Anime Mafia!: Moved To dGames from LoD (Guess who won!)

[Crimson King]

It's mostly work-related and the fact that despite over 75 applications, I have yet to have a positive on a job. I have one interview in a few weeks, but I probably hurt my chances by stating my salary requirements as relatively high. I am also trying to get an apprenticeship with an electrician (as you saw in the BRoom), but I was informed that it'd be months before I hear back, and I cannot apply until Monday.

With the new house, it's hard to do anything productive and get out of this self-loathing.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

22nd Vote Count

----------

McFox (1) - KevinM
Tom (3) - ChiboSempai, Xiivi
ChiboSempai (1) - Tom

Not voting (5): McFox, Vyse, bowser king, Marc, Crimson King

----------

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline in a week

 

[Tom]

can we possibly pre-emptively extend the deadline? i have a feeling that we are going to need it

 

[CT Chia]

please say what scummy things i have done,

outside of "oh so im not mafia anymore?" which was joking around obviously and not even a big deal that ppl likely jumped on for a quick lynch.

 

[Steel]

Activity Notice:

ChiboSempai - 11-19-2009, 11:47 PM

Tom - 11-19-2009, 07:14 PM

Crimson King - 11-19-2009, 06:27 PM

Mcfox - 11-19-2009, 06:24 PM

Vyse - 11-19-2009, 07:29 AM

Xiivi - 11-18-2009, 09:16 PM (~10 hours till prod)

Marc - 11-18-2009, 08:38 PM (~9 hours till prod)

bowser king - 11-18-2009, 08:21 PM (~9 hours till prod)

KevinM - 11-18-2009, 08:08 PM (~9 hours till prod)

There will be no deadline extension. You guys shouldn't and won't get used to that, instead make use of your reasonable time period with activity.

 

[Bowser King]

Chibo, are you done reading over the past couple of pages? If so, what are your opinion on things? Since we haven't hear much from you on recent events.

 

[Xiivi]

Meh, can we just lynch Tom.

He basically just OMGUS'd and continued attacking obv-VI Chibo and blamed the votes on him as him just being outscummed to cover the OMGUS.

Too much buddying between BK/Tom as well.

 

[KevinM]

I'm down with CK/Mcfox.

That's about it.

 

[Xiivi]

Sorry bro, I'm not interested in following scum around on mislynches.

Maybe Chibo will cave come deadline and follow you again? He's got 2 votes! :D

 

[KevinM]

Rofl k.

ten ks.

 

[Marc]

I promise I'll be more active and won't get prodded again.

I'll do a reread soon, but I wanna say I'm not comfortable with lynching someone who is independent at worst (Chibo), especially since we're doing poorly so far.

 

[Crimson King]

I'll do whatever. I really don't care at this point. It sucks that a lot is happening now when I am actually enjoying this game. I should be able to force myself to get over it all enough by tomorrow, so if we can hold out until then, I'd be appreciative.

 

[Vyse]

I'm waiting for CK's read for when he feels he's ready to give it.
Kevin, can you elaborate on your suspicions?

 

[KevinM]

I think I did already if you would read back.

Basically the fact that not both of Mcfox's connections died eliminates them from him. I don't feel it's coincidence.

 

[Xiivi]

You completely ignore the possibility that that could have been purposely set-up by anyone. You bringing it up first and using it as your main point looks to me like you could have very well planned it yourself.

So I'm not really trusting your desires to chase ghosts around.

 

[KevinM]

If you're going to be blatantly unhelpful and dismiss all possibilities you're not helping either.

You're not making any cases except for a stretch on Vyse and just shooting everything else down.

 

[Xiivi]

Cool story bro.

Sorry town isn't all up for following your chasing ghosts behind McFox theory and lynch CK because you're still suspicious of those contradictions you backed down on Day 1 and those are the only possibilities in your eyes.

If you're going to be blatantly unhelpful and ignore things, and not actually bother to follow through with your "I think we have to focus on basically everyone, I feel like I don't have a decent feel for half the people in this game." comment and continue to ignore questions/whatever like you did to CK's #644, but take the time to pop in to yell at Chibo for not reading, then there isn't much we can do with you eh?

