Anime Mafia!: Moved To dGames from LoD (Guess who won!)

[KevinM]

You do realize everyone is inactive in this game and no one has addressed the points I've brought up.

 

[Crimson King]

You do realize everyone is inactive in this game and no one has addressed the points I've brought up.

Nicely played. I like your pressure on McFox and how right when you did it, he became defensive.

McFox, since the weekend is now over, can you give some insight into Kevin's assessments? A lot of us were guilty of the Air lynch, and since we are under no assurance that Mafia was even IN on the lynch, we need to pressure these lynchers (myself included) to clear as many as we can.

 

[KevinM]

I think we have to focus on basically everyone, I feel like I don't have a decent feel for half the people in this game.

 

[Crimson King]

So, working from that, who DO you have a feel for and your opinions on them? You've been a bit more reserved in your opinions than usual.

 

[Marc]

And you've been more active/aggressive. How do you explain that?

 

[Bowser King]

McFox, since the weekend is now over, can you give some insight into Kevin's assessments? A lot of us were guilty of the Air lynch, and since we are under no assurance that Mafia was even IN on the lynch, we need to pressure these lynchers (myself included) to clear as many as we can.

I think this approach is a good choice. Since we have a week and a few days till deadline, I think we should get certain people cleared up on the Air lynch so we know we don't overlook anyone before Day 3. I agree though that we also need to focus on other people too.

 

[McFox]

~****in' A. I had this post half-written up and lost it trying to "Go Advanced." Here we go again.~

Yes, now that it isn't the weekend, I can respond. First, re: Kev's assessment:

And idk with Mcfox pushing on Air who was the main proprietor for Kat's lynch and the lynching Kat that night.

You basically eliminate a really big connection. And for that I find him suspicious.

I can't really think of much to say beyond what I originally said. The minute I started reading the game, I got strong town vibes from Kat. I broke down air's "case" against Kat in my first post of the game. I tried to see if air would possibly look at anyone else several times, but he was 100% tunnel-visioned. When I originally wrote this post up I had a lot of quotes from air all saying "I don't know I just feel like Kat is mafia lol," but I think the following quotes sums it up pretty well:

Well, SuSa was in my pool of suspicion in the near beginning of the game. Looking back at my posts like this:

If he flipped up town I'd think Kataefi was mafia because he was defending SuSa which somewhat implies that he knew that SuSa was town and tried to make himself look townish the next day. Well, it would to me anyways.

It kind of makes me think Kat is mafia.

But this post counters that one:

Right now my three suspicions are Kataefi, Xiivi, and SuSa.
Might be unlikely, but I kind of have the feeling the three of them were working together near the beginning of the game. The three of them conversed a lot when SuSa was making all of those posts. Yeah, it could just be good activity, but I could kind of see it as a plan.

Since he ended up being a townie, you're not really on my list of suspicions anymore. But I'm still confused on Kat from this and the above post. I can't seem to make up my mind about him.

I mean, he had nothing on Kat and he still wouldn't let it go. What if they had both survived to D2? I really don't see how he could have helped us win. Being that tunnel-visioned isn't going to help.

As for Kat being killed at night, I can't really say anything there either. It may have been done on purpose since air and Kat were the two people I talked about most yesterday. Or it may have been random.

And then the more recent suspicion on me is because I haven't posted recently? I'm moving to NY in January, so I'm trying to spend as much time with my RL friends as I can. Friday I went ice skating, Saturday we watched Knocked Up, and Sunday I was running the BRoom D&D game. If you want to fault me for that, then that's your right. But I can't really defend against not being here for a few days at this time in my life.

I will, however, make a better effort to actually contribute when I can post.

That said, I'll weigh in on a few more people.

Kev - Kev is playing the same as he always is, which is frustrating because he could do it from either side of the fence. He simply pushes on people, tries to coerce others into doing the same. He could do this as town trying to catch mafia, or mafia trying to mislynch townies. That being said, Kev is not a suspect for me at this point in the game.

Marc - I didn't find his defense when you guys were pushing on him earlier satisfactory at all. From what I read, it was almost all just appeals to emotion and "You guys always think I'm mafia it's not fair." However, he also said that he's mafia 7 out of 10 times. So... he doesn't like that people think he's always mafia, even though more than half the time he is?

Vyse - I think Vyse is town. He seems like he's trying to contribute, and I don't think Xiivi's case against him has much merit:

Vyse offered air a very vague bargain of "answer my question to my liking in this timeframe and I'll unvote you."

He then proceeded to ride the wagon until lynch without any other input.

Maybe air didn't answer Vyse's question to his liking? I know air didn't answer anything to my liking.

Xiivi -

Can't argue with that.

unvote: vote: McFox

Let's get the day rolling along.

This seems like a pretty large departure from the way Xiivi has played the entire rest of the game. He's been so meticulous and careful about being right, and now he's willing to lynch me just because Kev posted a second time that I should be lynched? Xiivi has yet to post his reasons why I should be lynched, despite the fact that so far he's posted lengthy reasons for everything he's done.

I'm not ready to place a vote yet, but there are my thoughts.

 

[Xiivi]

It was to pressure, and it worked. The game was stalling with people starting to discuss each other's metas and nothing productive happening. I decided to change that.

Air's 100% tunnel vision + stubbornness about Kat and calling it a gut read looked a lot more like a stubborn townie than a stubborn scum. The lynch was awful and people jumped on the wagon because they thought the day was going to end. Then the day was extended, and people stayed on anyways, and it was more as if they were inventing reasons to stay on the lynch, mostly saying it would reveal connections/information. (Oh look, it left us nowhere apparently, how convenient.) It was far too easy of a lynch to fall back on.

