Anyone else + Ultimate's DLC = underwhelming?

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Huh. I'm glad Tekken finally got in, as it showed they were able to transfer the feel of the series over. I actually would've preferred Heihachi.

Not disappointed, honestly, overall. I mean, it's not Agumon or the Bamco series I outright wanted, but I expected exactly one character today so speculation lasts till most of the year. And I got that. So... in a strange way I'm happy things aren't over yet~

 

[volbound1700]

...Huh. I'm glad Tekken finally got in, as it showed they were able to transfer the feel of the series over. I actually would've preferred Heihachi.

Not disappointed, honestly, overall. I mean, it's not Agumon or the Bamco series I outright wanted, but I expected exactly one character today so speculation lasts till most of the year. And I got that. So... in a strange way I'm happy things aren't over yet~

I am the opposite, I would rather just get answers and have it over.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm kinda sad because this was the E3 where Crash would be perfect...but I'm not gonna hold it against Kazuya he'd probably kill me anyways.. I'm not giving up hope til the end; we only have one slot left.

 

[volbound1700]

I'm kinda sad because this was the E3 where Crash would be perfect...but I'm not gonna hold it against Kazuya he'd probably kill me anyways.. I'm not giving up hope til the end; we only have one slot left.

Crash, Rayman, Masterchief, Ryu Hayabusa, etc. are not coming unless we get a better pass. The good news is that Sakurai might be gone with the next Smash and we could have a fresh breath of air who might be more favorable towards the big NAMES that Western Smash fans want.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I am the opposite, I would rather just get answers and have it over.

Then we would've known all the DLC from the start(well, pass-wise). It was going to be all at once or spread out.

Honestly, they spread both Passes out pretty evenly in the amount of time given. I was already convinced last year would've had one reveal at E3 if it happened. It looks like I hit it well on the head.

 

[volbound1700]

Then we would've known all the DLC from the start(well, pass-wise). It was going to be all at once or spread out.

Honestly, they spread both Passes out pretty evenly in the amount of time given. I was already convinced last year would've had one reveal at E3 if it happened. It looks like I hit it well on the head.

I would have loved that. Removes the toxic leaks and disappointment about wanted characters not making it.

 

[Blackwolf666]

My opinions
- I remember a while back someone posted a png of Waluigi with a Piranha Plant in his hand saying this was the character they wanted. I made a snarky remark that Sakurai would definitely ad in Piranha Plant... a time later that became reality. Found it so hilarious that I could never dislike plant's inclusion
- No Complaints. Perfect surprise 3rd party character from an excellent series
- I'm still surprised by how much hate the western audience gave this. It really opened my eyes on how many people today dislike jrpgs and the "anime aesthetic". I loved this reveal; been a DQ fan since DQ8.
- My most wanted character... though a bit underwhelmed by his move set especially compared to everybody else in pass 1
- A character and franchise I only knew in passing. Wasn't my thing but other people loved him.
- Since Three Houses is my 2nd most played Switch game behind Ultimate... got no problem. Sure its another FE character but the moveset differences give them variety compared to all the other FE characters already included. I don't get the mob mentality where they welcome Marth Clones with open arms but when a FE character does something different they want to burn them at the stake.
- A fine choice (even though I dont like ARMS or playing this particular character)... I think that each smash game should be able to represent its generation of Nintendo. I was underwhelmed by the base newcomers not including more current generation Nintendo characters ( I loved the Nintendo characters they included dont get me wrong.)
- Not my thing and has become the character I hate fighting the most... Never played Minecraft more than an hour either so doesn't hold any place in my heart. Only character I'd find smash more enjoyable if they were never included. Still, glad someone enjoys him.
-The fact that the One Winged Angel track is in the game is enough reason for me to love this. Also a nice balanced character, despite how much his neutral B screwed me over especially online where dropped inputs and lag exist.
- Honestly, my most played character in the DLC pack. Rex and Pyra were my most wanted character to represent current Nintendo and were afraid they'd be left behind like Elma. XC2, Splatoon 2 and BotW were my triforce of switch games that gave me entertainment on my switch while I waited for Smash Ultimate to come out.

Overall- I found this incredibly enjoyable.

Kazuya- I respect his inclusion... not gonna lie though would have preferred Jin or Heihachi over Kazuya, but still a good pick to represent Tekken. May update after I've had a chance to play him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would have loved that. Removes the toxic leaks and disappointment about wanted characters not making it.

No, I get that.

But the fact it wasn't from the start meant it was blatantly going to stay spread out. That's just how it is. I'm not saying it's a "good" thing by default(I think it's better for Speculation, but eh).

 

[volbound1700]

No, I get that.

But the fact it wasn't from the start meant it was blatantly going to stay spread out. That's just how it is. I'm not saying it's a "good" thing by default(I think it's better for Speculation, but eh).

I definitely agree, it was just my preference.

Had there been more Smash fan requests in the DLC pack, sure the speculation would be fun. However, it is like "Rayman is coming" only to see him passed up every time.

Someone jokingly referenced a Smashboards theory in that every character added since Steve had less than 10 pages of posts about the character or no threads at all. It is hype if you get big fan requests like Banjo but not really hype if you do not get fan requests. The lack of big fan requests has created toxic speculation about the DLC. DLC really isn't that great for most Smash fans (sure you can justify nearly every pick but most of them were not highly requested). It is fun to hype if you get stuff that people want, not so much if you don't.