Doesn't matter when half the players aren't active anyway and just "reserving" their opinions/votes until someone else posts half the time anyway.

 

[Crimson King]

All right, after an amazing surprise party from my friends, I feel better. Here is my line of thought at the moment:

My current "lynch candidates" include Tom, Chibo, and McFox.

Tom:
Tom is not playing the same game he always does, and while that is probably personal life related, I feel it's hurting us from moving forward. Nearly every game that Tom is in, I watch him for leads to move on and do stuff. Bad idea? Of course, but I know Tom's knowledge of the game is unparalleled, and his skills at this game are well-known. As I learned to play Tom tends to follow a pretty standard concept of playing, he grills everyone, as town or mafia, he is assertive and aggressive, and it is usually impossible to know his role or affiliation. This game features an impassive, indecisive Tom who made a grave mistake Day 1 with mislynching Air, telling us to back of BK (who I think a lot more people were comfortable lynching), and didn't really add a whole lot to the game. Out of all of my list, I feel he'd be the best lynch for another day, but I do not feel confident enough to lynch him today.

Chibo:
Well, as an admitted double voter, it's interesting that he wasn't killed. The Vote is a powerful Town Weapon, and the mafia has basically let us keep an extra bullet handy. This move concerns me because other than possibly setting us up for a mislynch, which requires a lot of assumptions on their part, Chibo remaining alive hurts them... unless he's an indie. If Chibo is an indie, he will do whatever he can to stay alive. His hammer on Air also paints him as a dangerous player: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8828772&postcount=580.

With Chibo or Tom we stand to gain some insight on other players. Chibo flipping mafia will make me suspicious of those who supported him in his attempts and concern me as to why Tom was his prime suspect. If Chibo flips Indie, then we need to study the people that voted with the Air lynch because there is a good chance they are mafia in there that used the Indie for help.

McFox:
Kevin and Xiivi made excellent claims: the two people linked to McFox are dead and flipped town (Kevin's claim), and this could be a set-up (Xiivi's claim). With this one, I am more inclined to believe the latter as opposed to the former; however, I think this wasn't given enough of investigation.

Headache kicking in now, but I am most comfortable with Chibo as a lynch. His double vote, while helpful to the town, it can be a powerful weapon with mislynching, for example, today, we need 5 votes to lynch. Tomorrow, we'll need four that's Chibo and two mafia members to bring us to the end of the game. That is too harrowing for me, so Vote: Chibo.

 

[McFox]

I really can't say much against "the connections to me are gone." One of those I caused, the other one was a NK. ToDay I did attempt to forge a few more connections by putting my thoughts down on other players. If that isn't enough then there really isn't anything I can do there.

I don't know about Chibo. The "he's an indy" angle has been played up a lot. Like I said earlier, I'm still not comfortable that Chibo was basically counting 100% on us all jumping away from him immediately after he claimed (which we did), after he basically did everything in his power to out the double-voter, even when others were telling him to shut up.

I'll have to reread his posts around that time.

 

[KevinM]

Mass prod available?

 

[Crimson King]

Please? We have a deadline in 3 days, and I'd rather not have any extensions, but in order for that to be possible, we need an active game.

 

[Steel]

mass prod sent

 

[Marc]

A Mafia Doublevoter should not exist, ever. Banking on that is banking on an imbalanced setup. This from a person who was a Mafia Voteblocker in another game, but this is even more of a stretch. I agree with CK's observations of Tom, but lynching him because he doesn't do much doesn't cut it for me. I'm somewhat surprised we're already down to 9, meaning we can't afford (m)any more mistakes. One more mislynch allowed, probably.

2. Crimson King - Very active/aggressive, information upon death.
3. McFox - Links are dead, suspicion by KevinM.
4. Vyse - Bad vibes, suspicion by Xiivi.
6. Bowser King - No read on.