What town tells do you have on Vyse? That he's 'trying to contribute'? He's been really objective all game and has done very little to scumhunt. Post 629 is one big restatement of what's happened, parroting what other people have been suspicious of, and asking some random questions. His Day 1 posts aren't much bigger. He just comes in and says things like "Xiivi doesn't have more posts than SuSa anymore." It's all factual things to make it seem like he's doing something when he really isn't.

Heck, let's just go over 629 for the heck of it.

-------

Back home now.
Xiivi, nobody seems to support your vote (though Tom doesn't appear to be against it).

Xiivi, no one else is voting me. Tom seems neutral.

Thanks for the update Vyse!

I only set down that time frame because there was a chance that during my exam air would get hammered. So I was just saying that it would be in his best interest to make a case sooner than later because I wouldn't be around for a while to read it.

In the first place, my case on airgemini has been more based on my own reasoning after commenting and asking questions about it earlier on. In this post you pointed out that despite me commenting on the situation, and I feel as though it's part of the reason why I finally placed a vote down (The other of course being the case I was building against Air).

Air didn't do himself any favours. And I'm not sure what you mean by a 'very vague' bargain when I clearly asked him to respond to my earlier analysis of Kat which completely contradicted Air's case against him.

His answer was "I just have a feeling," which, whilst showing where he was coming from with his vote, didn't actually answer my question at all, which was why he felt Kat was posting the same way he was in Grammys when clearly he wasn't.

The majority of your case seems to be "Air you are wrong. Kat's play is different than Grammys." It's a very objective way to take things. I'm fairly sure at some point Air mentioned that he felt Kat was being coached in some way, and that it was rubbing him the wrong way. Kat being coached differently than in Grammys was entirely possible. Regardless, using Air's "wrongness" as scumminess is a dumb "case" to build on Air. You weren't building a case either. You were going through the day making little comments about things here and there objectively. When you finally placed your vote down, you made it seem like you really didn't even want to be voting Air. "Air, hear my plea! Defend yourself, answer my question to my liking and I'll unvote you!" It would have been very easy for you to just not have been fine with his answer had he made some detailed case and used it to justify your vote on him. It was a very non-committed vote.

There was nothing more to say. Air didn't do anything except maintain that people seemed to be voting for him for no reason. At one point I was almost compelled to unvote when he reminded us all about bowser king. But the air lynch felt better to me, it felt like air was focussing on Kat to appear active without actually putting himself out there in the midst of it all. And also that the deadline was the next day.

So you were reading/lurking, and decided to not comment when Air mentioned BK and just instead decided to ride the lynch to day end even though you agreed with Air to an extent about BK?

One thing I want to point out is that Xiivi had a posting restriction in Disney Mafia (each post had to contain a number of the letter S's equal to half the words in the post) or something similar, which I imagine would have made posting harder to the point of not being able to post at a bajillion miles an hour like he did at the start of this game.

Look, you said a fact. Thanks for the reminder.

Though that's hardly any basis for a case against him, that's one game where he had a posting restriction. The theory that he had a posting restriction based on number of posts in the thread was debunked when Susa took over briefly for top poster (though right now he has the most posts in the thread again).

Xiivi could be faulted for having a scummy posting restriction. But SuSa had more posts at some point in time. So I guess we can't fault Xiivi for that. But actually Xiivi has more posts again.

One question I would like answered by Xiivi though, is why he picked me when others were doing close enough to the same thing?

Everyone voted Air! All votes are equal and the same! Xiivi you totally didn't mention it was because of my timeframe bargaining with Air.

I've got another question. Kevin, Tom and Marc all agreed that airgemini should roleclaim. Is this because air simply couldn't defend himself? I'm just trying to see the difference between what bowser king did and what all three of those guys did.

People asked Air to roleclaim. BK asked Air to roleclaim. Aren't these the same thing guys? BK voted Chibo to L-1 and asked for a roleclaim. Air was voted to L-1 and was asked to claim after a decent time at L-1 and didn't curb suspicious. I imply I realize this, but ask it anyway to look like I'm doing something.

If you've been Mafia in most of those past games, I think it's understandable that you become a suspect. Fact of the matter is, everybody who coasts is going to be called out on at some point and if you're not scum hunting, you're going to wind up being hunted instead.

People are attacking you Marc, they have good reason to. I'm not going to attempt to pressure you though and instead appeal to you.

With both Kat and Air dead, it's hard to know where to go so I'll just go ahead and post what's on my mind.

I think the inconsistencies originally pointed out by Kevin in his case against CK in day 1 are still noteworthy and worth a re-read (this is not to say CK is the only suspicious one in their exchange though). Neither can be faulted for the exchange since this is what the game is about, but there might be something noteworthy in there.

Kevin has a case against CK. Between them, they both look suspicious. But not really. But maybe there's something there, can someone point it out for me?

This argument against Marc is valid, but Marc has started opening up and posting his thoughts which I actually thought were fairly enlightening.

I liked people drilling Marc. Marc said enlightening things. I guess I don't really have an opinion on Marc.

Not sure where I stand with Chibo and McFox at the moment though.

Tom is hard to read, especially after one of his last posts, I'm not sure what to think.

I don't have anything to add about these people.

Need a bit more from you bowser king, rather than answering questions, you need to ask questions of your own.

BK you need to contribute more. I don't have an opinion about you either.
---------

There's no content there. At all. It's all wishy-washy stuff and meaningless with no real attempt to bring any new insight on players to the table. He states what other people think, and tries to seem like he's objective about it from both sides.

Maybe air didn't answer Vyse's question to his liking? I know air didn't answer anything to my liking.