 

[Perkilator]

Out of curiousity, how would you feel if Ultimate's DLC went like this?

Bonus Fighter: Bandana Waddle Dee

Vol. 1:

1. Sakura Shinguji
2. 
3. 
4. /Mythra
5. 

Vol. 2:

1. 
2. Crash Bandicoot
3. Sephiroth
4. Kazuya
5. Dr. Eggman
6. Sora

 

[CosmicQuark]

I thought FP1 was perfectly done, even if most of the characters were ones I personally didn't want. I got my dream character (Banjo & Kazooie), a character from a series I wanted in Smash (Persona). Hero, while not for me, is incredibly iconic and it's great having 4 characters in one moveset. While I'm tired of Fire Emblem, they didn't get a unique character in the base game, so Byleth makes sense for a first party character (unlike a Pokemon). And Terry is unique in not being expected, not being insanely popular, but is still iconic in its own circles and represents SNK in general.

FP2, however, has been a complete mess. 2, likely 3, first party characters, which aren't surprising and are boring at this point. 2 secondary characters, villains, and one got in over the protagonist for no clear reason (thought the issue with Heihachi was not being able to incorporate Tekken, but Sakurai seems to know how apparently), and while Minecraft is the highest selling game, it's better as a stage, not a character. Only plus side of FP2 was Pyra/Mythra bringing back the changing characters archetype. Can't completely say I'm underwhelmed, because I did get Joker and Banjo & Kazooie--but it's definitely making me rethink how I should have just gotten them, rather than getting both passes to be a completionist.

Perkilator , I would definitely take that for Crash, Eggman and Sora, even if it meant replacing Joker--but would prefer Joker as well.

 

[Inferno7]

Since we just got the last fighter, I'll share my thoughts about each one of the DLCs:

-Piranha Plant: Extremely fun wildcard addition, never knew I wanted it before I got it. 6.5/10

-Joker: has nice aesthetic & design, stage and music are also dope but he kinda feels like a poor man's Dante for me, don't ask me why lol.
Overall average inclusion, 5.5/10 leaning towards 6/10

-Hero: 4/10. I admittedly gave a rat's ass about DQ before his inclusion, but he ended up being real fun to play. That's all I can say about him though, since his stage and music selection are kinda mediocre.

-Banjo: 3.5/10. At first I was happy to see other people getting their MW at long last, but with time this character has aged kinda badly for me. Not bad or anything, just a super average inclusion and not one I was actively clamoring for.

-Terry: 6/10, great inclusion. Is sorta niche but he brings so much personality to the roster and is so much fun to play, dope moveset in general.

-Byleth: 2/10, maybe a 2.5 if I'm being generous . Honestly didn't feel like a worthwile or necessary inclusion and it has aged badly as a DLC character, since it could've been anyone else. Unhype pick all things considered but at least they are fun to play and brought good music (even if it's mostly just remixes from the same song).

-Min Min: meh, 1.5/10 for me. Not bad, I'm glad ARMS got representation at all but honestly was by far the least hyped I've been for a Smash character. Feels too much like a base game character as well and not that much fun to play as.

-Steve: 8/10, great choice from a good and overall popular/iconic game. Honestly didn't want him at first out of fear that he wouldn't be done justice, but I'm more than satisfied with what we got. Alts are also cool.

-Sephiroth: 10/10. First pick that has made me legitimately lose my **** in a good while, was one of my MWs as well and I thought him to be impossible so I'm really happy he's in to this day. Oof, what can I say? Badass character, fun to play, cool powers & design, kickass sword and main theme, very good looking stage, etc. Really what every DLC character should aim or strive to be, this has been my favorite addition in Smash by far.

-Pyra/Mythra: Never played XC2 (although I kinda want to but lack of money and stock said no, lol), but the characters themselves fit my playstyle to perfection and are a nice replacement to Zero (one of my MWs), purely from a gameplay perspective. I just like flashy sword playstyles and sci-fi designs.
They deserve a 8.5/10 tbh, also Mythra bae

-Kazuya: can't speak much for now but from what I've seen he's a really kickass character from a good franchise that deserved more, 7/10. Helps that we finally got a demon in Smash, too.

 

[Noler_Mass]

The lack of big fan requests has created toxic speculation about the DLC. DLC really isn't that great for most Smash fans (sure you can justify nearly every pick but most of them were not highly requested). It is fun to hype if you get stuff that people want, not so much if you don't.

Like you aren’t completely wrong, but there’s a big rift between the characters the smash speculation community wants (which is in itself pretty niche, even compared to smash fans as a whole) and characters that people will actually end up playing. Most popular speculation characters would end up like banjo.

 

[volbound1700]

Like you aren’t completely wrong, but there’s a big rift between the characters the smash speculation community wants (which is in itself pretty niche, even compared to smash fans as a whole) and characters that people will actually end up playing. Most popular speculation characters would end up like banjo.

I wouldn't call characters like Ryu Hayabusa, Rayman, Crash, Masterchief, or Doomguy as niche. (Crash, Halo, and Rayman are all in top 25 all-time selling franchises globally. Not sure about Doom or Ninja Gaiden but both are pretty iconic). Even some of the first parties such as Dixie, Impa, and Waddle Dee are NOT niche. The only real niche characters that Smash fans are clamoring for, in mass, are Geno and some of the Indies.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I wouldn't call characters like Ryu Hayabusa, Rayman, Crash, Masterchief, or Doomguy as niche. (Crash, Halo, and Rayman are all in top 25 all-time selling franchises globally. Not sure about Doom or Ninja Gaiden but both are pretty iconic). Even some of the first parties such as Dixie, Impa, and Waddle Dee are NOT niche. The only real niche characters that Smash fans are clamoring for, in mass, are Geno and some of the Indies.