Kinda funny how the list works. I'd be comfortable with lynching any of the 4 above this paragraph and uncomfortable with any of the 5 below.

7. Xiivi - Complete opposite from how he was in Disney Mafia.
9. ChiboSempai - Rolecleared, possibly independent.
10. KevinM - Same as usual.
11. Marc - Me.
12. Tom - No good case against him.

 

[KevinM]

I agree with Marc.

Here's how its gonna work.

These following people

Vyse
CK
BK
And
Mcfox

Can you please state your suspicions clearly and let me know which of the other three you would like to lynch and do it quickly since we don't have a lot of time.

For the sake of this I'd like you to keep it within those 4.

 

[Crimson King]

A Mafia Doublevoter should not exist, ever. Banking on that is banking on an imbalanced setup. This from a person who was a Mafia Voteblocker in another game, but this is even more of a stretch. I agree with CK's observations of Tom, but lynching him because he doesn't do much doesn't cut it for me. I'm somewhat surprised we're already down to 9, meaning we can't afford (m)any more mistakes. One more mislynch allowed, probably.

That's why I wasn't banking on him being a Mafia double voter. I banked on him being an indie doublevoter:

If Chibo is an indie, he will do whatever he can to stay alive. His hammer on Air also paints him as a dangerous player: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=580.

Since I do not feel confident with Chibo having the ability to basically in the game in a day or two, I think removing him now is the best for the town. His misvote/manipulation/intentional bad play will hurt us later, and on tomorrow, he could help the Mafia bring us to Mylo. I do not feel confident enough on anyone else to be lynched at the moment, and I think the Tom bandwagon isn't going to help enough in the long term.

 

[Crimson King]

Kevin, you need to stop skimming and learn to actually read posts.

I agree with Marc.

Here's how its gonna work.

These following people

Vyse
CK
BK
And
Mcfox

Can you please state your suspicions clearly and let me know which of the other three you would like to lynch and do it quickly since we don't have a lot of time.

For the sake of this I'd like you to keep it within those 4.

I, not only stated the people I was suspicious of, but I voted. Just because they don't fit into your list, doesn't mean they aren't suspicious.

All right, after an amazing surprise party from my friends, I feel better. Here is my line of thought at the moment:

My current "lynch candidates" include Tom, Chibo, and McFox.

Tom:
Tom is not playing the same game he always does, and while that is probably personal life related, I feel it's hurting us from moving forward. Nearly every game that Tom is in, I watch him for leads to move on and do stuff. Bad idea? Of course, but I know Tom's knowledge of the game is unparalleled, and his skills at this game are well-known. As I learned to play Tom tends to follow a pretty standard concept of playing, he grills everyone, as town or mafia, he is assertive and aggressive, and it is usually impossible to know his role or affiliation. This game features an impassive, indecisive Tom who made a grave mistake Day 1 with mislynching Air, telling us to back of BK (who I think a lot more people were comfortable lynching), and didn't really add a whole lot to the game. Out of all of my list, I feel he'd be the best lynch for another day, but I do not feel confident enough to lynch him today.

Chibo:
Well, as an admitted double voter, it's interesting that he wasn't killed. The Vote is a powerful Town Weapon, and the mafia has basically let us keep an extra bullet handy. This move concerns me because other than possibly setting us up for a mislynch, which requires a lot of assumptions on their part, Chibo remaining alive hurts them... unless he's an indie. If Chibo is an indie, he will do whatever he can to stay alive. His hammer on Air also paints him as a dangerous player: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8828772&postcount=580.

With Chibo or Tom we stand to gain some insight on other players. Chibo flipping mafia will make me suspicious of those who supported him in his attempts and concern me as to why Tom was his prime suspect. If Chibo flips Indie, then we need to study the people that voted with the Air lynch because there is a good chance they are mafia in there that used the Indie for help.

McFox:
Kevin and Xiivi made excellent claims: the two people linked to McFox are dead and flipped town (Kevin's claim), and this could be a set-up (Xiivi's claim). With this one, I am more inclined to believe the latter as opposed to the former; however, I think this wasn't given enough of investigation.