Oh no, Air was incapable of giving the "right" answer to people's questions. Darn, how scummy.

I mean, he had nothing on Kat and he still wouldn't let it go. What if they had both survived to D2? I really don't see how he could have helped us win. Being that tunnel-visioned isn't going to help.

How can you fault me for a mislynch?! He was bad to have around either way! I should be allowed to shirk responsibility for my actions.

I think this approach is a good choice. Since we have a week and a few days till deadline, I think we should get certain people cleared up on the Air lynch so we know we don't overlook anyone before Day 3. I agree though that we also need to focus on other people too.

Then why not make the effort yourself? Why not look at someone's posts, and ask about anything that pops into your mind as suspicious? You might garner a reaction and actually get something. You can't sit here, and let everyone else do the scumhunting for you. If you are town you are simply not expressing town opinion and instead allowing scum to have a bigger voice in the game and more easily control the game.

You want to clear people on the Air lynch. Okay how about this:
Look at everyone who voted for Air on the lynch. Look at their reason for voting for Air [a townie]. Then look at everyone not on the lynch and look at their reason for not voting Air [a townie]. Who was scum/town riding the wagon? Who was scum/town avoiding the wagon?

 

[McFox]

It was to pressure, and it worked.

That's cute. You post right before I had already said that I was going to post and then take credit for forcing me to do something I was already planning to do.

I especially enjoy how you act like you haven't made a single mistake in this game, despite the fact that you made your case against Susa so loud that it superceded a lot of what could have been useful discussion D1.

(I predict a "Well if you were paying attention plenty of other stuff happened and you're just not as good as me for following it.")

Oh no, Air was incapable of giving the "right" answer to people's questions. Darn, how scummy.

Air was clearly an invaluable asset to this town with his refusal to even look at any other players besides Kat, and your are scum for voting for him.

I don't think I was asking much. All I wanted was for air to look at anyone else. Even when he would mention someone else in passing (I think I remember something about BK at around the time that everyone voted BK), he would still end with "But I still think Kat is scum lol."

How can you fault me for a mislynch?! He was bad to have around either way! I should be allowed to shirk responsibility for my actions.

Go ahead and fault me for a mislynch. But please, don't pretend like you had anything to do with my recent post, that I promised I would put up anyway. Yes, air was town, but as far as mislynches go, I still say it wasn't much of a loss for us.

I still can't discern your specific reason for voting me (unless it really was for pressure). You mock me and say "Air's lynch isn't my fault!", implying that you think air's lynch is my fault. Fine, I started it. But if you'll remember, I'm the only person who didn't want air to claim. I tried to give him a break. I said that if he could adequately defend himself, he wouldn't have had to claim. And how could have adequately defended himself (for me)? By giving us something to read on anyone else in the game. Not just a sentence in passing, but something real. He absolutely refused to do that. Towards the end I figured he might be town, and I tried to give him an out, but he was not going to be useful at all, and the only other viable lynch at the time was BK simply for doing what they later forced air to do, so I chose to stick with air.

 

[Vyse]

@Xiivi's breakdown in 648:

The content in my previous post clearly isn’t the kind you’re looking for, that is, information that will move the game forward, that wasn’t the point. Please realise that that post was more me giving you a response to your previous post directed at me, as well as letting everyone know what was on my mind. Rather than bringing new things to the table. If you managed to get anything more out of it then congratulations. I do intend to follow up that post with analysis' of each player and scum hunting etc rather than leaving that for others to do for me, my post before was supposed to imply that, but because I didn’t explicitly say the words ‘I think Kevin vs CK is worth looking at, so I’ll look at it in an upcoming post’ I can see where you’re coming from. My only excuse for my play on D1 was that I was far too distracted to play the game because of exams. Pathetic as an excuse and not one I wanted to fall back to, but it’s the truth.

Facts are indisputable, and sometimes people don’t notice them, or want to talk about them because they might debunk some theory or train of thought. Am I supposed to assume that people will know and realise exactly what I do? I can’t see bringing facts to the table, and highlighting the ones I believe are important to be a bad thing (even if what I bring to the table most of the time is of little consequence – it’s when it matters which is important), and I refuse to be faulted for bringing up and stating facts, something that can’t be fabricated and can be taken as truth in a game about deception.

Let’s start here:

NNNOOOOO!!

Bowser King, seriously? You don't pressure someone to role claim. Ever. Adding the vote just adds the pressure to figure out his power role. Whether or not Chibo is lying is not a concern, but forcing a role claim out of him to prove his innocence (versus the way I suggested) is ridiculous.

Unvote. Vote: Bowser King - Reason? By voting and forcing the Chibo to claim, you ensured his death. Claiming a role, especially the one he did, will either have people trust him and move votes off, and the mafia now has a great target, or the town doesn't believe it and the mafia lynches a known power role. Either way, it wasn't a good play. It's not even remotely pro-town.

This is the post that stands as half the reason suspicion on CK began in the first place. One thing I’d like to note is that CK seemed to notice Chibo’s claim before BK’s pressuring, though it’s more than likely that he just read the posts in a reverse order.

Town: Are we okay with a BK lynch? If he should flip town, will we gain anything from this? With no deadline, I think we should maximize discussion of this lynch to its fullest. BK's drawing of Chibo's role is frightening and anti-town to say the least so I am not too opposed to tossing out someone who isn't looking for our best interests.

SuSa gives me bad vibes due to his overuse of "Hand of Suspicion" and his reluctance in voting for BK. He, in essence, confirmed exactly what BK tried to draw out.

This is the second post that would complete Kevin’s case. CK goes from being extremely confident in lynching BK to second guessing the wagon he’s started. It does seem as though he’s attempting to solidify his town image before a lynch.