I didn’t say the characters were niche, I said the speculation community itself is niche. There are people who play smash and have hype that aren’t actively checking hype trains and speculation boards. These are the types who respond well to the Sephiroths and Kazuyas, characters with a ton of reach across the gaming community.

 

[volbound1700]

I didn’t say the characters were niche, I said the speculation community itself is niche. There are people who play smash and have hype that aren’t actively checking hype trains and speculation boards. These are the types who respond well to the Sephiroths and Kazuyas, characters with a ton of reach across the gaming community.

I will say, with the exception of Steve, you probably mentioned the two most popular IP in the pass. However, I think the key is who was missing. For example, is there any excuse for why Crash and/or Rayman are not in the pack? They are highly clamored for and both are very iconic Franchises. What about Ryu Hayabusa who is basically the last major NES character not in the game after Simon's inclusion. People parody his series regularly. Just check out the AVGN episode about Ninja Gaiden (actually there might be more than one).

Tekken's announcement today wasn't a bad one. Many people think we should have gotten Heihachi instead and I could see that but other than that comment, I definitely think Tekken deserved a spot. Seph probably should have been a base game character since FF7 was already represented in Smash but still his addition was HUGE. However, you take those two and Steve and/or Banjo out and you really don't have much in the pass that gets people hyped.

 

[Noler_Mass]

There’s always going to be someone missing.

 

[YoshiandToad]

On reflection I'm glad I didn't buy either fighters pass. Kazuya is the biggest indifference I've ever felt whilst watching a reveal.

Banjo and Byleth are the only two I'd willingly pay money for, and even then I've still not gotten either. If Plant wasn't free when I picked him up I might not have bothered either. Ultimate's been a massive disappointment for me when it's come to newcomers outside of maybe Inkling.

 

[volbound1700]

On reflection I'm glad I didn't buy either fighters pass. Kazuya is the biggest indifference I've ever felt whilst watching a reveal.

Banjo and Byleth are the only two I'd willingly pay money for, and even then I've still not gotten either. If Plant wasn't free when I picked him up I might not have bothered either. Ultimate's been a massive disappointment for me when it's come to newcomers outside of maybe Inkling.

The Base game had some great picks: Simon Belmont, King K Rool, Ridley among the top 3.

However, there was a lot of disappointment in the newcomers overall, I agree.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Kazuya is an amazing pick from a very successful fighting game. From what we could see, they adapted the moveset perfectly from Tekken to Smash. This was a solid pick that appealed to all audiences and also gave us an unique fighter that looks to have a fun-to-play playstyle. Regardless who is the last fighter, I’m not going to hold it again and Sakurai and his team for not including “popular picks”. I like Crash, Lloyd, Sora, and the rest of them but I have no qualms seeing Min-Min, Byleth, Terry, Seph, Steve or anyone else taking their place. There are countless factors that go into character negotiations and I would wager “popular pick characters” are low on the list; especially if they don’t prefer a fun playstyle as Sakurai once said. Sakurai doesn’t “owe” us these characters and expecting that is borderline childish. I get people get frustrated or demoralized when they don’t get a character they wanted and money was possibly spent to purchase a product that is, more or less, defunct. I hate to say it but that’s life and the more you learn to roll with what you got; it’s easier to progress forward.

 

[Arthur97]

Not sure it appealed to all audiences. If you don't like fighting games, what are the odds you care (at least positively)? Plus, fighting game fighters might be a bit...too accurate to their source games. It may have been unique with Ryu, but with our fourth now... He'll be unique, but I'm not a fan.


Plus, he may have had one of the most boring trailers for Ultimate. And they finally put Ganondorf in a trailer, to dunk on him. Maybe not as disrespectful as Sephiroth's...or maybe mroeso.

But, yes, what a state of affairs that so many Smash fans don't seem to actually want Nintendo content. Calling Pyra and Mythra shill picks seems especially odd as they are, what? Three or more years old at this point? Maybe for the series, but at this point it kind of deserved more. Were the Inklings shilling? Ridley? Fox? Samus? Captain Falcon?

 

[War Anvil]