Headache kicking in now, but I am most comfortable with Chibo as a lynch. His double vote, while helpful to the town, it can be a powerful weapon with mislynching, for example, today, we need 5 votes to lynch. Tomorrow, we'll need four that's Chibo and two mafia members to bring us to the end of the game. That is too harrowing for me, so Vote: Chibo.

 

[Xiivi]

I'm going to back Marc/Kev on this one.

CK your whole 'Chibo is dangerous!' is meh. It's like "man, having a vig is bad because they could be wrong, let's kill them."

 

[Crimson King]

Xiivi: VASTLY different. Chibo has the potential to swing the game tomorrow if the Mafia can convince him at all. That will make a lynch on someone with 3 votes versus 4. With only 12 people in the game, the mafia will only be around 2 people, especially if Chibo is an indie. Considering that indies can win whether Mafia or Town does, Chibo is a dangerous variable.

Vigilantes who are pro-Town are MUCH safer versus an SK, and you know that.

 

[Tom]

I am desperately trying not to post my opinions on that list you just posted, Kevin, because I know it would basically ruin the entire reason why you posted it and asked the people on the list to post their opinions. CK already responded, and Marc will probably respond quickly.

My vote is currently on Chibo and that is where I am most comfortable putting it. However, if three or four other people decide that they are uniformly suspicious of a player on that list, I might get off Chibo. I really don't think theres a better choice though. Chibo is alive not because of his opinions or because of his record but because of meta, basically, and I am not okay with that. That doesn't seem to be enough for Marc, Kevin, and Xiivi, and I'm comfortable saying 2/3 of them are town, so that is enough to make me comfortable with changing my vote off of Chibo and onto their selection, be it Vyse, McFox.

I don't know why people are suspicious of BK...

 

[KevinM]

CK the fact that you didn't answer and assumed I skimmed pisses me off to no end. ANSWER the question I stated, don't cover it in the way you did.

I said of the four I mentioned name the one you want to lynch and make a case of why.

Go.

 

[KevinM]

Also don't assume I didn't read your suspicions post I want a fully fleshed out case of the one you are most suspicious of in that lynch pool of four.

 

[McFox]

Vyse - Probably town. I already explained why in 654. In short, he really tried to convince air to drop his "case" against Kat and contribute, and showed to him he was wrong that went above and beyond the normal call of duty in a mafia game.

BK - Hasn't made a single real contribution to the game so far. It's hard to fault him for it, since he's new. At the same time, it seems like we can't really afford to remove anyone else just because they'd be unhelpful. He's posted so little that it's hard to get a consistent read on him. Out of the people currently being questioned, I'd be most comfortable lynching him, but it's slight.

I look forward to hearing BK's thoughts on this.

CK - I'm having as much trouble reading his game as I usually do. I do agree with him that Chibo could be indy, and even if he isn't he could be dangerous for us. However, unlike CK, I'm not sure if we can afford to off someone who has only a 50% chance of being indy, with the other 50% being town. Especially not when Chibo is already NK-bait anyway.

So, if it had to come down to one of the four of us, I'd go with BK, but that's mostly because he's new and hasn't given us much. Out of everyone in the game, I'd probably go with Marc. I didn't find his answers very good when he was being pressured by Kev/CK earlier (as I mentioned in 647), and his recent list that has come up with the four people that everyone is now focusing on... is a list of the people everyone was already suspicious of anyway. Could've been a way to make sure, with 3 days left, that focus stays elsewhere until the end of the day.

Vote: Marc

 

[CT Chia]

Since Tom’s pretty popular right now, let’s look at some posts of his.
Reading through Tom’s previous plays, he’s been fairly inconsistent.

So if not Chibo, you’d want to vote Xiivi.
K.

So after unvoting Chibo despite doubting his alignment and despite saying earlier that you’d vote for Xiivi if not Chibo (granted it was 200 posts ago) you chose to vote for airgemini even after defending his posts.

