• (Meowth) (Stage fought: Saffron City)
  • Complete Target Test and Board the Platforms as all starters
  • Complete 1P Game as all starters
  • 100 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Melee

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. /
15. (Scizor)

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Mushroom Kingdom II)
   • Complete Stage 1 of Adventure Mode with the time ending in a ":X2" in the second's slot, then defeat in less than a minute and clear the rest of the mode
   • 10 Vs. Matches on Mushroom Kingdom
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • Complete Event Match #37
   • Summon 100 Poke Ball Pokémon
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. Ayumi Tachibana (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Unlock 100 different Trophies
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Battlefield)
   • Clear 100-Man Melee
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Fountain of Dreams)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all starters without continuing
   • Play Vs. Matches at least once with all 15 starters
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: Great Bay)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode with 20 characters
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Event Match #29
   • Clear Adventure Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Final Destination)
   • Play for a total of 15 hours
   • Summon a Legendary Pokémon 75 times
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as on Hard+ without continuing
   • Clear every bonus game in Classic Mode as
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Flat Zone)
    • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all other characters
    • Clear Target Test as all other characters
    • Clear 50 Event Matches
    • 1000 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Brawl

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. /
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Luigi's Mansion)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode with no continues
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic mode on Normal+ within 12 minutes
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: )
   • After beating SSE, head to the Ruined Zoo and run away from the Pig King Statue without losing a life; you'll fight Meowth instead of Porky, and winning ends the level there
   • Clear 20 Event Matches
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Corneria)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear 100-Man Brawl
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode on Normal+ as any character
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Path to the Ruins without losing a life; you'll fight Mewtwo instead of Wario
   • Clear Boss Battles on Hard+
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Temple)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Wilds I without losing a life; you'll fight Roy instead of Galleom
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Clear Target Smash with 20+ characters
    • 1000 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: )
    • Defeat Tabuu in SSE
    • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
    • Play 10 hours of Vs. Matches
    • 1100 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Complete Target Smash on all difficulties with any character
    • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Brawl
    • 1200 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: Mario Bros.)
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Collect 200 different Trophies
    • 1300 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the Lake; you'll fight Toon Link instead of Rayquaza, and winning ends the level there
    • Clear Classic Mode as without continuing
    • 1400 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Glacier without losing a life; you'll fight Wolf instead of Meta Knight/Lucario
    • Clear Boss Battles on any difficulty
    • 1500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (Base)

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 
23. 
24. Snivy
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. 
29. 
    • 
    • 
    • 
30. 
31. 
32. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Magicant / Onett)
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • Clear Classic Mode on 2.0+
   • 10 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Defeat 100 enemies in Smash Run (3DS only)
   • Collect at least 50 different pieces of equippment
   • 20 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Summon a Poké Ball Pokémon 100 times
   • Summon a Master Ball Pokémon 50 times
   • 30 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Corneria / Orbital Gate Assault)
   • Clear 100-Man Smash
   • 40 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Gerudo Valley / Skyloft)
   • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
   • 50 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
   • 60 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Dream Land GB/ )
   • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Smash
   • 70 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Brinstar / Pyrosphere)
   • Get 30 KO's with Samus's Final Smash
   • Defeat Ridley on the Pyrosphere stage (Wii U only)
   • 80 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Hyrule Temple)
   • Get 30 combined KO's with 's and 's Final Smashes
   • Outlast to up to 300% damage
   • 90 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Golden Plains / Mario Galaxy)
    • Get a successful recovery as 5 times
    • 100 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and Snivy on 6.0+
    • Clear a Final Battle in Smash Run without taking damage
    • 125 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: Reset Bomb Forest / Palutena's Temple)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and on 5.5+
    • 150 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: PAC-MAZE / PAC-LAND)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Eat 50 Ghosts on PAC-MAZE (3DS only)
    • 200 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: Arena Ferox / Coliseum)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • 300 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: 3D Land / Delfino Plaza)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • 400 Vs. Matches
16. (Stage fought: Duck Hunt)
    • Clear Target Blast as all other characters
    • Clear Classic Mode as all other characters on 6.0+
    • Unlock every Masterpiece (Wii U only)
    • 500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (DLC)