: Piranha Plant was the nuttiest inclusion, bar none. I'm personally shocked that Sakurai and crew opened up with them as Ultimate's very first DLC. Their quirky and defensively oriented playstyle also helps, too! 9/10
: I haven't cared much for SMT or Persona, but Joker is REALLY stylish in terms of moves and personality. I only wish Arsene worked like a JoJo: Heritage for the Future clone instead of being a comeback transformation. You'll never see it COMIIIIIIIIIIING~ 6.5/10 and that's at worst!
: Sakurai/Square Enix/Bamco, you MONSTERS. Easily the best moveset ever across both Fighter's Passes! I feel like, at this point, the Hero Crew present some sort of lesson on the sway RNG (Even if balanced) can have on competitive battles. 10/10
: Banjo & Kazooie's moveset may be milquetoast by DLC standards, but the duo had much deserved hype surrounding them in addition to both Rare's fans and Smash players screaming for them to have a chance to join - I mean, for over a DECADE. In hindsight, thanks to Microsoft and Nintendo being really buddy-buddy behind the scenes, Banjo was always both tenuous and a sure shot in some way. 8/10
: AREYOUOKAY? BUSTAWOLF!!! POWAAAAAGEYSAHHHH! ROCKYOUPOWERDAHNKRISINGTACKLEGOODBYECRACKSHOOTKICKBACK H E R E ' S D A B I G O N E!
...Damn, damn, damn. Terry is really satisfying in general~ 8.5/10
: Both Byleths are hot, but I guess we're all physically incapable of being truly attached to them in Smash. At least their toolkit offers even more than Corrin, excellent music notwithstanding. 5.5 and an Aymr to the FACE!/10
: [SHE]. Even if the novelty of an ARMS fighter sneaking into Smash has worn off, just--[SHE]. Pro tip: always give the Ramram or Megawatt a chance, but leave the alternate Dragon ARM alone. It's just not worth it. Spring Man next game, anyone? 7.5/10
: He's just mining there...MENACINGLY!!! 9.5/10 in hindsight
: I'm not too attached to Final Fantasy myself yet; besides, a new Sonic rep was what we deserved more than anything. Nonetheless, at least Square is giving more than the bare minimum a shot this game, as Sephiroth showing up to torment the rest of the lineup proves! 6.5/10, once more with feeling
: Mythra seems much better alone than Pyra, but put the two together at least once per battle? YIKES. And before you ask, I'll never count the Aegis girls as a shill pick anyway, so get over it. 8/10
And Kazuya Mishima? Ehh...I can't tell right now. We need to let him release first.

Banjo and then Terry were my favorite in terms of hype, but once the dust settles, either Hero or Shantae (As long as she's playable) will be my favorite gameplay experience by a country mile. It frankly helps how I'm back into Dragon Ball/Z, who was created by resident Dragon Quest guy Akira Toriyama before DQ was even a gleam in his eye.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

People who are frustrated about Crash not being revealed yet have to keep in mind that he belongs to Activision, and that's a company that has become quite notorious for its microtransaction practices; just look at what the company did to CTR: Nitro-Fueled, and you'll get what I mean.

Anyway, in regards to Kazuya, he most likely made the cut for being a more notable Tekken representative; he debuted as a hero, but would become a villain in the sequels (something that you don't see too often from video game protagonists). Another reason why Kazuya made the cut over Heihachi was likely to respect the wishes of Heihachi's last voice actor.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Yeah no, you're not alone there. I, personally, am feeling very validated in my decision to not buy either of the Fighter Passes, and not just because I don't play Smash anymore. I'm probably in the minority where so-called "internet-breaking" picks like Steve and Sephiroth do very little for me, but when a more niche/unexpected pick like Banjo or Pyra/Mythra shows up, I am ALL OVER that ****. Considering this DLC has been almost nothing but the former and seen very little of the latter, I'm left feeling underwhelmed overall. I gotta say, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of how every new character HAS to be a big-name third-party guy these days, to the point that I honestly really want Nintendo to pull something crazy like Funky Kong or something for the last character just to throw everyone for a big ol' loop.

(Though I will say, watching from afar as the Smash community breaks out in hives over another fighting game character being added to the game has been pretty damn amusing.)

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

Ultimate's DLC is leagues better for me. Smash 4 was a dumpster fire imo. Ultimate has characters that I actually want to play.

 

[Shroob]

Sometimes I feel like I'm really lucky in that I don't really give a hoot about the concept of Most Wanteds, to me, a DLC character is more content to play with, to heck if it's not someone I care about.


I just look at Ultimate's base game+Newcomer selection and like

I'm sorry, but this is just a good selection. As good as Brawl's? No, not a chance, but this character lineup blows Smash 4 out of the water easily.

 

[MooMew64]

Sometimes I feel like I'm really lucky in that I don't really give a hoot about the concept of Most Wanteds, to me, a DLC character is more content to play with, to heck if it's not someone I care about.


I just look at Ultimate's base game+Newcomer selection and like

View attachment 319607



I'm sorry, but this is just a good selection. As good as Brawl's? No, not a chance, but this character lineup blows Smash 4 out of the water easily.

Real talk, Inklings, Ridley, K. Rool, DS, and Isabelle were all already most wanted characters, and then DLC gave me Hero, Byleth, Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, and won me over on Pyra and Mythra after intially feeling meh on 'em.

Brawl's is almost impossible to top because it gave us huge Nintendo characters who felt like huge omissions from Melee like , and introduced the concept of guest fighters with and heckin' . However, yeahh, that doesn't diminish Ultimate at all: This roster is insane and has something for almost everyone. I honestly can't wait to see how we finish, regardless of who it is.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

Banjo, Min-Min and Pyra/Mythra were the only reps I bought from the DLC. Then again, I'm not a fan of non-Nintendo reps in Smash (I know, sacrilege, but I just feel Smash should be Nintendo-focused).

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

I despise that Kazuya is in smash. Not because of His character, but because he already seems to have a bunch of annoying gimmicks which are almost universally hated. Auto turn around? Has it. Special move canceling? Almost certainly has it. Comeback mechanic? Has it. Obnoxious cutscene combos? Has it. I genuinely would rather have one less fighter than another fighting game rep. He also probably has input commands which sucks. Easily my most hated DLC character and him alone just killed my hype for the last fighter. Most disappointing reveal in the game for me.