But your reasoning was that you wanted to end the day soon to prevent a no-lynch, so you didn’t vote Xiivi and voted on a current wagon instead. That’s fine, so did the rest of us. But the thing is, at that point there was 2 votes for BK and 2 for airgemini.

What I’d like to know is why you decided to vote for air instead of BK. You defended both of these players, but chose air when BK already had a stain against his name and until that point you saw air’s play style as a good thing.

Tom's reply:

@vyse, per your 658: since you challenged me to summarize my play, i will. day 1, initially i found xiivi to be the most suspicious, but i thought that it was unfortunate for the focus of play to be so early on susomni+xiivi. i saw an improvement in airgemini's logical capabilities after he had completed games as both town and scum and i was sort of proud of that. xiivi was my main suspicion but i was worried it might be just ghost-thoughts from previous games with mass multi-posters and that playstyle. KevinM then started a Chibo wagon and I decided to hop on that to pressure Chibo. His play has been ill-informed. When the Chibo wagon dissolved, people jumped on BK as a knee-jerk reaction and I tried my best to dissolve that completely and I think it can be attributed to me. I didn't like the look of that, at all. Then surprise it was deadline and I did not want a No Lynch. Chibo lynch was out of the question because he has been basically cleared by his second vote, and I thought my qualms with Xiivi would go away as he stopped multi-posting. I did not want a BK lynch, so I agreed to an Airgemini lynch. We had to lynch someone. Day 2, I've tried to continually get Bowser King to say his opinions and put them on record, and I think its helping. Chibo called me out on it like it was a bad thing for some reason in his 630,632, but I think I dismissed that fairly well in 634 because he completely dropped it and simply moved to McFox.

I mean like, yea this makes sense I guess overall as a big picture, but there's still some smaller details I don't understand that I would like for you to clear up:

-Why would you rather lynch whoever has the most votes atm (even though the most votes on someone was 2 compared to runner up being 1 which isn't much of a "lead") with your case being "had to lynch someone." You were completely taking a shot in the dark and not being careful. Sure, voting and lynching are the towns standard tool in defeating the mafia, but when you use it blindingly with the chance of taking out town (especially considering statistically there is a better chance of landing on town than scum) then why did you feel the NEED to lynch someone?

-Why choose Air? If you NEEDED to lynch someone then why not choose BK as Vyse pointed out? He actually had a bad strike against him that day, so why not lynch someone who actually did something less than favorable on day 1?

-Why was my lynch out of the question yesterday but now a possibility today? What has changed?

The urge to lynch in this situation (especially coupled with who Tom chose to vote for in the end) feels pretty scummy.

---

Other stuff:

I don't know why I wasn't killed last night. It could have even been a mafia ploy to not kill me thinking you guys would come to this conclusion. Look at the situation now, you guys are now considering lynching a claimed town power role that has proof. I'm not sure why you guys are thinking like this. In terms of scum if they were the ones that pulled this off, then it got the town to lose focus on scum players Day 2, and got them to kill another townie that's not me Night 1. Also, who's to say I wasn't protected somehow by a Jailer, Roleblocker, Doctor, etc. It would seem logical for a Doctor to have protected me last night after I claimed. Also, not to mention the mafia could have easily figured I would have been protected (why not?) so they went ahead and targeted someone else to not waste their kill.

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo:
Well, as an admitted double voter, it's interesting that he wasn't killed. The Vote is a powerful Town Weapon, and the mafia has basically let us keep an extra bullet handy. This move concerns me because other than possibly setting us up for a mislynch, which requires a lot of assumptions on their part, Chibo remaining alive hurts them... unless he's an indie. If Chibo is an indie, he will do whatever he can to stay alive. His hammer on Air also paints him as a dangerous player: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8828772&postcount=580.

Hypothetically if I were an indie, why wouldn't scum still be potentially afraid of me?

 

[CT Chia]

Since I do not feel confident with Chibo having the ability to basically in the game in a day or two, I think removing him now is the best for the town. His misvote/manipulation/intentional bad play will hurt us later, and on tomorrow, he could help the Mafia bring us to Mylo. I do not feel confident enough on anyone else to be lynched at the moment, and I think the Tom bandwagon isn't going to help enough in the long term.