Unvote
Vote Crimson King

Basically I'm voting CK for the fact that his entire vote BK platform has been like a giant OMGUS also the fact that he keeps saying he doesn't want a quick lynch etc while he's still on the OMGUS train that moves to L-2.

I get the strongest scum vibe from him.

I voted for BK on the premise of his pushing for a claim from Chibo, which helps the mafia if Chibo is town, and his doing so while voting, which put Chibo at L-1. By putting Chibo in a ****ty position where literally anyone could come in and lynch him, he forced Chibo, the townie, to claim. Now, if Chibo is mafia, there are a few inconsistencies there. For one, why would he put himself even further out there by role claiming? Another is why didn't he have really much defense during the bandwagon against him.

As for my not wanting a quick lynch, Kevin, I meant in the fashion of grabbing someone without deep discussion. With BK, I felt a lot more confident in the lynch because of the reason I stated above. However, I feel okay with giving him time, per Tom's request, so Unvote.

@BK: after the Chibo fallout, do you really feel he is guilty or innocent. Reading Tom's sheet, the Politician seems to be only one with double voting powers, and he's an indie. So, I am at a loss there.

I think there’s something to be read in between the lines here. It’s solid reasoning if we indeed have ‘Chibo, the townie’, but then he goes on to insinuate that he may well be a double voting Indie as well (Despite being ‘confused’ he later subscribes to the theory that Chibo is indie).

Also of note is towards the end of the first paragraph where he talks about Chibo putting himself out there by role claiming. Didn’t we already establish that Chibo was wrongfully pressured by BK to roleclaim? Moreover, didn’t CK himself start the vote against BK on that premise in the first place?

Also he points out that nobody came to his defense during the bandwagon against him, inconsistent if he is Mafia, however it is consistent if he was an indie double voter.

My suspicions are still on CK, come on seriously

If that was actually how it happened, I'd almost see your odd logic there, but I unvoted when Tom requested we "back the **** off of BK." So he could breathe.

Considering I understand Tom's experience with the game, I took that as incentive that I was chasing more than there really was. I still consider BK's actions anti-town, but I am willing to respect Tom's insight, and not push BK's lynch.

I really am suspicious as your constant pushing for me. I'm not above claiming anything, but I think your reasons for pushing for my lynch isn't in the favor of the town at all.

I am beginning to like CK’s play less and less in this saga. Kevin makes a solid argument about CK’s defense revolving around ‘I wouldn’t have done it if I were Mafia’, but instead of debating that point, he brushes it off as odd logic. He seems to be justifying his unvote by way of Tom’s request, as though it was a chance to back down on his previous push.

I was confused at first, when Kevin first voted for CK, but when he actually started explaining where it came from, it began to make more sense to me. Though, sadly I wasn’t around to look into it more since I was in exam mode (#403, #404, #405) and asked for a V/LA so I could focus elsewhere and didn’t make the effort to reanalyse it then.

Why would you be suspicious of me for pushing a lynch of a player I find scummy.

Yeah that sure is ****ing weird in mafia rofl.

Well, when your reasons are completely bull****, it's a bit weird.

Hey, guys, I am playing like Kevin now!

*sigh*

Rereading ****s with my head so hard.

Anyways

Unvote
Vote Susa

Even if CK is scummy I can always just keep analyzing his posts.

Might as well lynch the scummiest new player available, makes D2 easier.

Plus, his newbie card attached with his seemingly deeper then he'd like to let on understanding of the game is a worry.

The saga comes to an end when after a re-read Kevin concedes that there’s not enough to keep a vote pinned to CK.

Fast forward: Air and Kat flip town, and CK is quick to get onto Marc’s case, moving discussion away from the people who actually voted for Air (including himself) and onto someone who didn’t vote for anyone.

-=-=-=-=-=-


@CK: You know as well as I that everyone on the air wagon needs to be grilled, so before people forget to ask, how do you justify your position on the wagon?

@Kevin: What's your read on CK now?


-=-=-=-=-=-

This is just my first analysis. Reading that section of the game leads me to believe there’s something more to Chibo as well and to me it’s similar to CK’s dilemma.

Especially with Chibo going from this:

Try coming up with your own reason and not saying exactly what I said. We want to hear YOUR reason, not my reason.

Find out if you ruined your lynch!?

wow, the fact that your completely willing to throw out a power role on chance is so anti town I can't even fathom it.
You're saying I should have been hammered even after claiming double voter -_-

unvote vote BK

I also contacted both mods on AIM to give a vote count update the moment I said i was switching my double vote to BK to prove myself, but neither of them responded.

To this:

CK your reasoning is quite poor. You're proposing that a mafia member tried to find out if I was mafia or town. Except that as a mafia member, they would already know if I was mafia or not. The benefit he got was different, which was revealing if I was a power role or not.

However I really don't see a town mentality at all in forcing a claim like that. No mafia member is going to outright say that he's mafia. He's going to do what he can to slip through the cracks. There's too many things that can go wrong in that sense. It's an awful position for a townie to force someone to claim. Say someone was forced to claim who was mafia, and they lied and said they were Doctor. One of two things happen. The town believes him and hes hidden from suspicion for a bit. The other option being the real doctor (if there is one) steps up and says how the claimer is wrong. Well guess what, then the mafia successfully found the town doc.

I fail to see a positive situation ever come out of a townie forcing a claim on someone. Mafia however, I see plenty of opportunities.

It feels like Chibo is jumping about here. He was quick to jump on board with CK’s logic, and applying the anti-town argument to his own justification for voting, but as soon as Kevin’s justification for his vote against CK arises, he’s quick to criticise CK’s reasoning as well.