 

[UserKev]

Everyone lumping Ultimate's DLC with the base roster, Ultimate would obviously dunk on Smash 4's roster if you do full comparison. But the newest Smash currently being (Ultimate) saves it. Its whole dilemma is to try to include "Everything" And K Rool and Ridley were almost non additions if it wasn't decade sheer unrelenting fan demand. But if you really want to go full comparison, Shulk, Bowser Jr./Koopalings, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Rosalina all do an incredible job while Inkling, newest based roster Fire Emblem additions are the new kids on the block. Daisy is a fun pick and Dark Samus could have been better.

Don't s** on Smash 4's based roster. It does a fairly good job once you start to think about it.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Rosalina all do an incredible job

Nah, she never deserved to be in Smash tbh. The only reason she got in Smash 4 was because Nintendo was heavily pushing her back in the mid-2010's, which made her inclusion feel really boring and uninteresting.
I agree that Ultimate's base roster newcomers aren't as good as 4's, but this is a thread about DLC so I find that irrelevant.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Remember how a vast, vast majority of Smash players said they were satisfied with the Ultimate after all the veterans/Inkling/Ridley/K.Rool/Banjo were already confirmed, and that anyone they added afterwards was just gravy?

This is the gravy.

There's no need to really impress anyone when the bulk of Ultimate's sales were already made in December 2018, and it's not like there's really anyone who absolutely has to be in Smash that's still missing. It could've had no second Fighters Pass at all, and still be widely considered a massive success by most metrics.

 

[Shroob]

Everyone lumping Ultimate's DLC with the base roster, Ultimate would obviously dunk on Smash 4's roster if you do full comparison. But the newest Smash currently being (Ultimate) saves it. Its whole dilemma is to try to include "Everything" And K Rool and Ridley were almost non additions if it wasn't decade sheer unrelenting fan demand. But if you really want to go full comparison, Shulk, Bowser Jr./Koopalings, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Rosalina all do an incredible job while Inkling, newest based roster Fire Emblem additions are the new kids on the block. Daisy is a fun pick and Dark Samus could have been better.

Don't s** on Smash 4's based roster. It does a fairly good job once you start to think about it.

I don't find Smash 4's roster bad, in fact, I don't find any Smash Roster bad, but if you held me at gunpoint and asked me which Smash game had the weakest base game reveals, it'd be 4, hands down. That isn't to say that they're bad reveals, but Smash 4 always felt like "We need to modernize the roster and patch holes where we can."

Whereas every game prior felt like it was adding on more and more missing piece to a bigger puzzle. Smash 4 does that to a degree, Villager, Mac, Pac and Mega Man are huge gets, but it just felt weaker as a whole. Then Ultimate comes along and drops Ridley and K.Rool and yeah, it's almost not even fair.


And the DLC for 4? Yeah, that was weak. Almost half of the characters added were veterans, which were great to have at the time, 3 were big gets, and 1 was a promotional rep. Maybe it's simply because "there's more" for Ultimate's DLC, but it's really hard to say Ultimate's DLC is worse than Smash 4's... in fact, I'd say it puts Smash 4's to shame. Smash 4's isn't bad, Ryu, Cloud and Bayo are great, but Ult just expands Smash to be this insane crossover event that was frankly unfathomable not even a decade ago.



Now of course, this is all an entirely subjective opinion. If you think there's no "Magic" to the DLC, you're perfectly entitled to that opinion, but I enjoy seeing Smash grow as a series and have even more worlds open up to it. I don't know a thing about Tekken, but I'm really happy Kazuya's here, and truth be told, I could say that about a handful of the DLC characters. I don't know them, but glad they're here.


But in the end, I guess I'm just really lucky that I don't care about things like "Most Wanteds". To me, new content is new content, and I'll take whoever it is, be it huge 3rd party or small 1st party, I really don't mind, it's just more to play with for me. Give me Bubsy, and I'd be fine with it, that's how little I care about who gets in.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Other than Banjo, I find the Fighter pass currently unbearably tiring. And even still, I was never actually hyped for Banjo, but at least I know the character and has for a long time. Smash 4's DLC was done by far better. Ultimate's DLC, the characters for most are too recent and some feel like shill picks. There's no real magic.

That is actually funny... I despised what they did in SSB4.
Four veterans; two MORE characters from Fire Emblem, a lie of a ballot pick.
It was handled almost as poorly as my imagination can conceive.

I did enjoy Mewtwo, Ryu, Cloud, but otherwise? It was perhaps the worst DLC list for a fighting game that I have seen.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

DLC is fine to me. Don’t have many complaints. Byleth was stupid but everything else made sense.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The ergo decedo argument doesn't really hold up given Nintendo are using a predatory seasons' pass system.

How is it predatory?
The only way I can perceive this is that you have the option to buy ahead of time, without knowing the characters.
Considering Smash reveals are a huge part of what Smash is, I don't think there is a possibility that newcomers could all be announced ahead of time- it is logistically a failed move.

If you don't know if you want to buy it, then hold off buying it until all are revealed.

Overall I think all of the choices were warranted to some degree-even the ones I loathe. Min Min comes from a new fighting game first party IP, Byleth from the most successful game in the FE series, and Pythra giving a second (and third) rep to a series that deserves it. Thing is that each of these reveals were ruined for me and many others, for one reason or another. (Min Min because it was already spoiled like months in advance by Nintendo not to mention she's the most hated character in the game due to her playstyle, Byleth because of the sheer amount of FE reps including ones that really aren't so necessary, and Pythra for the terrible reveal trailer). The other characters were all great inclusions though.