DLC Pack 1

1. 
2. Ayumi Tachibana
   • Stage: Fourside

DLC Pack 2

1. 
   • Stage: Suzaku Castle
2. 
   • Stage: New Pork City (Wii U only)

DLC Pack 3

1. 
   • Stage: Midgar
2. 

DLC Pack 4

1. (Azura)
   • Stage: Opera House (3DS only)
2. 
   • Stage Umbra Clock Tower

Spoiler: Ultimate (Base)

64

• 1.
• 2.
• 3.
• 4.
  • 4ε.
• 5.
• 6.
• 7.
• 8.
• 9.
• 10.
• 11.
• 12.

Melee

• 13.
  • 13ε.
• 14.
• 15.
• 16.
• 17.
• 18.
• 19. Ayumi Tachibana
• 20.
• 21.
• 22.
• 23.
• 24.
• 25.
• 26.

Brawl

• 27.
• 28.
  • 28ε.
• 29.
• 30.
• 31.
• 32.
  • 32ε.
• 33.
• 34.
• 35.
• 36.
  • 36ε. Shadow
• 37.
• 38.
  • 38ε. (Alph)
• 39.
• 40.
• 41.
• 42.

Smash 4

• 43. Snivy
• 44.
• 45.
• 46.
• 47.
• 48.
• 49.
• 
  • 50.
  • 51.
  • 52.
• 53.
• 54.
• 55.
• 56.
• 57.
• 58.
• 59.
  • 59ε. (Echo)
• 60.
• 61.
• 62.

Newcomers

• 63.
• 64.
  • 64ε.
• 65. Crash Bandicoot
• 66.
• 67.
• 68.
• 69.
• 70. Bandana Waddle Dee

Spoiler: Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. Crash
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. Bandana Waddle Dee
21. 

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 1

• 71. Sakura Shinguji
  • Stage: Grand Imperial Theater
• 72.
  • Stage: Yggdrasil's Altar
• 73.
  • Stage: Spiral Mountain
• 74.
  • Stage: King of Fighters Stadium
• 75. Sora
  • Stage: Station of Awakening

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 2

• 76.
  • Stage: Ramen Bowl
• 77. Sir Arthur
  • Stage: Demon Village
• 78.
  • Stage: Northern Cave
• 79-80. /Mythra
  • Stage: Cloud Sea of Alrest
• 81. Kazuya Mishima
  • Stage: Mishima Dojo
• 82. Dr. Eggman
  • Stage: Studiopolis Zone

You went through a lot of work, just to say that before Smash Ultimate, you would switch around Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and add Ayumi.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Chill, dude. Yes, it is my experience, which is what I started off with saying. Just as it is your experience that you seem to have experienced the opposite. But throwing out the word fact, in a conversation that has thus far been about opinion (and doesn't even clarify any individual phrase as a fact), is absolutely useless.

Let me clarify then. The fact of the matter is M4rth characters have been received well on their initial reveals while FE characters besides them get an incredible amount of backlash. Now, when I made the initial comment it was out of amusement, that that is the trend, really which I should have opened with in my reply to you instead of trying and failing to be snarky in my last post.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Let me clarify then. The fact of the matter is M4rth characters have been received well on their initial reveals while FE characters besides them get an incredible amount of backlash. Now, when I made the initial comment it was out of amusement, that that is the trend, really which I should have opened with in my reply to you instead of trying and failing to be snarky in my last post.