This is all I can be bothered reading/writing right now. My next post will contain a breakdown of the rest of the players in the game and hopefully I'll dig up something new. (I wanted to go with what I talked about in my last post first). It’s like 12am and I wanna sleep =_=

 

[Xiivi]

That's cute. You post right before I had already said that I was going to post and then take credit for forcing me to do something I was already planning to do.

k, I didn't force you. why you so worried bout it?

I especially enjoy how you act like you haven't made a single mistake in this game, despite the fact that you made your case against Susa so loud that it superceded a lot of what could have been useful discussion D1.

If I recall correctly, it was the first 6 hours of the game, followed by me making the case again because CK asked for it. The game stalled with players such as -Hilt- and Chaco/Virg needing to be replaced. The game picked up when You/Kevin replaced in. Plenty of useful D1 discussion did happen, however players like Vyse/BK/Tom/etc... making minimal contribution really slowed things down.

(I predict a "Well if you were paying attention plenty of other stuff happened and you're just not as good as me for following it.")

Predicting my responses? Someone's bitter all of a sudden.

Air was clearly an invaluable asset to this town with his refusal to even look at any other players besides Kat, and your are scum for voting for him.

I don't think I was asking much. All I wanted was for air to look at anyone else. Even when he would mention someone else in passing (I think I remember something about BK at around the time that everyone voted BK), he would still end with "But I still think Kat is scum lol."

And you made sure to bring up you still were fine lynching Air before the wagon started. #441 "But I still want to lynch Air, lol" I don't think that is scummy. But I do think you faulting Air for it and doing it yourself is.

So Air mentioning other possibilities, but still staying firm in his opinion wasn't good enough? #415 #435 #480 #510 #523 #543 #556 Looking at Air's posts again, he does mention suspicions other players, even if slightly and even if the reasoning is bad. Kat remained his #1, and he stuck to it. That's all I see.

Go ahead and fault me for a mislynch. But please, don't pretend like you had anything to do with my recent post, that I promised I would put up anyway. Yes, air was town, but as far as mislynches go, I still say it wasn't much of a loss for us.

Why are you preoccupied with this credit issue enough to bring it up again?

I still can't discern your specific reason for voting me (unless it really was for pressure). You mock me and say "Air's lynch isn't my fault!", implying that you think air's lynch is my fault. Fine, I started it. But if you'll remember, I'm the only person who didn't want air to claim. I tried to give him a break. I said that if he could adequately defend himself, he wouldn't have had to claim. And how could have adequately defended himself (for me)? By giving us something to read on anyone else in the game. Not just a sentence in passing, but something real. He absolutely refused to do that. Towards the end I figured he might be town, and I tried to give him an out, but he was not going to be useful at all, and the only other viable lynch at the time was BK simply for doing what they later forced air to do, so I chose to stick with air.

BK has essentially given no concrete opinion on anyone, and merely had 1 sentence things said in passing when prodded to do so. Air's play was identical except he stuck his neck out and voiced an opinion on a player and stuck to it.

How strong was your feeling that Air might have been town? #513 Where did your severe doubts go? You didn't do much to scumhunt, and instead were focused on eliminating people who were doing 'anti-town things'. #479

Regardless, I'd love to hear why you think Vyse is town specifically. You dodged that question.
----

Thanks for the post Vyse, much appreciated!

----
unvote: vote: Tom L-2 for #522

 

[Crimson King]

I want to go more thoroughly into the posts above, but let me respond to these two first:

@CK: You know as well as I that everyone on the air wagon needs to be grilled, so before people forget to ask, how do you justify your position on the wagon?

I stated this already a few times. Air was shooting with no direction, wasn't really giving us MUCH to use for an alternative, and wasn't really helping town. Since he wasn't helping town, he had to be helping the anti-town, so as a matter of semantics, he was put to death. It's cruel and cold, but it's the facts. He wasn't helping us get to anyone any faster alive, and he never really offered anything of use to us. It was the same reason I was so gung-ho about the BK lynch. At the time, BK was just as useless in terms of direction and adding to discussion. When he pressured Chibo to claim, that was enough for me to jump on him. At Tom's request I backed off, and as the day was winding down, I felt more confident with getting rid of Air, than getting rid of BK.

@Marc: While the reason SHOULD be obvious to close readers, I'd rather not explain my different play style until Day 3. I can, if pressured, and the explanation is quite simple, but I really would find it more beneficial to wait until Day 3. Again, if this isn't satisfactory, I can explain today, but I fully expect to die tonight when I do.

 

[CT Chia]

seriously, theses walls of text are killing me

 

[McFox]

k, I didn't force you. why you so worried bout it?

That depends. Why are you so GD smarmy about it? I'm not worried, it just irritates me.

And you made sure to bring up you still were fine lynching Air before the wagon started. #441 "But I still want to lynch Air, lol"

Actually, that post is exactly what I was talking about with me trying to pressure air. I was hoping that by continuing to post like that with no content and just keep saying "We should lynch air" (I call it the KevinM method), he'd be pushed to actually contribute something meaningful.

I don't think that is scummy. But I do think you faulting Air for it and doing it yourself is.

I can't seem to follow this.

BK has essentially given no concrete opinion on anyone, and merely had 1 sentence things said in passing when prodded to do so. Air's play was identical except he stuck his neck out and voiced an opinion on a player and stuck to it.

Wrong. They were not identical. "BK has essentially given no concrete opinion on anyone" is exactly the opposite of what air did, where he had one "concrete" opinion and stuck to it. However, since air did make a case, I was able to break it down, which I did more than once.