I love that Fire Emblem's top selling game needs a character, because it is Fire Emblem. No other series seems to be treated this way. Even Three Houses, the best selling game, was under 3million physical copies by March 2020. I don't see how this warrants it's character. Pokemon, Donkey Kong...

Sakurai's comments about the fighters passes were in passing and only in that one direct - the warning was likely given less screen time than even Wii Fit's eyes and would be easy to forget or get drowned out by hype for a sugar-rushed Nintendo fan who just saw "5 newcomers!". If Nintendo (not Sakurai, Nintendo) didn't intend the fighters' passes as a way of pushing new IPs and tricking people into buying more than they want, the warning would've been much more major in the marketing. FP2's eShop description does not have a disclaimer for example.

I'm still confused... you see that there are five characters. There is no way to know, when purchasing, what you are getting. They are literal question marks. How could anyone believe they know exactly what they are getting?

Not only referring to third party tho. In my opinion, Crash or Sora would absolutely redeem Ultimate's Fighter pass, no debate. I'd be excited for Waluigi depending on the moveset. Rayman especially and Dragonborn feel absent, now that Steve is in.

I do agree, that the two things I would like most in the pass-
1- More cartoonish characters; this was something for which Nintendo was known, for such a long time. The only ones we have thus far gotten are Piranha and Banjo/Kazooie. I'd really appreciate getting at least one more- Crash, Rayman, Spyro, Red Bird (Angry Birds), Bomberman (sadness)...FROGGER.
2- Bigger series. I can understand when we get a character if they are from one of the highest selling franchises of all time, even if I don't like them, personally. Sora, Master Chief, Lara Croft, C.J, even Dr. Kawashima...

You don't get to have moral high ground when talking about capitalism if you're giving into it anyway. You made the choice to buy the fighters pass, and now you're complaining because it doesn't cater to your very specific tastes.

THIS. It's a pretty ridiculous, impossible, claim.

"Scrimblo Bimblo"

AHHHH I enjoy this phrase.

I never even implied I actually brought the passes, though I did do so, so your argument is valid in this case - however, I was 16 when the first fighters' pass rolled out, I've matured since then. This was pre-3D All-Stars and pre-Doug Bowser so Nintendo were way better at hiding their capitalistic evil and were much more trusted. Also, as I said, Sakurai said his comments about trusting that you'll like everyone in passing. There was 16 seconds of screentime given to the warning, immediately after the reveal of 5 new fighters (you know, something that will result in Smash fans or the streamers they watch screaming in banshees) and the wording has very vague - "Only those who are confident in its value" could mean anything - price, quality, so on.

This is the exact thing I'm trying to preach. I was an idiot 16 year old at the time and got scammed into a bad deal - publishers are taking advantage of said pubsecent idiocy to get people to buy content they don't want. You can't write off criticisms of corporations with "just use common sense", because a lot of people don't have common sense, especially in the audience for a megapopular, flashy and action-heavy E10+ rated video game that uses hype as a marketing tactic.

How is it at all a scheme? Seriously... I don't understand what it is you think they could do differently.
If you buy 5 characters blindly... you know you are buying them blindly.
Unless you are stating that
A- The characters should all be announced at once (which would be a bad move on Nintendo's part, given that they receive such publicity...and also, is not how newcomers have been announced as far back as Brawl, which I believe is the first time we ever knew the characters ahead of time)
B- The characters should be catered to you... as if your opinion matters more than others, or Sakurai would even know who you wanted.
C- You felt everyone wanted the same characters, and that you were somehow guaranteed specific characters. If this is the case... I don't see how you came to this conclusion, either.

...then I have no idea what you are attempting to communicate.

Yes, we get it, Capitalism bad, tell us something we don't know already.


Like, lowkey, we all know this, but complaining on it to a forum of like 50~people who all know this already isn't going to change anything, especially when said forum is more or less dedicated to the topic being discussed and has an obsession over it.

To be fair, s/he was just staying on topic, and has been quoted several times since.
Now, I really don't understand what they were trying to communicate, as seen in my multiple quotes above, but they were on topic, and didn't seem to be trying to lecture on capitalism.

I bought both passes simply for the sake of more fighters. I wasn't enthralled by every choice, but not a single one genuinely disappointed me so far.

Only character that would is a base game Assist Trophy.

Curious- why would an assist trophy character disappoint you?

None of the DLC characters did anything for me.

Knuckles has been #1 on my wish list since Brawl!

Other characters I would be happy with:

1. A Digimon Rep
2. Meowth
3. Crash
4. Spyro
5. Lara Croft
6. Rayman
7. Gex
8. Chargin Chuck
9. General Scales
10. Andy (Heart of Darkness)
11. Akuji the Heartless
12. Soul Reaves
13. Practically anyone from Threads of Fate
14. Altered Beast
15. Yoshimitsu (Maybe)
16. Thunder (Turok)
17. Riptor
18. Sub Zero (Maybe)
19. Kristal (Maybe)
20. Big Bertha (Super Mario Bros. Movie)
21. Manic the Hedgehog
22. Shadow the Hedgehog
23. Gondo (Skyward Sword)
24. The Avatar from Skate or Die
25. Aya Brea
26. Mitochondria Eve
27. Luis Sera
28. Albert Wesker
29. Jack Krauser
30. Tomball
31. Spike (Ape Escape)
32. Marina (infernium)
33. Blasto
34. Wex (Wild 9)

Just give me one from this list, Nintendo and I'm satisfied

I read your first six characters and thought you were in my mind (minus Knuckles- whom I'm incapable of perceiving as more sensible than Tails, the number 2 character, where Knuckles is 3...or Eggman).
Then you listed 30 more characters of which I've just about never heard.