I don't see exactly how I can help mafia bring us to Mylo, just by them convincing me? I'm obviously going to be a lot more careful with my vote as the days go on and the # required to lynch becomes less and less. If you recall earlier I already displayed such caution when I first voted Tom but not double voted him so I wouldn't put him at L-2 yet since I didn't want to get him too close to death with being VLA, and I had wanted to hear more from him. In the end, me being a double voter is more beneficial than hurtful to the town, especially when considering by lynching me your lynchign a town aligned player.

 

[CT Chia]

EBWOP #713

Somehow the top of my post got cut off, probably when I went to advanced or something. It wasn't much, but pretty much saying like (iirc)

Just got done catching up, including reading all of the big posts a couple pages back. There isn't too much to comment on it overall as most of it seems pretty solid with what people said. The one thing that stood out to me particularly though:

-continue onto my quote of Vyse-

 

[Marc]

Vote: McFox

Surely you can do better than that.

 

[Crimson King]

Hypothetically if I were an indie, why wouldn't scum still be potentially afraid of me?

The mafia know each other and could easily use that to play you into their game. The fact of the matter is they wouldn't have to worry about you until the end of the game because your voting can easily help them get a nice mislynch. Your double voting can be a HUGE factor in any day.

I don't see exactly how I can help mafia bring us to Mylo, just by them convincing me? I'm obviously going to be a lot more careful with my vote as the days go on and the # required to lynch becomes less and less. If you recall earlier I already displayed such caution when I first voted Tom but not double voted him so I wouldn't put him at L-2 yet since I didn't want to get him too close to death with being VLA, and I had wanted to hear more from him. In the end, me being a double voter is more beneficial than hurtful to the town, especially when considering by lynching me your lynchign a town aligned player.

Careful, yes, but you, like a lot of the games I have seen here, are imagining a dumb mafia. I imagine an intelligent mafia that knows what they are doing and knows how to play the town, like Disney Mafia. The mafia in that game was pretty smart and used Omni to basically lead the town to total destruction.

I am unconvinced you are a townie, and I am convinced you are an indie.

Kevin: I have no reason to answer to you whatsoever. Your demanding me to answer to your scrutiny will not help me at all and instead play into a trap that you have no doubt devised. I grow quite tired of your constant badgering, and I really question your motives and interests.

 

[CT Chia]

I still don't get why people believe I'm an indie and not town.

 

[Vyse]

Per Kevin's request:

Looking at CK, BK and McFox, I'd be more inclined to lynch CK based on the case I've made thusfar. CK has yet to attempt to refute the points I've made on my read of him (that being either an oversight or simply just not wanting to address the points I've made but considering his RL problems I'd be inclined to believe its the former).

Particularly posts #650 and #671.

With BK and McFox I'd be slightly more inclined to lynch BK simply for the fact that he is very inactive in this game, asking questions here or there and not attempting to follow through with anything. Also Tom's continual trying to protect BK, telling everyone to back off of him is strange. The votes were a kneejerk reaction, sure, but on the same token, it was day 1 and we were given a situation where one person did something so anti-town that somebody was forced to roleclaim. It reminds me of when I first pinned the prostitute role to airgemini in Grammys, but Kevin was quick to downplay it, saying that he wouldn't back the theory based on flavour - Kevin was Mafia.

The case of McFox is one that is largely riding on the conclusions drawn from the connections that were cut from him. In #671 I commented on how CK felt that the night kill was a ploy to paint CK in a bad light, but that could just as easily go for McFox. On the same token, it could just be reverse psychology. This is just parroting Xivii's and Kevin's theories, but I don't think there's much else to bring to the table. In essence the McFox problem is one that is based more on guessing the mafia's intentions than picking out scummy play since he's seems to have been reasonably consistent in his posts. (Though admittedly, I should re-read his).

In either case I'm not confident in either of those two for the previous reasons.

Vote: Crimson King