How strong was your feeling that Air might have been town? #513 Where did your severe doubts go? You didn't do much to scumhunt, and instead were focused on eliminating people who were doing 'anti-town things'. #479

By 513, I was having doubts that he was scum. That was me, once again, posting in order to try and prod him into posting something useful. I thought maybe with the extra votes on him, it might push him over the edge. But nope, he continued to say exactly what he had been for the whole day.

Regardless, I'd love to hear why you think Vyse is town specifically. You dodged that question.

Again, very cute. In order to be concrete enough for you, I'll have to go back and quote specific examples, so here we gooo...

How about post 520. (I know, that's the post you called him out on for being scummy in! Controversy.) That post mirrored my own thoughts on the situation pretty well. That post says to me that Vyse actually thinks air is town by that point, and wants to try and motivate air into contributing. The hour time limit is a bit much, but the rest of the post says to me that Vyse thinks air is town, but if he's absolutely not going to contribute, then it would be okay if he got lynched.

Then there's 481, where he brings even more stuff to the table re: Kat's innocence, and even goes so far as to go back to Grammy's Mafia and find some choice quotes to prove his point. That shows a little more dedication than I would expect from a mafioso.

Air, if you're going to continue with that line of reasoning, please provide evidence of similarity in posting style because I don't buy it.

That's from 481, at which the only other person voting for air was CK. This shows a dedication to making air actually think about his "case" objectively, and trying to show him from a different angle that he was wrong.

Additionally, post 514 comes from a very similar place of "air you need to defend yourself or you won't be an asset to town.

 

[KevinM]

seriously, theses walls of text are killing me

THEN DON'T ****ING PLAY.

Seriously, stop posting with no substance, there is no point.

 

[Marc]

@Marc: While the reason SHOULD be obvious to close readers, I'd rather not explain my different play style until Day 3. I can, if pressured, and the explanation is quite simple, but I really would find it more beneficial to wait until Day 3. Again, if this isn't satisfactory, I can explain today, but I fully expect to die tonight when I do.

You just said you have something worth killing you for. o_O How would it be beneficial to wait now? What if you die toNight?

 

[Crimson King]

THEN DON'T ****ING PLAY.

Seriously, stop posting with no substance, there is no point.

This, this, and this. This mindset is one of the reasons why I quit playing in the Broom (the "too much reading sucks!" mindset). I'd rather go through 3 walls of text from 3 people than go through 7 or 8 posts from those same three people. Read the walls, comment, and participate.

 

[Vyse]

Since Tom’s pretty popular right now, let’s look at some posts of his.
Reading through Tom’s previous plays, he’s been fairly inconsistent.

Former. If I weren't voting Chibo, I would be voting Xiivi.

So if not Chibo, you’d want to vote Xiivi.
K.

It might sound hypocritial of me to say that I don't want a No Lynch when I've been so inactive, but too bad, I can't seem to find my groove this game, but I will get into it sooner or later.

I'm giving up the case on Chibo. He is obviously the double-voter, and that makes him 99.99% not mafia. He could be indy and that has been my sentiment but **** that **** why does that even matter. I have been stagnating on that because I was frustrated because I thought he was scum and he turned out to be town with a damn good claim. So I was frustrated that he looked so scummy but wasn't scum at all. So I settled on wanting him to be independent. No, that shouldn't have been my decision. I don't want to lynch Chibo, and shouldn't want to, as he is not mafia.

CK set a nice tall glass of merlot in front of me but I'm not even going to touch that. CK has been fine so far and I think he just made a poor decision.

I'm glad Omni replaced in for SuSa and I don't want you to replace out because of inactivity because that will make me personally feel really bad. So please don't.

vote: Airgemini

largely to avoid a No Lynch but also because I believe he is the prospect on the possible-lynch table who is most likely mafia and not just some simple easy-to-get lynch. I also agree with basically everything KevinM has done all Day.

@McFox: I'm glad to see you join the game and I agree with some of what you said, but I do not agree with your final position on Airgemini. Taking into consideration his performance in the last 2 LoD games, I see this game as an improvement in pattern recognition and he is completely willing to post his opinions, without regard to other players' opinions. This is a severely good thing, and Airgemini is low on my lynch list. He is improving. You may find fault with his case on Kataefi, but he actually has a case running and opinions on record. That's important to keep around.

I'm really not ready to commit to a Bowser King lynch. I feel like this is a knee-jerk reaction to the ChiboSempai claim and I would actually really appreciate it if all of you backed the **** off of Bowser King and gave him some room to breathe.

So after unvoting Chibo despite doubting his alignment and despite saying earlier that you’d vote for Xiivi if not Chibo (granted it was 200 posts ago) you chose to vote for airgemini even after defending his posts.

But your reasoning was that you wanted to end the day soon to prevent a no-lynch, so you didn’t vote Xiivi and voted on a current wagon instead. That’s fine, so did the rest of us. But the thing is, at that point there was 2 votes for BK and 2 for airgemini.

What I’d like to know is why you decided to vote for air instead of BK. You defended both of these players, but chose air when BK already had a stain against his name and until that point you saw air’s play style as a good thing.

Tom, what have you done this whole game? All I see are criticisms of Xiivi leading to ‘He might be scum, but I’m not sure so I won’t vote him’, and you just defending yourself. Please prove me wrong.

I won’t place a vote on you yet since you’re at L-2 (so sayeth Xiivi) and I’m not sure what the vote count is right now (being wary of Chibo’s doublevote). Also last time I did that I was criticized for doing that before giving said votee a chance to defend themself. Could we get a vote count please? I feel this should happen every time a hidden vote is cast?