 

[Shroob]

How is it predatory?
The only way I can perceive this is that you have the option to buy ahead of time, without knowing the characters.
Considering Smash reveals are a huge part of what Smash is, I don't think there is a possibility that newcomers could all be announced ahead of time- it is logistically a failed move.

If you don't know if you want to buy it, then hold off buying it until all are revealed.


I love that Fire Emblem's top selling game needs a character, because it is Fire Emblem. No other series seems to be treated this way. Even Three Houses, the best selling game, was under 3million physical copies by March 2020. I don't see how this warrants it's character. Pokemon, Donkey Kong...


I'm still confused... you see that there are five characters. There is no way to know, when purchasing, what you are getting. They are literal question marks. How could anyone believe they know exactly what they are getting?


I do agree, that the two things I would like most in the pass-
1- More cartoonish characters; this was something for which Nintendo was known, for such a long time. The only ones we have thus far gotten are Piranha and Banjo/Kazooie. I'd really appreciate getting at least one more- Crash, Rayman, Spyro, Red Bird (Angry Birds), Bomberman (sadness)...FROGGER.
2- Bigger series. I can understand when we get a character if they are from one of the highest selling franchises of all time, even if I don't like them, personally. Sora, Master Chief, Lara Croft, C.J, even Dr. Kawashima...


THIS. It's a pretty ridiculous, impossible, claim.


AHHHH I enjoy this phrase.



How is it at all a scheme? Seriously... I don't understand what it is you think they could do differently.
If you buy 5 characters blindly... you know you are buying them blindly.
Unless you are stating that
A- The characters should all be announced at once (which would be a bad move on Nintendo's part, given that they receive such publicity...and also, is not how newcomers have been announced as far back as Brawl, which I believe is the first time we ever knew the characters ahead of time)
B- The characters should be catered to you

...then I have no idea what you are attempting to communicate.


To be fair, s/he was just staying on topic, and has been quoted several times since.
Now, I really don't understand what they were trying to communicate, as seen in my multiple quotes above, but they were on topic, and didn't seem to be trying to lecture on capitalism.


Curious- why would an assist trophy character disappoint you?


I read your first six characters and thought you were in my mind (minus Knuckles- whom I'm incapable of perceiving as more sensible than Tails, the number 2 character, where Knuckles is 3...or Eggman).
Then you listed 30 more characters of which I've just about never heard.

I agree with you that their point doesn't make much sense. You're getting exactly what you paid for, that being 5/6 unknown characters. If you bought it and are unhappy with your purchase, you only have yourself to blame, because you could have bought the DLC separately.


Though, this discussion's like a week old now, and probably should be dropped in case it gets heated, IMO at least.

 

[pupNapoleon]

My problem is that we we don't have character that are of the K.Rool or Isabelle variety. Everyone is either SUPER MEGA THIRD PARTY or Shill First Party, we don't get characters that have become common talking points in the base game or earlier years like K.Rool because they are not relevant (K.Rool and Banjo got really lucky), or characters that have become Nintendo mainstays like Isabelle, this means the options are super limited. No Waluigi or Isaac or Toad because they are NPCs (Chrom notwithstanding) spirits are reserved for characters from recent Nintendo games so that they can get promoted, and third parties are becoming the talk of the town and their shock value has diminshed greatly. When i saw Mega Man in Smash 4, that was a ****ing event, it was amazing, now i see Steve in Smash and say..............................................oh yeah, i expected that to happen. Honestly only Banjo was the one i really enjoyed both as a reveal and a character (even if i feel his specials could have been better, Seriously Steve's up special should have been Banjo's)

Add Dixie and Meowth to this, and I 100 percent agree. However...

I mean i like Terry and Hero, but Terry feels like a better Ryu mechanic wise and Hero's playstyle is just terrible, literally the only sword-wielders i seem to have any fun with are Chrom, Roy, and the Kid Links, the rest feel really clunky and slow (or in Meta Knight's case, slippery) and i hate everything that Joker represents and wish he and Persona never came to Smash, but what can you do?. I guess Byleth is there, and while i do not like FE being Sakurai's spoiled child, i do think that it was better than Corrin in 4.

I don't understand this. I may be mostly referencing the post above you, though... the one that said the playstyles don't match, and that the mechanics work but somehow, also, don't work...

Min Min and Pythra are nice announcements, but i don't like how basically it meant that ATs are out of the table (while Sakurai never stated that, the fact that he chose to pass on two characters that were ATs rubs me the wrong way) and how they would rather just put secondary characters or Deuteragonists, and i don't care about either of them too much, they are more characters that i appreciate than those who i would go out of my way to play as

What AT did they pass up for Pythra?
Regardless- I am very forward in saying that Min Min IS the mascot of ARMS (I've made this argument since 2017, and honestly, to me, Sakurai confirmed this). The entire Mishima family are the main characters of Tekken (plus devil mechanic, and the passing of Heihachi's Voice Actor, create extenuating circumstances). Pythra... well, technical difficulty. I do think Rex should be the fighter, with Pythra being swappable in the background of each stage, standing where Pokemon Trainer stands.

i don't think i have much interest in the next DLC if this is how things are going. and im dissapointed they decided to milk FF7 again because Terra, Zidane, Cecil and others do not exist, and the extra content Seph brings doesn't really make me interested in him either. Woo Hoo, Seph brings content that should have come with Cloud in the base game, nice.