I'm not being snarky- I'm pointing out the irony/hypocrisy of stating my opinion is an opinion, and yours as fact.
To my recollection- my experiences, as you clarified- the M4rth's were not received well.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I'm not being snarky- I'm pointing out the irony of stating my opinion as an opinion, and yours as fact.
To my recollection- my experiences, as you clarified- the M4rth's were not received well.

That’s fine. As stated in one of previous responses responses it was the overall reception at initial reveal was what I was calling out which was mostly positive with each member of team M4rth.

Really? I remember people being happy at Chroms inclusion if not on the neutral side. While Roy was mostly positive. Lucina had an okay that’s cool kind of reaction. I didn’t see hate come up for them until they were in the game for a while. But if you say you didn’t see that and you always saw the opposite on quite a significant number during their initial reveals I’ll retract my use of the word fact when it comes to our conversation.

 

[Lenidem]

Is it underwhelming? I don't know.

Am I underwhelmed? Yes.

Here is why.

In any kind of crossover, what's important to me is to see the characters I know and love. And at my core, I am a Nintendo fan - an old one. Before SSB64 was released in Europe, I was ungrily reading anything I could find related to it in the magazines, cause there where no Internet back then, and before I touched it, I was obsessed by it: Mario, Link, Yoshi, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Luigi in the same game?! Fighting?! It was a dream. I didn't know the other characters, but I assumed they had to be great since they were apparently on par with those icons. Pokémon was still this wierd japanese stuff we were not too sure about, except that it was seemingly huge. So the moveset is clearly secondary to me: what matters most is who the character is, what good memories does he bring back.

Now lets look at the DLC.

Piranha Plant is still, for me, the worst idea ever implemented in Smash (except maybe tripping, but I never had Brawl). That's a character I know, sure. But it would have been accurently represented by a stage hazard or a trophy - like several Mario mooks already are. Instead, we could have had... someone else. Someone from a new franchise, or an important and beloved character from a franchise poorly represented. Yes, Sakurai had very specific criteria for this "spot" (not a hero, stuff like that), but those criteria are exactly what I disagree with. So after that, I assumed the team was going to make choices that wouldn't appeal to me, and I luckily didn't buy the pass.

Joker : I had never heard about Personna, so I have no connexion to him. That doesn't mean I think it was a bad choice: that means I have no opinion on him and thus don't want to play as him.

Hero : I had heard about Dragon Quest, of course, but I have never played any of the games, so I have no connexion to him and am not willing to play as him.

Banjo & Kazooie : the only character I was delighted to see, and the only one I am planning to buy so far. Banjo-Kazooie was huge back in the N64 days, which I still see as my "console of heart".

Terry : I had heard about his serie(s), but never played it. So I have no connexion to him and am not willing to play as him.

Byleth : Come on! Another FE?! Yeah, yeah, rotating cast, blablabla. But why does every single Smash iteration must have at least one FE newcomer? Because their last game was a big deal? Yeah? Breath of the Wild was also a big deal, and all it got was one stage, and a few alterations to Link! Again, this slot could have been used for a new franchise, like Golden Sun or Rayman, or from an important and beloved character from a franchise poorly represented. The only choice of the first pass that I consider inherently bad, where the others (except for Banjo) where just "not for me".

Min-Min : Never played ARMS, so I don't care.

Steve/Alex : Never played Minecraft, but of course I know it's a very big deal.

Sephiroth : Never played FFVII (it's on my lis), so I don't care.

Pyra/Mythra : Never played Xenoblade Chronicles (it's also on my list), so I don't care.

Kazuya : Never played Tekken, so I don't care.

Maybe I'm just hard to please. But at the same time, I think characters like Isaac, Captain Toad, Skull Kid, Waluigi or Dixie Kong would totally fit and shouldn't be regarded as wierd, original choices. If we look at the third parties, it's the same with Rayman, Bomberman, Eggman or Tails. Actually, those characters not being in is what seems odd to me. Wich doesn't mean that the newcomers of the pass don't deserve to be Smashers... but I don't know. It's not for me.