Also BK, you seem to be coasting waaaaaay too much, and the only time you’ve done anything worth noting was anti-town (though I still think it was just a nooby mistake). I'm going to dredge up your older posts too, but I doubt I'll find anything worth noting outside of you defending yourself during the Chibo fiasco and answering questions posed by Tom.

Finally;
@CK: Cool, but no response on my read of you?
And what of your opinion of Tom? Because you don't seem to have one.

 

[KevinM]

Agree on the vote count every time the hidden vote is cast.

 

[Crimson King]

Vyse: Give me to the end of the day, and I should reply to all walls of text.

On Tom: I never really had any negative vibes on him as I had with others, but seeing as I've been wrong, I'll re-evaluate him.

 

[Bowser King]

Actually, that post is exactly what I was talking about with me trying to pressure air. I was hoping that by continuing to post like that with no content and just keep saying "We should lynch air" (I call it the KevinM method), he'd be pushed to actually contribute something meaningful.

By 513, I was having doubts that he was scum. That was me, once again, posting in order to try and prod him into posting something useful. I thought maybe with the extra votes on him, it might push him over the edge. But nope, he continued to say exactly what he had been for the whole day.

Why would you continue to push nothing on hi when you had doubts?
Wouldn't it be better at a time like that to figure out if he is mafia or not?
Also, if you were trying to get something meaningful out of him then why would you pressure with something like "We should lynch air"? It seems highly unlikely that someone would be able to post anything meaningful from that.

Vyse, since you've made an argument against just about everyone on the air lynch, I was wondering who you were most suspicious of at this point. From your "I won't vote you.." it seems like Tom but just wanted to be clear about it.

 

[McFox]

I wasn't convinced that air would actually be helpful to town, no matter which way he flipped. And pushing on someone with no content is to inspire them to post something meaningful. For further reading on the subject, look at D1 on any game KevinM has ever played. Also look for games featuring Marshy.

 

[KevinM]

Since when have I ever pushed on someone with no content, don't water my game down to make your predicament seem simpler.

 

[Xiivi]

Let's all just lynch that "top of the activity notice" Tom guy.

Yo Kev, since you've been voting the same person all day, any comments about his current posts or are you just going to lurk and only pop in to lecture others, avoid questions, contradict yourself, be defensive, and swing onto a mislynch at the end of the day nonchalantly?

FoS: Kevin

Hey, BK/Marc, can you both give some explanations for why you were reluctant to hammer Air when you both had chances to?

Chibo, since I assume you still have 2 votes on that "top of the activity notice" Tom, are you comfortable with a lynch going through that would only have 4 players on the wagon?

Hi CK. Nice to know you're still set on flaunting this supposed PR you've got after we all decided to ignore your drunk post.

 

[Bowser King]

I wasn't convinced that air would actually be helpful to town, no matter which way he flipped. And pushing on someone with no content is to inspire them to post something meaningful. For further reading on the subject, look at D1 on any game KevinM has ever played. Also look for games featuring Marshy.

Since when does voting someone with no content up to the lynch inspire anything? I'll go look up some games of Marshy anyway.

Hey, BK/Marc, can you both give some explanations for why you were reluctant to hammer Air when you both had chances to?

I saw the reasoning behind what most had said, but I didn't feel strongly about the lynch at all. The deadline was going down and at the time I didn't have much suspicions on anyone. I didn't want to vote for someone that I didn't feel was scum so I didn't. I was also hoping for air to possibly say something but he gave up which didn't remind me of the mafia air from grammys at all (granted, in grammys air had someone else at a possible lynch point which might be the reason why).

 

[#HBC | marshy]

19th Vote Count

----------

McFox (1) - KevinM
Tom (2) - ChiboSempai, Xiivi
Not voting (6): McFox, Vyse, bowser king, Marc, Tom, Crimson King

----------

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

 

[Marc]

I didn't hammer air because more time can be useful. In fact, hammering someone when there's still time can be considered downright scummy play.

 

[McFox]

vote Scumfever

I like it.

I'm down for a Gheb train

FULL SPEED AHEAD!

Unvote Mentos
Vote Gheb_Scum

Vote Omni

Easy vote.

Tom just bandwagon Aruun and get this day over with.

Unvote
Vote: Cashed

Hiya pal

Should I go on? Those are all from different games.

 

[Xiivi]

Chibo, why was Tom worth 2 of your votes yesterday, but not 2 of your votes today when you said you were going with your suspicions from Day 1 and even attempted to build on them a little?

 

[CT Chia]

Tom has hardly even been on SWF, and hasn't been in his other mafia games. I don't want to put him that close to being lynched without him even being here.

I'm going to read the past page soonish.

 

[Vyse]

Vyse, since you've made an argument against just about everyone on the air lynch, I was wondering who you were most suspicious of at this point. From your "I won't vote you.." it seems like Tom but just wanted to be clear about it.

Well right now I've only really addressed CK and Tom and to a lesser extent Chibo with my analysis'. What I've pointed out are inconsistencies in their play/voting strategies. But to actually answer your question, Tom and CK hold my suspicions at the moment.

I said I'd hold off voting Tom because of Chibomon and because I wanted to see his response first, and the same goes for CK really.

Another thing.

Something I didn't address before, instead of trying to draw conclusions from the air and Kata's deaths, CK said we should just ignore because aparently it was a bad decision and it was an attempt to paint him specifically in a bad light (even though McFox was the one to begin that wagon) AND that Tom endorsed that mentality of letting it alone.

See:

]On Kata: Kata is a ****ed up night kill, and I really think it was a bad choice by the Mafia. Kata questioned me a few times, voted for me, but no one really took him trend (this was after Kevin's run), so I see a huge possibility of painting me a bad light. It's a bit of a waste to investigate why the mafia did kill someone at night, but it's worth noting they didn't get any of the louder people.