Didn't you just above criticize that the most popular character (which, in context, I'm using interchangeably with protagonist, as well as mascot) should be the character? There is no denying that Sephiroth is 2nd most known name in Final Fantasy.

All in All, i only really liked like 3 of the 6 characters, and only really play as 2 of them. The only reason im not that upset at the DLC is that i got K.Rool and Simon, and Ridley, and all the other veterans, including those that i love (Wolf, Mewtwo, Roy) and have come to play a lot more often (Toon Link, Zelda, Diddy Kong) so i got my fix. In hindsight i think i would have preferred to ditch Fighter Pass 2 and instead focus on bringing some extra modes, like Smash Run, i would gladly trade all of FP2 for Smash Run 2: Revenge of Mimicutie.

Like, who needs Joker and Sephiroth when i can play as Simon in Smash Run 2, yeah, that sounds nice.

Nothing to break down here. I hear your point.

Though, this discussion's like a week old now, and probably should be dropped in case it gets heated, IMO at least.

I legitimately want to know what it was that they thought was happening when they bought the pass.

1. Joker - Everyone on Smash Character Discussion knows that I am not wild about this niche fighter that hasn't really appeared on a major Title on a Nintendo Console. Yet he is #1 among popular picks by Smash Japan fans so he is HUGE in Japan and has a strong niche following in other parts of the world as shown by his sells. Still, he just doesn't have much legacy with Nintendo or Smash fans in general.

4. Terry - This pick is interesting. His character is iconic but not as well known in major markets like the USA and he isn't really big on Nintendo. Fighting franchises are underrepresented but I think Heihachi, Chun Li, Scorpion, or Akira from Virtual Fighter would have been better picks for this spot.

There is likely not anything that will convince me that these two picks were not specifically chosen by Sakurai.
Smash Bros was heavily influenced by both of them- we all know the story of Sakurai beating a kid in an arcade at Terry's game. Sakurai specifically stated his reverence his preference for Persona, down to using it as a menu, when he ...somehow... couldn't think of another option.

 

[Shroob]

I legitimately want to know what it was that they thought was happening when they bought the pass.

While I can't speak 100% on their behalf, at least reading their posts, they seem to find it unfair that Nintendo released the fighter's pass the same day as release, did not show off who the characters were, and they were in a "hype state" that they impulse bought it, and are now effectively trying to say that this is predatory marketing akin to something like a lootbox, where you buy something not knowing what you'll get.

Though, if I were to simplify it, they impulse bought the pass day 1 and are upset they didn't get what they wanted.


Just my 2 cents, I'm not them, but that's what I get reading their posts.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wow, imagine getting to a point where first parties are so looked down upon. And calling fighters shill picks for a game that came out years ago at this point? Imagine being disappointed Nintendo put their own content into their own game.

Look, I don't like several of the DLC picks, pretty much most of the third parties, I don't like how third party focused it has been much like Smash 4 DLC which started this oversaturation (remember when Sonic just coming back was a big deal?). Kind of an irony that I also don't like it that much, but seemingly for a different main reason. Plus, I'm not a fan of them not putting Rex. I probably won't like what tomorrow brings, but apparently I can still lose when winning anyway.

For the first time since Brawl, when I started speculation, I have a solid list of characters that I now want in Smash- broken up into three tears, as well as into Nintendo or Third Party.
There are just about as many Nintendo characters on this list as their are third parties- in each tier.
However, my difficulty with Nintendo is that, while there are some top tier characters from represented franchises (Paper Mario, Captain Toad, Dixie, Eevee, Meowth/Team Rocket), majority come from series that I feel would do well to be in Smash in the first place. I do wish instead of Byleth, maybe even Pythra, that we had Chibi Robo, Sukapon, Balloon Fighter, Andy ('Wars), Dragaux, Excite Biker, Chorus Kids, Lip, Isaac...I honestly don't understand why we do not- it suits Nintendo well to bring more attention to these quirky, mostly well selling, games.

While I can't speak 100% on their behalf, at least reading their posts, they seem to find it unfair that Nintendo released the fighter's pass the same day as release, did not show off who the characters were, and they were in a "hype state" that they impulse bought it, and are now effectively trying to say that this is predatory marketing akin to something like a lootbox, where you buy something not knowing what you'll get.

Though, if I were to simplify it, they impulse bought the pass day 1 and are upset they didn't get what they wanted.


Just my 2 cents, I'm not them, but that's what I get reading their posts.

If that is the case, then it is...de facto, nothing like a loot box.
A loot box is a random number generator wherein you have to keep buying to be able to have the content, without any guarantee of what you will get.
The fighters pass is a guarantee- you are going to get exactly what is picked out- it is just unknown to the customer.
None of this free to play, pay to play, gambling incentive that is present in other games, that has been so poorly spoken of in the media (because, that is actually predatory), is relevant to the fighters pass.