CK then goes on to say he no longer really has a list of suspicious players and has instead been pushing a Marc lynch because he's not really active enough/playing the way we want him to.

 

[Tom]

hi, everyone. =/

i disappeared for a bit and actually got lynched while i was away in one of my other games. which is pretty sad. ive never been lynched before on swf and they offed me while i wasn't even present. s'kinda depressing. but that game is different and i shouldnt bring it up. sorry.

im here and im going to try to respond to your questions. i have to catch up since my last post.

 

[Tom]

@vyse, per your 658: since you challenged me to summarize my play, i will. day 1, initially i found xiivi to be the most suspicious, but i thought that it was unfortunate for the focus of play to be so early on susomni+xiivi. i saw an improvement in airgemini's logical capabilities after he had completed games as both town and scum and i was sort of proud of that. xiivi was my main suspicion but i was worried it might be just ghost-thoughts from previous games with mass multi-posters and that playstyle. KevinM then started a Chibo wagon and I decided to hop on that to pressure Chibo. His play has been ill-informed. When the Chibo wagon dissolved, people jumped on BK as a knee-jerk reaction and I tried my best to dissolve that completely and I think it can be attributed to me. I didn't like the look of that, at all. Then surprise it was deadline and I did not want a No Lynch. Chibo lynch was out of the question because he has been basically cleared by his second vote, and I thought my qualms with Xiivi would go away as he stopped multi-posting. I did not want a BK lynch, so I agreed to an Airgemini lynch. We had to lynch someone. Day 2, I've tried to continually get Bowser King to say his opinions and put them on record, and I think its helping. Chibo called me out on it like it was a bad thing for some reason in his 630,632, but I think I dismissed that fairly well in 634 because he completely dropped it and simply moved to McFox.

I think that is a fairly accurate summary.

Currently, the vote count is KevinM on Mcfox (1), and Chibo+Xiivi on me (2). That is sort of unfortunate, because if you look at basically what I've done all game, those 2 have been my primary suspects. I have some people I am almost completely sure are not scum, and then I've got a varying pool, but these two are constantly at the bottom. In my mind, Chibo is alive only because of his second vote, and if he didn't have that, he would be dead, if not because of other people, then because I would lead a lynch on him. Xiivi basically FOSes anyone for any reason and asks questions that I don't see going anywhere at all other than keeping him in the good, questions that just compound on what some people have done that might be slightly suspicious to constantly remind us all that they did those things, without any right answers that could alleviate those suspicions. If you who are reading this dont agree with that, call me out on it, because its what I see.

If I had to choose KevinM or McFox to keep, and that escalated into the lynch, I would keep Kevin. However I don't think it should become that.

I'm going to vote: Chibosempai.

 

[CT Chia]

Tom, why vote me if you said yourself that "he has been basically cleared by his second vote"

Why are you knowingly voting me when you know I'm a double voter?

I don't know about you but I think it's an awful idea for any "town" player to knowingly attempt to vote off one of the town power roles.

Just so people are aware, I'm adding my double vote to Tom now.

 

[Steel]

20th Vote Count

----------

McFox (1) - KevinM
Tom (3) - ChiboSempai, Xiivi
Not voting (6): McFox, Vyse, bowser king, Marc, Tom, Crimson King

----------

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

 

[Tom]

I've been wrasslin' with it in my head all game, and you know that, because I repeatedly mention it. There is a reason why you're an openly claimed double voter - because you were forced to claim at L-1, because you were scummy, and since then you are scummy and you continue to say things that tick people off, moi aussi.

Tom, why vote me if you said yourself that "he has been basically cleared by his second vote"

Why are you knowingly voting me when you know I'm a double voter?

I don't know about you but I think it's an awful idea for any "town" player to knowingly attempt to vote off one of the town power roles.

Just so people are aware, I'm adding my double vote to Tom now.

Bloobity blah blah bling blong. What I just said it about just as pertinent as what you just said. You were cleared by your second vote, but keeping it real, your second vote doesn't clear you. Your second vote makes you a scary thing to lose if you are town aligned. But it doesn't make you town aligned. We have just been ASSUMING that you are town aligned because you have a second hidden vote. But you continue to do stupid things and Im sorry but I don't think you are town anymore. I said that you are clear ONLY because of your second vote. I also said if it weren't because of your second vote, you would be garbage in the trash lynched and thrown out. It's what kept you alive, and frankly I'm done with that.

@Steel: Mr. Mod, sir, I added my vote to Chibo in my last post, but you did not count it. Have I been vote blocked :[

 

[Steel]

21st Vote Count

----------

McFox (1) - KevinM
Tom (3) - ChiboSempai, Xiivi
ChiboSempai (1) - Tom

Not voting (6): McFox, Vyse, bowser king, Marc, Tom, Crimson King

----------

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

my b tom i suck at this game

 

[Crimson King]

So, I've been having a bad few days. I've been too depressed to do much other than post in the Broom. I should get over it sooner or later, but if people want me out, I totally understand.

 

[Tom]

CK im in extremely similar mood as of late. im tryin to break out of it and in animu its working but in my other games im still kind of meh. but im in this one and i would like you in this one too, so take your time but im sure you can get interested soon. also, hope you feel better.

 

[McFox]

Guys I am going to be V/NA for the next few days. If I hadn't posted this here already, I'm moving to New York in January, so I'm trying to spend as much time with my RL friends as possible. They decided they wanted to go camping this weekend, and since none of us have work, we're starting a day early. I'll be back Sunday.